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How to stop the night wakings?



 
 
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  #1  
Old March 13th 08, 04:08 AM posted to misc.kids,misc.kids.pregnancy,misc.kids.breastfeeding
cjra
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Posts: 1,015
Default How to stop the night wakings?

On Mar 12, 5:25*pm, Sarah Vaughan wrote:
Thoughts:

1. Is it possible to get her to bed any earlier than you're already
doing? *If she's already really tired when she gets in, that may mean
that by the time she gets to sleep she's worked up enough that she's
more likely to wake in the night. *Sometimes an earlier bedtime can help..


We often don't get home til close to 6pm. By the time we're done
eating it's close to 7pm. Not much we can change there,
unfortunately.That's been the schedule for the past year, and for
awhile was fine. I think now it's problematic because she's getting so
little sleep at night. She wasn't acting tired (no rubbing eyes for
example, but after multiple 6pm meltdowns, I figured it was tiredness)

I have tried just putting her down as soon as we get home for a 'nap'
then feeding her afterwards, but it doesn't work. She has no interest
in that.

2. Will she take a pacifier rather than your nipple to suck on? *Helped
a great deal with my son.


hahahahaha!
No. No pacifier. I tried many times. I've even tried sneaking it in in
place of my nipple. She's too smart for that ;-) The look on her face
when you give her a pacifier is priceless.

3. Do you nurse her to sleep at bedtime?


Yes, although when I'm away (which doesn't happen often but lately has
been ~ 2-3x per month), DH puts her to bed.

*I agree with Beth that it may
be worth tackling this issue first and getting her to complete the final
steps of falling asleep without nursing (i.e. nurse her until nearly
asleep, unlatch, comfort her in other ways but stand firm on not
offering the breast again before she goes to sleep). *Spending a week or
two getting her used to going to sleep without nursing may well mean
that when you do tackle the night wakings you have more luck with them
because she's already used to getting to sleep without nursing. *(The
advantage of this is that you can work on her getting-to-sleep skills in
the evening rather than in the middle of the night when all you want to
do is to get back to sleep. *However, you may prefer just to get it all
over with in one go.) *If you do work on the bedtime falling-to-sleep
first, then at 4 a.m. just nurse her straight away or whatever you
normally do to get her to sleep - if she either gets nursed straight
away or has to go to sleep without nursing then she'll figure it out
pretty quickly, but if she sometimes has to go to sleep without nursing
but sometimes gets the breast if she cries long enough then that gives
her an incentive to keep crying for longer as she has reason to think it
might work (see 6 below).


I think we'll go this route for awhile. I am concerned about her lack
of food - nights when she doesn't eat much I always worry she'll wake
because she's starving, so think that nursing her will help that, but
it doesn't....

4. If she's waking at a specific time each night, there is a technique
you can use called the wake-to-sleep technique or scheduled awakening.
Basically, you set your alarm, go into your room between 15 and 60
minutes before the time when you expect her to wake (so, between 3 and
3.45 a.m), wake her partway up, and settle her again. *This can readjust
the sleep cycle and thus eliminate the habitual waking. *Tracy Hogg
gives the most complete description of this that I've got in 'The Baby
Whisperer Solves All Your Problems', and advises that if the child is
still waking up at the usual time after three nights of trying this, you
might as well drop it, but if they seem to be stopping their usual
waking then continue with the scheduled awakening for six nights before
stopping. *This has been found to be as effective as CIO techniques, but
it's a pain to implement.


Well, she's in 'our' room - although I've been sleeping in another
room lately. She's in bed with DH. I still wake up automatically about
3:45 knowing she'll wake up (I do this even when I'm away, it's so
annoying!). I guess i'd be afraid to try this...the idea is to wake
her a bit before she really wakes up?

For so long I always got to her immediately on the first peep and
could usually settle her back down. But now I've avoided going to her
because she wants to nurse, and then she just nurses non-stop and
doesn't fall asleep. I think this would require my DH waking up before
her and doing it and I don't think he's up to the task, honestly. He
has taken over the night wakings for the most part (not that it helps
my sleep much, but the idea was it helped DD to sleep), but I don't
think I could convince him to wake up before her.


5. If you do use CIO, bear in mind that just because you won't *nurse*
her doesn't mean that you can't comfort her in other ways while she gets
used to going to sleep without nursing. *Thus, it may help to stay with
her and cuddle her until she falls asleep.


I've tried doing this a lot - just rocking her or cuddling rather than
nursing. It usually calms her and that's when I'm sure she's not
waking for hunger. Other times she goes straight for the boobs and
nothing will distract her. Problem has been though that though it
calms her, it doesn't put her to sleep.

6. Don't try this unless you're prepared to see it through. *The pattern
of letting her cry for 30 minutes and then nursing her just makes it
harder for you next time, because now she knows that if she holds out
for long enough she'll get nursed. *When I tried eliminating nursing to
sleep for my son's bedtime, I read that it can take over an hour in some
cases, so I braced myself for it to take that long. *In the end, it took
47 minutes the first night and was much easier thereafter. *Keep a note
of how long it takes each time, so that you can see improvement happening.


Yeah, that's why we haven't really tried it yet...earlier on my DH was
more keen to try it and I wasn't. Now I'm ready and he says it's
cruel...that said I have let her CIO a few times for sleeping (when DH
wasn't home), if she just refused to fall asleep after an hour or more
of me with her. One time it took an hour, but the few other times it
was only a few minutes. We haven't done it consistently though -
hadn't really needed to for bedtime.

We tried once for the 4am wakeup and gave in.

Thanks for the suggestions, it gives me something to work with. I know
I'm supposed to accept all this and be grateful she still wants to be
with me, but one can only function on little sleep for so long....
  #2  
Old March 13th 08, 09:48 AM posted to misc.kids,misc.kids.pregnancy,misc.kids.breastfeeding
lu-lu
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Posts: 113
Default How to stop the night wakings?


"cjra" wrote in message
...

4. If she's waking at a specific time each night, there is a technique
you can use called the wake-to-sleep technique or scheduled awakening.
Basically, you set your alarm, go into your room between 15 and 60
minutes before the time when you expect her to wake (so, between 3 and
3.45 a.m), wake her partway up, and settle her again. This can readjust
the sleep cycle and thus eliminate the habitual waking. Tracy Hogg
gives the most complete description of this that I've got in 'The Baby
Whisperer Solves All Your Problems', and advises that if the child is
still waking up at the usual time after three nights of trying this, you
might as well drop it, but if they seem to be stopping their usual
waking then continue with the scheduled awakening for six nights before
stopping. This has been found to be as effective as CIO techniques, but
it's a pain to implement.


Well, she's in 'our' room - although I've been sleeping in another
room lately. She's in bed with DH. I still wake up automatically about
3:45 knowing she'll wake up (I do this even when I'm away, it's so
annoying!). I guess i'd be afraid to try this...the idea is to wake
her a bit before she really wakes up?

Hi Cjra

I did this with Jessica. When she was 6 weeks, she used to go to sleep at
9pm, sleep til midnight, nurse and then sleep until 6am. I started going im
at about 23.50 and nursing her without waking her properly. That eliminated
the need for her to wake fully (as with you waking while you're away, it'll
have become part of her routine too) and she very quickly learnt to sleep
through. I don't know how it will work for an older child, as Jessie was
still at the newborn 'I can sleep and eat at the same time' stage, but I
think it's worth trying. I think part of it is the surprise at being woken
when they're sleeping peacefully and the gratitude of being allowed back to
sleep!

In regards to the 6pm meltdowns, it kinda sounds like Jessica when it all
gets too much for her. You might find she's tired *and* hungry, and
therefore unhappy too. If dinner's going to be later than madam would like,
I give her something little in the car like a roll or some fruit. It
occupies her while she's waiting, takes the edge off her hunger and gives
her a little energy boost.

How much does she sleep duing the day? I tried cutting Jessie's naps out in
the day, but she just wasn't ready for that, and if she doesn't sleep at
all, she's pretty evil by 7pm. I try to get her to nap for about an hour
after lunch and then gently wake her up. If she's desperate to stay asleep,
I let her have an another half an hour or so. Her bed time hasn't changed
since she was born, and she's always grateful to go to bed when we take her,
and impatient if the milk/pyjamas etc aren't ready!

Not saying it's perfect, but here's her routine. I'm not advising you have
to follow it or anything, but it's here just to give an outline of her day.

7.30 Up. Breakfast (2 x Toast, sometimes cereal too). That takes about half
an hour or so, longer if she's trying to run off to play with the animals.
Then washing/teeth/dressing etc.
10.00 Snack, Ususally an apple or something.
12.30 Cooked lunch. I normally try to give her something like stew and
mashed potato as it fills her up and makes her sleepy.
1.30-2.30/3pm Sleep.
4pm. Small snack, raisins or a roll
7pm Cooked Dinner
8-9pm Bedtime routine, Bath, pyjamas and nappy, saying goodnight to all the
animals and me (Note they come first lol) bedtime CD on and she switches the
light off herself. She has no nightlights on at all, neither during her milk
nor overnight. DH cuddles her while she has her milk and puts her in her cot
when she's asleep..

Heh... It looks like we just sleep and eat here!! She does munch a lot
during the day, but the snacks are little, and I normally keep packets of
raisins in my handbag so that she can have them while we're out. If she's
hungry, her energy levels drop, and we get (extra) tantrums All I need to
do now is to get her to stop screaming when I put reins on her!

Sorry for the long post, Cjra, it was only going to be a quick one! Hope you
get some sleep soon hun.

Lucy x


  #3  
Old March 13th 08, 01:13 PM posted to misc.kids,misc.kids.pregnancy,misc.kids.breastfeeding
Ericka Kammerer
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Posts: 2,293
Default How to stop the night wakings?

cjra wrote:

I've tried doing this a lot - just rocking her or cuddling rather than
nursing. It usually calms her and that's when I'm sure she's not
waking for hunger. Other times she goes straight for the boobs and
nothing will distract her. Problem has been though that though it
calms her, it doesn't put her to sleep.


It can be multiple reasons for waking at night--sometimes
habitual, sometimes hunger, sometimes something else, sometimes
two or more of the above. I know you can't force feed during the
day, but sometimes you can gently encourage more food by feeding
more often. What's the schedule at daycare? Can they introduce
more food there?
Also, for the comforting at night, you may not be able
to go as far as rocking and cuddling. You may need to keep her
in the crib and limit it to patting her back and such. Getting
her up may be enough to reorient her to playtime/cuddle time
rather than to sleep time.

Best wishes,
Ericka
  #4  
Old March 13th 08, 06:27 PM posted to misc.kids,misc.kids.pregnancy,misc.kids.breastfeeding
cjra
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,015
Default How to stop the night wakings?

On Mar 13, 3:48 am, "lu-lu" wrote:
"cjra" wrote in message

...

4. If she's waking at a specific time each night, there is a technique
you can use called the wake-to-sleep technique or scheduled awakening.
Basically, you set your alarm, go into your room between 15 and 60
minutes before the time when you expect her to wake (so, between 3 and
3.45 a.m), wake her partway up, and settle her again. This can readjust
the sleep cycle and thus eliminate the habitual waking. Tracy Hogg
gives the most complete description of this that I've got in 'The Baby
Whisperer Solves All Your Problems', and advises that if the child is
still waking up at the usual time after three nights of trying this, you
might as well drop it, but if they seem to be stopping their usual
waking then continue with the scheduled awakening for six nights before
stopping. This has been found to be as effective as CIO techniques, but
it's a pain to implement.


Well, she's in 'our' room - although I've been sleeping in another
room lately. She's in bed with DH. I still wake up automatically about
3:45 knowing she'll wake up (I do this even when I'm away, it's so
annoying!). I guess i'd be afraid to try this...the idea is to wake
her a bit before she really wakes up?

Hi Cjra

I did this with Jessica. When she was 6 weeks, she used to go to sleep at
9pm, sleep til midnight, nurse and then sleep until 6am. I started going im
at about 23.50 and nursing her without waking her properly. That eliminated
the need for her to wake fully (as with you waking while you're away, it'll
have become part of her routine too) and she very quickly learnt to sleep
through. I don't know how it will work for an older child, as Jessie was
still at the newborn 'I can sleep and eat at the same time' stage, but I
think it's worth trying. I think part of it is the surprise at being woken
when they're sleeping peacefully and the gratitude of being allowed back to
sleep!


Aha! You mean the "Dream Feed"? Yes, I used to do that about 10pm in
the first 4 months or so. Then she started waking up like clockwork at
10pm and I was convinced it was because I got her used to eating at
that time and swore never to do that again. I finally broke her of
that habit. I honestly am not willing to try that one again at this
age, I fear she'll get so used to it she'll be hungry at that hour. I
don't think it's hunger waking her but habit.

In regards to the 6pm meltdowns, it kinda sounds like Jessica when it all
gets too much for her. You might find she's tired *and* hungry, and
therefore unhappy too. If dinner's going to be later than madam would like,
I give her something little in the car like a roll or some fruit. It
occupies her while she's waiting, takes the edge off her hunger and gives
her a little energy boost.


I think the problem is that she's not hungry. For a long time DH would
give her a snack in the car on the way home, then she wouldn't eat at
all. As it is it seems 6pm is sometimes too early for her to eat (but
on the odd nights she's up much later, she's all happy to eat at 8pm -
I think she's a European baby with these late dinners ;-)).

She gets offered food now as soon as we walk in the door and she's not
interested.

How much does she sleep duing the day? I tried cutting Jessie's naps out in
the day, but she just wasn't ready for that, and if she doesn't sleep at
all, she's pretty evil by 7pm. I try to get her to nap for about an hour
after lunch and then gently wake her up. If she's desperate to stay asleep,
I let her have an another half an hour or so. Her bed time hasn't changed
since she was born, and she's always grateful to go to bed when we take her,
and impatient if the milk/pyjamas etc aren't ready!


At daycare she sleeps ~1.5 hours. She stopped a morning nap at about 9
months as she wouldn't sleep when the older kids were up. I've told
the babysitter to let her sleep as long as she needs, but she's
usually ready to get up when the other kids do.


Heh... It looks like we just sleep and eat here!! She does munch a lot
during the day, but the snacks are little, and I normally keep packets of
raisins in my handbag so that she can have them while we're out. If she's
hungry, her energy levels drop, and we get (extra) tantrums All I need to
do now is to get her to stop screaming when I put reins on her!


There are some weekends it seems that's all we *try* to do and not
succeed. She began throwing tantrums recently with the high chair,
refusing to sit in it (I think the time out at daycare was in a high
chair and since then, at least at home, she sees it as a torture
chamber...). However we've let her scream and now she only resists for
a minute, down from 30 minutes.
  #5  
Old March 13th 08, 07:54 PM posted to misc.kids,misc.kids.pregnancy,misc.kids.breastfeeding
lu-lu
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 113
Default How to stop the night wakings?


"cjra" wrote in message
...
On Mar 13, 3:48 am, "lu-lu" wrote:

Heh... It looks like we just sleep and eat here!! She does munch a lot
during the day, but the snacks are little, and I normally keep packets

of
raisins in my handbag so that she can have them while we're out. If

she's
hungry, her energy levels drop, and we get (extra) tantrums All I

need to
do now is to get her to stop screaming when I put reins on her!


There are some weekends it seems that's all we *try* to do and not
succeed. She began throwing tantrums recently with the high chair,
refusing to sit in it (I think the time out at daycare was in a high
chair and since then, at least at home, she sees it as a torture
chamber...). However we've let her scream and now she only resists for
a minute, down from 30 minutes.


I don't know if your DD's up for a change, but I recently bought Jessica
alittle table and chair. I guess you guys have the same thing over there -
it's one of the plastic ones that looks like mini garden furniture. She's a
real girlie-girl, so I found one in pink and she loves it. I make sure she
sits when she eats anything at all, and so even when I make her toast in the
mornings, she gets the plate, runs to her "big girl" table and sits really
nicely. I bought her some little cutlery too, and she's doing really well
with it now. Like A, she was really screaming with the high chair, but she's
finding eating at her table her real pleasure. We've been doing that for a
couple of months now.

Hope this helps

Lucy x


  #6  
Old March 13th 08, 08:13 PM posted to misc.kids,misc.kids.pregnancy,misc.kids.breastfeeding
cjra
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,015
Default How to stop the night wakings?

On Mar 13, 1:54 pm, "lu-lu" wrote:
"cjra" wrote in message

...



On Mar 13, 3:48 am, "lu-lu" wrote:


Heh... It looks like we just sleep and eat here!! She does munch a lot
during the day, but the snacks are little, and I normally keep packets

of
raisins in my handbag so that she can have them while we're out. If

she's
hungry, her energy levels drop, and we get (extra) tantrums All I

need to
do now is to get her to stop screaming when I put reins on her!


There are some weekends it seems that's all we *try* to do and not
succeed. She began throwing tantrums recently with the high chair,
refusing to sit in it (I think the time out at daycare was in a high
chair and since then, at least at home, she sees it as a torture
chamber...). However we've let her scream and now she only resists for
a minute, down from 30 minutes.


I don't know if your DD's up for a change, but I recently bought Jessica
alittle table and chair. I guess you guys have the same thing over there -
it's one of the plastic ones that looks like mini garden furniture. She's a
real girlie-girl, so I found one in pink and she loves it. I make sure she
sits when she eats anything at all, and so even when I make her toast in the
mornings, she gets the plate, runs to her "big girl" table and sits really
nicely. I bought her some little cutlery too, and she's doing really well
with it now. Like A, she was really screaming with the high chair, but she's
finding eating at her table her real pleasure. We've been doing that for a
couple of months now.


Hmmm, she does have a little chair, and she has plenty of cutlery
(although she always wants the big stuff), but no table. I'm not sure
she'd like it because she's not on the same level as us.
She was fine with the high chair until about 6 weeks ago. But she's
starting to calm down about it. Yoghurt is her favourite and she's
learning she doesn't get it unless she's seated in the high chair. I
don't like using food as a weapon though, but she's accepted it for
the most part.
  #7  
Old March 14th 08, 03:18 AM posted to misc.kids,misc.kids.pregnancy,misc.kids.breastfeeding
Nikki
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 486
Default How to stop the night wakings?


"lu-lu" wrote in message
...

I don't know if your DD's up for a change, but I recently bought Jessica
alittle table and chair. I guess you guys have the same thing over there -
it's one of the plastic ones that looks like mini garden furniture. She's
a
real girlie-girl, so I found one in pink and she loves it.


My boys use the little tables as jungle gyms mainly but Ben was always mad
at his highchair. They have been at boosters at the regular table for
some time now. She's at an age to try that out if the she decides she is
anti-highchair again.


--
Nikki, mama to
Hunter 4/99
Luke 4/01
Brock 4/06
Ben 4/06


  #8  
Old March 14th 08, 11:49 AM posted to misc.kids,misc.kids.pregnancy,misc.kids.breastfeeding
lu-lu
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 113
Default How to stop the night wakings?


"Nikki" wrote in message
...

"lu-lu" wrote in message
...

I don't know if your DD's up for a change, but I recently bought Jessica
alittle table and chair. I guess you guys have the same thing over

there -
it's one of the plastic ones that looks like mini garden furniture.

She's
a
real girlie-girl, so I found one in pink and she loves it.


My boys use the little tables as jungle gyms mainly but Ben was always mad
at his highchair. They have been at boosters at the regular table for
some time now. She's at an age to try that out if the she decides she is
anti-highchair again.


Yeah, that was the other thing I was going to suggest - Jessie has one of
these so that she can eat with us, and she loves it.

Lucy x


  #9  
Old March 15th 08, 06:06 PM posted to misc.kids,misc.kids.pregnancy,misc.kids.breastfeeding
Sarah Vaughan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 443
Default How to stop the night wakings?

Ericka Kammerer wrote:

Also, for the comforting at night, you may not be able
to go as far as rocking and cuddling. You may need to keep her
in the crib and limit it to patting her back and such. Getting
her up may be enough to reorient her to playtime/cuddle time
rather than to sleep time.


Sorry, I probably didn't read the initial post carefully enough - I was
picturing a situation where they were still bedsharing. I agree that if
she's in the crib, the best thing to do would be just to talk/pat
reassuringly and lower her down to the mattress every time she tries to
stand up.


All the best,

Sarah
--
http://www.goodenoughmummy.typepad.com

"That which can be destroyed by the truth, should be" - P. C. Hodgell

  #10  
Old March 15th 08, 06:14 PM posted to misc.kids,misc.kids.pregnancy,misc.kids.breastfeeding
Sarah Vaughan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 443
Default How to stop the night wakings?

cjra wrote:

[...]
I am concerned about her lack
of food - nights when she doesn't eat much I always worry she'll wake
because she's starving, so think that nursing her will help that, but
it doesn't....


When I night-weaned Jamie, I gave him a bottle of milk instead so that I
could feel comfortable that I *wasn't* leaving him hungry by refusing to
nurse. As it turned out he was hardly taking any, which confirmed what
I'd felt to be the case, but it was good to know that for certain. If
it had turned out that he was taking a lot, I'd have done the old trick
of diluting it down on successive nights.

[...]
Yeah, that's why we haven't really tried it yet...earlier on my DH was
more keen to try it and I wasn't. Now I'm ready and he says it's
cruel...


I hope he's on the same page as you about it now. I agree totally with
what Ericka said about this.

You're not leaving her hungry or in pain or frightened. You're willing
to stay right there with her, comforting her (as Ericka said, you may
find out that approach just maddens her more, but the offer's there as
far as you're concerned...). The only reason she will be crying will be
because she wants something (long-drawn-out middle-of-the-night nursing)
which you are, for very good reasons, not prepared to give her.
Refusing to put yourself waaaaaay out to give a child everything she
wants is not the same thing as being cruel, and your DH is going to have
to get clear on that difference some time between now and "But all the
other kids' parents let them borrow the car and you're so MEEEEEAAAAAAN
to me!"

Thanks for the suggestions, it gives me something to work with. I know
I'm supposed to accept all this and be grateful she still wants to be
with me, but one can only function on little sleep for so long....


As far as I'm concerned, the only 'supposed to's in parenting are that
you're supposed to find ways of doing things which work well for your
family as a whole. Since the way you are currently doing things does
not fit that criterion, you're doing the right thing by trying to find
another way.

Good luck!


All the best,

Sarah
--
http://www.goodenoughmummy.typepad.com

"That which can be destroyed by the truth, should be" - P. C. Hodgell

 




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