Kids playing in the streets

"shinypenny" wrote in message
oups.com...

Claire Petersky wrote:
The most common car/bike accident happens when a motorist backs out
of the
driveway, and hits the bicyclist.

There have been numerous times my DF almost got killed because a
motorist parked on the street opened the door without looking first.
The thought terrifies me that someday he won't be able to brake his
bike in time. A bicycle helmet is fairly useless to protect against a
full body slam into a car door. :-(

Although a full body slam can result in serious injuries (like when the a
child slides into the end of a handle bar after the bike is stopped by an
open door), I would think that such injuries are relatively rare and much
easier to survive than a head injury. i guess it is useful to teach kids to
stay away from doors just after they are parked and to stay in the middle of
the street where they are more easily seen.

jen

"Nick Theodorakis" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 14:22:24 EST, wrote:


[...]


It depends, I think, on the street. If you live in a busy urban kind of
setting, playing on the streets is very risky. But the point of quiet
residential streets is that they are quiet and residential, and I think
it's a reasonable expectation that kids will play there.


Oddly enough, when we lived in an "urban" neighborhood the streets
were safer than in the suburban neighborhood we live in now. In our
old urban 'hood, the streets were laid out in a typical gridded
pattern with stop signs at most corners that tended to slow traffic
down. Although a car *could* cut through our street on the way
through, there was no particular advantage to use our street vs.
another as a short-cut, so through traffic generally got diluted out.
Moreover, pedestrians could easily see cars coming from several blocks
away, and they had multiple stop signs before arriving. Our suburban
neighborhood is laid out in a branched "alveolar" fashion with side
streets and cul-de-sacs feeding into one steet which carries all the
neighborhood traffic out to the road. Great if you live on one of the
cul-de-sacs, but on the main street, cars can get going pretty fast
before exiting the neighborhood.

What they do in some places is make it so that their are islands on the
streets close to the intersection or that there are other barriers, forcing
drivers to slow down as they go through the streets.

So, even though I wouldn't let my kids play in the street in front of
our house (although I would let them play on a cul-de-sac behind our
house) I would still nevertheless support a speed bump on our street
if someone should push for one.

When there are speed bumps, I try to go around them. A lot of times, there
is room on the side of them to make it over, or make over with only the
wheels on one side of the car hitting the bump. Of course, if you do that,
you have accomplished the goals of putting in the speed bump.

Jeff


Nick

--
Nick Theodorakis

contact form:
http://theodorakis.net/contact.html

bizby40 wrote:

Without the van, we won't
have room to take the dog with us.


I have a solution for that one. We bought a hitch and platform for the back
of my car. We then bought one of those kennel covers that go over the
kennel so that the dog stays comfy inside when it is cold.

Works like a charm and I could strap coolers or other things onto it if I
ever get the opportunity to take a vacation :-)

We got ours at the hardware store then had to pay for the whole U-Haul type
hitch and getting that installed under the car...and the stupid kennel cover
was $100. It added up but well worth it to get my car and I'm sure the
price saved on a car versus van in both purchase price and gas mileage was
enormous.

http://tinyurl.com/487oc


--
Nikki

On 2005-04-01, Jeff wrote:

"Sue" wrote in message
...
"Mandy Anderson" wrote in message
...
I'm furious with my neighbors who seem to think the streets in our
subdivision are for playing. Several women who have nothing better to do
petitioned the county to put speed bumps in to slow cars down, yet the
speed limit of 25 mph is still fast enough to kill or injure a child.

Our neighborhood has sidewalks that start and stop and most of the time,
the
kids are forced into the street to ride their bike. One thing I have
learned
in kindergarten that has stayed with me all my life, is that we must learn
to share and look out for one another. Too bad you haven't learned that.

They may be better off riding on the road all the time. Drivers are able to
see kids better when they are in the street than when they are on the
sidewalks. And kids can often see drivers better, because they may have a
better view, esp. if there are bushes or trees in the way.

The were studies done that show that kids who ride in the street are injured
less frequently, but, younger kids tend to ride on the sidewalks, so the
comparison is not all that good.


Indeed, sidewalk cycling is more dangerous than cycling on the right
side of the road with traffic.


One of the best studies on the subject is
"Risk Factors for Bicycle-Motor Vehicle Collisions at Intersections"
by Alan Wachtel and Diana Lewiston.

It is on-line at

http://www.bicyclinglife.com/Library/riskfactors.htm


------------------------------------------------------------
Kevin Karplus http://www.soe.ucsc.edu/~karplus
Professor of Biomolecular Engineering, University of California, Santa Cruz
Undergraduate and Graduate Director, Bioinformatics
(Senior member, IEEE) (Board of Directors, ISCB)
life member (LAB, Adventure Cycling, American Youth Hostels)
Effective Cycling Instructor #218-ck (lapsed)
Affiliations for identification only.

On Fri, 1 Apr 2005 12:14:58 EST, "shinypenny"
wrote:


Claire Petersky wrote:
The most common car/bike accident happens when a motorist backs out
of the
driveway, and hits the bicyclist.

There have been numerous times my DF almost got killed because a
motorist parked on the street opened the door without looking first.
The thought terrifies me that someday he won't be able to brake his
bike in time. A bicycle helmet is fairly useless to protect against a
full body slam into a car door. :-(

As an adult rider, I had this happen to me. I was not badly hurt,
luckily, but my bike frame was bent.

jen

--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..

The Outer Limits

On 2005-04-01, Jeff wrote:
When there are speed bumps, I try to go around them. A lot of times, there
is room on the side of them to make it over, or make over with only the
wheels on one side of the car hitting the bump. Of course, if you do that,
you have accomplished the goals of putting in the speed bump.

Drivers who swerve all over the road to avoid speed bumps are a hazard
to bicyclists---the drivers rarely seem to look before swerving.
That is why properly designed speed humps are the full width of the road.

The speed hump should also be long (about 10 feet along the road).
The City of Santa Cruz has good design standards for speed humps and
does a good job of installing them so that they are minimally
intrusive for bicyclists and cars obeying the 25 mph speed limit, but
are effective in slowing down the speeders. Unfortunately, I could
not find an on-line version of their design standards. I suspect that
they are fairly close to the California design standards, which I also
could not find.

------------------------------------------------------------
Kevin Karplus http://www.soe.ucsc.edu/~karplus
Professor of Biomolecular Engineering, University of California, Santa Cruz
Undergraduate and Graduate Director, Bioinformatics
(Senior member, IEEE) (Board of Directors, ISCB)
life member (LAB, Adventure Cycling, American Youth Hostels)
Effective Cycling Instructor #218-ck (lapsed)
Affiliations for identification only.

In article .com,
"shinypenny" wrote:

Claire Petersky wrote:
The most common car/bike accident happens when a motorist backs out
of the
driveway, and hits the bicyclist.

There have been numerous times my DF almost got killed because a
motorist parked on the street opened the door without looking first.
The thought terrifies me that someday he won't be able to brake his
bike in time. A bicycle helmet is fairly useless to protect against a
full body slam into a car door. :-(

jen


Since there is a bicycle lane to the left of the parking lane on our
street, this is something I try to be VERY cautious about. My brother
got injured pretty badly when someone did that to him.

On the other hand, I DID almost wipe out a bicyclist just a month or so
ago: it was early, I checked for pedestrians and other traffic, backed
across the sidewalk and into the parking lane, and sat watching over my
left shoulder for traffic to clear. When it did, I started to back out
-- only to have bicycle going the WRONG way in the bike lane appear
behind me. I hit the breaks fast enough -- but it was pretty close.

I've seen this guy (this is an adult) several times since then, always
riding on the wrong side of the street. If I ever see him stopped, I'll
have a chat with him about proper road use by bicyclists, but so far I
haven't had the chance.
--
Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care

On Fri, 1 Apr 2005 13:47:12 EST, "bizby40"
wrote:
thing I hate for more than a decade. But then he pulls
out the ultimate guilt-inducer. Without the van, we won't
have room to take the dog with us.

Do you strap the dog down in the car?
Marie

"Nikki" wrote in message
...
bizby40 wrote:

Without the van, we won't
have room to take the dog with us.


I have a solution for that one. We bought a hitch and platform for the
back of my car. We then bought one of those kennel covers that go over
the kennel so that the dog stays comfy inside when it is cold.

(...)

I would be afraid that the kennel or the whole thing on the hitch would fall
off. I know it is securely fastened, though. As long as the kennel is
securely fastened, it is safe for the dog.

If you get the hitch, you can get a bike rack for your bikes, too.

Jeff
http://tinyurl.com/487oc


--
Nikki

"shinypenny" wrote in message
oups.com...

Claire Petersky wrote:
The most common car/bike accident happens when a motorist backs out
of the
driveway, and hits the bicyclist.

There have been numerous times my DF almost got killed because a
motorist parked on the street opened the door without looking first.

This is known among cyclists as the Door Zone. Over in rec.bicycles.misc,
someone just got his $6000 Serrota totaled that way. I know of people who
have been killed, so it could have been worse.

The thought terrifies me that someday he won't be able to brake his
bike in time. A bicycle helmet is fairly useless to protect against a
full body slam into a car door. :-(

I lead kids' rides through our bike club, and I have the kids go through
about seven safety rules before we hit the road/trail. The kids think
primary safety rule is "Wear a Helmet", but really it's: "Be Alert". The
most common reason on a club ride for accidents is momentary inattention.
With kids it's even more likely that you'll be distracted or lose focus, so
it's one we really stress. Wear a helmet is at the bottom of the list.
Helmets are great when all else fails, but we never want to be in a position
when the helmet will have to come into play.

Oh all right, here's my list, so you teach it to your kids, too, for rides
on multi-use trails and in traffic:

o Stay alert
o Obey all laws
o Leave space between you and other riders
o Ride single file and as far to the right as is practical
o Communicate with others by saying, "car back!" "passing on the left!"; use
your bell or horn if you have one
o Only pass on the left, only when safe
o Wear a helmet


Warm Regards,

Claire Petersky

Personal page: http://www.geocities.com/cpetersky/
See the books I've set free at:
http://bookcrossing.com/referral/Cpetersky