The Ty Pennington Story

"Mark Probert" wrote in message
news:rWuSg.9871$8j4.6305@trndny05...
Vernon wrote:
"Mark Probert" wrote in message
news:6LgSg.1405$0Y2.255@trndny09...
Sumbuny wrote:
"Vernon" athere@athere wrote in message
m...
"Sumbuny" wrote in message
news:xbYRg.1379$Rp3.848@dukeread12...
Teachers have to be very concerned about ADHD...their jobs may depend
on how informed they are about it, if they have students that have
it....
They have students they don't like. Children are not automons that
need "fixing".
Please state where I have ever claimed that they where....

What I have implied is that teachers will always have some students
that need certain accommodations...and federal law *requires* that
these accommodations be met...

Besides have it myself, and having children with it, I am a dual
major (special ed, and elementary ed)...I know at least a little
about this...
You are obsessed with yoursel and have passed it on to your children.
There you go...assUming again...

I was diagnosed with ADHD about 10 years after my children were...


AD/HD doesn't exist except on paper.
Nest thing you will be insisting is that my son's co-morbid autism does
not exist either (as well as his co-existing determination of being
academically gifted)...

I suppose that both of these are "just on paper" as well?

Tell us...where did you get your degree in neurology? or psychiatry?
psychology?
Cracker Jack University.


O.K. so you are jealous. Sorry.

Nope.

Then quit acting like it.
Some people actually do have an education and experience in several
sciences.
I'm sorry to butt in on conversations between those who don't and get
themselves off into never never land.
You are trained in Law. Even though it is far from an exact philosophy, if
someone were to start a nonsense sequence concerning Law, in a Law news
group (I don't know if there is such a thing), you would be remiss to remain
quiet.

Vernon wrote:
"Mark Probert" wrote in message
news:rWuSg.9871$8j4.6305@trndny05...
Vernon wrote:
"Mark Probert" wrote in message
news:6LgSg.1405$0Y2.255@trndny09...
Sumbuny wrote:
"Vernon" athere@athere wrote in message
m...
"Sumbuny" wrote in message
news:xbYRg.1379$Rp3.848@dukeread12...
Teachers have to be very concerned about ADHD...their jobs may depend
on how informed they are about it, if they have students that have
it....
They have students they don't like. Children are not automons that
need "fixing".
Please state where I have ever claimed that they where....

What I have implied is that teachers will always have some students
that need certain accommodations...and federal law *requires* that
these accommodations be met...

Besides have it myself, and having children with it, I am a dual
major (special ed, and elementary ed)...I know at least a little
about this...
You are obsessed with yoursel and have passed it on to your children.
There you go...assUming again...

I was diagnosed with ADHD about 10 years after my children were...


AD/HD doesn't exist except on paper.
Nest thing you will be insisting is that my son's co-morbid autism does
not exist either (as well as his co-existing determination of being
academically gifted)...

I suppose that both of these are "just on paper" as well?

Tell us...where did you get your degree in neurology? or psychiatry?
psychology?
Cracker Jack University.

O.K. so you are jealous. Sorry.
Nope.

Then quit acting like it.

I was not acting like "it". You read too much into my words.

Some people actually do have an education and experience in several
sciences.

I know. However, some play at it.

I'm sorry to butt in on conversations between those who don't and get
themselves off into never never land.
You are trained in Law.

Since my UDP on 7/3/06, effective at 12:01 am on 7/4/06, I cannot
respond to that.

Even though it is far from an exact philosophy, if
someone were to start a nonsense sequence concerning Law, in a Law news
group (I don't know if there is such a thing), you would be remiss to remain
quiet.

"Vernon" athere@athere wrote in message
m...

"Sumbuny" wrote in message
news6gSg.1405$Rp3.472@dukeread12...



"Vernon" athere@athere wrote in message
m...

"Sumbuny" wrote in message
news:t6YRg.1378$Rp3.42@dukeread12...



"Vernon" athere@athere wrote in message
m...

"Sumbuny" wrote in message
news:GwGRg.1348$Rp3.943@dukeread12...




O.K., you have some mental problems and have found a new religion.

It is interfering with your ability to see when someone is in general
agreement.

If you think your religion needs defending, re-think your decisions.

What are you "generally agreeing" with...exactly? Oh, and FWIW, my
religious beliefs have nothing to do with my medical and educational
therapies....

"religious" is NOT limited to deistic.

Pragmatic and consistant behavior based on a beleif system is a religion
Jogging EVERY day is a religion.
TaiChi IS a religion
Yoga is a religion.
To some their doctor is their God.

YOU brought up the mind control exersize. (religion)

*IF* it becomes all-comsuming, anything can be a religion...for some,
their computer is their god--is that so for you?

considering direction of posts from Vernon

Is "anti-medication" *your* religion??? It would seem so to many here...


Since I work with many M.Ds and help in their research, hardly.
It's just that when I tell the truth about much of the medical profession
and even suggest that there are solutions that do not require medication,
the super religios become catatonic. Catatonic is an extrapolation of the
imaginary illness called ADHD.
"""""""""""""
"Is "anti-medication" *your* religion??? It would seem so to many
here..."
""""""""""""""""

Interesting...yet when I discussed that I had ADHD, and brought up a link
about classroom modification for those with ADHD, your first comments were
about "drugging" and faulty diagnoses, and religion..sounded rather Marxist,
actually g

I, on the other hand, see a diagnosis as simply a tool designed to point
someone in the correct direction for the right tools...i.e., If you need to
dig something, you need to a shovel, not a broom--but first you need to
determine you need to determine (diagnose) that you need to dig, not
sweep...



Only to the generally uneducated and Pharm employees or Doctors trying to
defend their near malpractice.
My stance is that presciption meds are almost required for direct action
against a disease / malady. THEN there is the preventative and full
recovery aspect. There are very few prescription meds for that.

There really are alternatives to patented medications.
Your term "anti medication" is an illustration of ignorance. There are
thousands of non prescription medications that are very effective.
Many exercise programs are effective.
Many placebo (mind control) programs also exist (Tai Chi, Yoga,
concentration) None have proven to be more effective than the simple
slow breathing exercises. When someone learns how to do it (no far East
mysticism religions) they can lower their heart rate AND B.P. an amazing
percentage.


Of course you have NEVER heard of the white coat syndrome or have no idea
what it specifically is.

There you go...assUming again...

Of Course I HAVE...it is what explains why my blood pressure is usually a
few points higher when my doctor takes the readings than when my friend (who
happens to be an LPN) takes them in a more friend, calmer
environemtn..."white coat hypertension" has actually been studied and
proven...

Some of us actually *do* know a thing or two about that which we discuss...

I don't suppose you know what the DSM IV is?

With breathing exercises one can actually raise their ejection factor.

I am familar with what t'ai chi breathing can do...have practiced it for
several years...does improve asthma as well....I am surprised that your
medical degree did not assUme that about me as well, since you have been so
preumptuous so far...



Of course another non-prescription answer to what is called ADHD is a
parent, a real parent, not some twit who thinks they should be a child's
freind. Being a child's freind is simply lowering one's self to the
intellect / mentality of the child. THIS IS AN INVARIABLE.



....and we all know that children need no friends....being marked as
different ensures that they have more than enough of them...

But I am not attempting to be my sons' friends...I am being their
*advocate*...trying looking up that word in the dictionary...



--
Buny

" Nobody realizes that some people expend tremendous energy merely to be
normal."
~ Albert Camus

"Vernon" athere@athere wrote in message
m...

"Sumbuny" wrote in message
news:TdgSg.1408$Rp3.582@dukeread12...


"Peter Bowditch" wrote in message
news
ace_berzerker wrote:

Vernon wrote:
The only thing I thought was that girls are easy and the prettier,
the easier. By easy, I DON'T mean sexually, just easy to make a
follower or partner. A LOT of it was not my charm (I didn't think I
had any), but having answers in group studies and in lab work.

not part of my experience.

i went to a college prep for boys, run by the jesuits.

if we got out of line, there was 60 lines of shakespeare waiting to be
memorized on saturday morning.

No problem for Vern. About the only thing he hasn't claimed is that he
wrote Shakespeare, but he has probably appeared in all the plays.
Probably taught Olivier and Brannagh how to act as well.

ROTFLMHO!!!! I have to remember this one!

Actually it is nearly impossible for me to memorize (rote memorize).

Rather common problem for those who are dealing with undiagnosed and
untreated ADHD....many have different learning styles that are not properly
addressed by their teachers, and therefore were never accommodated, and were
failed--rote learning is one of them...

However, when taught in other ways that address the differences in the way
that the brain works different, it can be amazing what can be accomplish!

Oh, I forgot--you do not ascribe to this concept....

How do you explain your inability to learn by rote?

--
Buny

" Nobody realizes that some people expend tremendous energy merely to be
normal."
~ Albert Camus

"Vernon" athere@athere wrote in message
m...

"Sumbuny" wrote in message
news:TcgSg.1406$Rp3.392@dukeread12...


One can be different and still be normal. Your semantics suck.

Agreed...I would much prefer to be "different" than someone like vernon
appears to be...I would much prefer to be someone who works toward
finding approaches that work towards a person's strengths, and "set them
up for success" rather than allow them to wallow in failure--just because
someone thinks that this is lessening the other person. That attitude is
condescension.

You are the most condescending person here ADHD
I actually "set them up AS succesful"

Yet you refuse to follow any kind of supports for anyone who is dealing with
ADHD? That is setting them up for failure...



I prefer to be "different" than the person who looks down on a person who
needs a helping hand....

I prefer to be different than the person who refuses to let the
nearsighted person put on his/her glasses, who refuses to let a person
who is Deaf have the services of a translator, who refuses to let a
person who has diabetic use insulin, who refuses to let a person who is
blind use Braille, and who refuses to let a person who cannot mentally
focus (ADHD) to use tools (such as the pedagogy tools in the link above,
or the medication comparable to the diabetic)....

A little education for you. No one is "normal".

And where did I ever claim anyone ever was?


Mental variations are more in the mind of paid psychologists or failing
parents.

Ah...a little Bettlehiem here? I believe that theory was disproven over 50
years ago...


You just refuse to say it to those who have different needs / really
advantages.

You refuse to tell someone they have special capabilities that you don't.

You just do not get it....you would probably be the one that would be in
shock when I told the preschooler who was in the wheelchair that was going
down the hall too fast to "quit running"....and the first thing she did was
hit the breaks....one of the other regular ed teachers was aghast that I
actually did that, but Jane Doe knew what she was doing--going too fast,
just like the kid next to her (I actually told them both to quit running in
the hall--they knew the rules against running in the halls). I treated her
*exactly* like any other kid...

What would you have done? Would you have said "Quit wheeling too fast?" Or
is "quit running?" to a 4 year old just as effective?

Are you afraid to say to a person who is blind "hey, next time you see Jane,
tell her this for me" just like you would say to anyone else? I do it all
the time...

Do you ask your Deaf friend, "Have you heard the one about....?" I do...

So don't make assUmptions about what I do around people with
exceptionalities...I have been working with people with exceptionalities for
16 years....both in my family and in the school system...

You have been "helping" a doctor and "helping" patients who come in when
they are sick--for how long? I have been seeing the same people routinely
for that long...

--
Buny

" Nobody realizes that some people expend tremendous energy merely to be
normal."
~ Albert Camus

"Vernon" athere@athere wrote in message
m...

"Sumbuny" wrote in message
news:lhgSg.1409$Rp3.786@dukeread12...



"Vernon" athere@athere wrote in message
m...

"Sumbuny" wrote in message
news:xbYRg.1379$Rp3.848@dukeread12...


Teachers have to be very concerned about ADHD...their jobs may depend
on how informed they are about it, if they have students that have
it....


They have students they don't like. Children are not automons that need
"fixing".

Please state where I have ever claimed that they where....

What I have implied is that teachers will always have some students that
need certain accommodations...and federal law *requires* that these
accommodations be met...

Good
As long as the various students are not separated and specifically
identified as different. The child knows whether they are different.
They don't need analysing face to face. If the teacher is any good the
teacher will help the child without saying the child is different in any
way. The biggest challenge for the teacher is to convince the child they
are "O.K".

Never said that they would--since you are so "educated" (you must be, since
you have sneered so much at those who are not in other posts), you must also
know that there are laws that also ensure that educators cannot reveal
medical conditions of students either...

Surely you knew that--since you know so much about medicine...


As a scout master a while back of 120 scouts, I ran accross all kinds.

120 Scouts? That size troop is rather large to be manageable...how did you
handle it? How did you manage to properly oversee that many boys to ensure
that everything was done according to BSA requirements and that all were
getting all of ther badges done on time, that they were progressing in rank
(i.e., that no one boy was "lagging") that all the paperwork was properly
done, etc...

Really intriguing, what with all your other duties and expertise...

A little example was a boy limited to a wheel chair. There were some
things he obviously couldn't do. I went to a local hospital and borrowed
30 wheel chairs. I set up various games for three weeks in a row. He was
a star in every one. His nick name from then on was "speedy". When we
went hiking it became a privelage for other scouts to push him when
necessary or get him over a log.

What kind of chair did you get for the hike?

His father subsequently joined the leadership and said he couldn't belive
how his son was so excited to mix. The scout earned his Eagle.

Isn't that what it is all about, though? g]


There are dozens of other such situations.

There were several which would have been perfect candidates for today's
ADHD treatment. Without exception they became leaders or semi leaders and
were the most strict with those "others" who would pay attention or moved
around or interupted.

ADHD is no bar to attaining rank...in fact, Scouting, with its goals and
benchmarks, supervised peer interaction and teaching, is actually *better*
suited in many ways to boys that have developmental difficulties such as
ADHD...I know, we have several Eagles and Eagle candidates that have ADHD,
and several Eagles over our troop's 50+ year history that have had
disabilities...





Besides have it myself, and having children with it, I am a dual major
(special ed, and elementary ed)...I know at least a little about
this...


You are obsessed with yoursel and have passed it on to your children.

There you go...assUming again...

I was diagnosed with ADHD about 10 years after my children were...



AD/HD doesn't exist except on paper.

Nest thing you will be insisting is that my son's co-morbid autism does
not exist either (as well as his co-existing determination of being
academically gifted)...

I suppose that both of these are "just on paper" as well?

Tell us...where did you get your degree in neurology? or psychiatry?
psychology?

Haven't seen you answer this one yet....



--
Buny

" Nobody realizes that some people expend tremendous energy merely to be
normal."
~ Albert Camus

"Vernon" athere@athere wrote in message
m...

"Sumbuny" wrote in message
news:lhgSg.1409$Rp3.786@dukeread12...



AD/HD doesn't exist except on paper.

Nest thing you will be insisting is that my son's co-morbid autism does
not exist either (as well as his co-existing determination of being
academically gifted)...



ADHD is NOT Autism and isn't related.

Never claimed it was....but the fact that it is a developmental disability,
it cannot be tested by blood or by EEG--it has to be test in many of the
same ways that ADHD is...

But it would seem that you have issues with people who have autism--"blame
the parent" instead of accepting that it is an actual diagnosis...
Original Message -----
From: "Vernon" athere@athere
Newsgroups:
misc.health.alternative,alt.support.attn-deficit,misc.kids.health
Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 6:19 PM
Subject: The Ty Pennington Story

Mental variations are more in the mind of paid psychologists or failing
parents.

Are you going to tell me that in the above, you are not going to include
autism?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Don't get trapped into those who want to suck you into their camp or hang
on to your dilemma..

There is nothing (nothing) more lovable and special than the autistic.

Then explain how you have painted yourself into a corner, then.....



It is not a training or psychological problem. It is physical. If
researchers can keep their concentration of analyzing nerve synapses et al
without interference from pseudo scientists called psychologists or
psychiatrists, there WILL, someday, be a cure or almost cure or even
prevention. You may not see it, but don't get side tracked in other
variances. Don't let others try to LUMP your child into a vague group
including ADHD.


Problem came about when the doctor who diagnosed him could not explain all
of his difficulties with only the autism...but with the *proper*diagnostic
constellation, and the *proper* therapy, he is now succeeding--and, with the
*proper* therapy and support (which included the things that you have had a
diatribe against, BTW)...he is now an Eagle candidate...

If I had followed your advice, he would be failing...

Good thing I choose to advocate for those who need advocates, instead of
simply judging from on high...good thing I actually work with them
(sometimes "in the trenches"...i.e., actually *in the schools* where they
need it) instead of making pronouncements that might do more harm than
good...



--
Buny

" Nobody realizes that some people expend tremendous energy merely to be
normal."
~ Albert Camus

Mark Probert wrote:
ace_berzerker wrote:
Sumbuny wrote:
"Vernon" athere@athere wrote in message
m...
Pragmatic and consistant behavior based on a beleif system is a
religion
Jogging EVERY day is a religion.
TaiChi IS a religion
Yoga is a religion.

*IF* it becomes all-comsuming, anything can be a religion...for some,
their computer is their god--is that so for you?
Is "anti-medication" *your* religion??? It would seem so to many
here...

GOOD ONE!

If you examine the writings of the anti-medication morons, you would
find that they are, for the most part, similar to religious
fundamentalists.

makes sense.

"Sumbuny" wrote in message
news:aMCSg.1448$Rp3.798@dukeread12...



"Vernon" athere@athere wrote in message
m...

"Sumbuny" wrote in message
news:TdgSg.1408$Rp3.582@dukeread12...


"Peter Bowditch" wrote in message
news ace_berzerker wrote:

Vernon wrote:
The only thing I thought was that girls are easy and the prettier,
the easier. By easy, I DON'T mean sexually, just easy to make a
follower or partner. A LOT of it was not my charm (I didn't think I
had any), but having answers in group studies and in lab work.

not part of my experience.

i went to a college prep for boys, run by the jesuits.

if we got out of line, there was 60 lines of shakespeare waiting to be
memorized on saturday morning.

No problem for Vern. About the only thing he hasn't claimed is that he
wrote Shakespeare, but he has probably appeared in all the plays.
Probably taught Olivier and Brannagh how to act as well.

ROTFLMHO!!!! I have to remember this one!

Actually it is nearly impossible for me to memorize (rote memorize).

Rather common problem for those who are dealing with undiagnosed and
untreated ADHD

Totally and completely wrong.

Do some real research.
Your phony doctors have really memorized you.

Many people who are diagnosed with ADHD have that syndrome. As adults, they
are tested as something ENTIRELY different that you will never understand or
believe. Now find out what type of person has that syndrome and what
opposite traits they have that many would practically kill for unless
hopeful actors or singers.

GO take your drugs and get happy.
Don't forget to tell your kid that you thought you were helping, then the
kid dies and you can say you did everything when you did NOTHING

Change shrinks before you do your kid some real damage that is irreversible.

"Sumbuny" wrote in message
newsWCSg.1450$Rp3.1287@dukeread12...



"Vernon" athere@athere wrote in message
m...

"Sumbuny" wrote in message
news:TcgSg.1406$Rp3.392@dukeread12...


One can be different and still be normal. Your semantics suck.

Agreed...I would much prefer to be "different" than someone like vernon
appears to be...I would much prefer to be someone who works toward
finding approaches that work towards a person's strengths, and "set them
up for success" rather than allow them to wallow in failure--just
because someone thinks that this is lessening the other person. That
attitude is condescension.

You are the most condescending person here ADHD
I actually "set them up AS succesful"

Yet you refuse to follow any kind of supports for anyone who is dealing
with ADHD? That is setting them up for failure...


No ONE has ADHD.