Anti-homeschooling

On Tue, 15 Jul 2003, Nan wrote:

On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 19:25:13 -0700, Joni Rathbun
wrote:

Our libraries no longer subscribe to Reader's Guide because we have
moved to online periodical databases. The writer might have access
to those from home if her public library system or school library
system subscribes. We grant off site access to all of our students
and staff. Online or off, however, you are correct that periodicals
would be a good source of info on this particular topic.

Yes, the libraries in Indiana use a database called INSPIRE. It's a
fantastic resource. The OP (or whoever) should call her local library
and find out the url if one is available.


*Everyone* should probably do this. I am constantly surprised
by how many people I meet locally who do not realize they have free access
to some absolutely fabulous online resources that would cost them a
few thousand dollars to subscribe to on their own. More and more
states and/or library systems are providing this service since it
usually costs little or nothing more to allow off-site access.
Theoretically speaking, every single person in the state of Nevada
has free access. All that's needed is a library card or a
student in school.

I access some of the databases on an almost daily basis and always
just hold my breath when budget time rolls around, afraid they'll
disappear. I could never afford to pay for it on my own. But the
more people who use them, the more likely it is that a state will continue
to provide funding!


(No, I'm not affilated with any of the database vendors; I'm
just an enthusiastic user! Much of the good stuff online is not
available for free....)

For what it's worth, I just ran a few searches on google for sites that
oppose home schooling. I found zilch. So, those of you who suggested
"just use google" ... where IS there any information that suggests home
schooling might not be ideal, or under what circumstances it might not
be a good idea? (And what search terms did you actually use? Mine
didn't work ...) No fair just pulling up some URLs from memory ...

--Beth Kevles

http://web.mit.edu/kevles/www/nomilk.html -- a page for the milk-allergic
Disclaimer: Nothing in this message should be construed as medical
advice. Please consult with your own medical practicioner.

In article ,
(Beth Kevles) wrote:

For what it's worth, I just ran a few searches on google for sites that
oppose home schooling. I found zilch. So, those of you who suggested
"just use google" ... where IS there any information that suggests home
schooling might not be ideal, or under what circumstances it might not
be a good idea? (And what search terms did you actually use? Mine
didn't work ...) No fair just pulling up some URLs from memory ...

--Beth Kevles

http://web.mit.edu/kevles/www/nomilk.html -- a page for the milk-allergic
Disclaimer: Nothing in this message should be construed as medical
advice. Please consult with your own medical practicioner.


You're right: it's hard to find anything. After searching briefly on
several words and combinations, I found:

http://my.voyager.net/~jayjo/homeskul.htm
A short, not particularly articulate list

http://www.cheathouse.com/essay/essa..._essay_id=9635
An essay I couldn't read without joining a site I didn't want to join

http://www.naturalchild.com/common_objections/
A list of objections, followed by all the reasons those objections are
wrong (I think this is John Holt's site).



There were several others, but they were all pro-home schoolers who were
using the site to shoot down the objections -- or, in once case, and
amusing list of "objections" that showed public school in a very bad
light.



As I think about this more, I think that this is probably not a well
designed assignment, since in a paired debate the amount and quality of
information available to both sides ought to be roughly equal -- and
there is a LOT of information in support of homeschooling. (I say
*probably* not well designed, since for all I know there is another
objective to the assignment that is not obvious from the OP.)

meh
--
Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care

On 15 Jul 2003 20:48:32 GMT, (Beth Kevles) wrote:

where IS there any information that suggests home
schooling might not be ideal, or under what circumstances it might not
be a good idea?

My MIL is a school teacher, and she has some VERY strong ideas
about why homeschooling is wrong or bad.

Perhaps the OP could interview a teacher.

--
==Daye==
Momma to Jayan
#2 EDD 11 Jan 2004
E-mail: brendana AT labyrinth DOT net DOT au

(Cathy Weeks) wrote in message . com...
"Kayo" wrote in message om...
Hello
I am looking for articles, literature, or website that against
homeschooling. I want to find out some facts (or close to facts) that why we
should NOT do homeschooling. I need this for my paired-debate speech. If
anybody knows something about this issue, please let me know. I appreciate
it.

You know..this is directed not at the OP, but at many of the
respondents. As adults we come to this newsgroup all the time,
looking for help on issues. Other parents provide URLs that they
happen to have bookmarked as a way of being helpful. It's not hurting
her in the least to provide a URL or two. It's a boost that can lead
to her finding other sites on her own. And what's the difference
between YOU saying "check out this URL" and some librarian saying "try
this book...it might have the info you need?"

And honestly, there's nothing wrong with helping a kid do her
homework. We all talk about the problems in schooling today, and the
fact that kids are turned off to learning. Telling someone "do your
own homework" isn't going to help. Mostly, it's just rude, and it
makes all of you look like a bunch of snobs who help each other only
if they are in their exclusive club (ie. parents). Don't play a role
in turning some kid off to homework. If you don't want to help, why
not say nothing?

Part of the research process is asking questions. I had to interview
people for information when I was a kid. I would have been in a sorry
state if the people I chose to interview said "do your own homework."
I finally finished my MA in English Education last year (only took me
9 years to complete) and NOWHERE did anyone suggest a tactic like
this. In fact, cooperative learning has been found to be more
effective.

To the OP. I don't have any URLs for you. But you should try the
following resources:

http://www.google.com
http://www.ask.com
http://altavista.com

In each case do a search on the words "homeschool" and "anti" or
"against". There are probably other key words you should try, but
that's what I've got off the top of my head. You might also try
"alternative schooling" and "unschooling" and "sudbury school". The
problem you will run into is that the search engines will turn up way
more sites than you can use, and most of them will not be useful. Once
you've got the search down, look at the advanced search pages for
hints how to refine your search terms to narrow it down to better
sites.

Cathy Weeks
Mommy to Kivi Alexis 12/01


Very well said, Cathy!


Catherine C.
grandmother to Brendan--Sept. 22, 2002

On Tue, 15 Jul 2003, dragonlady wrote:

In article ,
(Beth Kevles) wrote:

For what it's worth, I just ran a few searches on google for sites that
oppose home schooling. I found zilch. So, those of you who suggested
"just use google" ... where IS there any information that suggests home
schooling might not be ideal, or under what circumstances it might not
be a good idea? (And what search terms did you actually use? Mine
didn't work ...) No fair just pulling up some URLs from memory ...

--Beth Kevles

http://web.mit.edu/kevles/www/nomilk.html -- a page for the milk-allergic
Disclaimer: Nothing in this message should be construed as medical
advice. Please consult with your own medical practicioner.


You're right: it's hard to find anything. After searching briefly on
several words and combinations, I found:

http://my.voyager.net/~jayjo/homeskul.htm
A short, not particularly articulate list

http://www.cheathouse.com/essay/essa..._essay_id=9635
An essay I couldn't read without joining a site I didn't want to join

http://www.naturalchild.com/common_objections/
A list of objections, followed by all the reasons those objections are
wrong (I think this is John Holt's site).


I tried a couple off the wall searches including "homeschooling is bad"
and "home schooling is bad." Found one article I'd use:

"Educators Critize Homeschooling"
http://family.go.com/raisingkids/lea...9concerns.html

If this is a h.s. assignment, I'd head to the h.s. library. Current and
controversial issues are usually "often assigned" topics in school and
high school libraries in those schools tend to stock a lot of resources.
We have three or four series of books with titles focusing on a wide
range of topics... series such as "Opposing Viewpoints" which give
both sides of an issue. They're designed for assignments like this.

I'd also find the librarian at school or the public library and
get access to the databases. I've found a couple of useful journal
articles via EBSCO (periodicals) so far.

I'm a homeschooling fan and have homeschooled in the past but my one
concern I'm finding little on. Well, nothing so far. There's plenty
of info on the related issues... assessment and learning. But I'm
not seeing my slant connected to homeschooling. I could do it but
it wouldn't be a pre-grad school assignment!

On 15 Jul 2003 23:06:11 GMT, (Beth Kevles) wrote:

you ferret out the people who merely SAY they're homeschooling, but are
really abusing the concept?

I am not sure it is that easy. I have known parents who said
they were homeschooling, but they were actually too
drunk/stoned/lazy to get their kids to school.

However, I know teachers who abuse their jobs. They don't teach.
They can't teach. Students aren't learning.

You have examples of "the bad" on both sides.

--
==Daye==
Momma to Jayan
#2 EDD 11 Jan 2004
E-mail: brendana AT labyrinth DOT net DOT au

Hi, again --

On thinking again about homeschooling (NOT something I personally have
the energy for, but I've seen excellent results from friends who do it)
my major concern would not be about the average homeschooler, but how do
you ferret out the people who merely SAY they're homeschooling, but are
really abusing the concept? (Ie, either not educating their children,
or teaching them abhorrent things such as how evil their country is and
how to be a terrorist, or neglecting or abusing their children and using
the cover of "homeschooling" to hide their children from contact with
the outside world.)

I guess I'd also be concerned about the well-intentioned parent who
decides to homeschool but does a very poor job of it. If such a parent
(for reasons of pride or prejudice etc.) continues to try and make a
hash of it, how do you help out the parent AND child?

The homeschoolers I know personally have thought out their reasons for
homeschooling quite well I love how well their kids are doing, both
academically and otherwise. But I only know a few.

Are there any good stats. on how homeschool children once they leave the
homeschool? I know about the ones that excel; they get national press
when they win spelling bees, go to college, etc. But what does
"average" look like? And how do you tell when a homeschool situation
isn't working out? I mean, from the outside? How do you study the poor
homeschooling situations?

Any thoughts (that aren't merely knee-jerk supports of homeschooling)
would be welcome.

--Beth Kevles

http://web.mit.edu/kevles/www/nomilk.html -- a page for the milk-allergic
Disclaimer: Nothing in this message should be construed as medical
advice. Please consult with your own medical practicioner.

"==Daye==" wrote in message
...
On 15 Jul 2003 23:06:11 GMT, (Beth Kevles) wrote:

you ferret out the people who merely SAY they're homeschooling, but are
really abusing the concept?

I am not sure it is that easy. I have known parents who said
they were homeschooling, but they were actually too
drunk/stoned/lazy to get their kids to school.

However, I know teachers who abuse their jobs. They don't teach.
They can't teach. Students aren't learning.

However, there is more oversight and accountability of teachers. Before
tenure, you are evaluated several times a year-and can be terminated at any
time. After tenure, you're still evaluated regularly, and can be removed if
problems arise. In most states, if students fail the state test, the teacher
is held accountable.


Similarly, IF homeschooling parents are required to file an educational plan
and to demonstrate progress in some way, it is unlikely that parents will
homeschool for the wrong reasons for long. This doesn't mean the state
restricts homeschooling, simply that the onus is on the parent to
demonstrate that they are doing something.

If there is accountability in place, and the measures are followed, there
will be much less abuse. If you have no accountability, then you are much
more likely to see abuse of the system.

And when school districts suggest to parents that they list their child as
homeschooled to get around the truancy laws (as has happened some here with
high school kids who have dropped out, but are too young to do so legally,
since the parent can be legally charged if the child doesn't attend) it
gives BOTH systems a bad name!

You have examples of "the bad" on both sides.

--
==Daye==
Momma to Jayan
#2 EDD 11 Jan 2004
E-mail: brendana AT labyrinth DOT net DOT au

In article ,
says...

Hi, again --

On thinking again about homeschooling (NOT something I personally have
the energy for, but I've seen excellent results from friends who do it)
my major concern would not be about the average homeschooler, but how do
you ferret out the people who merely SAY they're homeschooling, but are
really abusing the concept?

Each state has their own homeschooling requirements. You could
certainly get away with that in some states, couldn't in others.
Texas doesn't require any reporting at all, and Wyoming is pretty
lax. Other states require standardized testing, portfolios, and
regular semester visits from someone inspecting the homeschooling
stuff.

I guess I'd also be concerned about the well-intentioned parent who
decides to homeschool but does a very poor job of it. If such a parent
(for reasons of pride or prejudice etc.) continues to try and make a
hash of it, how do you help out the parent AND child?

Some states require homeschoolers to put the kids back in school if
they fall below an arbitrary line on standardized tests. And, of
course, you can ask the same questions about public schools, which
also often do a very poor job of educating kids.

Are there any good stats. on how homeschool children once they leave the
homeschool? I know about the ones that excel; they get national press
when they win spelling bees, go to college, etc. But what does
"average" look like? And how do you tell when a homeschool situation
isn't working out? I mean, from the outside? How do you study the poor
homeschooling situations?

The average homeschooler does better by most standards than the
average public schooler, but there are probably a lot of things that
should be factored out before you can state for sure what's better
and what's not.

Michelle
Flutist
--
In my heart. By my side.
Never apart. AP with Pride!
Katrina Marie (10/19/96)
Xander Ryan (09/22/98 - 02/23/99)
Gareth Xander (07/17/00)
Zachary Mitchell (01/12/94, began fostering 09/05/01)
Theona Alexis (06/03/03)