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#71
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How can I prosecute Child Stealing / Custodial Interference (CAL PC 278.5)
Parts snipped for brevity:
On Wed, 26 May 2004 07:25:22 -0400, "Paul Fritz" wrote: "Beverly" wrote in message .. . I am always willing to stand corrected... better yet if the correcting party is right. I'm not so certain you are right, however. Further discussion in line: On Tue, 25 May 2004 12:54:23 -0400, "P.Fritz" wrote: "Beverly" wrote in message .. . 2. Even though you and your ex do not share a domicile, the case is domestic. Not if she violated a criminal law. I believe that things such as "domestic violence" is a situation in which a criminal law is violated; yet, it is still domestic. I don't believe the two are mutually exclusive. Domestic violence is still a criminal law and is prosecuted in a criminal court not a civil/family court. Pardon me, it appeared as though you were telling us a case can NOT be domestic if she violated a criminal law. By the way, domestic violence can be assault and battery, which is both civil and criminal. "Process" means what, exactly? Sounds like the officer "processed" the paperwork even if he didn't want to. Once the paperwork was done, I'll even bet it was "processed" again... perhaps into a bench warrant... maybe into the "circular file." To what extent do you believe all reported crimes are processed? As in passed to the prosecuting attorney. The prosecutor or "DA" will not have to do anything unless the criminal complaint has be filed with the police. A warrant will not be issues unless the prosecutor presents the complaint to a judge. Each step MUST be taken by the complaintant or no misconduct complaint can be taken against any of the above parties. Many reports of crimes never make it past the investigation stage. Lack of sufficient evidence to indict is a key factor. Cripes, what do you think a warrant for not paying CS is. A warrant for contempt, which is criminal. Courts don't 'mean' anything. It is a matter of how the law is written in the legislature. Taking (moving) a child across state lines while denying a specified parenting time......it has nothing to do with establishing residence. Geesh. The courts interpret. "Moving" may be interpreted as "establishing residence." It may also be interpreted as motion. Denying a non-custodial parent ordered visitation without cause (i.e. NCP staggers to the door in a drunken stupor to pick up child) should be a felony in and of itself WITHOUT a definition of "moving" although I know it has not been. My opinion, when reading the law as it was shared with us, is that lawmakers intended to keep CPs from changing the child's residency across state lines in an effort to thwart visitation. Hence, if CP wants to move from California to Oklahoma, CP must ensure, and even pay for transportation, if necessary, that visitation can commence as usual. I may be wrong... you may be taking it too literally. Hopefully, we will find out. You obviously are not an attorney because the advise you give is so **** poor. I never said I was an attorney. You are welcome to your opinion. Telling someone to tape phone calls without nowing the state laws is outrright negligent. And I have told him to check his state laws. As an aside, I have no beef with you and wonder why you seem so hostile toward me. Why do you think you are so much the expert and that what I have to say cannot possibly be of value? |
#72
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How can I prosecute Child Stealing / Custodial Interference (CAL PC 278.5)
Parts snipped for brevity:
On Wed, 26 May 2004 07:25:22 -0400, "Paul Fritz" wrote: "Beverly" wrote in message .. . I am always willing to stand corrected... better yet if the correcting party is right. I'm not so certain you are right, however. Further discussion in line: On Tue, 25 May 2004 12:54:23 -0400, "P.Fritz" wrote: "Beverly" wrote in message .. . 2. Even though you and your ex do not share a domicile, the case is domestic. Not if she violated a criminal law. I believe that things such as "domestic violence" is a situation in which a criminal law is violated; yet, it is still domestic. I don't believe the two are mutually exclusive. Domestic violence is still a criminal law and is prosecuted in a criminal court not a civil/family court. Pardon me, it appeared as though you were telling us a case can NOT be domestic if she violated a criminal law. By the way, domestic violence can be assault and battery, which is both civil and criminal. "Process" means what, exactly? Sounds like the officer "processed" the paperwork even if he didn't want to. Once the paperwork was done, I'll even bet it was "processed" again... perhaps into a bench warrant... maybe into the "circular file." To what extent do you believe all reported crimes are processed? As in passed to the prosecuting attorney. The prosecutor or "DA" will not have to do anything unless the criminal complaint has be filed with the police. A warrant will not be issues unless the prosecutor presents the complaint to a judge. Each step MUST be taken by the complaintant or no misconduct complaint can be taken against any of the above parties. Many reports of crimes never make it past the investigation stage. Lack of sufficient evidence to indict is a key factor. Cripes, what do you think a warrant for not paying CS is. A warrant for contempt, which is criminal. Courts don't 'mean' anything. It is a matter of how the law is written in the legislature. Taking (moving) a child across state lines while denying a specified parenting time......it has nothing to do with establishing residence. Geesh. The courts interpret. "Moving" may be interpreted as "establishing residence." It may also be interpreted as motion. Denying a non-custodial parent ordered visitation without cause (i.e. NCP staggers to the door in a drunken stupor to pick up child) should be a felony in and of itself WITHOUT a definition of "moving" although I know it has not been. My opinion, when reading the law as it was shared with us, is that lawmakers intended to keep CPs from changing the child's residency across state lines in an effort to thwart visitation. Hence, if CP wants to move from California to Oklahoma, CP must ensure, and even pay for transportation, if necessary, that visitation can commence as usual. I may be wrong... you may be taking it too literally. Hopefully, we will find out. You obviously are not an attorney because the advise you give is so **** poor. I never said I was an attorney. You are welcome to your opinion. Telling someone to tape phone calls without nowing the state laws is outrright negligent. And I have told him to check his state laws. As an aside, I have no beef with you and wonder why you seem so hostile toward me. Why do you think you are so much the expert and that what I have to say cannot possibly be of value? |
#73
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How can I prosecute Child Stealing / Custodial Interference (CAL PC 278.5)
Parts snipped for brevity:
On Wed, 26 May 2004 07:25:22 -0400, "Paul Fritz" wrote: "Beverly" wrote in message .. . I am always willing to stand corrected... better yet if the correcting party is right. I'm not so certain you are right, however. Further discussion in line: On Tue, 25 May 2004 12:54:23 -0400, "P.Fritz" wrote: "Beverly" wrote in message .. . 2. Even though you and your ex do not share a domicile, the case is domestic. Not if she violated a criminal law. I believe that things such as "domestic violence" is a situation in which a criminal law is violated; yet, it is still domestic. I don't believe the two are mutually exclusive. Domestic violence is still a criminal law and is prosecuted in a criminal court not a civil/family court. Pardon me, it appeared as though you were telling us a case can NOT be domestic if she violated a criminal law. By the way, domestic violence can be assault and battery, which is both civil and criminal. "Process" means what, exactly? Sounds like the officer "processed" the paperwork even if he didn't want to. Once the paperwork was done, I'll even bet it was "processed" again... perhaps into a bench warrant... maybe into the "circular file." To what extent do you believe all reported crimes are processed? As in passed to the prosecuting attorney. The prosecutor or "DA" will not have to do anything unless the criminal complaint has be filed with the police. A warrant will not be issues unless the prosecutor presents the complaint to a judge. Each step MUST be taken by the complaintant or no misconduct complaint can be taken against any of the above parties. Many reports of crimes never make it past the investigation stage. Lack of sufficient evidence to indict is a key factor. Cripes, what do you think a warrant for not paying CS is. A warrant for contempt, which is criminal. Courts don't 'mean' anything. It is a matter of how the law is written in the legislature. Taking (moving) a child across state lines while denying a specified parenting time......it has nothing to do with establishing residence. Geesh. The courts interpret. "Moving" may be interpreted as "establishing residence." It may also be interpreted as motion. Denying a non-custodial parent ordered visitation without cause (i.e. NCP staggers to the door in a drunken stupor to pick up child) should be a felony in and of itself WITHOUT a definition of "moving" although I know it has not been. My opinion, when reading the law as it was shared with us, is that lawmakers intended to keep CPs from changing the child's residency across state lines in an effort to thwart visitation. Hence, if CP wants to move from California to Oklahoma, CP must ensure, and even pay for transportation, if necessary, that visitation can commence as usual. I may be wrong... you may be taking it too literally. Hopefully, we will find out. You obviously are not an attorney because the advise you give is so **** poor. I never said I was an attorney. You are welcome to your opinion. Telling someone to tape phone calls without nowing the state laws is outrright negligent. And I have told him to check his state laws. As an aside, I have no beef with you and wonder why you seem so hostile toward me. Why do you think you are so much the expert and that what I have to say cannot possibly be of value? |
#74
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How can I prosecute Child Stealing / Custodial Interference (CALPC 278.5)
P.Fritz wrote:
Yes, it means up to 1 year of imprisonment when convicted. BTW, before you whine any further, I have personally seen it be applied....and just the threat of it deters parenting time interference. Right, that's what I'm hoping...she will stop interfering if she thinks there's a possibility of serious consequences. It's the positive behavior changes that the threat of these penalties should compel that I'm looking for. What if, as part of my contempt hearing, I submit a motion to modify our custody orders to include an "enforcement clause". Like a note to the police or to the DA, right in the order, saying something like "If there is evidence of either parent interfering with custody, the police are encouraged to pursue criminal penalties." ? Sounds extreme, but it would probably go a long way toward putting the "fear of law" into interfering mom. Oh, in response to an earlier post saying that the statutes usually specify a time period. California's 278.5 does not specify any time period. Jay R. |
#75
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How can I prosecute Child Stealing / Custodial Interference (CALPC 278.5)
P.Fritz wrote:
Yes, it means up to 1 year of imprisonment when convicted. BTW, before you whine any further, I have personally seen it be applied....and just the threat of it deters parenting time interference. Right, that's what I'm hoping...she will stop interfering if she thinks there's a possibility of serious consequences. It's the positive behavior changes that the threat of these penalties should compel that I'm looking for. What if, as part of my contempt hearing, I submit a motion to modify our custody orders to include an "enforcement clause". Like a note to the police or to the DA, right in the order, saying something like "If there is evidence of either parent interfering with custody, the police are encouraged to pursue criminal penalties." ? Sounds extreme, but it would probably go a long way toward putting the "fear of law" into interfering mom. Oh, in response to an earlier post saying that the statutes usually specify a time period. California's 278.5 does not specify any time period. Jay R. |
#76
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How can I prosecute Child Stealing / Custodial Interference (CALPC 278.5)
P.Fritz wrote:
Yes, it means up to 1 year of imprisonment when convicted. BTW, before you whine any further, I have personally seen it be applied....and just the threat of it deters parenting time interference. Right, that's what I'm hoping...she will stop interfering if she thinks there's a possibility of serious consequences. It's the positive behavior changes that the threat of these penalties should compel that I'm looking for. What if, as part of my contempt hearing, I submit a motion to modify our custody orders to include an "enforcement clause". Like a note to the police or to the DA, right in the order, saying something like "If there is evidence of either parent interfering with custody, the police are encouraged to pursue criminal penalties." ? Sounds extreme, but it would probably go a long way toward putting the "fear of law" into interfering mom. Oh, in response to an earlier post saying that the statutes usually specify a time period. California's 278.5 does not specify any time period. Jay R. |
#77
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How can I prosecute Child Stealing / Custodial Interference (CALPC 278.5)
Hello,
Does anybody have access to Findlaw, or the ability to look up the following case: People v. Bormann, 6 Cal.App.3d 292. I found a reference to it in an Oakland Police training document. This case may provide a precedent I can use. I guess I could ask my attorney to look it up, but it costs me $75 just to have him answer the phone. Jay R. |
#78
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How can I prosecute Child Stealing / Custodial Interference (CALPC 278.5)
Hello,
Does anybody have access to Findlaw, or the ability to look up the following case: People v. Bormann, 6 Cal.App.3d 292. I found a reference to it in an Oakland Police training document. This case may provide a precedent I can use. I guess I could ask my attorney to look it up, but it costs me $75 just to have him answer the phone. Jay R. |
#79
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How can I prosecute Child Stealing / Custodial Interference (CALPC 278.5)
Hello,
Does anybody have access to Findlaw, or the ability to look up the following case: People v. Bormann, 6 Cal.App.3d 292. I found a reference to it in an Oakland Police training document. This case may provide a precedent I can use. I guess I could ask my attorney to look it up, but it costs me $75 just to have him answer the phone. Jay R. |
#80
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How can I prosecute Child Stealing / Custodial Interference (CAL PC 278.5)
"JR" wrote in message ... Hello, Does anybody have access to Findlaw, or the ability to look up the following case: People v. Bormann, 6 Cal.App.3d 292. I found a reference to it in an Oakland Police training document. This case may provide a precedent I can use. I guess I could ask my attorney to look it up, but it costs me $75 just to have him answer the phone. Go to a law library.....either a law school or county court house , Jay R. |
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