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How can I prosecute Child Stealing / Custodial Interference (CALPC 278.5)



 
 
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  #71  
Old May 27th 04, 05:08 AM
Beverly
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default How can I prosecute Child Stealing / Custodial Interference (CAL PC 278.5)

Parts snipped for brevity:

On Wed, 26 May 2004 07:25:22 -0400, "Paul Fritz"
wrote:


"Beverly" wrote in message
.. .
I am always willing to stand corrected... better yet if the correcting
party is right. I'm not so certain you are right, however. Further
discussion in line:

On Tue, 25 May 2004 12:54:23 -0400, "P.Fritz"
wrote:


"Beverly" wrote in message
.. .


2. Even though you and your ex do not share a domicile, the case is
domestic.

Not if she violated a criminal law.


I believe that things such as "domestic violence" is a situation in
which a criminal law is violated; yet, it is still domestic. I don't
believe the two are mutually exclusive.


Domestic violence is still a criminal law and is prosecuted in a criminal
court not a civil/family court.


Pardon me, it appeared as though you were telling us a case can NOT be
domestic if she violated a criminal law. By the way, domestic
violence can be assault and battery, which is both civil and criminal.

"Process" means what, exactly? Sounds like the officer "processed"
the paperwork even if he didn't want to. Once the paperwork was done,
I'll even bet it was "processed" again... perhaps into a bench
warrant... maybe into the "circular file." To what extent do you
believe all reported crimes are processed?


As in passed to the prosecuting attorney. The prosecutor or "DA" will
not have to do anything unless the criminal complaint has be filed with the
police. A warrant will not be issues unless the prosecutor presents the
complaint to a judge. Each step MUST be taken by the complaintant or no
misconduct complaint can be taken against any of the above parties.


Many reports of crimes never make it past the investigation stage.
Lack of sufficient evidence to indict is a key factor.

Cripes, what do you think a warrant for not paying CS is.


A warrant for contempt, which is criminal.

Courts don't 'mean' anything. It is a matter of how the law is written in
the legislature. Taking (moving) a child across state lines while denying a
specified parenting time......it has nothing to do with establishing
residence. Geesh.


The courts interpret. "Moving" may be interpreted as "establishing
residence." It may also be interpreted as motion. Denying a
non-custodial parent ordered visitation without cause (i.e. NCP
staggers to the door in a drunken stupor to pick up child) should be a
felony in and of itself WITHOUT a definition of "moving" although I
know it has not been. My opinion, when reading the law as it was
shared with us, is that lawmakers intended to keep CPs from changing
the child's residency across state lines in an effort to thwart
visitation. Hence, if CP wants to move from California to Oklahoma,
CP must ensure, and even pay for transportation, if necessary, that
visitation can commence as usual. I may be wrong... you may be taking
it too literally. Hopefully, we will find out.
You obviously are not an attorney because the advise you give is so

****
poor.


I never said I was an attorney. You are welcome to your opinion.


Telling someone to tape phone calls without nowing the state laws is
outrright negligent.

And I have told him to check his state laws.

As an aside, I have no beef with you and wonder why you seem so
hostile toward me. Why do you think you are so much the expert and
that what I have to say cannot possibly be of value?
  #72  
Old May 27th 04, 05:08 AM
Beverly
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default How can I prosecute Child Stealing / Custodial Interference (CAL PC 278.5)

Parts snipped for brevity:

On Wed, 26 May 2004 07:25:22 -0400, "Paul Fritz"
wrote:


"Beverly" wrote in message
.. .
I am always willing to stand corrected... better yet if the correcting
party is right. I'm not so certain you are right, however. Further
discussion in line:

On Tue, 25 May 2004 12:54:23 -0400, "P.Fritz"
wrote:


"Beverly" wrote in message
.. .


2. Even though you and your ex do not share a domicile, the case is
domestic.

Not if she violated a criminal law.


I believe that things such as "domestic violence" is a situation in
which a criminal law is violated; yet, it is still domestic. I don't
believe the two are mutually exclusive.


Domestic violence is still a criminal law and is prosecuted in a criminal
court not a civil/family court.


Pardon me, it appeared as though you were telling us a case can NOT be
domestic if she violated a criminal law. By the way, domestic
violence can be assault and battery, which is both civil and criminal.

"Process" means what, exactly? Sounds like the officer "processed"
the paperwork even if he didn't want to. Once the paperwork was done,
I'll even bet it was "processed" again... perhaps into a bench
warrant... maybe into the "circular file." To what extent do you
believe all reported crimes are processed?


As in passed to the prosecuting attorney. The prosecutor or "DA" will
not have to do anything unless the criminal complaint has be filed with the
police. A warrant will not be issues unless the prosecutor presents the
complaint to a judge. Each step MUST be taken by the complaintant or no
misconduct complaint can be taken against any of the above parties.


Many reports of crimes never make it past the investigation stage.
Lack of sufficient evidence to indict is a key factor.

Cripes, what do you think a warrant for not paying CS is.


A warrant for contempt, which is criminal.

Courts don't 'mean' anything. It is a matter of how the law is written in
the legislature. Taking (moving) a child across state lines while denying a
specified parenting time......it has nothing to do with establishing
residence. Geesh.


The courts interpret. "Moving" may be interpreted as "establishing
residence." It may also be interpreted as motion. Denying a
non-custodial parent ordered visitation without cause (i.e. NCP
staggers to the door in a drunken stupor to pick up child) should be a
felony in and of itself WITHOUT a definition of "moving" although I
know it has not been. My opinion, when reading the law as it was
shared with us, is that lawmakers intended to keep CPs from changing
the child's residency across state lines in an effort to thwart
visitation. Hence, if CP wants to move from California to Oklahoma,
CP must ensure, and even pay for transportation, if necessary, that
visitation can commence as usual. I may be wrong... you may be taking
it too literally. Hopefully, we will find out.
You obviously are not an attorney because the advise you give is so

****
poor.


I never said I was an attorney. You are welcome to your opinion.


Telling someone to tape phone calls without nowing the state laws is
outrright negligent.

And I have told him to check his state laws.

As an aside, I have no beef with you and wonder why you seem so
hostile toward me. Why do you think you are so much the expert and
that what I have to say cannot possibly be of value?
  #73  
Old May 27th 04, 05:08 AM
Beverly
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default How can I prosecute Child Stealing / Custodial Interference (CAL PC 278.5)

Parts snipped for brevity:

On Wed, 26 May 2004 07:25:22 -0400, "Paul Fritz"
wrote:


"Beverly" wrote in message
.. .
I am always willing to stand corrected... better yet if the correcting
party is right. I'm not so certain you are right, however. Further
discussion in line:

On Tue, 25 May 2004 12:54:23 -0400, "P.Fritz"
wrote:


"Beverly" wrote in message
.. .


2. Even though you and your ex do not share a domicile, the case is
domestic.

Not if she violated a criminal law.


I believe that things such as "domestic violence" is a situation in
which a criminal law is violated; yet, it is still domestic. I don't
believe the two are mutually exclusive.


Domestic violence is still a criminal law and is prosecuted in a criminal
court not a civil/family court.


Pardon me, it appeared as though you were telling us a case can NOT be
domestic if she violated a criminal law. By the way, domestic
violence can be assault and battery, which is both civil and criminal.

"Process" means what, exactly? Sounds like the officer "processed"
the paperwork even if he didn't want to. Once the paperwork was done,
I'll even bet it was "processed" again... perhaps into a bench
warrant... maybe into the "circular file." To what extent do you
believe all reported crimes are processed?


As in passed to the prosecuting attorney. The prosecutor or "DA" will
not have to do anything unless the criminal complaint has be filed with the
police. A warrant will not be issues unless the prosecutor presents the
complaint to a judge. Each step MUST be taken by the complaintant or no
misconduct complaint can be taken against any of the above parties.


Many reports of crimes never make it past the investigation stage.
Lack of sufficient evidence to indict is a key factor.

Cripes, what do you think a warrant for not paying CS is.


A warrant for contempt, which is criminal.

Courts don't 'mean' anything. It is a matter of how the law is written in
the legislature. Taking (moving) a child across state lines while denying a
specified parenting time......it has nothing to do with establishing
residence. Geesh.


The courts interpret. "Moving" may be interpreted as "establishing
residence." It may also be interpreted as motion. Denying a
non-custodial parent ordered visitation without cause (i.e. NCP
staggers to the door in a drunken stupor to pick up child) should be a
felony in and of itself WITHOUT a definition of "moving" although I
know it has not been. My opinion, when reading the law as it was
shared with us, is that lawmakers intended to keep CPs from changing
the child's residency across state lines in an effort to thwart
visitation. Hence, if CP wants to move from California to Oklahoma,
CP must ensure, and even pay for transportation, if necessary, that
visitation can commence as usual. I may be wrong... you may be taking
it too literally. Hopefully, we will find out.
You obviously are not an attorney because the advise you give is so

****
poor.


I never said I was an attorney. You are welcome to your opinion.


Telling someone to tape phone calls without nowing the state laws is
outrright negligent.

And I have told him to check his state laws.

As an aside, I have no beef with you and wonder why you seem so
hostile toward me. Why do you think you are so much the expert and
that what I have to say cannot possibly be of value?
  #74  
Old May 27th 04, 06:02 AM
JR
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default How can I prosecute Child Stealing / Custodial Interference (CALPC 278.5)

P.Fritz wrote:

Yes, it means up to 1 year of imprisonment when convicted.
BTW, before you whine any further, I have personally seen it be
applied....and just the threat of it deters parenting time interference.

Right, that's what I'm hoping...she will stop interfering if she thinks
there's a possibility of serious consequences. It's the positive
behavior changes that the threat of these penalties should compel that
I'm looking for.

What if, as part of my contempt hearing, I submit a motion to modify our
custody orders to include an "enforcement clause". Like a note to the
police or to the DA, right in the order, saying something like "If there
is evidence of either parent interfering with custody, the police are
encouraged to pursue criminal penalties." ? Sounds extreme, but it
would probably go a long way toward putting the "fear of law" into
interfering mom.

Oh, in response to an earlier post saying that the statutes usually
specify a time period. California's 278.5 does not specify any time period.

Jay R.

  #75  
Old May 27th 04, 06:02 AM
JR
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default How can I prosecute Child Stealing / Custodial Interference (CALPC 278.5)

P.Fritz wrote:

Yes, it means up to 1 year of imprisonment when convicted.
BTW, before you whine any further, I have personally seen it be
applied....and just the threat of it deters parenting time interference.

Right, that's what I'm hoping...she will stop interfering if she thinks
there's a possibility of serious consequences. It's the positive
behavior changes that the threat of these penalties should compel that
I'm looking for.

What if, as part of my contempt hearing, I submit a motion to modify our
custody orders to include an "enforcement clause". Like a note to the
police or to the DA, right in the order, saying something like "If there
is evidence of either parent interfering with custody, the police are
encouraged to pursue criminal penalties." ? Sounds extreme, but it
would probably go a long way toward putting the "fear of law" into
interfering mom.

Oh, in response to an earlier post saying that the statutes usually
specify a time period. California's 278.5 does not specify any time period.

Jay R.

  #76  
Old May 27th 04, 06:02 AM
JR
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default How can I prosecute Child Stealing / Custodial Interference (CALPC 278.5)

P.Fritz wrote:

Yes, it means up to 1 year of imprisonment when convicted.
BTW, before you whine any further, I have personally seen it be
applied....and just the threat of it deters parenting time interference.

Right, that's what I'm hoping...she will stop interfering if she thinks
there's a possibility of serious consequences. It's the positive
behavior changes that the threat of these penalties should compel that
I'm looking for.

What if, as part of my contempt hearing, I submit a motion to modify our
custody orders to include an "enforcement clause". Like a note to the
police or to the DA, right in the order, saying something like "If there
is evidence of either parent interfering with custody, the police are
encouraged to pursue criminal penalties." ? Sounds extreme, but it
would probably go a long way toward putting the "fear of law" into
interfering mom.

Oh, in response to an earlier post saying that the statutes usually
specify a time period. California's 278.5 does not specify any time period.

Jay R.

  #77  
Old May 27th 04, 06:22 AM
JR
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default How can I prosecute Child Stealing / Custodial Interference (CALPC 278.5)

Hello,

Does anybody have access to Findlaw, or the ability to look up the
following case:

People v. Bormann, 6 Cal.App.3d 292.

I found a reference to it in an Oakland Police training document. This
case may provide a precedent I can use. I guess I could ask my attorney
to look it up, but it costs me $75 just to have him answer the phone.

Jay R.

  #78  
Old May 27th 04, 06:22 AM
JR
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default How can I prosecute Child Stealing / Custodial Interference (CALPC 278.5)

Hello,

Does anybody have access to Findlaw, or the ability to look up the
following case:

People v. Bormann, 6 Cal.App.3d 292.

I found a reference to it in an Oakland Police training document. This
case may provide a precedent I can use. I guess I could ask my attorney
to look it up, but it costs me $75 just to have him answer the phone.

Jay R.

  #79  
Old May 27th 04, 06:22 AM
JR
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default How can I prosecute Child Stealing / Custodial Interference (CALPC 278.5)

Hello,

Does anybody have access to Findlaw, or the ability to look up the
following case:

People v. Bormann, 6 Cal.App.3d 292.

I found a reference to it in an Oakland Police training document. This
case may provide a precedent I can use. I guess I could ask my attorney
to look it up, but it costs me $75 just to have him answer the phone.

Jay R.

  #80  
Old May 27th 04, 01:07 PM
Paul Fritz
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default How can I prosecute Child Stealing / Custodial Interference (CAL PC 278.5)


"JR" wrote in message
...
Hello,

Does anybody have access to Findlaw, or the ability to look up the
following case:

People v. Bormann, 6 Cal.App.3d 292.

I found a reference to it in an Oakland Police training document. This
case may provide a precedent I can use. I guess I could ask my attorney
to look it up, but it costs me $75 just to have him answer the phone.


Go to a law library.....either a law school or county court house ,


Jay R.



 




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