snappy comeback needed (venting, too)

In article .com, -L. says...


Anonymama wrote:
One of the many issues I'm dealing with right now, as we try to figure
out why my three-year-old has ADHD-type behavior, is other parents. I'm
really, really, really tired of disapproving glares and unsolicited
advice from strangers. I try to let it roll off my back, but sometimes
-- especially if they're people I see often, e.g. at the playground -- I
feel the need to say something.

What I want to say is "**** off, we're doing the best we can," but that
isn't really modeling calm behavior, is it? Instead I find myself saying
"thank you" and walking away (screaming child in my arms).

Is there a polite way to say "please don't judge my child by the way
your placid lump of a child behaves"?

"Placid lump if a child"?

Now WHO is being judgemental? Sorry, I'll take my "placid lump of a
child" over your uncontrollable brat, anyday.

Sheesh.

-L.
(And she wonders why the kid's uncontrollable...)


The salient word in her post - in her subject line - is "vent". Yes, strictly
it's a pot-kettle-black. But, isn't that the kind of thing just about every
flesh-and-blood copy of humanity thinks when they're really peeved? It's a
VENT. I'm willing to give her that latitude.

Banty

In article , Chookie
says...

In article ,
Anonymama wrote:

One of the many issues I'm dealing with right now, as we try to figure
out why my three-year-old has ADHD-type behavior, is other parents. I'm
really, really, really tired of disapproving glares and unsolicited
advice from strangers. I try to let it roll off my back, but sometimes
-- especially if they're people I see often, e.g. at the playground -- I
feel the need to say something.
snip
On second thought, I think I'll just start slapping people when my son
isn't looking. It would make _me_ feel lots better...

LOL, but it would be hard to cure your son of the habit later -- because he IS
looking!

TBH I find it strange that people shoot disapproving glares at you because
your 3yo is screaming. Don't lots of kids that age have tanties? Secondly,
I've usually found it pretty obvious when 'bad behaviour' arises from a
disability, and I don't think I'm terribly perceptive. Perhaps these
unpleasant people are just really, really thick?

I'd be inclined to look the helpful hints brigade straight in the eye and say:
"As a matter of fact I have 3 specialist appointments to assess him in the
next month/ 4 specialists working on his specific difficulties," or whatever
is currently going on. Keep looking them in the eye until you see the light
dawn, then walk off. You might feel this is too much like telling strangers
your private business, but from what I can see, every parent of a disabled
child becomes an activist, and this could be your starting point.

Erg. I just have this aversion to any idea of folks *explaining* themselves to
*stangers* for stuff like this. Explanations aren't owed.

It occurs to me, though, that it is a two-way street.

If she's getting a LOT of icy stares for bad behavior in a child of an age where
bad behavior is pretty much a given, perhaps she's taking him to venues that
really shouldn't have a disruptive kid, and/or isn't moving him quickly to a
appropriate area when he does act up. Something to consider.

Banty

Banty wrote in
:

If she's getting a LOT of icy stares for bad behavior in a
child of an age where bad behavior is pretty much a given,
perhaps she's taking him to venues that really shouldn't
have a disruptive kid, and/or isn't moving him quickly to a
appropriate area when he does act up. Something to
consider.

i don't know about 3 year olds suspected of having ADHD, but
i do know that 3 year olds with ASD or sensory issues can have
really over-the-top, spectacularly uncontrolable meltdowns.
they are way more than the average 3 year old tantrum & i can
see (have seen actually) the icy stares as the parent tries to
cope with it.
not unsurprisingly, meltdowns tend to happen exactly when you
*can't* quickly remove the kid, like waiting in a checkout
line with something you *need* to buy. otherwise, i'm sure the
parent would be removing the kid from the source of
overstimulation/conflict as fast as humanly possible. it's not
like we enjoy inflictng meltdowns on other people.
another thing to note is that, while coping mechanisms do
tend to improve somewhat as the kid ages, it is still
possible/not uncommon for a kid with "hidden disabilities" to
act out in public in ways that seem totally inappropriate for
thier age. rushing to judgement is a poor idea. might be the
easiest thing for you to do, but it's less than helpful. maybe
offer to hold the parent's place in line (if it's a long one)
while they try to calm thier kid, or offer to get other
obnoxious judgemental types to back off while the parent tries
to solve the issue (especially helpful in the case of an older
child having a meltdown).

lee
--
war is peace
freedom is slavery
ignorance is strength
1984-George Orwell

In article , enigma says...

Banty wrote in
:

If she's getting a LOT of icy stares for bad behavior in a
child of an age where bad behavior is pretty much a given,
perhaps she's taking him to venues that really shouldn't
have a disruptive kid, and/or isn't moving him quickly to a
appropriate area when he does act up. Something to
consider.

i don't know about 3 year olds suspected of having ADHD, but
i do know that 3 year olds with ASD or sensory issues can have
really over-the-top, spectacularly uncontrolable meltdowns.
they are way more than the average 3 year old tantrum & i can
see (have seen actually) the icy stares as the parent tries to
cope with it.
not unsurprisingly, meltdowns tend to happen exactly when you
*can't* quickly remove the kid, like waiting in a checkout
line with something you *need* to buy. otherwise, i'm sure the
parent would be removing the kid from the source of
overstimulation/conflict as fast as humanly possible. it's not
like we enjoy inflictng meltdowns on other people.

Oh I absolutely understand (or as well as I can not having been in your
situation.)

I'm just saying it's something to *consider*. Which may mean "hmmm, no I really
take whatever measure I can to not do that, so it's not the case".

another thing to note is that, while coping mechanisms do
tend to improve somewhat as the kid ages, it is still
possible/not uncommon for a kid with "hidden disabilities" to
act out in public in ways that seem totally inappropriate for
thier age. rushing to judgement is a poor idea. might be the
easiest thing for you to do, but it's less than helpful. maybe
offer to hold the parent's place in line (if it's a long one)
while they try to calm thier kid, or offer to get other
obnoxious judgemental types to back off while the parent tries
to solve the issue (especially helpful in the case of an older
child having a meltdown).


OK, again, not saying that anyone in particular is not being as considerate as
they reasonably can. But sometimes judgement is an outcome of the pain and
frustration that others experience as a result of this too. I think
oftentimes they're not thinking "oooo loook at that awful ill-behaved evul kid
*I'm* better parent than she is harrrumph!". It can be more like "owwwww my
EARS! Oh there it goes AGAIN! My nerves are just jangled. Damn! I was calmly
and pleasantly considering which dress to get for that evening occassion. Now
I'm feeling riled and just want to get out of here. WHY does that have to
happen!" Those folks are human too, you know.

Banty

In article ,
Banty wrote:

In article ,
Chookie
says...

In article ,
Anonymama wrote:

One of the many issues I'm dealing with right now, as we try to figure
out why my three-year-old has ADHD-type behavior, is other parents. I'm
really, really, really tired of disapproving glares and unsolicited
advice from strangers. I try to let it roll off my back, but sometimes
-- especially if they're people I see often, e.g. at the playground -- I
feel the need to say something.
snip
On second thought, I think I'll just start slapping people when my son
isn't looking. It would make _me_ feel lots better...

LOL, but it would be hard to cure your son of the habit later -- because he
IS
looking!

TBH I find it strange that people shoot disapproving glares at you because
your 3yo is screaming. Don't lots of kids that age have tanties? Secondly,
I've usually found it pretty obvious when 'bad behaviour' arises from a
disability, and I don't think I'm terribly perceptive. Perhaps these
unpleasant people are just really, really thick?

I'd be inclined to look the helpful hints brigade straight in the eye and
say:
"As a matter of fact I have 3 specialist appointments to assess him in the
next month/ 4 specialists working on his specific difficulties," or whatever
is currently going on. Keep looking them in the eye until you see the light
dawn, then walk off. You might feel this is too much like telling strangers
your private business, but from what I can see, every parent of a disabled
child becomes an activist, and this could be your starting point.

Erg. I just have this aversion to any idea of folks *explaining* themselves
to
*stangers* for stuff like this. Explanations aren't owed.

It occurs to me, though, that it is a two-way street.

If she's getting a LOT of icy stares for bad behavior in a child of an age
where
bad behavior is pretty much a given, perhaps she's taking him to venues that
really shouldn't have a disruptive kid, and/or isn't moving him quickly to a
appropriate area when he does act up. Something to consider.

Banty


Or maybe not.

When I lived in New England, I saw lots more of the "disapproving glare"
sorts of thing than I do here in California.

I remember one incident especially: in a grocery store check out line,
a child who was somewhere around 3 started to ask for things he couldn't
have, escalated to "I NEED that!" and began to tantrum. Fortunately,
there were two adults (Mom and Grandma, I suspect) and one of them
removed him from the store while the other finished paying for the
groceries. I had noticed the check out clerk and bagger BOTH giving the
"disapproving glare" thing, and when the family was gone, one turned to
the other and said (with a sniff of disapproval), "If he were MY kid,
I'd give him what he REALLY needs." Having felt the adults had dealt
with the child appropriately, I asked, "And what would THAT be?" They
informed me that clearly what that child needed was a good spanking --
he was FAR to old to be behaving that badly in public.

(For what it's worth, I gave them my opinion, both of the parents'
handling of the child, of their opinion that smacking the kid would have
helped, and of their judgementalism . . .)

Now, this was a fairly large 3 year old -- I base my estimate of his age
on his speech pattern, his interaction with the adults (I had seen them
several times while I was shopping) and on his behavior. It's possible
he was older, but not very mature. But even if he WAS 4 or 5, his
behavior was not out of the norm for an occassional public tantrum.
--
Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care

Yeah....! My son's an Aspie, not ADHD, but we sometimes get the same
kind of stuff.

There's nothing I can do about funny looks, but when people make
inappropriate remarks to me I have learnt to say "Thank you for your
help" in a tone of voice that would freeze Hell. :-) I might also tell
my son (afterwards, in private) that the adult was being rude.

When I don't want to give offense, another strategy I sometimes use is
to *praise* my son enthusiastically for doing something that other
parents would take for granted. That often gets the message across.

Good luck,

Cailleach

Anonymama wrote:
One of the many issues I'm dealing with right now, as we try to figure
out why my three-year-old has ADHD-type behavior, is other parents.
I'm really, really, really tired of disapproving glares and
unsolicited advice from strangers. I try to let it roll off my back,
but sometimes -- especially if they're people I see often, e.g. at
the playground -- I feel the need to say something.

What I want to say is "**** off, we're doing the best we can," but
that isn't really modeling calm behavior, is it? Instead I find
myself saying "thank you" and walking away (screaming child in my
arms).

Is there a polite way to say "please don't judge my child by the way
your placid lump of a child behaves"? Or "not all disabilities are
visible, as you should know, you idiot"? Or "I spend every waking
moment dealing with this, please don't act like I'm the worst parent
you've ever seen"?

I particularly like the first response and think you should use that one
whenever it's warranted!

The third one is probably the most polite but still unnecessary (unless your
child has just committed a social solecism such as whacking theirs over the
head).


On second thought, I think I'll just start slapping people when my son
isn't looking. It would make _me_ feel lots better...

Yep.

I've been blessed with children who've rarely been difficult to handle in
public but my younger brother is autistic so I have many memories of his
public meltdowns and the effects they had on bystanders. I developed a
bloody-minded attitude about it and it's meant I rarelyy make any judgement
about other people's seemingly 'undisciplined' kids unless I think the
parent is actually ignoring the child's behaviour to the point where it is
dangerous for him or other children around him.

You know you're doing your best and you don't owe anyone an explanation but
the occasional calm or even exasperated "save your comment until you've
walked a mile in my shoes" is a fair enough response if someone is rude
enough to criticise you. And if it makes you feel better to be rude back? Go
for it - I'm sure you could do with the catharsis just now - wherever it
comes from. (But no hitting! ) )

Tai

In article ,
"Tracey" wrote:


BTW, are you having him looked at by an occupational therapist doing a
sensory processing evaluation? After a number of years of awful behavior
and terrifying problems with my child, we finally got a therapist that said
to me, this looks like a sensory processing issue. The OT agreed with that
after talking to my kid and looking at a long evaluation that I filled out.
Now that we have OT on a regular basis, my kidlet has settled down a lot
(though she still is quite challenging).

I don't know yet for sure what's happening. We're trying to have him
evaluated by special services by our local public school system; he's
also going on the waiting list at a local (very good) hospital for
evaluation.
--
Sara
accompanied by TK, number two, due in April of 2006

In article om,
wrote:


For unsolicited advice (especially those who suggested snake oil
cures): "I'll mention it to one of the three highly trained
specialists who work with him. I'm sure they'll want to know about
such a wonderful, non-FDA approved product."

For nasty looks and comments: "Thank you for noticing my son has a
disability. Not everyone notices that not all disabilities are
visible." (said with a sweet, very fake smile) The other one I used
(if the other person had one of those 'placid lump' children with them)
was: "You've obviously had success working with a disabled child.
Would you be willing to help me with mine?" The reply invariably was,
"But my child's not disabled." At that point, I'd shoot back, "Well,
mine *is*, so please don't pass judgement on him or me. Thanks."

Yeah, they were snarky replies....but I just got to the point where as
much as I don't like being rude to people, I no longer cared. They
obviously didn't care about me or my child, after all.

I like your snarky replies (and all the others I've heard -- please
excuse me if I don't reply to every post).


And Sara....I will tell you this: It *does* get better. It might not
tomorrow. It might not for years. But it *will*.

Thanks for that. I'm trying to keep three goals in mind: tomorrow, next
April (when #2 is due), and two or three years from now (when my son
starts kindergarten).

I used to despair that my son (who was also academically gifted) was so
impacted that he wouldn't be able to manage even a 'you want fries with
that' job. Today, he's a sophomore majoring in mechanical engineering
in a selective university, living in a suite with 3 other guys,
managing getting around a major city alone. He's doing well
academically and most important of all, he's *happy*.

Leah
Mom to Stephen, 19 and Daniel, 15
--
Sara
accompanied by TK, number two, due in April of 2006

In article ,
Chookie wrote:


TBH I find it strange that people shoot disapproving glares at you because
your 3yo is screaming. Don't lots of kids that age have tanties? Secondly,
I've usually found it pretty obvious when 'bad behaviour' arises from a
disability, and I don't think I'm terribly perceptive. Perhaps these
unpleasant people are just really, really thick?

Yes. Exactly. Or they haven't spent much time with kids, or their kids
are much older and the parents have forgotten how things can be.

I'd be inclined to look the helpful hints brigade straight in the eye and
say:
"As a matter of fact I have 3 specialist appointments to assess him in the
next month/ 4 specialists working on his specific difficulties," or whatever
is currently going on. Keep looking them in the eye until you see the light
dawn, then walk off. You might feel this is too much like telling strangers
your private business, but from what I can see, every parent of a disabled
child becomes an activist, and this could be your starting point.

I suppose it's always possible that the helpful hinters are trying, in a
rather clumsy way, to be sympathetic, but you'd probably know that by their
manner.

Yeah -- sometimes they are. But sometimes they obviously want to let me
know that they don't approve of us.
--
Sara
accompanied by TK, number two, due in April of 2006