How to deal with 7 year old?

"Kat" wrote in message
...
He doesn't go to the school directly in our neighbourhood. The kids in
his class live all over this side of the city - very, very few kids in his
class live somewhat close to the school or to us. Almost all of his class
takes the school buses to the school because it's not just the community
school. To have someone from his class come here after school, it would
mean that the other parent(s) would have to give the school permission to
NOT send their child on the bus and that parent would either have to pick
their child up from school or I'd have to make arrangements with the
parent and school and bus to take their child from school - or the parent
would need to bring their child here after school/I'd have to go to the
house to pick the child up... Then deal with getting the kid home after
supper.
And quite frankly, I am glad he goes to a separate school and NOT the
community school that everyone else around here goes to.

I think you need to find a way to set up playdates with his classmates. It
could really help change his social circle. My DS also goes to a school
outside the area and I know the challenges to planning playdates where one
parent has to drive, but it can be worth it. Besides, kids want to feel
like they have friends at school. They don't usually feel they are truly
friends until they see each other outside of school.

"Banty" wrote in message
...
In article , Jeff says...

Kat wrote:
He takes off and disappears often. He'll take off to the store 2 or 3
blocks away when I had told him he's not allowed to go to the store on
his
own OR with other 7 year old friends. He's taken off to the park, and
like
the store, it's a couple blocks away, across a busy, busy road and a
place I
have specifically said he may not go alone (or with other 7 year olds)
He
does not go by himself. It's ONLY with these other kids, and I've seen
that
the other kids have parents that just don't care where their kids are.

Ding Ding Ding.

We have a winner!

If it's only with these other kids, he is not allowed to see the other
kids at all. That should at least greatly help the problem.

Which, in practical terms, means he does not go outside unless Mom or a
relative
is with him.

Sucks; he'd be underfoot all the time, but that's how it is. I've been
there.

As was suggested by Rosalie, he'll need to have activities arranged or
whatever
to fillt he time. And I'd move, seriously. This situation will make it
very
hard to bring up a kid.

Banty

For the moving part, that's always easier said than done. I've put in an
application to transfer (not because of DS or anything) but now I have to
sit back and play the waiting game. I can't go somewhere if there's nowhere
available to move to. Telling the housing company that I want to move also
because of the other kids in the neighbourhood isn't going to cut it. I
also am aware that all these places that are "rent-geared-to-income" can be
pretty much the same story.
I can't afford to move out of these places. It's just not possible. If I
leave the housing, I give up on my subsidized (and at least affordable)
rent. I just can't do that, especially since at this point I am NOT able to
work or anything like that. I would NEVER be able to afford the rent around
here as it's been out of this housing complex, nevermind the cost of food,
bills, just living expenses. Here is the only way I'm able to actually have
a chance to make it.
The lady I am dealing with about my transfer, however, suggested I apply for
another 3 bedroom. Main reason I put in a transfer request was because DDs
CAN'T share a room. (this is a whole other story and irrelevant at this
point) and with yet another, I need the 1 extra bedroom at least. I am
going to call and ask if I can transfer to a 3 bedroom right now, instead of
the 4, then put in another application to be on the list for a 4 bedroom. I
don't know if I can (I need to call and ask) but I had thought of this just
the other day and thought I'd at least try and see if that was possible.
We need to move, but I am fairly limited on my options.

In article , Kat says...


He doesn't go to the school directly in our neighbourhood. The kids in his
class live all over this side of the city - very, very few kids in his class
live somewhat close to the school or to us. Almost all of his class takes
the school buses to the school because it's not just the community school.
To have someone from his class come here after school, it would mean that
the other parent(s) would have to give the school permission to NOT send
their child on the bus and that parent would either have to pick their child
up from school or I'd have to make arrangements with the parent and school
and bus to take their child from school - or the parent would need to bring
their child here after school/I'd have to go to the house to pick the child
up... Then deal with getting the kid home after supper.
And quite frankly, I am glad he goes to a separate school and NOT the
community school that everyone else around here goes to.

More reasons to move.

Banty

Kat wrote:
Last night, there was a HUGE explosion.
DS came home from school. He wanted to go play outside right away. I made
a deal with him that he can play for a bit, but when supper's
ready, he comes in, has supper (obviously) and then he must do his
homework right after supper before he's allowed to do anything (go
back outside, watch TV, computer, whatever) He said that was fine.
So, I make supper and while I'm outside at the BBQ, I call for him. And I
call. And I call. Supper's on the table, I go out and call
again. We're eating supper and go figure, I call again and he's
nowhere to be found. At this point, I am more than just ****ed off. He's
not supposed to be anywhere that he can't hear me or see the
house. Apparently he's decided to do as he pleases.
We have supper, finish, and I call him again.

Kat, my son is exactly the same age as yours to the month. There's no way
we'd have sat down to dinner without him at that age - or considerably
older, for that matter. We'd have all waited and those old enough would
searched for him until he was found. Then he'd have been grounded and not
allowed to play outside unsupervised until there was a marked improvement in
his behaviour. It's possible I am a little on the overprotective side or
our street may have heavier traffic generally than yours and we do live
right by a creek but I wouldn't be comfortable with the amount of freedom
your son has to range off your property at his age.

That said, I know you are having a rough time and I know its hard to find
the energy to be consistent with your boundary setting and discipline
techniques.

Half an hour or so after supper, he's walking around just outside the
yard. I tell him simply he needs to come in now. He's with about 3-4
other boys. He yells no at me. Once again, I just tell him he needs
to come in now. Once again, he's yelling at me, and quite frankly, I
could just about knock his block off. Last time, I tell him it's
time to come in. He again yells no and comes in the yard, grabs a
football and walks out of the yard. Now I'm ****ed off big time. I
basically say he's inside NOW or there's going to be trouble.

Nope, there is no asking or telling him again at this point, there is going
and getting him. I ask once. I ask again and start counting and on the rare
occasions I get to three I'm already moving towards the child I'm calling. I
think you need to start moving on the first no from him from now on since
you know he's going to escalate until you're both furious. A disrespectful
tone and rude words require immediate action, otherwise you are teaching him
it is alright to be rude to you.

Others have given you details of the techniques they use but some of your
son's behaviour must relate both to the stressful environment he's been
growing up in as well as the fact his father has moved out. He sounds
absolutely miserable to me, poor wee lad. Is family counselling a
possibility for you and your children? How is his school work and behaviour
at school? Could you organise your other sons to spend more time with him
having fun, generally?


He
runs away from me, ends up throwing the ball at me to try and hit me
and storms off in the house, yelling and shouting, even swearing at
me. Really, I've had it with him. His behaviour has NOT been even close
to acceptable for some time, but lately it's getting worse. At one
point I DRAGGED him to the police station and told the cops there
that I've had it, I'm about ready to give up and they need to give me
some sort of resources before I lose it with him. They gave me a
useless list of "resources" that got me nowhere.
I really CAN'T take his behaviour anymore.
He takes off and disappears often. He'll take off to the store 2 or 3
blocks away when I had told him he's not allowed to go to the store
on his own OR with other 7 year old friends. He's taken off to the
park, and like the store, it's a couple blocks away, across a busy,
busy road and a place I have specifically said he may not go alone
(or with other 7 year olds) He does not go by himself. It's ONLY
with these other kids, and I've seen that the other kids have parents
that just don't care where their kids are. He's doing nothing but talking
back. And most of the time it stems
from him not being able to do something HE wants to do that the other
kids are doing. I'm really sick and tired of it.
Last night, after he finally came in (and I had gone out of the yard
to drag him in, which is when he was running away and throwing the
ball at me) he was yelling and swearing and you name it. Then he
ended up saying that it's MY fault that he doesn't have a dad, which
is, for the most part, untrue. I felt like yelling at him that he doesn't
have a proper dad because
his dad is a drug addict, selfish, immature, irresponsible and
self-centered. Which is true.
I can't and won't force N to stop by to see the kids. Or help with
supporting or raising them. I can't force him to be a proper father,
as he should be. I will NOT have him here on drugs or have him come
one day, no word for 2 weeks, come another day, basically come and go
as he pleases... Tell the kids he's stopping by (or not tell the kids
and just keep it to myself thinking he'll be here) and he doesn't
come. I'm at the point, though, where I just CAN'T take this behaviour,
and
from a 7 year old. I'm getting to the point where I feel like I'm
just about ready to drop him off at the police station, tell them to
do something with him because I can't and leave.
I can't handle his yelling and swearing, taking off and
disappearing... Doing as he pleases when he pleases. And when he
doesn't get his way, he'll destroy things just to try and **** me
off... Like dig holes in the wall, write all over the floor in his
room, throw toys around, rip clothes out of his closet and drawers...
you name it. I'm really at the end of my rope... Is there ANYTHING to try
doing??

I think he needs more attention of the positive kind. That's got to be
difficult for you to arrange right now but do you have parents who could
help out on weekends or after school, just to spend time with him? Does he
have any nice friends he could play with whose parents like to keep their
children and visiting friends within earshot?




And also, it's not like he doesn't get things... He's in sports
(thankfully the season is coming to an end in the next couple weeks)
and has more than enough. Taking away fun things or priviledges
seems to be useless. I do comment on good behaviour - tell him it
makes me happy when he does this, makes me proud when he does that.
Nothing seems to be working.

"Kat" wrote:

I don't know he's actually gone until after the fact. It seems to take him
only a minute to just disappear. I can't go off searching the neighbourhood

It sounds like you are not paying attention to him. Why are you
letting him get out of your sight?

for him. He's stayed inside when I find out he's taken off somewhere he
shouldn't be. There have been a few times that I've dragged the girls with
me to go look for him. It doesn't make sense to wake up a pair of sleeping
preschoolers from a nap because someone has taken off... Wake them up to
drag them around to go look for him is silly.

Be that as it may, that's what you may have to do. When dd#3 was
four and in pre-school, I had to drag her little brother with me to
take her and pick her up every morning and every afternoon.

But I've had another idea. Why not have him go to your mother's house
after school instead of coming home? My kids used to go various
places on the bus after school. One day a week they went to a 4H
meeting,and after we moved here, they went to the farm on the bus
after school.

"dejablues" wrote in message
...

"Kat" wrote in message
...
Have you asked the school for help?

No, mainly because this doesn't seem to be an issue at all at school.
Just at home. I figured there's no point in telling all the dirty stuff
to the school. I thought by doing so, that might give him a bad name or
something with the school/teachers. He's fine and dandy at school... I
didn't and don't see any reason to air dirty laundry to them when it
doesn't seem to be even a tiny issue at school.

I have no idea what the schools are like where you are, but here the
schools are often the first line of defense with kids and families that
are troubled. The fact that your son is able to hold it together at
school and falls to pieces at home speaks volumes. School might be a safe
haven for him, since his home life is a mess. Teachers, counselors, and
school administrators are professionals, and they are bound by certain
rules of conduct and confidentiality. And, their services are free.
What I've heard is that it's the opposite-that children fall apart at home
because they know they're supported and loved unconditionally there, while
at school they're a little more restrained because they don't have that
level of confidence.

It can also be simply that school has more obvious limits and stated rules,
and if so, knowing what works for him at school may help at home.

There's always more than one possibility in a situation-but I do agree that
talking it over with the other people who see your child is not a bad idea.

Kat wrote:

I'm at the point, though, where I just CAN'T take this behaviour, and from a
7 year old. I'm getting to the point where I feel like I'm just about ready
to drop him off at the police station, tell them to do something with him
because I can't and leave.

I have a 7yo too, and he can get mouthy and I know how that can push
buttons.

This situation is very extreme, very serious, and very complicated. It
is going no where but down hill and in a few years it will be a real
crisis. I suggest you get professional help for him, and you. Some
ideas are school counselors, community mental health centers,
pediatrician, parenting classes, and even private counseling. If he is
on state insurance it might cover that. Even social services will have
resources but, in your situation, you may not want to contact them. It
could get a little sticky. If you have a Big Friend/Little Friend type
program sign him up. They can be so beneficial for boys in need of a
good role model. I'd keep him really busy in activities he enjoys.
Don't feel bad if your parents need to pay for it or if you need to wake
your little kids up to ferry him around. It is worth it. He needs it.
He is still young enough that you have a thread of control but it is
fraying fast.

--

Nikki

"Rosalie B." wrote in message
...
"Kat" wrote:

I don't know he's actually gone until after the fact. It seems to take
him
only a minute to just disappear. I can't go off searching the
neighbourhood

It sounds like you are not paying attention to him. Why are you
letting him get out of your sight?

Not letting him out of my sight is not that easy. I can't drop everything
or keep him inside with me or beside me 24/7. I have been trying to find
various things for him to do when he's home... Be it football, which he
leaves for shortly after he gets home from school, we take bike rides to the
public library not far from here after supper fairly often (we try at least
once a week, sometimes twice, but going daily is not an option), walking to
the store or park when possible - partly to get out and partly to
(hopefully) let him see that we can and do go to the store/park - places
he's taken off to when he wasn't supposed to, finding various
things/activities to do with grandparents, etc. This weekend I was going to
take him to that "Body Worlds" exhibit here, but after finding out the cost,
and thinking that my dad would truly enjoy this exhibit, I asked my dad if
he'd like to go (again, partly to offset the cost to go for me and partly
because my dad really would like this) and turns out that my dad and DS will
be going this weekend.
Just find that I've been looking for things to do. Some activities are
out - like swimming, for one, is out of the question for the most part
unless I can find someone to go with me (I am uncomfortable with 2 girls
that don't swim and DS who does swim but not a marathon swimmer and still
only 7 and needs 100% supervision while swimming)

for him. He's stayed inside when I find out he's taken off somewhere he
shouldn't be. There have been a few times that I've dragged the girls
with
me to go look for him. It doesn't make sense to wake up a pair of
sleeping
preschoolers from a nap because someone has taken off... Wake them up to
drag them around to go look for him is silly.

Be that as it may, that's what you may have to do. When dd#3 was
four and in pre-school, I had to drag her little brother with me to
take her and pick her up every morning and every afternoon.

But I've had another idea. Why not have him go to your mother's house
after school instead of coming home? My kids used to go various
places on the bus after school. One day a week they went to a 4H
meeting,and after we moved here, they went to the farm on the bus
after school.

She works and isn't retiring age for a few years yet. She's also on the
other side of the city from us/the school. Same with my grandma - opposite
side of the city, although she doesn't work. The bus system works for those
on the school buses are from certain areas of the city. If out of the
school's bus area, they do not get the option of the bus.
There is ads I've seen for an after school/daycare alternative. It's a
martial arts place (I believe tae kwon do) that says they offer a bus from a
child's school after school, or can be dropped off by an existing bus from
the school. I've been thinking about this quite a bit, and I know the cost
would be out of my price range, but at the end of football I had planned to
talk to my mom and ask her what she thinks about it... Even she if she'd be
willing/able to go even half on it with me. My parents do often help out
with costs if I don't have it. They do have it, especially since my
brothers and I are grown, and for something for the kids, my parents don't
usually have any issues at all. I have been thinking that something like
this might be an idea. It offers something to do with time, some discipline
and a variety of socialization.

"Nikki" wrote in message ...
Kat wrote:

I'm at the point, though, where I just CAN'T take this behaviour, and
from a 7 year old. I'm getting to the point where I feel like I'm just
about ready to drop him off at the police station, tell them to do
something with him because I can't and leave.

I have a 7yo too, and he can get mouthy and I know how that can push
buttons.

This situation is very extreme, very serious, and very complicated. It is
going no where but down hill and in a few years it will be a real crisis.
I suggest you get professional help for him, and you. Some ideas are
school counselors, community mental health centers, pediatrician,
parenting classes, and even private counseling. If he is on state
insurance it might cover that. Even social services will have resources
but, in your situation, you may not want to contact them. It could get a
little sticky. If you have a Big Friend/Little Friend type program sign
him up. They can be so beneficial for boys in need of a good role model.
I'd keep him really busy in activities he enjoys. Don't feel bad if your
parents need to pay for it or if you need to wake your little kids up to
ferry him around. It is worth it. He needs it. He is still young enough
that you have a thread of control but it is fraying fast.

I did a quick search and found that we have "Big Brothers and Big Sisters"
in the city. I've heard of this before. I believe N actually had a "Big
Brother" when he was younger through his school (ha... some benefit THAT
apparently did) but I just called, since it was mentioned and I thought of
it. Left a message and was told that I would get a call back as soon as
possible.
It's hard to find activities, but we have been going for bike rides to the
library not far away, walking to the store/park, I've been trying to find
various activities to do that are possible to do. My dad said he would take
DS to an exhibit this weekend. Finding things is a little bit of a
challenge.

Kat wrote:
"Rosalie B." wrote in message

It is all very well not to want to get into the reason that his father
is no longer in his life, but at this point it either has to be
discussed with him or you will have to avail yourself of one of those
'useless' resources so that he can talk to someone else about it.

When N was here that one day, DS came home from school and threw his bag
inside and went to go outside to play. I stopped him (because N was here)
and DS made it clear that he'd much rather go out than stay in and he didn't
even say hi.
When I asked him about it, just casually brought it up, he told me he didn't
care to stay hi or stick around because he didn't want to. He told me (this
wasn't in anger or anything at all) that he doesn't want N to live here and
is glad he's not here. I asked him why. He said because N is mean to him
all the time. I figured that was fair enough for him to say or feel and the
topic was just sort of dropped. To a 7 year old, though, "mean" can be that
he's not allowed to do something or can't have something. I'm mean if he
can't eat a box of cookies. I'm mean if he needs to do homework, clean his
room, whatever. From what he said, I do take it that he's just ****ed off
with his dad.

Just because he says he's glad his father is out of
the house doesn't mean that he isn't very conflicted about it
inside, and just because the acting out started before his
father left doesn't mean he wasn't/isn't reacting to the
tensions that have clearly been in play for quite some time
now. A 7yo can't articulate a lot of these feelings, at least
without some help, so you can't really afford to accept what
he says totally at face value. It may just be his bravado
talking.

Best wishes,
Ericka