Obsessive behavior in 4 year old

Hi All,

We've got a problem that has been escalating for a while now. First, a
bit of history: for the last, oh, two years or so, James and Daddy
have a Saturday ritual that involves going to the toy store where
James picks out a toy. These have often been things that exist in a
collection like Thomas trains, Power Ranger figures, Bionicles, Ninja
Turtles, etc. So, James typically looks forward to finishing off the
series as the weeks go by. There have often been issues of James
wanting more than one toy on these trips, or asking to get one during
the week, but that has all seemed very "normal" and he is easily
convinced that this is a Saturday thing with Daddy and he gets one
only, or has to wait. Not a big deal.

Lately, this has been turning into a big deal. James has been
absolutely obsessed with finishing off a collection, all at once, and
*immediately*. At times, he literally can not think or talk of
anything else, other than the figures that he needs. Dad was out of
town last week and left 2 bionicles as surprises for James, and
literally the FIRST thing James said was "Now I need the white one,
the blue one and the green one!" Not any thanks, not any "WOW!" but an
immediate calculation of what he needs next. And he could NOT let it
go. After I calmly tried to tell him about the usual "routine" and
said that he should try to just forget about the other ones, and play
with the ones he already has, he really did try. A few minutes later
he threw his arms around my neck and was crying that he tried, but he
just could NOT get Bionicles out of his head. "Bionicles, bionicles,
bionicles - that's all I can think about Mommy!" It was heartbreaking.
I finally got him calmed down, but it was very disturbing that he
really tried, but could not let this go (and he was clearly upset that
he couldn't let it go). A few minutes later he was fine, but this
lasted for a good 15 minutes or so.

Now, he's determined to get some new GI Joe stuff. He got into a
screaming fight yesterday with his playdate buddy about how HE was
going to get the GI Joe, NOT his friend - over and over again. He just
can't let this stuff go - we hear about this constantly, all week
long.

So, what to do? My instinct is to ditch the Saturday ritual. I have
felt that it was a BAD idea from the start (I think it's teaching a
bad lesson - you get toys *weekly*, James has no real concept of gifts
being a special thing since he essentially gets them all the time, and
we have more toys in our house than ToysRUs, etc.), and now that it is
clearly causing James emotional pain, I think that it should be
eliminated. Daddy, however, thinks this is a bigger issue, and rather
than eliminate the Saturday ritual (which he is VERY against), thinks
we should talk to someone (a professional) on how to teach James to
deal with his obsessions, etc. He thinks that treating the Saturday is
simply treating a symptom, and not the problem. While I think that's
overkill, I am happy to go along with it. But I still think it's silly
(and somewhat cruel to James) to keep the Saturday ritual, since it is
clearly a problem, symptom or not.

So, am I overreacting about the Saturday ritual? Is it a cute, fun,
Daddy-son thing, and I'm being overly stubborn about it? Does this
obsessiveness about the collections, and of "living for Saturday"
(literally, right after he gets the Saturday toy, he starts talking
about what he's going to get NEXT Saturday, and we hear about it ALL
week long, over and over again) seem normal and fine? Or is this
potentially a bigger issue that we should see someone about?

We are going to talk to his pediatrician about this - I'd just like to
get some "real-life" experience from the board as well.

Thanks,
m.
James, 4 yrs.
Lauren, 1 yr.

Michelle Spina wrote:


So, am I overreacting about the Saturday ritual? Is it a cute, fun,
Daddy-son thing, and I'm being overly stubborn about it? Does this
obsessiveness about the collections, and of "living for Saturday"
(literally, right after he gets the Saturday toy, he starts talking
about what he's going to get NEXT Saturday, and we hear about it ALL
week long, over and over again) seem normal and fine? Or is this
potentially a bigger issue that we should see someone about?


I'm with you. I would cut out the Saturday thing.
I would also remove most toys--not in a punitive way! I
would just explain that there are too many toys around to
deal with and we're going to put some in the garage/attic/
whatever for later and we'll rotate toys around. Leave him
with only a few toys. Then, keep the Saturday date with
Daddy, but make it about events, not toys. At first, go
only to noncommercial establishments so that there's not
a fit at the museum gift shop. Have a really fun day--make
it very attractive, just no gifts.
I think that many people vastly underestimate
how damaging it is to have too many toys. We're as
guilty as the next person of toy overkill, but it really
is damaging. I think your whole issue could easily be
attributable to the weekly toy trip. Having a special
ritual with Daddy is a HUGELY powerful thing. The time
spent with Daddy alone makes it of tremendous importance,
and you're tying that huge importance with toy buying.
I think it would totally be overkill to start counseling
or something over this when there's a huge, obvious thing
you could try changing before that.
After a while, when things settle down, you can
reintroduce the toy buying, but NOT as the special thing
Daddy does with him. Reintroduce it with *HIM* buying
his own toys with his allowance money (with appropriate
money management). Meanwhile, encourage others to give
him time gifts (experiences, trips, etc.) rather than
toys so that he's not always associating getting toys
with people's expression of affection.

Best wishes,
Ericka

Michelle Spina wrote:


So, am I overreacting about the Saturday ritual? Is it a cute, fun,
Daddy-son thing, and I'm being overly stubborn about it? Does this
obsessiveness about the collections, and of "living for Saturday"
(literally, right after he gets the Saturday toy, he starts talking
about what he's going to get NEXT Saturday, and we hear about it ALL
week long, over and over again) seem normal and fine? Or is this
potentially a bigger issue that we should see someone about?


I don't think you're overreacting. Just on a practical level, what are
you going to do when Lauren starts bringing home *her* Saturday ritual
gits too? (No, no, take your head out of the gas oven.)

I think it's great for children to have a special weekly time with each
parent, but I also think tying it to buying something *every time* is a
bad idea. Personally, I don't know that there's anything abnormal about
James' behavior - IMO the abnormal thing was that he got a gift every
Saturday.

Clisby

"Michelle Spina" wrote in message
om...
Hi All,

We've got a problem that has been escalating for a while now. First, a
bit of history: for the last, oh, two years or so, James and Daddy
have a Saturday ritual that involves going to the toy store where
James picks out a toy. These have often been things that exist in a
collection like Thomas trains, Power Ranger figures, Bionicles, Ninja
Turtles, etc. So, James typically looks forward to finishing off the
series as the weeks go by. There have often been issues of James
wanting more than one toy on these trips, or asking to get one during
the week, but that has all seemed very "normal" and he is easily
convinced that this is a Saturday thing with Daddy and he gets one
only, or has to wait. Not a big deal.

Lately, this has been turning into a big deal. James has been
absolutely obsessed with finishing off a collection, all at once, and
*immediately*. At times, he literally can not think or talk of
anything else, other than the figures that he needs. Dad was out of
town last week and left 2 bionicles as surprises for James, and
literally the FIRST thing James said was "Now I need the white one,
the blue one and the green one!" Not any thanks, not any "WOW!" but an
immediate calculation of what he needs next. And he could NOT let it
go. After I calmly tried to tell him about the usual "routine" and
said that he should try to just forget about the other ones, and play
with the ones he already has, he really did try. A few minutes later
he threw his arms around my neck and was crying that he tried, but he
just could NOT get Bionicles out of his head. "Bionicles, bionicles,
bionicles - that's all I can think about Mommy!" It was heartbreaking.
I finally got him calmed down, but it was very disturbing that he
really tried, but could not let this go (and he was clearly upset that
he couldn't let it go). A few minutes later he was fine, but this
lasted for a good 15 minutes or so.

Now, he's determined to get some new GI Joe stuff. He got into a
screaming fight yesterday with his playdate buddy about how HE was
going to get the GI Joe, NOT his friend - over and over again. He just
can't let this stuff go - we hear about this constantly, all week
long.

So, what to do? My instinct is to ditch the Saturday ritual. I have
felt that it was a BAD idea from the start (I think it's teaching a
bad lesson - you get toys *weekly*, James has no real concept of gifts
being a special thing since he essentially gets them all the time, and
we have more toys in our house than ToysRUs, etc.), and now that it is
clearly causing James emotional pain, I think that it should be
eliminated. Daddy, however, thinks this is a bigger issue, and rather
than eliminate the Saturday ritual (which he is VERY against), thinks
we should talk to someone (a professional) on how to teach James to
deal with his obsessions, etc. He thinks that treating the Saturday is
simply treating a symptom, and not the problem. While I think that's
overkill, I am happy to go along with it. But I still think it's silly
(and somewhat cruel to James) to keep the Saturday ritual, since it is
clearly a problem, symptom or not.

So, am I overreacting about the Saturday ritual? Is it a cute, fun,
Daddy-son thing, and I'm being overly stubborn about it? Does this
obsessiveness about the collections, and of "living for Saturday"
(literally, right after he gets the Saturday toy, he starts talking
about what he's going to get NEXT Saturday, and we hear about it ALL
week long, over and over again) seem normal and fine? Or is this
potentially a bigger issue that we should see someone about?

We are going to talk to his pediatrician about this - I'd just like to
get some "real-life" experience from the board as well.

Thanks,
m.
James, 4 yrs.
Lauren, 1 yr.

In my opinion, you are right on. There are a host of reasons, including the
ones you mention, that this particular ritual is not a good one. 4yo kids
are perfectly happy with time, they do not need new toys all the time. Play
grounds, walks and such would provide much more useful rituals.

On the obsessive thing... I think it is simply a matter of being given
something that he cannot handle not that he is particularly obsessive.

S

Michelle Spina wrote:

I'm winging it here...no real life experience so take it for what it is
worth...only something to add to the discussion ;-)

So, what to do? My instinct is to ditch the Saturday ritual. I have
felt that it was a BAD idea from the start (I think it's teaching a
bad lesson - you get toys *weekly*, James has no real concept of gifts
being a special thing since he essentially gets them all the time

I'm with you. Even more then the growing number of toys is that the act of
*getting* a toy is such an essential part of an important ritual and it is
done frequently and consistently. Every week without fail. The consistent
ritual with dad is wonderful but the essential part should be dad and not
the toy. I now that is/was the parental intent but they are entwined for
James so I'd try to change that.

Daddy, however, thinks this is a bigger issue, and rather
than eliminate the Saturday ritual (which he is VERY against), thinks
we should talk to someone (a professional) on how to teach James to
deal with his obsessions, etc.

You only mentioned the obsessive behavior with regards to getting toys. Is
obsessive over *everything* or is it just limited to toys. If toys
only...that speaks volumes.

So, am I overreacting about the Saturday ritual? Is it a cute, fun,
Daddy-son thing, and I'm being overly stubborn about it?

Might have been, but not anymore :-(

Does this
obsessiveness about the collections, and of "living for
Saturday"...........seem normal and fine?

Not to me.

Or is this
potentially a bigger issue that we should see someone about?

You might get some pointers as to how to turn it all around. Maybe dh would
get some pointers too...I'm guessing the professional would come in on the
side of changing the Sat. ritual but maybe not?!!!

Good luck!
--
Nikki
Mama to Hunter (4) and Luke (2)

wrote:

Personally, I don't know that there's anything abnormal about
James' behavior - IMO the abnormal thing was that he got a gift every
Saturday.

I would add in that age four is a typical age to get this kind of obsessive
behavior. I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with you or with him.
However if you feed into the obsession with a parenting practice that's not
working, you're at risk of it escalating beyond what is a normal four-year-old
thing.

My son goes out with his father every Saturday morning, too, but he generally
gets a bagel. That might be a material reward, but at least we don't have
bagels all over the house now ;-)

--Helen

In article ,
Clisby wrote:

Michelle Spina wrote:


So, am I overreacting about the Saturday ritual? Is it a cute, fun,
Daddy-son thing, and I'm being overly stubborn about it? Does this
obsessiveness about the collections, and of "living for Saturday"
(literally, right after he gets the Saturday toy, he starts talking
about what he's going to get NEXT Saturday, and we hear about it ALL
week long, over and over again) seem normal and fine? Or is this
potentially a bigger issue that we should see someone about?


I don't think you're overreacting. Just on a practical level, what are
you going to do when Lauren starts bringing home *her* Saturday ritual
gits too? (No, no, take your head out of the gas oven.)

I think it's great for children to have a special weekly time with each
parent, but I also think tying it to buying something *every time* is a
bad idea. Personally, I don't know that there's anything abnormal about
James' behavior - IMO the abnormal thing was that he got a gift every
Saturday.

Clisby


oh absolutely

the child has been very effectively taught the importance of being a
constant consumer -- that getting stuff is the most important thing

and this has been done by making it the centerpiece of his relationship
with Dad -- what could be more reinforcing that linking 'gimmee' values
with the wonderful value of time with Dad.

definitely bag this 'ritual' but thiing carefully about what can be
substituted -- e.g. Dad and son learning a new sport e.g. they start
going fishing, or racing bikes, or building stuff, or planning and going
on a camping trip - in other words introduce a new tradition that has
the potential for the same emotional power as buying stuff

In ,
Ericka Kammerer wrote:

* I'm with you. I would cut out the Saturday thing.
*I would also remove most toys--not in a punitive way! I


I agree. That being said, two things leap to mind. First of all, don't
take away special daddy weekend time. I would continue to have a special
daddy weekend ritual - just one that doesn't involve buying toys! Maybe he
could take special trips to go see the train station, or go to the
library, or whatever. My three year old currently likes to go to Starbucks
with daddy . The other thing that leaps to mind is to definitely follow
through with consulting with the pediatrician. For your son to be so
obsessed that it interferes with his ability to do other things is
possibly not normal. At least, I know that when dogs literally can't stop
doing one activity to the point where it interferes with other normal
behaviors, we call that a pathologic compulsion, and treat it accordingly.

--
hillary israeli vmd http://www.hillary.net
"uber vaccae in quattuor partes divisum est."
not-so-newly minted veterinarian-at-large

In article ,
"Nikki" wrote:


Daddy, however, thinks this is a bigger issue, and rather
than eliminate the Saturday ritual (which he is VERY against), thinks
we should talk to someone (a professional) on how to teach James to
deal with his obsessions, etc.

Dad needs to see that he has painted himself into the role as 'person
who buys me stuff' -- that the son values Dad for what he is bought
every week

is this REALLY what Dad wants in his relationship with his son?

If he's doing anything similar in any other part of his life, I'd talk
to the family doc. My middle kid has a very high functioning form of
autism - he falls into the non-verbal learning disability category.
Some kids with this (such as those with Aspergers Syndrome) are very
intelligent, and may not look at all like what you would think of as
autistic but develop real rituals and obsessions to the point of what
looks like nuttiness.

Our son was doing some really odd ritualized stuff and we thought he
might have the beginnings of obsessive compulsive disorder - for
example, he was obsessing about certain toys, how they had to be
arranged, how many times he rinsed and spit when brushed his teeth,
and if he couldn't follow his rituals he freaked. The doctor thought
it might be OCD (which kids CAN get) but when we were sent to a
specialist for proper assessment, it turned out to be it NLD.

Listen to your instincts.

Mary G.