grandparents and parents

Reading the car thread made me think on the issue of grandparents doing
things their own way. I am in accord with Ericka that if the kids are
hanging out with the grandparents, the grandparents should have the liberty
to use their judgement as they see fit. I would tend to see driving from
point A to point B such a part of our lives that restricting that is odd.
But when DO you feel compelled to speak out.

I can tell you two times we did. Backstory, I have GREAT in-laws. We have a
terrific relationship. When my oldest was a baby, they asked to have him one
day a week. We still paid daycare since it is hard to get a part time slot
for 4 days. ANd they travelled sometimes. But they wanted a relationship and
said fine.

There were two issues that they did so differently that I thought their way
was developmentally dangerous. When DS was 3, they decided I was not potty
training him. MIL started nagging all day long, making him kinda miserable
as if all the other cool stuff they used to do did not exist. EVERYTHING was
about potty. So DS quietly and calmly put his foot down. He knew what they
wanted him to do and he did not want to do it. He was not going to do it. So
FIL started guilt and shame and calling him names. I first discussed, but
when FIL was adamant that it was ridiculous that we weren't training him (as
far as they were concerned), I told him that the pediatrician HIGHLY
recommends what we are doing and NOT to use shaming tactics, and that I was
going to calmly insist that it stop. FIL hated it. But he did. Shortly after
that DS decided to be done with diapers. Done.

The other issue was around food. They decided he did not eat enough. He was
"picky" so they would nag, spoon feed him (this was later, at about 5 and 6
years of age!) to get one more bite into him, fetch what he wanted and if he
decided he wanted something else, fetched him that. The worst for me was the
nagging and the spoon feeding. The boy who liked milk just fine was given
chocolate "so he would drink it," fed junky crappy food. I let it ride, it
is just one day a week right? But then it started impacting his little
sister who has never had any compunction about eating. And it was impacting
him all the time. Got in an actual fight with FIL over this one (ending with
both of us yelling "You are gonna give him an eating disorder!" at the same
time. I told him plainly tihs is damaging to his natural mental and physical
development. The doc says he is at the top of the growth chart. His
fingernails and hair grow. He is active and energetic. We provide him with
many options to choose from. The nagging and carrying on has to stop. ANd he
did. To the degree that he is able.


Oh one other issue, DH had to keep showing him over and over again how to
install the car seat and the child into the car seat. But that was a matter
of about 4 days in which FIL was fully receptive to the instruction.

I think one of the reasons we were able to navigate those issues relatively
easily is that they would ask me things and I would say whatever your
judgement says. Do you think I should push him to nap? Whatever you think is
fine. Do you think it is ok to take him to outing X? Whatever you think is
fine.

It may also be that they are particularly nice folks!

Have these issues impacted any of you as well? Curious about your thoughts.

I've had some issues with both sets of grandparents. When my first was born,
she was a sick baby and required surgery at 2 months and then a liver
transplant at 7 months. My mom was afraid to take care of my daughter,
understandably so, because she required lots of medicine and a feeding tube.
So, my mom didn't have my first daughter for a long time, probably when she
was around 2 years old did things get stable enough for my mom to keep her.
My step MIL on the other hand was perfectly comfortable with the medicine
and feeding tube and had no problems keeping her overnight once in a while.
We did start to have issues with my step MIL due to my MIL being kind of a
weird person and had issues, so we cut ties and they didn't see the
grandkids until about a year ago. My mom believed in feeding the babies
really good so she tended to overfeed them, but I didn't have a problem with
it at all because DD1 needed to gain weight. My mom was a wonderful
grandmother and I wish that she was still alive to be able to continue in
their lives. I think it is really sad that new parents today don't let their
parents have more time with the grandkids, afterall it's not like they don't
have any experience.
--
Sue (mom to three girls)

"Stephanie" nothanks.nevergonedoit.com wrote in message
...
Reading the car thread made me think on the issue of grandparents doing
things their own way. I am in accord with Ericka that if the kids are
hanging out with the grandparents, the grandparents should have the
liberty
to use their judgement as they see fit. I would tend to see driving from
point A to point B such a part of our lives that restricting that is odd.
But when DO you feel compelled to speak out.

I can tell you two times we did. Backstory, I have GREAT in-laws. We have
a
terrific relationship. When my oldest was a baby, they asked to have him
one
day a week. We still paid daycare since it is hard to get a part time slot
for 4 days. ANd they travelled sometimes. But they wanted a relationship
and
said fine.

There were two issues that they did so differently that I thought their
way
was developmentally dangerous. When DS was 3, they decided I was not potty
training him. MIL started nagging all day long, making him kinda miserable
as if all the other cool stuff they used to do did not exist. EVERYTHING
was
about potty. So DS quietly and calmly put his foot down. He knew what they
wanted him to do and he did not want to do it. He was not going to do it.
So
FIL started guilt and shame and calling him names. I first discussed, but
when FIL was adamant that it was ridiculous that we weren't training him
(as
far as they were concerned), I told him that the pediatrician HIGHLY
recommends what we are doing and NOT to use shaming tactics, and that I
was
going to calmly insist that it stop. FIL hated it. But he did. Shortly
after
that DS decided to be done with diapers. Done.

The other issue was around food. They decided he did not eat enough. He
was
"picky" so they would nag, spoon feed him (this was later, at about 5 and
6
years of age!) to get one more bite into him, fetch what he wanted and if
he
decided he wanted something else, fetched him that. The worst for me was
the
nagging and the spoon feeding. The boy who liked milk just fine was given
chocolate "so he would drink it," fed junky crappy food. I let it ride, it
is just one day a week right? But then it started impacting his little
sister who has never had any compunction about eating. And it was
impacting
him all the time. Got in an actual fight with FIL over this one (ending
with
both of us yelling "You are gonna give him an eating disorder!" at the
same
time. I told him plainly tihs is damaging to his natural mental and
physical
development. The doc says he is at the top of the growth chart. His
fingernails and hair grow. He is active and energetic. We provide him with
many options to choose from. The nagging and carrying on has to stop. ANd
he
did. To the degree that he is able.


Oh one other issue, DH had to keep showing him over and over again how to
install the car seat and the child into the car seat. But that was a
matter
of about 4 days in which FIL was fully receptive to the instruction.

I think one of the reasons we were able to navigate those issues
relatively
easily is that they would ask me things and I would say whatever your
judgement says. Do you think I should push him to nap? Whatever you think
is
fine. Do you think it is ok to take him to outing X? Whatever you think is
fine.

It may also be that they are particularly nice folks!

Have these issues impacted any of you as well? Curious about your
thoughts.

Stephanie wrote:
Reading the car thread made me think on the issue of grandparents doing
things their own way. I am in accord with Ericka that if the kids are
hanging out with the grandparents, the grandparents should have the liberty
to use their judgement as they see fit. I would tend to see driving from
point A to point B such a part of our lives that restricting that is odd.
But when DO you feel compelled to speak out.

For me, I speak out if it's a matter of safety or something
that will significantly mess up my parenting goals. So, for example,
I wouldn't be ok with improperly installed carseats (or failure to
use them properly), introducing solids too early, unsafe sleeping
conditions, allowing access to media I felt was truly inappropriate,
etc. I don't fuss about things that are just different from the way
I prefer to do them. If I can't make an argument that there's at
least some potential harm in there somewhere (physically,
developmentally, emotionally, whatever), then I keep my nose out
of it.

Have these issues impacted any of you as well? Curious about your thoughts.

Not really. Neither my parents nor my in-laws have
raised any significant issues. They do some things differently
from me, but nothing I think is potentially harmful. There were
some things where accepted practices differed from when they
had young children, but they were happy to adapt to new practices
where appropriate.

Best wishes,
Ericka

Ericka Kammerer wrote:

Stephanie wrote:

Have these issues impacted any of you as well? Curious about your thoughts.

Not really. Neither my parents nor my in-laws have
raised any significant issues. They do some things differently
from me, but nothing I think is potentially harmful. There were
some things where accepted practices differed from when they
had young children, but they were happy to adapt to new practices
where appropriate.

The issues I had with my in-laws were completely different from
anything mentioned here. My MIL would never offer advice or complaint
of any kind. She didn't like to drive so that was not an issue. She
DID smoke, and at one point she was living with us and I was unhappy
about her smoking because I thought she'd burn the house down around
us. But dh felt it was her only pleasure and didn't want to take it
away from here. I had to take her to the ER a couple of times because
she couldn't swallow, and then find a doctor (she couldn't go to our
clinic because that was only for military which she was not - DH was
deployed at the time). The doctor said she had emphysema and should
stop smoking. When I told dh this, he told her she had to stop
smoking and she never mentioned it again. That's the kind of person
she was. She died a couple of months later while she was at my
sister-in-laws.

My FIL divorced my MIL and remarried - this was after dh and I were
married and had a child. I tried to keep him in the loop with his
grandchildren, but his wife did not want him to pay any attention to
his own family - she wanted everything for herself. If we came to see
him, she had a headache (I never even met her), and I gather that she
made his life miserable afterwards. When we sent them a wedding
announcement (not an invitation - just an announcement) of dd#1's
wedding, we got it back with "We don't need any of this expletive"
scrawled across it in black magic marker. So I figured that it was
probably easier for him if we let him go.

My mom was (somewhat irritatingly) always right about most things.
There wasn't as much change between the methods she used to raise me
and my sister and the ones that were recommended for me to raise my
children. Car seats, sleeping on the back, no solids until 6 months
-- all that came after my children were grown. She did help me a lot
with bf.

My mother and dad did a lot with my children. After my dad died, my
mother took each of the grandchildren (at least the ones who wanted to
go) with her on a really nice trip. My mom and my children were all
very close. My sister's children not so much because my mom and my
BIL (my sister's husband) did not get along at all.

As a grandmother, and mother-in-law (which I have been for 28 years) I
have tried really hard not to be demanding or intrusive or critical.
In some cases I have had to intervene between my mom and my child as
to what my child should be doing to raise my grandchild. I have
learned a lot here about what is accepted practice now.

Now that my mother is dead (she died in 2006 at nearly 97 years of
age), I have been trying to do as she did and take my grandchildren on
a trip with just me. My mom did it after my dad died (at age 68 in
1973), and dh is still here with me, but he now refuses to fly, so I
have to go by myself.

The first two grandchildren - now 28 and 26 (both dd#1's children) -
are too old as they are both out in the world working and one of them
is getting married next month. And the third one in sequence died at
age 2.5. But I took the next one to Ireland last spring (2007) when
he was 13 almost 14, and the next oldest went to Spain and Italy with
me on his Spring Break in 2008. He was 13 almost 14 also

I don't think dd#1 wants her youngest child (who would be next as he
turns 14 next month) to go with me. For whatever reason. Either she
doesn't want him to go with ME or she thinks that her child has
traveled enough (and to be fair, he has been all over Europe with his
parents because they lived in England for 2 or 3 years but I'd have
liked to go to Alaska or the Virgin Islands with him), or she thinks
that my ds's daughter should be the next to go. She will be 12 next
July and the trip I've planned is from England around to Rome and back
(on a cruise). After her, I still have four more to plan.

Rosalie B. wrote:

As a grandmother, and mother-in-law (which I have been for 28 years) I
have tried really hard not to be demanding or intrusive or critical.

I think that is appropriate; however, I also think this
is a two way street. Grandparents need to understand that they're
not parents and no longer get to dictate how everything is done,
but they didn't just fall off the turnip truck either. Like
any relationship, each person's behavior affects the relationship.
If Grandma is pushy and controlling, she shouldn't be surprised
if Mom gets defensive and protective. At the same time, if Mom
makes it clear that she doesn't trust Grandma with the child,
then Mom shouldn't be surprised if Grandma chafes under all
the restrictions and eventually finds that she isn't so pleased
to spend a good chunk of time babysitting. You just don't
get to use people like that, even under the pretense that
Grandma's enjoying it because she loves her grandkids. Sure
she does--you love your kids too, but that doesn't mean it
isn't an effort to take care of them and you're probably 20+ years
younger than Grandma. It's work, and Grandma's done her time.
In my opinion, it's my job to bring up my kids. My
folks get to do what they want, the way they want to do it.
We'll have a discussion if there are areas of concern or
disagreement, and after the discussion, if we can't come to an
agreement I can get on board with, then it's my job to take care of
my kids myself or make other arrangements. I have the right
to make decisions about how I want my kids brought up, but
not the right to force my parents' hands, particularly when
they're doing me a huge favor. And if I were in a situation
where I didn't have any alternatives and I needed the help of
my parents to manage my life, then I'd *really* feel like I
had no business telling them what to do and how to do it. I
would find that very uncomfortable.

Best wishes,
Ericka

Stephanie wrote:
Reading the car thread made me think on the issue of grandparents doing
things their own way. I am in accord with Ericka that if the kids are
hanging out with the grandparents, the grandparents should have the liberty
to use their judgement as they see fit. I would tend to see driving from
point A to point B such a part of our lives that restricting that is odd.
But when DO you feel compelled to speak out.

I have spoken out about outings. I do not care if she takes them places
as long as they are in a car seat and not up front.

I do not care what other people feed them (I would if that person was a
regular care provider) but I make it clear that my rule is that they are
not forced to eat.

I do not care about schedules or naps or anything like that. Whatever
works. Again, I would expect a better routine from a regular care provider.

Their Grandma does a lot of things different then I do but I only speak
out about the things that I feel are somehow detrimental.

I am not an overly anxious or controlling person though - IMO

The biggest one is that I have spoken out about what I consider verbal
abuse. Endless lectures and negative scoldings. I have one son with
more then one learning disability and she has a tendency to want to tell
him he'll be a stupid 40yo if he doesn't work harder. No way - not
going to tell him that. When they (especially one) get on her nerves to
much she'll go on and on about how naughty and bad they are, even
swearing. It is just to much and I rarely visit at her house anymore
because of it. She is not as up tight when she is at my house. If she
is even explaining something in a teaching way she just goes on and on
and on until I finally say "We are done. We don't have to talk about
this all day." Ideally we'd have 3hr visits but we live so far apart it
is always overnight.

and FWIW - my opinion is that my boys are all just normal kids.

--

Nikki, mama to 4 boy.

Ericka Kammerer wrote:

Rosalie B. wrote:

As a grandmother, and mother-in-law (which I have been for 28 years) I
have tried really hard not to be demanding or intrusive or critical.

I think that is appropriate; however, I also think this
is a two way street. Grandparents need to understand that they're
not parents and no longer get to dictate how everything is done,
but they didn't just fall off the turnip truck either. Like
any relationship, each person's behavior affects the relationship.
If Grandma is pushy and controlling, she shouldn't be surprised
if Mom gets defensive and protective. At the same time, if Mom
makes it clear that she doesn't trust Grandma with the child,
then Mom shouldn't be surprised if Grandma chafes under all
the restrictions and eventually finds that she isn't so pleased
to spend a good chunk of time babysitting. You just don't
get to use people like that, even under the pretense that
Grandma's enjoying it because she loves her grandkids. Sure
she does--you love your kids too, but that doesn't mean it
isn't an effort to take care of them and you're probably 20+ years
younger than Grandma. It's work, and Grandma's done her time.

I'm not sure why this is such a hot button for you Ericka. IME it
isn't all one way or the other way. It isn't JUST that the mom
doesn't trust the grandmother or that the grandmother is controlling.
You can't stick them in pigeonholes like that.

A dysfunctional family is still going to be that way even after
grandchildren come along, and there's always a lot of emotional
baggage that comes with family relationships. Blood relatives know
each other very well, and how aware each person is of their own faults
and the other persons faults will vary.

For in-laws though, the parameters change. The people involved do NOT
know each other very well - they are not exactly family, but they are
more than acquaintances.

My mother was basically a very strong controlling woman with definite
ideas about how things should be done. She wanted to help with the
grandchildren and one of the reasons why she didn't get along with my
BIL (and also one of my SILs) was that they didn't want her to have so
much influence on her grandchildren and great grandchildren. Possibly
they were a little jealous. Even dh who got along with her as well as
anyone wasn't as fond of her as he might have been. He liked her, but
he put up with her because he loved me.

In my opinion, it's my job to bring up my kids. My
folks get to do what they want, the way they want to do it.
We'll have a discussion if there are areas of concern or
disagreement, and after the discussion, if we can't come to an
agreement I can get on board with, then it's my job to take care of
my kids myself or make other arrangements. I have the right
to make decisions about how I want my kids brought up, but
not the right to force my parents' hands, particularly when
they're doing me a huge favor. And if I were in a situation
where I didn't have any alternatives and I needed the help of
my parents to manage my life, then I'd *really* feel like I
had no business telling them what to do and how to do it. I
would find that very uncomfortable.

That's more or less the way we did it, but even in a case where I had
no alternatives except to leave my children with my mom, I would have
had no problem telling my mom that she needed to back off about
certain issues. Or in most cases, simply ignoring her. She did not
like the way that I brought up dd#2 (my difficult passionate child)
and frequently would tell me that I was doing it wrong. Sometimes I
would see that she was right and would do as she said, and sometimes
not. Just because we disagreed in some areas did not mean that we
disagreed in ALL areas.

It got to be more of a problem with dd#2s first child, who was also a
very active child like his mom, but a boy so it was magnified. My mom
would tell me that dd#2 should smack him to get him to behave, and I
know dd#2 did not believe in that, and neither did I since dd#2 had
taught me that it didn't work with her. So I did not pass on her
advice to dd#2, but not just that - I would tell mom that she was
wrong, and that I wasn't going to tell dd#2 what she said.

On Thu, 10 Jul 2008 14:41:44 -0400, "Stephanie"
nothanks.nevergonedoit.com wrote:

Have these issues impacted any of you as well? Curious about your thoughts.

No, not really. Thankfully, grandparents were pretty un intrusive and
I trusted their judgment about decisions.

They would ask the usual, "does he still nap at such and such a time?"
as they'd usually not want to knock his schedule too far out of whack
but the times they had him over to visit weren't so frequent that it
would have been an issue.

My MIL is the one that introduced ds to the wonderful world of putting
sugar on cornflakes. Up until then I'd kept sugar off his foods. Ds
spent the weekend with his dad and dad was in agreement on the sugar
idea but ds woke up with grandma one morning and she fixed him
breakfast and that was that, lol. Aside from joking about it, it
wasn't a big deal to me.

I did discover my mom had fed ds a bowl of ice cream in lieu of eating
lunch one day because, "he didn't eat what I fixed and he needed
*something* to eat!" Hmmm..... when I pointed out that she never
would have done that for my brother and I as kids she said "I'm
"Grandma" now". I laughed.

~Nan

Rosalie B. wrote:
Ericka Kammerer wrote:

Rosalie B. wrote:

As a grandmother, and mother-in-law (which I have been for 28 years) I
have tried really hard not to be demanding or intrusive or critical.
I think that is appropriate; however, I also think this
is a two way street. Grandparents need to understand that they're
not parents and no longer get to dictate how everything is done,
but they didn't just fall off the turnip truck either. Like
any relationship, each person's behavior affects the relationship.
If Grandma is pushy and controlling, she shouldn't be surprised
if Mom gets defensive and protective. At the same time, if Mom
makes it clear that she doesn't trust Grandma with the child,
then Mom shouldn't be surprised if Grandma chafes under all
the restrictions and eventually finds that she isn't so pleased
to spend a good chunk of time babysitting. You just don't
get to use people like that, even under the pretense that
Grandma's enjoying it because she loves her grandkids. Sure
she does--you love your kids too, but that doesn't mean it
isn't an effort to take care of them and you're probably 20+ years
younger than Grandma. It's work, and Grandma's done her time.

I'm not sure why this is such a hot button for you Ericka. IME it
isn't all one way or the other way. It isn't JUST that the mom
doesn't trust the grandmother or that the grandmother is controlling.
You can't stick them in pigeonholes like that.

I haven't said it's all one way or another. I've said
that it's unfair treatment of Grandma in my opinion, even with
other factors at play.

A dysfunctional family is still going to be that way even after
grandchildren come along, and there's always a lot of emotional
baggage that comes with family relationships. Blood relatives know
each other very well, and how aware each person is of their own faults
and the other persons faults will vary.

For in-laws though, the parameters change. The people involved do NOT
know each other very well - they are not exactly family, but they are
more than acquaintances.

Which is why the son needs to be in the middle of
this...but sounds like there are trust or control issues
between Mom and Dad as well.

My mother was basically a very strong controlling woman with definite
ideas about how things should be done. She wanted to help with the
grandchildren and one of the reasons why she didn't get along with my
BIL (and also one of my SILs) was that they didn't want her to have so
much influence on her grandchildren and great grandchildren. Possibly
they were a little jealous. Even dh who got along with her as well as
anyone wasn't as fond of her as he might have been. He liked her, but
he put up with her because he loved me.

Are you making the argument that the OP is being too
controlling? I haven't seen that, personally, but I suppose
it's within the realm of possibility.

In my opinion, it's my job to bring up my kids. My
folks get to do what they want, the way they want to do it.
We'll have a discussion if there are areas of concern or
disagreement, and after the discussion, if we can't come to an
agreement I can get on board with, then it's my job to take care of
my kids myself or make other arrangements. I have the right
to make decisions about how I want my kids brought up, but
not the right to force my parents' hands, particularly when
they're doing me a huge favor. And if I were in a situation
where I didn't have any alternatives and I needed the help of
my parents to manage my life, then I'd *really* feel like I
had no business telling them what to do and how to do it. I
would find that very uncomfortable.

That's more or less the way we did it, but even in a case where I had
no alternatives except to leave my children with my mom, I would have
had no problem telling my mom that she needed to back off about
certain issues. Or in most cases, simply ignoring her. She did not
like the way that I brought up dd#2 (my difficult passionate child)
and frequently would tell me that I was doing it wrong. Sometimes I
would see that she was right and would do as she said, and sometimes
not. Just because we disagreed in some areas did not mean that we
disagreed in ALL areas.

And I have said repeatedly that it's entirely appropriate
for Mom to stake out some rules dealing with situations where
safety (physical, emotional, etc.) are at stake. I'm not saying
that the parents have to accept anything Grandma wants just
because she's offered to provide care. I'm saying that *barring
objective safety concerns*, this particular restriction is,
in my opinion, over the top.

Best wishes,
Ericka

Sue wrote:
grandmother and I wish that she was still alive to be able to continue in
their lives. I think it is really sad that new parents today don't let their
parents have more time with the grandkids, afterall it's not like they don't
have any experience.

Sometimes, the reason is that the grown children know what type of
parents their parents were. Not all parents are good parents. The
grandchildren might need to be spared their brand of parenting.