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Am I hurting my child by putting her in daycare at 22 months?



 
 
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  #111  
Old December 8th 07, 01:55 PM posted to misc.kids
Sue
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 613
Default Am I hurting my child by putting her in daycare at 22 months?

I think Lee's case is wildly rare. I went through early intervention with my
first daughter and it was nothing like was has been described. No one was
looking to take the child away, she was there to evaluate the delays my
daughter had. As long as the house is reasonably clean and no poop on the
floor (just kidding), I am sure the evaluator will understand your house is
under construction. I would definitely not be worried. I think Lee was also
not very cooperative and had an attitude about the whole thing so that
probably didn't help her case either. I've had all kinds of interventions
because of DD1 chronic illness and nothing has ever been a problem.
--
Sue (mom to three girls)

"cjra" wrote in message
...
On Dec 7, 5:41 pm, Chookie wrote:
In article
,

cjra wrote:
That's my current worry when the evaluator comes next week. Our house,
undergoing extensive restorations, is not exactly "acceptable" by some
people's standards. Fortunately the cleaning lady comes that
morning ;-)


Well, if you can afford restoration (which is even better than
renovation, in
terms of class markers!) and a cleaning lady, they will know you are
middle
class and thus Quite All Right.



I guess being middle class makes us good parents then? Maybe they'll
ignore the caution tape strung across the front porch?

Seriously, our neighbors all joke about the various states of
disrepair of our homes and how our kids are going to be traumatized. I
was uncertain about getting a cleaning person even, because I feared
one would not 'know' how to deal with such a house. Fortunately, my
neighbor whose house is in a similar state already found one and we
share her.

I'm not too worried, esp. now that we've painted the exterior. But
it's certainly on my mind.



  #112  
Old December 8th 07, 05:21 PM posted to misc.kids
enigma
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Posts: 447
Default Am I hurting my child by putting her in daycare at 22 months?

"Sue" wrote in
news:NsmdnUOWXeTECcfanZ2dnUVZ_hWdnZ2d@wideopenwest .com:

I think Lee's case is wildly rare. I went through early
intervention with my first daughter and it was nothing like
was has been described. No one was looking to take the
child away, she was there to evaluate the delays my
daughter had. As long as the house is reasonably clean and
no poop on the floor (just kidding), I am sure the
evaluator will understand your house is under construction.
I would definitely not be worried. I think Lee was also not
very cooperative and had an attitude about the whole thing
so that probably didn't help her case either. I've had all
kinds of interventions because of DD1 chronic illness and
nothing has ever been a problem.



i didn't have an attitude until they threatened to take my
kid! i suspect that would have caused almost anyone to develop
an attitude problem.
and, as i've repeatedly said, EI was fine. Ellen, the EI PT,
was amazing. it was dealing with the school district intake
that started the problems.
lee
  #113  
Old December 8th 07, 10:41 PM posted to misc.kids
Beliavsky
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 453
Default Am I hurting my child by putting her in daycare at 22 months?

On Dec 7, 5:57 pm, Chookie wrote:

snip

The question is why your legislators permit little children to be neglected,
and their parents to be ripped off. Perhaps they need to be spied on by
hidden cameras, to find out what they are doing instead of working!


My question is why you think government regulation of day care centers
will be more effective than parents "voting with their feet" to leave
bad centers. I know a woman very well who ran a day care center at
home fore more than a decade without every registering with the
government. The mothers of the children were very happy with her, and
she has been to the weddings of several of the children she watched.
In the Internet age, there could be forums where parents discuss their
experiences with local day care.

In general, competition is more effective in improving quality than
government regulation.
  #114  
Old December 9th 07, 01:35 AM posted to misc.kids
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2
Default Am I hurting my child by putting her in daycare at 22 months?

On Dec 6, 1:15 pm, Banty wrote:
In article ,
Beliavsky says...







On Dec 6, 12:56 pm, Banty wrote:
In article , Penny Gaines says...


Beliavsky wrote:
[snip]
immunizations? A few people have mentioned that day care may have no
ill effects or be beneficial if the mother researches the alternatives
carefully and chooses a high-quality center. Yes, but mothers
intelligent and conscientious enough to do that will probably be
better SAHMs than mothers in general, and I doubt that their children
will enjoy health or cognitive benefits from extended periods in day
care.


Alternatively, the kind of mother who enjoys a project like researching
the local daycare centres and assessing their suitablity for their
child might find the day to day care of a young child tedious. Coming
up with metrics to analyse staff ratios versus outdoor time could be
much more pleasant to them then getting out the finger paints, or taking
that slow dawdle to the park for the fifth time this week.


Yes. OR just tapped out from doing all those wunnerful finger painting, dawdle
to the park, etc. etc., things during all the non-daycare hours.


Kids can benefit from being with all kinds of people, with different things to
offer. Not only the intelligent have things to offer. A really bright mom
might actually connect better with the child as an eight year old, or later,
than a two year old. Not that he or she can't connect with the two year old;
it's just that parenting changes as the child goes through development, and that
meshes better or to a lesser degree with what any particular parent has to
offer. This has been the argument that men have been giving for not connecting
with infants or young kids for some time - that they'll be more involved when
the kid can start carrying a fishing pople!


Beliavski - what exactly is it that you think intelligent mom will be doing with
her kids that's so all-fired special that she should be there for every waking
hour??
I've heard this thrown about, regarding smart moms should be staying
home to make for smarter kids, but it seems a mantra.


I think children with educated and caring SAHM moms who never go to
day care or preschool can do just as well as kids who attend them. I
don't think I have asserted that day care and preschool cause
cognitive *deficiencies*, I am just questioning that they have
cognitive *benefits*, especially lasting ones, for kids with good
mothers at home. Quoting from a study


Strawman. Again, I'm not saying that childcare is necessarily *better*; I'm
questioning if there is actual benefit for a child staying home all day with an
intelligent mom vs. spending *some* time in childcare. *You* were the one
asserting that.

I think it's a very individual thing. Depending on the personality and
situation of the parents, what opportunities there are for play and stimulation
from siblings and others in the household, many things. Spending all day with a
very young child is crazy-making for some parents. Fathers have been able to
beg off that for some time, without the world falling down around them. Certain
mothers need that break, too.







Darcy Olsen and Lisa Snell
"Assessing Proposals for Preschool and Kindergarten: Essential
Information for Parents, Taxpayers and Policymakers"
Goldwater Institute
http://www.reason.org/ps344_universalpreschool.pdf


"To help determine the efficacy of early education programs, we
examine the results of some of the
programs considered to be early education models--including, Perry
Preschool, Chicago Child
Parent Studies, Abecedarian, and Head Start--and find the research to
be flawed and therefore of
questionable value. We also review information from the National
Center for Education Statistics,
which reports no lasting reading, math, or science achievement
differences between children who
attend half-day and full-day kindergarten. We also examine the results
of the National Assessment
of Education Progress in Georgia and Oklahoma, where universal
preschool has been fully
implemented without quantifiable benefit. We find the widespread
adoption of preschool and fullday
kindergarten is unlikely to improve student achievement.


America's flexible approach to early education gives children a strong
foundation. Skills
assessment at kindergarten entry and reports by kindergarten teachers
show a large and increasing
majority of preschoolers are prepared for kindergarten. The
effectiveness of the current system is
also evident in early test scores. At age 10, U.S. children have
higher reading, math, and science
scores than their European peers who attend the governmentpreschools
cited by advocates as
models for the United States. To the degree that the state remains
involved in financing early
education, we recommend measures for transparency, program assessment,
and improved
flexibility through individual student funding."


So - what.



I would favor increasing child tax credits over increasing government
subisidies to day care centers andpreschools. Tax credits let
parents, not the government, decide whether to use the extra money to
reduce the working hours of one of the parents, most often the mother,
or to use the extra money to purchase better care.


Actually, I don't favor tax credits to parents or for childcare at all! (But
then I think the deduction for mortgage interest payments is an initially
unecessary, but unfortunately entrenched, federal subsidy for the middle class).

The biggest benefits to parents, and the rest of us, would be a truly universal
health care system in the U.S., and some legislation concerning retirement and
other benefits for part time as well as full time workers. Then we could make
family decisions which are truly more to the benefit of our families, and
receive compensation commensurate with our work, to bring home to our families.
Those two things would do much much more than what any child credit or childcare
subsidy would do.

Banty- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


I too question whether sending a child to childcare at a young age is
better than staying at home with mom or dad. (or other guardian)
Children will be in school for the rest of their lives and parents can
never get those first few years with their child back. If families
are fortunate enough to have a stay at home mom or dad, I think that a
child would benefit more from staying at home versus attending
childcare early on.
  #115  
Old December 9th 07, 03:05 AM posted to misc.kids
cjra
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,015
Default Am I hurting my child by putting her in daycare at 22 months?

On Dec 8, 5:52 am, enigma wrote:
cjra wrote
oups.com:

On Dec 7, 5:41 pm, Chookie
wrote:
Well, if you can afford restoration (which is even better
than renovation, in terms of class markers!) and a
cleaning lady, they will know you are middle class and
thus Quite All Right.

I guess being middle class makes us good parents then?
Maybe they'll ignore the caution tape strung across the
front porch?


it seriously helps, both because it eliminates some snap
judgements & because they know middle class parents have the
money to fight them in court.
in my case, because neither of us work outside the home & i
tend to dress as a sys admin/farmer (i'm not too proud to
patch my clothes), they seemed to think i was pushing poverty
level. granted my income is somewhat less since Bush took
office, but it's far from poverty.

so, what kinds of restoration are you doing?


We have a c.1880s house (it's kind of Victorian but not quite. I call
it "working class victorian') that was more of less structurally sound
and had all its original details (unlike many other homes in our
'hood), but had been neglected for years. We've ripped it down to the
studs and one by one replacing/upgrading/restoring. For the 100 yr old
metal roof we just patched it for now. Replaced the pier and beam
foundation but haven't put the skirting on yet. Installed HVAC,
replaced all the old knob and tube wiring, replaced all plumbing out
ot the sewert lines, restoring the wood floors, wood double hung
windows, ornate trim around everything, transom windows, doors, etc.
We've got a great wrap around porch that had a big hole in the front
by the door. We've covered that so you can walk over, but it's still
not quite stable so we have the caution tape up. Each room of the
house has to be done, so we're going step by step.

We've spent the last few months rebuilding the garage (originally a
carriage house/stable). That was my Christmas Present Once that's
done we'll have a workshop and can put all the stuff currently housed
in DD's room so we can finally work on her room! I deally she'll have
a room by her 2nd birthday.


i need a cleaning person, but i need to clean first
the big problem i have with restoring this old house is having
stuff out of place because it doesn't currently have a place
to be, so i have all kinds of bins & boxes & piles of stuff in
the dining room (right now. when i get to the dining room,
it'll be somewhere else & different stuff).


That's how it is for us, and why I hesitated to get someone. But I
couldn't keep up with the bathrooms, kitchen floors, wood floors, etc
and still do other work on the house. It helps that she 'gets' it.

I'm not too worried, esp. now that we've painted the
exterior. But it's certainly on my mind.


exterior painting is on the list, but rebuilding the Federal
front entry (door, side & top lights, rebuilding the moldings,
etc) & reroofing with a metal roof (adding ventilation &
insulation) will come first.
the garage looks worse than the house. that needs a complete
residing & the side door is rotted. really poor construction
on that & it's only 20 years old.
but the posts for the new barn are in...
lee


Good luck! That all sounds familiar
  #116  
Old December 9th 07, 04:06 AM posted to misc.kids
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 85
Default Am I hurting my child by putting her in daycare at 22 months?

On Dec 7, 5:34 pm, Chookie wrote:
In article
,

wrote:
Most schools I talked to said I can drop in any time and observe
through the large glass window but I can't go inside and disturb the
class. This is of course assuming that the day care is not home
based.


The thing that leaps out at me is that they call them "classes" and
"teachers". They are sometimes called teachers here, too -- I suspect because
some parents/staff use the Chinese courtesy title for teacher -- but
officially, they staff are *carers*, and they do not have teacher training.
It is a *day care centre*, not a school, and learning should be informal. The
day care centres I have used refer to rooms (eg, Toddlers' Room) rather than
classes.


Well, It's a montessori school. The rooms are called classes. The kids
do what they do in regular day care centers but montessori is more
organized rather than random play. Even at 2 years of age, they have
dipping/pouring, cleaning, brushing their own teeth, brushing hair,
folding kitchen towels etc. I was really impressed that kids that
young can learn so many things. They say that montessori is for all
kids but not for all parents. It may be a cliche. I liked the school
so far.

To describe a parent's entry into a room of two-year-olds as "disturbing the
class" suggests to me either extreme regimentation or extreme pomposity!


Why wouldn't it disturb a toddler to see parent in the middle of the
day? Most 2 year olds will throw a fit and want to go with the parent
no matter how much they love the school. If one toddler throws a fit
crying "I want mommy", I'm sure atleast one more will follow. That is
very disturbing to the other kids.


I should also add a caveat: there are times when staff will advise you not to
approach your child, in the interests of the child. For example, if a child
is at the stage where they become distressed when the parent leaves, it would
be really silly for the parent to keep coming in to see how the child is
going. *That's* when you need to look through the window.

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

http://chookiesbackyard.blogspot.com/


  #118  
Old December 9th 07, 08:10 AM posted to misc.kids
Chookie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,085
Default Am I hurting my child by putting her in daycare at 22 months?

In article
,
Beliavsky wrote:

The question is why your legislators permit little children to be neglected,
and their parents to be ripped off. Perhaps they need to be spied on by
hidden cameras, to find out what they are doing instead of working!


My question is why you think government regulation of day care centers
will be more effective than parents "voting with their feet" to leave
bad centers.

example snipped
In general, competition is more effective in improving quality than
government regulation.


Spoken like a true capitalist! You've just made a statement of faith; now you
can produce the evidence.

If competition is so wonderful, why do the day cares that Toypup mention
exist? Do you think it might have something to do with demand outstripping
supply? If all the best day cares are full, there is no incentive to improve
a mediocre centre -- plenty of people will have to use it anyway. So we need
an alternative way of maintaining standards. And we do need to protect people
against the genuinely evil (as well as incompetent) people, the baby farmers
that Toypup described, or even worse, child molesters.

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

http://chookiesbackyard.blogspot.com/
  #119  
Old December 9th 07, 02:17 PM posted to misc.kids
Donna Metler
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 309
Default Am I hurting my child by putting her in daycare at 22 months?


"Chookie" wrote in message
news:ehrebeniuk-3C126F.18101509122007@news...
In article
,
Beliavsky wrote:

The question is why your legislators permit little children to be
neglected,
and their parents to be ripped off. Perhaps they need to be spied on
by
hidden cameras, to find out what they are doing instead of working!


My question is why you think government regulation of day care centers
will be more effective than parents "voting with their feet" to leave
bad centers.

example snipped
In general, competition is more effective in improving quality than
government regulation.


Spoken like a true capitalist! You've just made a statement of faith; now
you
can produce the evidence.

If competition is so wonderful, why do the day cares that Toypup mention
exist? Do you think it might have something to do with demand
outstripping
supply? If all the best day cares are full, there is no incentive to
improve
a mediocre centre -- plenty of people will have to use it anyway. So we
need
an alternative way of maintaining standards. And we do need to protect
people
against the genuinely evil (as well as incompetent) people, the baby
farmers
that Toypup described, or even worse, child molesters.

Here, state subsidies have a lot to do with that. While there are exceptions
(many Head Start funded centers are quite good, as are Title I funded
preschools in public schools), the subsidy rate is set low enough that
centers that depend on the subsidies given to low income working parents
have every incentive to cut costs wherever possible. And the result is what
Toypup describes-a revolving door of poorly trained, poorly paid hourly
workers, caring for whatever the maximum number of children the state allows
in that age group, with whatever the minimum requirements are for the room.
Centers that are open extended or unusual hours and take state subsidy money
are rare, so such a center can be pretty darned bad and still get parents.

In addition, many of these centers are experts at advertising what parents
want to see. Low income, poorly educated parents tend to go for programs
which advertise things like "We teach reading!"-when what that means is that
the little 3 and 4 yr olds are drilled on academic skills with flashcards
and worksheets, and while they might come out of it with a few more skills
than most in their SES level, it has been at the expense of unstructured,
developmental play. Middle/upper income/private pay parents tend to demand
the more developmental programs (or, if they want something enriched, they
go for Montessori). They have no experience of failure themselves
academically, so they don't predict failure for their child if their child
doesn't know every single letter of the alphabet at age 4.

I once worked for Head Start when Head Start had taken over an unlicensed
preschool, where, among other things, the children would sit at desks and do
schoolwork for several hours of the day, memorize and recite poetry standing
in front of the class, and, basically, do what was typical in a 1950's era
1st or 2nd grade classroom-and were punished physically for not living up to
the teacher's standards of behavior and academic skills. Not surprisingly,
few 4 yr olds could live up to what she expected.

When Head Start came in, by far the hardest people to educate were the
parents, who couldn't understand that encouraging children to "write"
letters to their friends, complete with sticker stamps, envelopes and
mailboxes, then deliver them and "Read" them to their friends was actually
more beneficial to the children's long-term literacy skills than sitting at
a desk attempting to trace the letter A again and again.



  #120  
Old December 9th 07, 02:37 PM posted to misc.kids
Sue
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 613
Default Am I hurting my child by putting her in daycare at 22 months?

Ah gotcha. You had said something about not wanting Boo labeled, but I
thought that was the point of the visit, to get help for him.
--
Sue (mom to three girls)

"enigma" wrote in message
. ..
"Sue" wrote in
news:NsmdnUOWXeTECcfanZ2dnUVZ_hWdnZ2d@wideopenwest .com:

I think Lee's case is wildly rare. I went through early
intervention with my first daughter and it was nothing like
was has been described. No one was looking to take the
child away, she was there to evaluate the delays my
daughter had. As long as the house is reasonably clean and
no poop on the floor (just kidding), I am sure the
evaluator will understand your house is under construction.
I would definitely not be worried. I think Lee was also not
very cooperative and had an attitude about the whole thing
so that probably didn't help her case either. I've had all
kinds of interventions because of DD1 chronic illness and
nothing has ever been a problem.



i didn't have an attitude until they threatened to take my
kid! i suspect that would have caused almost anyone to develop
an attitude problem.
and, as i've repeatedly said, EI was fine. Ellen, the EI PT,
was amazing. it was dealing with the school district intake
that started the problems.
lee



 




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