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Infant flat skulls can be avoided: U.S. doctors



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 9th 03, 02:23 AM
JG
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Default Infant flat skulls can be avoided: U.S. doctors

"CBI" wrote in message
...

"JG" wrote in message
t...


If a child sleeps *much*
better on his/her stomach (falls asleep faster, stays asleep

longer), it
makes much better sense, IMO, to let him/her do so.


At least (s)he will be a well rested corpse.


Why are you so averse to letting parents make a rational decision based
on *their* situation? A sleep-deprived child can adversely affect an
entire family; his/her problem usually has a domino effect.

There's a trade-off to be made in the case of kids whose heads

become
pronouncably misshapen: Are the costs (financial and other) of

having
the deformity corrected worth the benefit (very, very small) of

forcing
an infant to sleep on his/her back? Likewise (alternatively), are

the
costs of *not* correcting a noticable deformity (teasing,

ridiculing,
name-calling, ...[= bullying, these days]) worth it?


You tell us. What is the cost of correcting these deformities caused

by BTS?

Sorry, I don't have a plastic surgeon on call. I'm sure you could get a
ballpark figure by doing a Gooogle search, however.

Compare that to the number of lives saved. How many of these kids are
noticibly deformed by the time they get to school age? How much

teasing
/life is worthwhile?


That's for the individual (or, in this case, his/her parents) to decide
now, isn't it?

"Doomsday," IMO, is already upon us (the US). The point of my

posting
the article (along with my comments) was not to lament the creation

of a
society with weird-shaped-head kids (hell, some of the kids whom I

tutor
have deformities/conditions that they'd undoubtedly trade for a
flattened head in a heartbeat), but to deplore the existence of a
society in which parents apparently can't discern and resolve

problems
for themselves.


Why do you assume this?


I'd say "up to 48%" of kids having misshapen heads, even if the
deformities aren't permanent, speaks for itself. The simple measures
suggested in the article (prone while awake/observed, rotating 180
degrees in the crib) are, IMO, common sense--yet apparently almost half
of "Back to Sleep" parents haven't employed them (or asked their kid's
caregiver to employ them). OTOH, maybe they ARE aware of them, and
simply think Jr.'s misshapen head is endearing, right? Uh-huh. Yeah...

Maybe they can and they just don't come tot he same
conclusions as you.


Yup. Gee, and to think there are some parents who just can't cope with
having kids, so they come to the conclusion that they'll simply off
them.


  #2  
Old July 9th 03, 02:25 AM
JG
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Default Infant flat skulls can be avoided: U.S. doctors

"CBI" wrote in message
...

"JG" wrote in message
t...


With all the concern
about "bullying" these days, I'd advise parents, especially those
reluctant to encourage their kids to defend themselves, to try to

have
their kids look as "normal" as possible.


Interesting parenting advice. Would you have them keep their mouths

shut and
go along as much as possible as well?


You bet, if they (the kids) are unwilling and/or unable to defend
themselves against the responses (consequences) their words or actions,
like their appearance, might provoke. Growing up, you must surely have
known one or two kids who'd throw stones (literally or figuratively) and
immediately retreat behind their mom or dad. What'd you think of them?


  #3  
Old July 9th 03, 04:50 AM
CBI
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Default Infant flat skulls can be avoided: U.S. doctors



"JG" wrote in message
t...
"Elizabeth Reid" wrote in message
om...

...It should be *ZERO*. How in the world could an otherwise competent
parent .....


JG - the fallacy of your whinings is showing through.

First you whine about the AAP treating parents like idiots.
Then you whine that some of them are idiots.

Maybe there is some connection?
Perhaps the AAP is not being so unreasonable after all?

--
CBI, MD


  #4  
Old July 9th 03, 05:05 AM
CBI
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Default Infant flat skulls can be avoided: U.S. doctors



"JG" wrote in message
t...
"CBI" wrote in message
...

"JG" wrote in message
t...


If a child sleeps *much*
better on his/her stomach (falls asleep faster, stays asleep

longer), it
makes much better sense, IMO, to let him/her do so.


At least (s)he will be a well rested corpse.


Why are you so averse to letting parents make a rational decision based
on *their* situation? A sleep-deprived child can adversely affect an
entire family; his/her problem usually has a domino effect.


Never said I was. Why do you assume that parents aren't? Maybe some value
the decreased risk over a little extra sleep. Truth be told there are very
few kids who, if put down supine right from birth, will not sleep just fine.
There is nothing int he back to sleep program that suggests parents should
force the issue. All they are told to due is to put them down face up. There
is no direction to keep checking them and flipping the kid over. We've
discussed this before yet to keep raising the same old crap over and over
again.



You tell us. What is the cost of correcting these deformities caused

by BTS?

Sorry, I don't have a plastic surgeon on call. I'm sure you could get a
ballpark figure by doing a Gooogle search, however.


For one surgery? - Sure.

The relevant figure would be to determine how many surgeries are being
caused by the campaign. I'm betting it is low. SInce you are the one
claiming it is not worth it then I am sure you won't mind digging out those
figures.



I'd say "up to 48%" of kids having misshapen heads, even if the
deformities aren't permanent, speaks for itself.


What does it say? To me it says that a lot parents have been appropriately
counselled to try to turn the kid but not to get worked up about some mild
asymmetry.

As I pointed out in my other post - the real joke here is that for ages you
have been screaming about how the advice the AAP gives should be obvious to
any idiot. Now you are claiming that 48% of parents are idiots. You can't
have it both ways. If so many parents are so stupid then the AAP is
justified in giving such obvious advice.


The simple measures
suggested in the article (prone while awake/observed, rotating 180
degrees in the crib) are, IMO, common sense--yet apparently almost half
of "Back to Sleep" parents haven't employed them (or asked their kid's
caregiver to employ them). OTOH, maybe they ARE aware of them, and
simply think Jr.'s misshapen head is endearing, right? Uh-huh. Yeah...


No - maybe they are employing them but they don't work 100%. I hear about
kids that prefer to sleep with their heads to one side all the time but you
and Roger are the only two parents I have ever heard claim their kids would
not sleep well supine. Perhaps that is because I counsel my patients from
early on and so the kids become accustomed to supine sleeping from early on
whereas you and Rog never really bought into the whole concept (and probably
took a perverse pleasure in not following the standard advice).

Remember, you still have not shown that there is a significant problem. The
48% figure indicates nothing since that does not tell us how many of these
kids will even have a noticeable asymmetry when older, much less undergo
surgery or teasing. Before you lambaste 48% of the parents for their poor
choices/parenting you need to show that they are doing something wrong.



Maybe they can and they just don't come tot he same
conclusions as you.


Yup. Gee, and to think there are some parents who just can't cope with
having kids, so they come to the conclusion that they'll simply off
them.


I'm not sure I see the connection. Surely you abnit that it is possible for
a well adjusted, sane intelligent parent to come to different conclusions
than you did?

--
CBI, MD




  #5  
Old July 9th 03, 05:08 AM
Jeff Utz
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Default Infant flat skulls can be avoided: U.S. doctors


"Roger Schlafly" wrote in message
...
"JG" wrote
Another article for the "Well, DUH!" file. Amazing how some people
manage to walk without someone else (a physician?) telling them


It seems obvious, but a lot of people have trouble distinguishing
the good pediatrician advice from the ungrounded goofy opinions.


Can you tell me what about advice that prevents kids from dying from SIDS is
"goofy?"

Am J Epidemiol. 2003 Mar 1;157(5):446-55. Related Articles, Links


Infant sleeping position and the risk of sudden infant death syndrome in
California, 1997-2000.

Li DK, Petitti DB, Willinger M, McMahon R, Odouli R, Vu H, Hoffman HJ.

Division of Research, Kaiser Foundation Research Institute, Kaiser
Permanente, Oakland, CA 94612, USA.

To assess the association between infant sleeping position and risk of
sudden infant death syndrome (SIDS) in an ethnically diverse US population,
the authors conducted a population-based case-control study in 11 counties
in California from May 1997 through April 2000. The authors conducted
in-person interviews with the mothers of 185 SIDS cases and 312 randomly
selected race/ethnicity- and age-matched controls to collect information on
sleeping positions. Infants who had last been put down to sleep in the prone
or side position were at greater risk of SIDS than were infants who had last
been put down on their backs (adjusted odds ratio (AOR) = 2.6 (95%
confidence interval (CI): 1.5, 4.5) and AOR = 2.0 (95% CI: 1.2, 3.4) for the
prone and side positions, respectively). The risk of SIDS was especially
high for an unstable side position in which an infant was placed on its side
and found prone (AOR = 8.7, 95% CI: 3.3, 22.7). Infants who were usually
placed on their backs to sleep but had last been put down in the prone or
side position (an unaccustomed position) had a significantly high risk of
SIDS (AOR = 8.2 (95% CI: 2.6, 26.0) and AOR = 6.9 (95% CI: 2.3, 20.6) for
the prone and side positions, respectively). Infants placed in an
unaccustomed prone or side sleeping position had a higher risk of SIDS than
infants who were always placed prone or on the side.

PMID: 12615609 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

There are other drawbacks to putting babies on their backs. Nowadays,
a lot of babies never even learn to crawl.


Better learning to walk in the wrong way (without crawling first) than being
in a coffin.


  #6  
Old July 9th 03, 05:11 AM
Roger Schlafly
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Default Infant flat skulls can be avoided: U.S. doctors

"JG" wrote
I'd say "up to 48%" of kids having misshapen heads, even if the
deformities aren't permanent, speaks for itself.


Yes. Plus delayed development, less sound sleep, less sleep for
the moms, etc. The BS campaign was a bad idea.


  #7  
Old July 9th 03, 05:14 AM
Jeff Utz
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Posts: n/a
Default Infant flat skulls can be avoided: U.S. doctors


"JG" wrote in message
t...
"Roger Schlafly" wrote in message
...
"JG" wrote
Another article for the "Well, DUH!" file. Amazing how some people
manage to walk without someone else (a physician?) telling them


It seems obvious, but a lot of people have trouble distinguishing
the good pediatrician advice from the ungrounded goofy opinions.


Apparently: "Up to 48 percent of infants develop the deformity." This
certainly doesn't bode well for our country's future, does it? It looks
like we have a generation ("GenX"?) that hasn't been taught to question
"expert" advice and to think, *at all*, for themselves. No wonder so
many didn't even blink at WJC's "It depends what 'is' is," or when
Congress passed the USA Patriot Act.


You mean like people who have, say a Ph.D. in mathematics and have "FAQs"
about vaccines? Or about people who claim to be experts in nutrition while
trying to sell a vitamin drink or other useless concoction.

Or, how about a group of physicians who went to college for 4 years, then
med school for 4 years and then 3 or more years of residency. And base their
beliefs largely on information that has been published in peer-reviewed
journals?

Gee, so whom should one believe for expert advice on the care of children?
Someone who is a board-certified pediatrician or an outstanding mathematical
theorist?

All the best,

Jeff

There are other drawbacks to putting babies on their backs. Nowadays,
a lot of babies never even learn to crawl.


Yeah, something else a whole generation won't learn...




  #8  
Old July 9th 03, 05:15 AM
Jeff Utz
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Default Infant flat skulls can be avoided: U.S. doctors


"JG" wrote in message
t...
"Mark" wrote in message
om...

"JG" wrote in message

et...

Another article for the "Well, DUH!" file. Amazing how some people
manage to walk without someone else (a physician?) telling them
(headphones?) how ("Left foot...right foot...left foot...right
foot...left foot...").


Is a slightly flattened back of the head (aka: positional
plagiocephaly) dangerous to brain development?


Overwhelmingly, no. Some flattened-head cases, however (e.g., those
severe enough to require corrective helmets), could conceivably hamper
*social* development if allowed to go unchecked. With all the concern
about "bullying" these days, I'd advise parents, especially those
reluctant to encourage their kids to defend themselves, to try to have
their kids look as "normal" as possible.


What is normal?

And what percent of kids does this affect?

All the best,

Jeff


  #9  
Old July 9th 03, 05:19 AM
Jeff Utz
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Posts: n/a
Default Infant flat skulls can be avoided: U.S. doctors


"Elizabeth Reid" wrote in message
om...
"JG" wrote in message

et...
Another article for the "Well, DUH!" file. Amazing how some people
manage to walk without someone else (a physician?) telling them
(headphones?) how ("Left foot...right foot...left foot...right
foot...left foot...").

How many fights do you imagine this one little piece of advice--"Back to
Sleep"--has caused? Husband: "Aaah, honey? The back of Bubba's head
is gettin' as flat as a pancake. Whaddaya say we let him sleep on his
belly for a while to see if it helps?" Wife (in a high-pitched, panicky
voice): "NO! !! No, no, no, no, NO! He'll DIE of SIDS if we do that!
Dr. Imdeexpert said babies should sleep on their BACKS! So what if
Bubba looks like some sorta weird doofus; at least he's ALIVE!!")


Right. How ridiculous. I'd much rather my son live fast, die
young, and leave a beautiful corpse. A round head would look so
much nicer in the last pictures I'd ever have of him. (As it happens,
he never had any flattening problems, although he did have a bald
spot on the back of his head for a while. The horror!)

From what I've read, in the majority of cases the flattening resolves
itself over time. Even if it didn't, though, what possible implications
would this have for 'our country's future'?


We have more kids grow into adults?

Millions spent on
hat redesign, plunging us into an economic crisis?


Hat redesign? If hats were flexible enough to fit around a kid's ears if he
pulls it a little to far, I am sure they will conform to the shape of the
skull well enough.

But it does sound like a good niche market.

Increased
incidence of mosquito-borne illness because the little vampires have
a nice flat surface to fasten upon? Round-headed aliens arrive and
exterminate us all because they think we look silly? What's the
doomsday scenario here?


An imagined problem, flat back of heads.

I think there are decent reasons to ignore the recommendation, and
obviously the risk to any one child is probably low. Fear of
flat-headedness is silly though.


I think Roger should call this fear "goofy", at least when compared to real
fears, like increased risk of death.

All the best,

Jeff

Beth
Sam 8/16/2002



  #10  
Old July 9th 03, 06:31 AM
Roger Schlafly
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Default Infant flat skulls can be avoided: U.S. doctors

"Jeff Utz" wrote
Gee, so whom should one believe for expert advice on the care of children?


Not someone who thinks that deformed heads, poor sleep, and delayed
development are all ok.


 




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