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#11
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son is often tired
Rosalie B. wrote:
"Stephanie" wrote: Penny Gaines wrote: The problem is that he is later tired during the day. Yawning, rubbing eyes, emotional... So he doesn't think he has a problem - you think he has a problem. He complains that he is tired. Would it be possible to let him sleep in so that he isn't tired later in the day? Maybe he's just a night owl. He can sleep in as much as he wishes. He often wakes up having to go to the bathroom or whatnot. snip I don't think pretend games are a problem, as long as they are all in his head. Alternative methods are the old favourite of counting sheep (or footballs, or just numbers). Variations are counting up to ten, and then restarting from zero. Or counting backwards from some number. Or doing sums. When I was about 5, we were on a train trip and at night my 3 yo sister asked my dad to read her a story. He said if she could stay awake until he finished what he was doing, that he would. And try as she would, she could not stay awake. I concluded that the best way to put myself to sleep was to try NOT to go to sleep. And that's what I did from then on and I still do it. I make up stories in my head and find that I've gone to sleep pretty quickly. The only time this doesn't work is if I'm really worried about something (like when my son wasn't home yet or something like that) to the extent that my mind keeps going back to that regardless of whatever else I try to think about. Even then, if I concentrate really hard, I can at least doze some. |
#12
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son is often tired
Stephanie wrote:
He can sleep in as much as he wishes. He often wakes up having to go to the bathroom or whatnot. Hmmm...does he have regular sleep times and wake times? Lack of a consistent sleep routine can be a real problem, especially for some people. Best wishes, Ericka |
#13
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son is often tired
Stephanie wrote:
Penny Gaines wrote: Stephanie wrote: My son is very often tired. I am a firm believer in the importance of sleep! I think the main problem is that his mind is always thinking and moving. He has a hard time stilling his mind. He will lay awake in bed playing in his head all sorts of pretend games. One thing that definitely helps is HARD physical exercise throughout the day. And we are working to increase this further. Another thing I thought would help if we were able to learn some meditaton skills. I don't really know much about meditation. So I guess I have to have a clue before introducing it. Does anyone have any thoughts on how to proceed or other helpful ideas for sleep? Once asleep, he has no trouble. But *falling* asleep is a problem for him, especially now that he is a little older. Are you sure falling asleep is a *problem* or do you just mean it takes him some time? The problem is that he is later tired during the day. Yawning, rubbing eyes, emotional... The worst thing you can do with a falling asleep problem is to worry about it. Some people do genuinely take a little time to fall asleep - 20 minutes is perfectly normal, or even longer. Well 20 minutes would be a joy beyond belief! Longer... on an order of magnitude is what we are dealing with. Worrying about not-being-asleep-yet turns into a vicious circle, which keeps you awake. How would you suggest limiting his worry? He gets no angst out of me. I am not there in his bed. Is he actually worried? Let him rattle around in his room for a while with the focus off sleep and more on just doing quiet, relaxing things. That is, no full-on light sabre battles with the shadows while bouncing off the walls but pretty much anything up to that. I don't think pretend games are a problem, as long as they are all in his head. Alternative methods are the old favourite of counting sheep (or footballs, or just numbers). Variations are counting up to ten, and then restarting from zero. Or counting backwards from some number. Or doing sums. I am going to get him to add when he is 7 and wants to have fantasy games in his head? I don't understand that. With my DS7 I'm pretty sure the fantasy games in his head as he settles down to sleep *are* a form of meditation and counting sheep. We can usually hear him chatting to himself, making gun noises, singing or even clattering about and sliding guiltily back into bed with the half-dozen toys and books he's gathered since his offcial bedtime, if we come to suggest he "snuggles down now". Sometimes he falls asleep instantly, other times it can take as long as an hour. Is your son allowed to turn his bedside light on a read or play quietly for a few minutes if he's having trouble going to sleep? I tihnk that works better as a settling device than asking them to lie quietly in the dark waiting for that elusive sleep. I'm a nightowl but there is a point in the early evening when I could probably go to sleep easily (and then wake at 3am!) if I went to bed. It's at around 7:30 or 8 pm for me so much too early on most nights. I get my second wind soon after that and become wide awake again so rarely go to sleep before 11 pm or midnight. Are you missing your son's 'best' bedtime by being too early or late to catch it? If he doesn't have to be up by a specific time in the morning for school can you let him sleep on in the morning on the days you don't have to be out early? You're homeschooling, I think, and anyway it's the northern summer school-break now even if you aren't? I'd look at changing his bedtime routine as well, to see if that made a difference. If he has a quiet one now then make it more energetic or vice versa. Read the official bedtime story earlier in the evening and have a noisy game of cards or a board game instead. If he usually has a quick shower in the evening try a long splashy bath with a full flotilla of boats and imaginative sea battles in the bathtub. If his bedtime story is usually read in his bed, move to the living room or mum and dad's bed for a change of scene. At seven I don't think I'd recommend a daytime nap unless the child had been ill and I know my son wouldn't be able to settle for one during the day, anyway. |
#14
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son is often tired
Ericka Kammerer wrote:
Stephanie wrote: He can sleep in as much as he wishes. He often wakes up having to go to the bathroom or whatnot. Hmmm...does he have regular sleep times and wake times? Lack of a consistent sleep routine can be a real problem, especially for some people. Best wishes, Ericka Yes he does. We have a consitent time and routine. I think we will experiment with the no screen time in the evening and see how that flies. |
#15
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son is often tired
Tai wrote:
Stephanie wrote: Penny Gaines wrote: Stephanie wrote: My son is very often tired. I am a firm believer in the importance of sleep! I think the main problem is that his mind is always thinking and moving. He has a hard time stilling his mind. He will lay awake in bed playing in his head all sorts of pretend games. One thing that definitely helps is HARD physical exercise throughout the day. And we are working to increase this further. Another thing I thought would help if we were able to learn some meditaton skills. I don't really know much about meditation. So I guess I have to have a clue before introducing it. Does anyone have any thoughts on how to proceed or other helpful ideas for sleep? Once asleep, he has no trouble. But *falling* asleep is a problem for him, especially now that he is a little older. Are you sure falling asleep is a *problem* or do you just mean it takes him some time? The problem is that he is later tired during the day. Yawning, rubbing eyes, emotional... The worst thing you can do with a falling asleep problem is to worry about it. Some people do genuinely take a little time to fall asleep - 20 minutes is perfectly normal, or even longer. Well 20 minutes would be a joy beyond belief! Longer... on an order of magnitude is what we are dealing with. Worrying about not-being-asleep-yet turns into a vicious circle, which keeps you awake. How would you suggest limiting his worry? He gets no angst out of me. I am not there in his bed. Is he actually worried? I was responding to the poster who commented on worrying turning into a vicious cycle. But he does have concern about it. He will complain that he was up all night last night, which is clearly not literally true since he was asleep in the am. But it can take a *really* long time for him to get there. Let him rattle around in his room for a while with the focus off sleep and more on just doing quiet, relaxing things. That is, no full-on light sabre battles with the shadows while bouncing off the walls but pretty much anything up to that. That is what he does ... though sometimes he gets wrapped up enough in the game to get excited and kick the wall or make louder than usual shooting noises. I don't think pretend games are a problem, as long as they are all in his head. Alternative methods are the old favourite of counting sheep (or footballs, or just numbers). Variations are counting up to ten, and then restarting from zero. Or counting backwards from some number. Or doing sums. I am going to get him to add when he is 7 and wants to have fantasy games in his head? I don't understand that. With my DS7 I'm pretty sure the fantasy games in his head as he settles down to sleep *are* a form of meditation and counting sheep. In this case, I think they are interesting enough to keep him busy and from sleep. We can usually hear him chatting to himself, making gun noises, singing or even clattering about and sliding guiltily back into bed with the half-dozen toys and books he's gathered since his offcial bedtime, if we come to suggest he "snuggles down now". Sometimes he falls asleep instantly, other times it can take as long as an hour. Is your son allowed to turn his bedside light on a read or play quietly for a few minutes if he's having trouble going to sleep? The times we tried allowing him to read, he will simply read and read. It does not allow his mind to still. I tihnk that works better as a settling device than asking them to lie quietly in the dark waiting for that elusive sleep. I'm a nightowl but there is a point in the early evening when I could probably go to sleep easily (and then wake at 3am!) if I went to bed. It's at around 7:30 or 8 pm for me so much too early on most nights. I get my second wind soon after that and become wide awake again so rarely go to sleep before 11 pm or midnight. Are you missing your son's 'best' bedtime by being too early or late to catch it? If he doesn't have to be up by a specific time in the morning for school can you let him sleep on in the morning on the days you don't have to be out early? You're homeschooling, I think, and anyway it's the northern summer school-break now even if you aren't? Many days he does sleep in. Many days he gets up because he is hungry or has to go to the bathroom. Some mornings his sister makes too much noise getting up and wakes him up. We basically NEVER wake him up. I'd look at changing his bedtime routine as well, to see if that made a difference. If he has a quiet one now then make it more energetic or vice versa. Read the official bedtime story earlier in the evening and have a noisy game of cards or a board game instead. If he usually has a quick shower in the evening try a long splashy bath with a full flotilla of boats and imaginative sea battles in the bathtub. If his bedtime story is usually read in his bed, move to the living room or mum and dad's bed for a change of scene. At seven I don't think I'd recommend a daytime nap unless the child had been ill and I know my son wouldn't be able to settle for one during the day, anyway. |
#16
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son is often tired
Hi -- Think about just what he's eating, especially in the evening. It needn't be caffeine or sugar, just something that keeps *him* awake. One of my kids had trouble digesting milk. We took milk out of his diet, and his sleep issues practically disappeared. (Not saying milk is his problem, just that *something* unsuspected might be.) Another thing we did at this age was to *tell* the kids a short story, and then have them think about the ending as they tried to fall asleep. Good luck, --Beth Kevles -THE-COM-HERE http://web.mit.edu/kevles/www/nomilk.html -- a page for the milk-allergic Disclaimer: Nothing in this message should be construed as medical advice. Please consult with your own medical practicioner. NOTE: No email is read at my MIT address. Use the GMAIL one if you would like me to reply. |
#17
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son is often tired
Stephanie schrieb:
Many days he does sleep in. Many days he gets up because he is hungry or has to go to the bathroom. Some mornings his sister makes too much noise getting up and wakes him up. We basically NEVER wake him up. Sorry, but that doesn't really sound like a regular routine to me. Get him up whenever you get up or his siblings get up. Make it a fixed time, like 7 or 8a.m. or something and put him to bed at a set time, too, like 8p.m. That gives him about 12 hours to sleep in, which means even if he doesn't fall asleep right away he should get enough sleep. Be super rigid for a while (I'd say 2 weeks) no exceptions except for emergencies and a weekend is not an emergency, then see if it has improved any. Try the relaxation techniques, but if he sleeps in a lot that means he will be awake longer and that's a cycle you need to break, if it bothers you... cu nicole |
#18
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son is often tired
NL wrote:
Stephanie schrieb: Many days he does sleep in. Many days he gets up because he is hungry or has to go to the bathroom. Some mornings his sister makes too much noise getting up and wakes him up. We basically NEVER wake him up. Sorry, but that doesn't really sound like a regular routine to me. I meant a regular go TO bed routine. Get him up whenever you get up or his siblings get up. Make it a fixed time, like 7 or 8a.m. or something and put him to bed at a set time, too, like 8p.m. That gives him about 12 hours to sleep in, which means even if he doesn't fall asleep right away he should get enough sleep. Be super rigid for a while (I'd say 2 weeks) no exceptions except for emergencies and a weekend is not an emergency, then see if it has improved any. That makes no sense. He is already walking wounded, and you want me to curtail his sleep further? The problem is not being able to slow his mind down. He has TOLD me this. His difficulty in falling asleep is worse the more tired he gets, as is often the case. Try the relaxation techniques, but if he sleeps in a lot that means he will be awake longer and that's a cycle you need to break, if it bothers you... It is not me it bothers. It is him. I don't care when he sleeps. As long as he does not feel tired all day. The problem is that he is not getting enough sleep. |
#19
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son is often tired
Stephanie schrieb:
NL wrote: Stephanie schrieb: Many days he does sleep in. Many days he gets up because he is hungry or has to go to the bathroom. Some mornings his sister makes too much noise getting up and wakes him up. We basically NEVER wake him up. Sorry, but that doesn't really sound like a regular routine to me. I meant a regular go TO bed routine. Yes, that's not helping him though. If he gets to sleep in he will not be tired when you put him TO bed. He's not falling asleep when you're putting him to bed, so he may need a better morning routine as in getting up at the same time every day. Get him up whenever you get up or his siblings get up. Make it a fixed time, like 7 or 8a.m. or something and put him to bed at a set time, too, like 8p.m. That gives him about 12 hours to sleep in, which means even if he doesn't fall asleep right away he should get enough sleep. Be super rigid for a while (I'd say 2 weeks) no exceptions except for emergencies and a weekend is not an emergency, then see if it has improved any. That makes no sense. He is already walking wounded, and you want me to curtail his sleep further? The problem is not being able to slow his mind down. He has TOLD me this. His difficulty in falling asleep is worse the more tired he gets, as is often the case. Well, you are saying he's not able to fall asleep, which to me sounds like he's probably not yet tired when you're putting him to bed. Get him on a stricter schedule and see what happens. My guess is that his system's pretty screwed up by the rhythm he has now so it'll take a couple of days until he settles down. I remember my school holidays, I would read until whenever, keeping myself up, then sleep in the next day, so it was easier to stay awake longer and thus I slept in even later the next day and that's how I got screwed up with my sleep schedule. Not by waking early, by falling asleep late. Of course you're free to keep doing what you're doing and hope it'll produce a different result, but my guess is it won't. Try the relaxation techniques, but if he sleeps in a lot that means he will be awake longer and that's a cycle you need to break, if it bothers you... It is not me it bothers. It is him. I don't care when he sleeps. As long as he does not feel tired all day. The problem is that he is not getting enough sleep. Yeah. But by letting him sleep in you're making the problem worse. Because he will not be tired at 8 when he got up at 10. cu nicole |
#20
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son is often tired
You say the physical exercise helps. What are you doing in that
regard? When I was coaching a swim team I took two months of the year off. One month after the big county meet in August and for the beginning of school in September, and one after the winter season at about the time of exams/graduation in the spring. Parents would complain to me that they didn't like it for me to stop swim team because their kids did so much better when they had swim practice - more focused on homework, slept better etc. |
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