Allowance tracking on Palm?

In article , Louise
wrote:

On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 06:30:33 EDT, Scott Lindstrom
wrote:

Nathan Jones wrote:
Robyn Kozierok wrote:

does anyone track their kids' allowance on their Palm Pilot?

Call me a Luddite, but one of the things *I* really liked
about getting an allowance was, er, *getting* the allowance --
having it handed to me so I could hold the money actually
in my hand and all.

I also don't like the fact that Mom or Dad has to keep track
of how much money a child has to spend.

Being the devil's advocate here ... what do you do if your kids don't
have their money with them, but want an impulse buy? Does it depend
on whether you think the purchase is a good idea? What if it's near
the end of the month or the end of the week (whatever their allowance
period is) so they won't have the money until Saturday, but really
want to buy a souvenir today?

I usually ask them if they have their money. If they
don't they ask if I'll buy it for them, and I say no.
End of discussion. Rarely they will ask if they can
borrow money, and I'll agree, although I always charge
interest, so they really have to want something.
I also pay interest when I borrow money from my kids.
If it's the end of the month and they want something
but have no money, tough. Usually they don't even
ask if there's no money in their wallet -- DS in
particular spends all his money (Bionicle Boy) as
soon as he gets it.

Scott DD 10 and DS 7

In article , David desJardins
wrote:

I think about 99% of the "money" that I spend is electronic debits of
one form or another, not physical cash. My children will grow up into a
world where that percentage is even higher. It seems a good thing, to
me, for them NOT to be dependent on physical possession of money in
order to make purchasing decisions or apply budget constraints. That
seems like the path that leads to overspending as soon as children get
their own credit cards and bank accounts.

Maybe. But I *always* know how much cash is in
my wallet [Usually none ] ... I have no clue
how much $$ is in the bank.

Scott Lindstrom writes:
Maybe. But I *always* know how much cash is in my wallet [Usually
none ] ... I have no clue how much $$ is in the bank.

That sounds like a very strong argument in favor of your parents doing
something differently.

I know much more accurately how much money I have in the bank (i.e.,
within a few percent) than how much money is in my wallet (not
infrequently, I'm surprised to look in my wallet and have no money).
And I think that's really good, because the former is also much more
important than the latter. If I run out of money in my wallet, it's no
big deal; it's just a temporary short-term inconvenience. If I run out
of money in the bank, I can't pay my bills! I don't want my kids to
have a psychological difficulty understanding that the money in the bank
is just as real as the money in their wallet. This discussion is
convincing me more and more of the value of teaching them to handle
electronic accounts at an early age.

David desJardins

In article ,
chiam margalit wrote:

I really don't like the idea of parents interfering in any way with
allowance. If the money is the kids, then they get to do with it what
they will within reason.

I'm the one who wanted to track my kids' money on my palm, but I don't
interfere with their use of it. If they have money in their account,
they can spend it on whatever they want. Ask Matthew, who routinely
"wastes" (IMO) his allowance on a claw machine I've tried to convince
him he will probably never win.

I've never really encouraged them to carry their cash with them, but
my palm is always on me, so it makes spending more convenient for them.

--Robyn

(Robyn Kozierok) wrote:

In article ,
Scott Lindstrom wrote:

I don't like this, so I won't be doing it

Call me a Luddite, but one of the things *I* really liked
about getting an allowance was, er, *getting* the allowance --
having it handed to me so I could hold the money actually
in my hand and all.

My kids actually don't seem to care about that part.

I think there are at least two different kinds of learning to be done with
allowances. One is budgeting and one is keeping track of money. If you do
the keeping track for them on the Palm, then they are not learning the
skill of keeping track because you are doing it for them, and you are also
not making them budget.


It also would caused problems for me for
the kids always to have access to their allowance. It's
a nice out to say to DD or DS that they can't buy
something right now because they left their allowance
at home.

Hmm, I'd never say that. I don't expect my kids to carry
their money with them. If they see something they want to
buy, I ask if they want to spend their own money on it, and
if they have enough. If so, I lend them the money.

However, I am really bad about remembering to pay them and
about having correct change available, and equally bad at
remembering to collect when I lend small amounts of money.

So how did your parents handle this? Why are you so bad about remembering
to pay them?


So far they really like having their total kept in my palm.
They can ask for a balance anytime they want. They have
budget categories that they distribute their allowances into,
and I track all that on my palm, so they can find out how much
they have in any category. It's like having it in the bank,
basically, but easier to get out to spend when they want it.
(They do each have bank accounts where they sock away larger
amounts of "saving" money until they think of something to
spend it on, and we'll still have them do that as well.)
Bank of Mom.

--Robyn

What possibility would there be of having them do their own allowances on
your Palm? I think that would help them learn to keep track, so that they
would KNOW whether they had money and wouldn't have to ask you if they had
any.

I'd say that if they have large amounts in the bank waiting until they can
think of something to spend it on, then they have too much money, except
that I did that too when I was a kid. I accumulated my allowance and
rarely spent any of it. I'm still kind of like that. I don't use ATM
machines except that I got an emergency ATM card before i went to England,
and tried it to see if it worked.

I found when I was in college (my mom gave me $100 in TC to take with me
for misc. expenses) that once I cashed a TC it evaporated. So if I could
hold onto it without cashing it, it helped me not to spend money on
frivolous things. I do the same thing now except I get $20 bills and hide
them from myself so it takes a significant effort to cash one. I know I'm
probably peculiar in this respect, but that's the way it works for me.

grandma Rosalie

My problem with that system is that YOU are doing the tracking as
opposed to the kid doing the tracking. My oldest two are 12 and 9
respectively, and they hoard every nicket and pool it to buy new video
games. You would not believe the horse trading that goes on, as they
count and recount their cash and figure out how much more they need,
how long it will take them save up, what extra chores they can do to
earn a few more bucks, how much they can get for a trade in on old
games etc. etc. They almost never just totally blow money on treats,
since they are so focussed on saving up for some game. It may be low
tech, but its Money Management 101 at its finest.

When I was in my early teens (back in the 70's) my parents started me
on an annual allowance. We sat down and figured out a budget together
that included clothing, entertainment, bus and lunch money, books for
school - everything we could think of. And then they GAVE me the big
wad of cash and an account book. I had to keep track of everything I
spent. I could ask for more money, but I had to be able to demonstrate
where all the money went and why I needed more (i.e. prices had gone
up, we'd forgotten to include something in the budget, something
unanticipated had come up like a school trip (mostly to help me get
thinking of all the things I needed to include in a budget). I know
this wouldn't work for every kid, but it was great for me. The best
lesson was that I'd get handed what seemed like a huge amount of money
(a few hundred dollars back then) and would be amazed to find it
didn't go that far when you added up everything even a teen needed
money for.

Mary G.

(Mary Gordon) wrote in message . com...
My problem with that system is that YOU are doing the tracking as
opposed to the kid doing the tracking. My oldest two are 12 and 9
respectively, and they hoard every nicket and pool it to buy new video
games. You would not believe the horse trading that goes on, as they
count and recount their cash and figure out how much more they need,
how long it will take them save up, what extra chores they can do to
earn a few more bucks, how much they can get for a trade in on old
games etc. etc. They almost never just totally blow money on treats,
since they are so focussed on saving up for some game. It may be low
tech, but its Money Management 101 at its finest.

I totally agree! What really blows me away with this system is that my
kids are starting to be really good consumers, too. For example, we
had to go clothes shopping for my daughter, who conveniently outgrew
*all* her shul clothing right before the high holidays. At Old Navy
there were two soda machines and she started whining about how thirsty
she was, but my solid rule is, NEVER ANY SODA FROM MACHINES. Never!
Talk about overpriced junk food! So, she say she has her own money and
saunters over to the machine, where she sees they're selling cans of
soda for $1.75 a can. She's *outraged* and can't believe what a ripoff
that is. :-) :-) Like for 11 years I've been saying this to no avail
but once it's *her* money, the lesson sinks in! :-)

When I was in my early teens (back in the 70's) my parents started me
on an annual allowance. We sat down and figured out a budget together
that included clothing, entertainment, bus and lunch money, books for
school - everything we could think of. And then they GAVE me the big
wad of cash and an account book. I had to keep track of everything I
spent. I could ask for more money, but I had to be able to demonstrate
where all the money went and why I needed more (i.e. prices had gone
up, we'd forgotten to include something in the budget, something
unanticipated had come up like a school trip (mostly to help me get
thinking of all the things I needed to include in a budget). I know
this wouldn't work for every kid, but it was great for me. The best
lesson was that I'd get handed what seemed like a huge amount of money
(a few hundred dollars back then) and would be amazed to find it
didn't go that far when you added up everything even a teen needed
money for.

I'm very interested in those new loadable credit cards for the kids
once they get a bit older. I haven't investigated them carefully yet,
but the idea seems great: you get a credit card and load it up with a
set amount of money, and they carry it around and use it for what they
want without having to carry a lot of cash. I think that's safer, plus
I like the idea of not having ready cash for trash like those horrible
teen magazines. Has anyone tried one of these or investigated them? I
think they're similar to prepaid cell phones, another item I'm
considering.

Marjorie

Mary G.

In article ,
Rosalie B. wrote:

I think there are at least two different kinds of learning to be done with
allowances. One is budgeting and one is keeping track of money. If you do
the keeping track for them on the Palm, then they are not learning the
skill of keeping track because you are doing it for them, and you are also
not making them budget.

I am indeed making them budget. My kids have several budget
categories, and I track them all separately for them. At first, I set
the portions of the allowance that go into the different budget
categories (so I get them used to the concept of a budget, but they
don't set the budget) but after they have some idea of how the
different categories work, they are free to change their budget amounts
around.

I'm not sure what separate skill you are referring to as "keeping track
of money" -- are you talking about physically knowing where they put
it? Or just knowing how much they have at any time. They can request
a balance from the Bank of Mom anytime, and we also go through their
totals each week at allowance time, so they have a pretty good handle
on that aspect of "keeping track".

I'm surprised by the level of resistance to this idea, frankly. I don't
carry all my cash with me, but I keep track of how much we have and
when I want to make a purchase use a credit card (we get cash back and
other benefits on the credit cards and pay them off fully every months,
so I use it for convenience and the benefits they provide, not to go
into debt to buy things). So, why would I expect my kids to carry all
their cash with them so they'll have it to buy things they want. We usually
do our shopping/errands after school, and they don't need money for anything
at school, so it seems silly for them to carry it with them. Instead of
carrying a debit or credit card, which seems inappropriate at 7 and 10yo,
they use a virtual debit card against their palm bank balances. Why is
that so odd and upsetting to so many people?

So how did your parents handle this? Why are you so bad about remembering
to pay them?

They were bad about remembering to pay too. When we remembered, we'd try
to figure out how many weeks they'd missed and how much they owed us. That
is what I used to do too. But why not take advantage of the technology that
exists to help us keep track of things.

What possibility would there be of having them do their own allowances on
your Palm? I think that would help them learn to keep track, so that they
would KNOW whether they had money and wouldn't have to ask you if they had
any.

They'd have to ask to use my palm to do it anyhow, so I don't see the
benefit. They do have their balances memorized anyhow; I'm the one who
confirms whether they have enough when they decide to make a withdrawal.
And if they lose track, they can just ask me to show them, just as they
could have in prior generations gone to count the cash.

I'd say that if they have large amounts in the bank waiting until they can
think of something to spend it on, then they have too much money, except
that I did that too when I was a kid. I accumulated my allowance and
rarely spent any of it.

They like big expensive lego sets, mostly. My 7yo just spent $80 on a
remote-controlled lego stunt car that's way cool But he didn't save
$80 on his own -- he got a $50 gift to jump-start him and that
encouraged him to save long enough to get the item he wanted. My 10yo
is more opportunistic. He saves gifts and allowance money knowing that
eventually he will see something he'll really wants, and not want to
have to wait to save up for it. Seems like a perfectly reasonable plan
to me. We (DH and I) save discretionary money not necessarily knowing
what we will spend it on in advance as well.

--Robyn

In article ,
chiam margalit wrote:

I really don't like the idea of parents interfering in any way with
allowance. If the money is the kids, then they get to do with it what
they will within reason. Once a parent has a say in it, even if the
say is, "You ought to think about this because you're saving for that
new dvd, REMEMBER???", then the whole point of learning financial
responsibility is lost.


I disagree with you on this point. I do do things like this with my
kids when they are starting out with their allowance (whether cash or
virtual). I think reminding them *at first* that if they spend the
money now, they'll be disappointed when their savings for something
larger don't increase, helps them learn the financial responsibility
more easily. I don't do this anymore with my 10yo, who has long since
learned to manage his own money admirably, but I do do it with my 7yo,
who is still just learning. It's still 100% his decision, but I do
insert some teaching as well. It hasn't been my experience that
throwing them into budgeting and money management with no guidance is
necessary to the development of good money management skills.


--Robyn (mommy to Ryan 9/93 and Matthew 6/96 and Evan 3/01)

In article ,
chiam margalit wrote:

I totally agree! What really blows me away with this system is that my
kids are starting to be really good consumers, too. For example, we
had to go clothes shopping for my daughter, who conveniently outgrew
*all* her shul clothing right before the high holidays. At Old Navy
there were two soda machines and she started whining about how thirsty
she was, but my solid rule is, NEVER ANY SODA FROM MACHINES. Never!
Talk about overpriced junk food! So, she say she has her own money and
saunters over to the machine, where she sees they're selling cans of
soda for $1.75 a can. She's *outraged* and can't believe what a ripoff
that is. :-) :-) Like for 11 years I've been saying this to no avail
but once it's *her* money, the lesson sinks in! :-)

I don't see how this is any different for my kids. They want a soda, I
won't buy it for them, they ask to use their own money and I ask how
much they need and give it to them (if they still want it after seeing
the price). It's not carrying their own money that makes them cautious
about spending it, it's the fact that once they spend it, they won't
have it for something else, a fact they can grasp just fine without
holding the coins/bills in their hot little hands. (We're not talking
about the 2yo here; he doesn't get an allowance at all yet.)

If they ever saw that a can of soda was $1.75 they would be outraged as
well and decline to spend that much of their own money. They're pretty
thrifty, and they know what the junk foods they like "should" cost (but
they're not soda drinkers; that's my vice). Of course, I've *never*
seen a soda machine *that* outrageously priced! Cans are 40 to 75
cents here, bottles often as much as $1. Even in places like amusement
parks and airports, I don't think I've ever seen $1.75 for a can! ouch!!
I've been known to buy a nice cold coke for myself from a machine for 50
cents, even though that is more than buying it in a case in the grocery
store. Some days it's definitely worth it ;-).


I'm very interested in those new loadable credit cards for the kids
once they get a bit older. I haven't investigated them carefully yet,
but the idea seems great: you get a credit card and load it up with a
set amount of money, and they carry it around and use it for what they
want without having to carry a lot of cash. I think that's safer, plus
I like the idea of not having ready cash for trash like those horrible
teen magazines.


Why not just get them debit cards on their own bank accounts? It sounds
like the same concept, really, unless there are charges associated with
one and not the other.

But I don't see how either would translate to not having ready cash for
teen magazines. Couldn't they just use the card to buy them? And I
thought you didn't believe in exerting any influence over how your kids
spent their own money anyhow. This sounds like you now do want to
discourage certain types of purchases.

--Robyn