Dr. Phil

'Kate wrote in message news
On Tue, 2 Dec 2003 18:40:45 -0500, "Tiffany"

What does surprise me is that women blame it on the man for his behavior
when chances are it is learnt behavior. If the man is someone who would
purposely ruin clothes to get out of helping around the house, then in my
opinion, he wouldn't be around the house. T

It's easier to blame the person than the system that teaches some that
they can get away with it. And it would be foolish to give up on someone
because they simply don't want to do laundry. That's one of the
compromises in the division of household labor that has to be discussed.

Evidently, Phil didn't feel that he could tell me how much he hated
doing laundry. He even confessed to hiding it when I visited his
apartment and that one of his reasons for marrying was so that he
wouldn't have to do that kind of thing anymo laundry, cooking.. you
know, women's work. I was young and naive when we met (17). I was use
to working hard. I'd raised my younger siblings. It wasn't that big a
deal.

Perhaps you younger women are more savvy about things like this than I
was. I hope so... for my daughters' sakes.

'Kate


Hell ya! If a man doesn't help around the house, I can tell you he won't
last long in my books. lol (Oh no there's that list again... Ohhhhh Tiff...
lmao. Hmmm could this possibly be a reason I'm single??? I have standards?
Oh God forbid. lol)

Christine

'Kate wrote in message news
On Tue, 2 Dec 2003 18:40:45 -0500, "Tiffany"

What does surprise me is that women blame it on the man for his behavior
when chances are it is learnt behavior. If the man is someone who would
purposely ruin clothes to get out of helping around the house, then in my
opinion, he wouldn't be around the house. T

It's easier to blame the person than the system that teaches some that
they can get away with it. And it would be foolish to give up on someone
because they simply don't want to do laundry. That's one of the
compromises in the division of household labor that has to be discussed.

Evidently, Phil didn't feel that he could tell me how much he hated
doing laundry. He even confessed to hiding it when I visited his
apartment and that one of his reasons for marrying was so that he
wouldn't have to do that kind of thing anymo laundry, cooking.. you
know, women's work. I was young and naive when we met (17). I was use
to working hard. I'd raised my younger siblings. It wasn't that big a
deal.

Perhaps you younger women are more savvy about things like this than I
was. I hope so... for my daughters' sakes.

'Kate


I think household chores should be split up based on who likes to do what. I
don't mind cleaning but I hate laundry. I like to cook but prefer to clean
up after and NOT cook. (My daughter is now doing some of the cooking) I HATE
to mow the lawn but don't mind tending the flower beds. So if there is a man
out there that likes to do laundry and cook and mow I will marry him. lol

Did your Phil do other things around the house to make up for his lack of
doing 'women's stuff"?

T

CME wrote in message
news:GLczb.1185$d35.413@edtnps84...

'Kate wrote in message
news
On Tue, 2 Dec 2003 18:40:45 -0500, "Tiffany"

What does surprise me is that women blame it on the man for his
behavior
when chances are it is learnt behavior. If the man is someone who would
purposely ruin clothes to get out of helping around the house, then in
my
opinion, he wouldn't be around the house. T

It's easier to blame the person than the system that teaches some that
they can get away with it. And it would be foolish to give up on someone
because they simply don't want to do laundry. That's one of the
compromises in the division of household labor that has to be discussed.

Evidently, Phil didn't feel that he could tell me how much he hated
doing laundry. He even confessed to hiding it when I visited his
apartment and that one of his reasons for marrying was so that he
wouldn't have to do that kind of thing anymo laundry, cooking.. you
know, women's work. I was young and naive when we met (17). I was use
to working hard. I'd raised my younger siblings. It wasn't that big a
deal.

Perhaps you younger women are more savvy about things like this than I
was. I hope so... for my daughters' sakes.

'Kate


Hell ya! If a man doesn't help around the house, I can tell you he won't
last long in my books. lol (Oh no there's that list again... Ohhhhh
Tiff...
lmao. Hmmm could this possibly be a reason I'm single??? I have
standards?
Oh God forbid. lol)

Christine



Back to the list eh? lol

If you are single due to your standards, then be proud. I don't think
this is really about having high standards. Back in the day, the man worked,
the women stayed home with the kids, the end. If one person IS home full
time, I would suspect that person would due most the house work. If both
adults work, then the housework should be split up. If it were that easy.
lol

T

"CME" wrote in message
news:kHczb.1182$d35.876@edtnps84...

"Andrew" wrote in message
...

"Joelle" wrote in message
...
I think there's a power thing going on, women still want to be "in
charge"
of
the housework and want to set the standards. But if it really is a
shared
responsiblity, then you have to agree on the standards as well.

Joelle

Yeah, interesting that you should say so. When I was living with my wife
and
I was working full time she had a part time job two evenings a week, I
suggested getting someone to help with managing the housework as it was
a
big load and my sister knew someone who did that for a living. My wife
'did
not want someone else in her house' but admitted it was hard to manage.
I
thought I helped as much as possible when I was home (now I am alone I
know
the difference between the 'showy' help and the real help but thats a
topic
for another day!). I guess it gets very territorial. Sometimes my
attempts
to help out with something would be met with a 'you don't know how to do
that properly'. That's not to say that I am denying the 'men are
inherently
lazy argument' as I think many humans (can we count ourselves here?)
will
avoid tedious work if they think they can and men in a 'normal' (note
the
quotes) marriage have every opportunity to do this. Douglas Adams SEP
field
applies (Someone Else's Problem). Hate to get contentious but some
people
can also project a real 'o woe is me, I work so hard, I am such a
troubled
person, life is just so tough, o woe' and don't seem to want to get out
of
it or be relieved of it. (Not my wife by the way who did lots, was great
and
I just wish it had worked out). Also standards alone and standards with
a
kid in the house, the stuff they do and the time you have to spend on
them
rather than cleaning have got to be different in the real world.

Like someone recently posted there is a problem with 'traditional' roles
and
current real life. Anyone who is a fan of science fiction should have a
read
of the books of Sherri Tepper, feminist writer with some very
interesting
ideas about the way we ought to structure society with the genders
behaviour
as it is. If any of you do read her books I would be interested in your
views on the differing social structures she posits as better or at
least
alternatives.

Andrew

PS Joelle, don't say things like 'he was older, 35'. It hurts. 35 is not
older, it is prime rib from there till at least 45. (Dennis, help me out
here?? 35-55, your sexiest years???) :-)

PPS As an aside there are some things I am obsessive about in the
standards
front, such as how clean cutlery and crockery should be. Although once
having a kid some things do change, five years ago I would never have
imagined being in a position of sticking my poor, naked hand into a
toilet
bowls water for any reason whatsoever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! All we need now
is
me
in the kitchen with pots and pans, Kat dealing with the floors and a
volunteer for the laundry and bedmaking and we're set as a pretty groovy
commune. I also peel potatoes like a demon, its a primary skill of mine.


LOL can I buy you a plane ticket to Canada? Kat and I are almost
neighbours
and I make a mean dinner as well as do laundry.

Christine

Hey, let me pitch in a bit on that ticket! I can't cook worth **** (In the
long run, it tases good, but half the food is ice cold or over cooked by the
time the last item for supper is ready) but I can clean floors like a mofo.
I also have a strange problem with frying pans/pots when they get that black
on the outside from the stove. But the insides? Hell, I'll use a pot to
boil potatos, give it a quick rinse and wipe the inside with my hand, then
use it for soup within the next day or so... Hey, it's all food, and if
rinsed out, it can't be that bad

kat wrote in message news:Lfpzb.3449$bC.332@clgrps13...

"CME" wrote in message
news:kHczb.1182$d35.876@edtnps84...

"Andrew" wrote in message
...

"Joelle" wrote in message
...
I think there's a power thing going on, women still want to be "in
charge"
of
the housework and want to set the standards. But if it really is a
shared
responsiblity, then you have to agree on the standards as well.

Joelle

Yeah, interesting that you should say so. When I was living with my
wife
and
I was working full time she had a part time job two evenings a week, I
suggested getting someone to help with managing the housework as it
was
a
big load and my sister knew someone who did that for a living. My wife
'did
not want someone else in her house' but admitted it was hard to
manage.
I
thought I helped as much as possible when I was home (now I am alone I
know
the difference between the 'showy' help and the real help but thats a
topic
for another day!). I guess it gets very territorial. Sometimes my
attempts
to help out with something would be met with a 'you don't know how to
do
that properly'. That's not to say that I am denying the 'men are
inherently
lazy argument' as I think many humans (can we count ourselves here?)
will
avoid tedious work if they think they can and men in a 'normal' (note
the
quotes) marriage have every opportunity to do this. Douglas Adams SEP
field
applies (Someone Else's Problem). Hate to get contentious but some
people
can also project a real 'o woe is me, I work so hard, I am such a
troubled
person, life is just so tough, o woe' and don't seem to want to get
out
of
it or be relieved of it. (Not my wife by the way who did lots, was
great
and
I just wish it had worked out). Also standards alone and standards
with
a
kid in the house, the stuff they do and the time you have to spend on
them
rather than cleaning have got to be different in the real world.

Like someone recently posted there is a problem with 'traditional'
roles
and
current real life. Anyone who is a fan of science fiction should have
a
read
of the books of Sherri Tepper, feminist writer with some very
interesting
ideas about the way we ought to structure society with the genders
behaviour
as it is. If any of you do read her books I would be interested in
your
views on the differing social structures she posits as better or at
least
alternatives.

Andrew

PS Joelle, don't say things like 'he was older, 35'. It hurts. 35 is
not
older, it is prime rib from there till at least 45. (Dennis, help me
out
here?? 35-55, your sexiest years???) :-)

PPS As an aside there are some things I am obsessive about in the
standards
front, such as how clean cutlery and crockery should be. Although once
having a kid some things do change, five years ago I would never have
imagined being in a position of sticking my poor, naked hand into a
toilet
bowls water for any reason whatsoever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! All we need now
is
me
in the kitchen with pots and pans, Kat dealing with the floors and a
volunteer for the laundry and bedmaking and we're set as a pretty
groovy
commune. I also peel potatoes like a demon, its a primary skill of
mine.


LOL can I buy you a plane ticket to Canada? Kat and I are almost
neighbours
and I make a mean dinner as well as do laundry.

Christine

Hey, let me pitch in a bit on that ticket! I can't cook worth **** (In
the
long run, it tases good, but half the food is ice cold or over cooked by
the
time the last item for supper is ready) but I can clean floors like a
mofo.
I also have a strange problem with frying pans/pots when they get that
black
on the outside from the stove. But the insides? Hell, I'll use a pot to
boil potatos, give it a quick rinse and wipe the inside with my hand, then
use it for soup within the next day or so... Hey, it's all food, and if
rinsed out, it can't be that bad



The problem with that logic is that bacteria can linger if not cleaned
properly. I should pass this post along to my step-father who is the local
city inspector. He would give you a long lecture. lol He is the one who
inspects restaurants around here. Let me tell you.... it is as gross as they
put it on TV.

T

PS Joelle, don't say things like 'he was older, 35'. It hurts. 35 is not
older, it is prime rib from there till at least 45. (Dennis, help me out
here?? 35-55, your sexiest years???) :-)

35 is pretty old to get married for the first time. Actually he was 37 by the
time we got married. I was 30 and I thought I was over the hill.

Joelle
The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
Augustine
Joelle

"Tiffany" wrote in message
...

kat wrote in message news:Lfpzb.3449$bC.332@clgrps13...

"CME" wrote in message
news:kHczb.1182$d35.876@edtnps84...

"Andrew" wrote in message
...

"Joelle" wrote in message
...
I think there's a power thing going on, women still want to be "in
charge"
of
the housework and want to set the standards. But if it really is
a
shared
responsiblity, then you have to agree on the standards as well.

Joelle

Yeah, interesting that you should say so. When I was living with my
wife
and
I was working full time she had a part time job two evenings a week,
I
suggested getting someone to help with managing the housework as it
was
a
big load and my sister knew someone who did that for a living. My
wife
'did
not want someone else in her house' but admitted it was hard to
manage.
I
thought I helped as much as possible when I was home (now I am alone
I
know
the difference between the 'showy' help and the real help but thats
a
topic
for another day!). I guess it gets very territorial. Sometimes my
attempts
to help out with something would be met with a 'you don't know how
to
do
that properly'. That's not to say that I am denying the 'men are
inherently
lazy argument' as I think many humans (can we count ourselves here?)
will
avoid tedious work if they think they can and men in a 'normal'
(note
the
quotes) marriage have every opportunity to do this. Douglas Adams
SEP
field
applies (Someone Else's Problem). Hate to get contentious but some
people
can also project a real 'o woe is me, I work so hard, I am such a
troubled
person, life is just so tough, o woe' and don't seem to want to get
out
of
it or be relieved of it. (Not my wife by the way who did lots, was
great
and
I just wish it had worked out). Also standards alone and standards
with
a
kid in the house, the stuff they do and the time you have to spend
on
them
rather than cleaning have got to be different in the real world.

Like someone recently posted there is a problem with 'traditional'
roles
and
current real life. Anyone who is a fan of science fiction should
have
a
read
of the books of Sherri Tepper, feminist writer with some very
interesting
ideas about the way we ought to structure society with the genders
behaviour
as it is. If any of you do read her books I would be interested in
your
views on the differing social structures she posits as better or at
least
alternatives.

Andrew

PS Joelle, don't say things like 'he was older, 35'. It hurts. 35 is
not
older, it is prime rib from there till at least 45. (Dennis, help me
out
here?? 35-55, your sexiest years???) :-)

PPS As an aside there are some things I am obsessive about in the
standards
front, such as how clean cutlery and crockery should be. Although
once
having a kid some things do change, five years ago I would never
have
imagined being in a position of sticking my poor, naked hand into a
toilet
bowls water for any reason whatsoever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! All we need
now
is
me
in the kitchen with pots and pans, Kat dealing with the floors and a
volunteer for the laundry and bedmaking and we're set as a pretty
groovy
commune. I also peel potatoes like a demon, its a primary skill of
mine.


LOL can I buy you a plane ticket to Canada? Kat and I are almost
neighbours
and I make a mean dinner as well as do laundry.

Christine

Hey, let me pitch in a bit on that ticket! I can't cook worth **** (In
the
long run, it tases good, but half the food is ice cold or over cooked by
the
time the last item for supper is ready) but I can clean floors like a
mofo.
I also have a strange problem with frying pans/pots when they get that
black
on the outside from the stove. But the insides? Hell, I'll use a pot
to
boil potatos, give it a quick rinse and wipe the inside with my hand,
then
use it for soup within the next day or so... Hey, it's all food, and if
rinsed out, it can't be that bad



The problem with that logic is that bacteria can linger if not cleaned
properly. I should pass this post along to my step-father who is the local
city inspector. He would give you a long lecture. lol He is the one who
inspects restaurants around here. Let me tell you.... it is as gross as
they
put it on TV.

T

I don't let dishes sit around all day and night collecting completely
disgusting "stuff" but I do boil water for something like potatos, and then
when potatoes are done boiling, I drain the water out, rinse the pot out
with water and my hand, sometimes a rag if there's one handy, and then use
it again if I see it there. I ALWAYS seem to use the same pot for the same
meal just because it keeps the dishes down. Either that, or when I'm trying
to cook, Wes is right behind me washing dishes ALMOST as fast as I can dirty
them. lol
And believe me, I've seen gross. The Pizza Hut I worked at just before Bran
was born was disgusting. If I told you stories, you'd never want to eat
there if you had just finished spending 3 years in a 3d world country eating
grubs.
Meh... I'll say anyways...
There was this big plastic garbage can that was used for used pizza pans,
topping cups, topping rings and pizza pan lids (this is where pizzas are
thrown together, in the back) When ANYTHING was dropped on the floor, it
had to be thrown in there for washing, obviously. More often than not,
things would fall. Fallen items seemed to rarely get picked up and thrown
in that bin, and everyone found it easier to kick it around a bit, and then
when you actually needed it, someone would pick it up and use it. So very,
very disgusting. I was, maybe, 78 years pregnant (worked until 3 days
before my actual due date) and I still took the time to nearly crawl on the
floor to pick up stuff I, and others, dropped, go put it where it belongs,
wash my hands off, then get back to what I was doing...
Got into work one morning to open the restaurant and do all the prep, only
to find that the psychotic, insane, crazy, perverted manager was there
(hours) before me, and sure enough, he was on his hands and knees, scrubbing
EVERYTHING with a toothbrush. He obviously saw the look of horror and shock
on my face, and that's when I found out that this health inspector was
coming. What a waste. Our store, surprise surprise, had THE lowest rating
in the Capital Region, and the second lowest in the province, second to some
**** hole town up north, I think.
I would not eat at that restaurant after working there, and that's pretty
bad.

kat wrote in message news:Kyrzb.3489$bC.448@clgrps13...

"Tiffany" wrote in message
...

kat wrote in message
news:Lfpzb.3449$bC.332@clgrps13...

"CME" wrote in message
news:kHczb.1182$d35.876@edtnps84...

"Andrew" wrote in message
...

"Joelle" wrote in message
...
I think there's a power thing going on, women still want to be
"in
charge"
of
the housework and want to set the standards. But if it really
is
a
shared
responsiblity, then you have to agree on the standards as well.

Joelle

Yeah, interesting that you should say so. When I was living with
my
wife
and
I was working full time she had a part time job two evenings a
week,
I
suggested getting someone to help with managing the housework as
it
was
a
big load and my sister knew someone who did that for a living. My
wife
'did
not want someone else in her house' but admitted it was hard to
manage.
I
thought I helped as much as possible when I was home (now I am
alone
I
know
the difference between the 'showy' help and the real help but
thats
a
topic
for another day!). I guess it gets very territorial. Sometimes my
attempts
to help out with something would be met with a 'you don't know how
to
do
that properly'. That's not to say that I am denying the 'men are
inherently
lazy argument' as I think many humans (can we count ourselves
here?)
will
avoid tedious work if they think they can and men in a 'normal'
(note
the
quotes) marriage have every opportunity to do this. Douglas Adams
SEP
field
applies (Someone Else's Problem). Hate to get contentious but some
people
can also project a real 'o woe is me, I work so hard, I am such a
troubled
person, life is just so tough, o woe' and don't seem to want to
get
out
of
it or be relieved of it. (Not my wife by the way who did lots, was
great
and
I just wish it had worked out). Also standards alone and standards
with
a
kid in the house, the stuff they do and the time you have to spend
on
them
rather than cleaning have got to be different in the real world.

Like someone recently posted there is a problem with 'traditional'
roles
and
current real life. Anyone who is a fan of science fiction should
have
a
read
of the books of Sherri Tepper, feminist writer with some very
interesting
ideas about the way we ought to structure society with the genders
behaviour
as it is. If any of you do read her books I would be interested in
your
views on the differing social structures she posits as better or
at
least
alternatives.

Andrew

PS Joelle, don't say things like 'he was older, 35'. It hurts. 35
is
not
older, it is prime rib from there till at least 45. (Dennis, help
me
out
here?? 35-55, your sexiest years???) :-)

PPS As an aside there are some things I am obsessive about in the
standards
front, such as how clean cutlery and crockery should be. Although
once
having a kid some things do change, five years ago I would never
have
imagined being in a position of sticking my poor, naked hand into
a
toilet
bowls water for any reason whatsoever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! All we need
now
is
me
in the kitchen with pots and pans, Kat dealing with the floors and
a
volunteer for the laundry and bedmaking and we're set as a pretty
groovy
commune. I also peel potatoes like a demon, its a primary skill of
mine.


LOL can I buy you a plane ticket to Canada? Kat and I are almost
neighbours
and I make a mean dinner as well as do laundry.

Christine

Hey, let me pitch in a bit on that ticket! I can't cook worth ****
(In
the
long run, it tases good, but half the food is ice cold or over cooked
by
the
time the last item for supper is ready) but I can clean floors like a
mofo.
I also have a strange problem with frying pans/pots when they get that
black
on the outside from the stove. But the insides? Hell, I'll use a pot
to
boil potatos, give it a quick rinse and wipe the inside with my hand,
then
use it for soup within the next day or so... Hey, it's all food, and
if
rinsed out, it can't be that bad



The problem with that logic is that bacteria can linger if not cleaned
properly. I should pass this post along to my step-father who is the
local
city inspector. He would give you a long lecture. lol He is the one who
inspects restaurants around here. Let me tell you.... it is as gross as
they
put it on TV.

T

I don't let dishes sit around all day and night collecting completely
disgusting "stuff" but I do boil water for something like potatos, and
then
when potatoes are done boiling, I drain the water out, rinse the pot out
with water and my hand, sometimes a rag if there's one handy, and then use
it again if I see it there. I ALWAYS seem to use the same pot for the
same
meal just because it keeps the dishes down. Either that, or when I'm
trying
to cook, Wes is right behind me washing dishes ALMOST as fast as I can
dirty
them. lol
And believe me, I've seen gross. The Pizza Hut I worked at just before
Bran
was born was disgusting. If I told you stories, you'd never want to eat
there if you had just finished spending 3 years in a 3d world country
eating
grubs.
Meh... I'll say anyways...
There was this big plastic garbage can that was used for used pizza pans,
topping cups, topping rings and pizza pan lids (this is where pizzas are
thrown together, in the back) When ANYTHING was dropped on the floor, it
had to be thrown in there for washing, obviously. More often than not,
things would fall. Fallen items seemed to rarely get picked up and thrown
in that bin, and everyone found it easier to kick it around a bit, and
then
when you actually needed it, someone would pick it up and use it. So
very,
very disgusting. I was, maybe, 78 years pregnant (worked until 3 days
before my actual due date) and I still took the time to nearly crawl on
the
floor to pick up stuff I, and others, dropped, go put it where it belongs,
wash my hands off, then get back to what I was doing...
Got into work one morning to open the restaurant and do all the prep, only
to find that the psychotic, insane, crazy, perverted manager was there
(hours) before me, and sure enough, he was on his hands and knees,
scrubbing
EVERYTHING with a toothbrush. He obviously saw the look of horror and
shock
on my face, and that's when I found out that this health inspector was
coming. What a waste. Our store, surprise surprise, had THE lowest
rating
in the Capital Region, and the second lowest in the province, second to
some
**** hole town up north, I think.
I would not eat at that restaurant after working there, and that's pretty
bad.



Scary thing, those things are pretty typical. When I was a teen, I worked at
Rax Restaurants (which I am sure no one here will remember) but that place
was ALWAYS clean. But other restaurant jobs weren't like that. I could tell
you lots of stories but will spare my hands all the typing. lol

T

"Andrew" wrote in message ...
"Vickychick" wrote in message
om...
I saw a Dr. Phil the other night. It was a mother they revisited who
has been in therapy. Her own daughter called her a monster, due to her
horrible parenting style. But there was hope and she found it. It was
amazing to see mom taking time out for herself. I think doing too much
makes mothers more prone to fussiness and breakdowns. Any thoughts?
Vicky
(who takes time outs when "I" am angry.)

Hi,

I assume you are talking about single mothers? My thoughts are that single
parents can easily fall into trying to do too much and give too much of
themselves. There is only so much to go round at any one time and you need
to recharge yourself to be of most use to your kid. If you take no time out
you come to a point of diminishing returns at some stage and find you just
are'nt as useful to/good for your kid as you could be with a recharge. You
are the most important thing in your childs universe and its important to
keep yourself in tip top condition to fulfill that responsibility. One of
the hardest things to come to terms with is the fact that you should not
feel guilty for being human and needing some time to get yourself together
as well.I have scheduled a recharge for Dec 12th and I am going to a
function with some people I used to work with on a large project five or six
years ago. Intend to seriously let loose, my daughter is going to stay at my
sisters that night (I know my daughter will not be impressed but it won't do
her harm, there is another kid to play with, she gets on with them and will
be safe and I will feel revitalised (once the hangover subsides))

PS, the guilt thing, note I am justifying myself to myself and others in the
last bit.

PPS end of thoughts

Andrew



Andrew:
No need to feel guilty. I take my own time outs in my room and put a
sign on the door: MOM NEEDS TEN MINUTES.
Have fun!
-Vicky

"Tiffany" wrote in message ...


I am not sure if the original post was on single parenting but I like to add
that ALL parents fall into that trap of being to giving of themselves.


Of course, but my original post is geared towards single parents,
hence the newsgroup title.

Of
what I see around me and in my profession, it is not more or less of a
single parenting thing. It is a parenting issue.

Very much, but with a two parent household, functioning within normal
limits, I see the stress is lessened. With a single person, you have
to depend on family, friends, ex's to ease up some stress.

I also will add, that in
homes where there are two parents, it seems to me that the man is more
likely to take time for himself then the women.

That is not always true. The guy I am dating is a single dad and he is
not taking too much time for himself. I think that is generalizing
men.


That is just what I see, no
stats to back it up. It could be the fathers are doing things to keep them
strong for the family while moms tend to think the family will cease to
exist without them there to control it?



Who knows, but with control issues or co-dependant nature, therapy is
needed, in my opinion.

T


V