Parent in the Hospital

"Ericka Kammerer" wrote in message
. ..
But why isn't getting to
stay with other people a fun adventure to be looked
forward to? (Yeah, I know, a bit Pollyanna, but
how you frame the issue matters ;-) )

Because she doesn't look forward to it,
despite my framing it in a positive way to her.

Thanks for the advice given. Any other
perspectives would also to appreciated.


P. Tierney

Could she talk to her mom on the phone?

I suspect that she's picked up a lot of information and
mis-information from listening and half-hearing you deal with the very
worrisome condition of you dw. I found the best way to handle this
(in my case it was my dh being deployed and my dd was about your ds's
age) was to tell a story about a little girl whose [in your case]
mother was in the hospital where she couldn't see her daughter.

Banty wrote:

In article , Ericka Kammerer
says...

P. Tierney wrote:
I have a problem at home, mostly with my 4.5 year old daughter.
It's unlikely that I'll be able to answer follow-up questions, so I'll
be as complete as I can, and any advice would be appreciated.

My wife has been in the hospital for a month. In the first three
weeks, she was essentially in a coma-like state, came "out" of
it, and is headed to a rehab facility tomorrow, likely for a few
months, so work on cognitive, occupational, physical, and
speech rehab. She isn't all the way back now, and it's hard
to say how far she will come back.

Oh, my goodness! I'm sorry to hear that. I was
thinking of you the other day and wondering what you were
up to. I'm sorry to hear it's something like this keeping
you busy :-(

In the first three weeks, my daughter (nor my 16 month
old son) couldn't visit , and we had rotating caregivers while
I visited twice a day. It seemed to be working out. She
asked about her at times, but didn't ask to visit. Once she
was able, however, she refused. She said she was scared
of the hospital, but most likely, she is scared of her
mother's condition, or perhaps, simply isn't able to put
it into words. I didn't press her to visit, as per my own
instinct and the advice of others. And for what it is worth,
my wife, who works with children, seems to understand and
does not take it personally. I am hoping that she would
come around, and that the rehab center might be a better place.

So, of my two questions, #1 is, if she refuses visit the rehab
center, how can I make work? I can't deny my wife visits
if it goes on for months, and I want it to work out soon.
But if the kid is kicking and screaming, then that won't
make anyone happy. So what to do?

If I'm understanding you correctly, then your
daughter hasn't visited your wife at all yet? If so, I
would guess that she is afraid. She's afraid of what
she imagines the hospital will be like, and deep down,
I'm sure she's very afraid of what your wife will be
like. She doesn't want Mommy to be different or strange.
I think it's really essential to get her back up on the
horse, so to speak. Obviously, you don't want to drag
her kicking and screaming, so you'll need to lay the
groundwork and then provide a lot of support.

It occurs to me that you can take a picture of your DW and her surrounds, and
show it to your daughter.

Banty

"Rosalie B." wrote in message
...
Could she talk to her mom on the phone?

I suspect that she's picked up a lot of information and
mis-information from listening and half-hearing you deal with the very
worrisome condition of you dw. I found the best way to handle this
(in my case it was my dh being deployed and my dd was about your ds's
age) was to tell a story about a little girl whose [in your case]
mother was in the hospital where she couldn't see her daughter.

(...)

Also, having your daughter draw pictures and maybe tell stories about what
is happening with the family and mom may help her (and you and your son) a
lot.

Jeff

P. Tierney wrote:

-- My daughter looked at the hospital with me, then she
visited with a friend, but only if they stayed in the waiting
room. The friend's mom asked if she'd like to go to the
hospital tonight, and she replied, "Sure, but I'm not
going to see mom."

I think it would help to simply plan a trip (or regular schedule of
trips) to visit announce it as a plan. Don't ask your daughter if she
wants to go. It is hard to decide, on your own accord, to do something
that is scary and new. It's a lot easier to go along with a plan
determined by a trusted other.

I think the transition to the rehab center is a good opportunity to
make this change in approach. Tell your daughter about the new place,
and how it will be great that we will all start going every Tuesday (or
whatever) to visit, and fold in the suggestions that everyone else in
this thread suggested -- give her a job, make the first visit very
short, etc.

Then just do it. Say brightly "tomorrow is the day..." "today is the
day...right after nap" etc. Then just go. She might just latch onto
your attitude and go in enthusastically. If she doesn't, go through
with the plan anyway, but just stay long enough to do do her job and
say hi, then leave.

Good luck, and I hope your wife improves quickly.

Jan

P. Tierney wrote:
"Ericka Kammerer" wrote in message
. ..
But why isn't getting to
stay with other people a fun adventure to be looked
forward to? (Yeah, I know, a bit Pollyanna, but
how you frame the issue matters ;-) )

Because she doesn't look forward to it,
despite my framing it in a positive way to her.

;-) They don't always buy into it, but
they're much more likely to come around if you have
confidence in their ability to rise to the challenge
and come to enjoy it than if you are worried that
they're being emotionally harmed by it. Also,
if you really believe that it's a fine and reasonably
positive thing for her to be doing this, it makes
it easier for you to parent because you're not
starting out feeling guilty for her being thrown
into this situation and torn over how to meet the
needs of everyone in the family in these difficult
times. I just think you don't have to worry about
the emotional harm of having to stay with different
sitters while you're visiting your wife. As long as
DD is with caring people, she will adjust fine (even if
not quite as quickly as you'd like) if you are not
conflicted over her having to do that. If you are
conflicted, she will smell that from a mile away
and it will make it more difficult for her to adjust.
If she senses that she can bid for more control over
the situation, she naturally will.

Best wishes,
Ericka

"P. Tierney" wrote in message
news
I have a problem at home, mostly with my 4.5 year old daughter.
It's unlikely that I'll be able to answer follow-up questions, so I'll
be as complete as I can, and any advice would be appreciated.

My wife has been in the hospital for a month. In the first three
weeks, she was essentially in a coma-like state, came "out" of
it, and is headed to a rehab facility tomorrow, likely for a few
months, so work on cognitive, occupational, physical, and
speech rehab. She isn't all the way back now, and it's hard
to say how far she will come back.

In the first three weeks, my daughter (nor my 16 month
old son) couldn't visit , and we had rotating caregivers while
I visited twice a day. It seemed to be working out. She
asked about her at times, but didn't ask to visit. Once she
was able, however, she refused. She said she was scared
of the hospital, but most likely, she is scared of her
mother's condition, or perhaps, simply isn't able to put
it into words. I didn't press her to visit, as per my own
instinct and the advice of others. And for what it is worth,
my wife, who works with children, seems to understand and
does not take it personally. I am hoping that she would
come around, and that the rehab center might be a better place.

So, of my two questions, #1 is, if she refuses visit the rehab
center, how can I make work? I can't deny my wife visits
if it goes on for months, and I want it to work out soon.
But if the kid is kicking and screaming, then that won't
make anyone happy. So what to do?

The other issue is control. Earlier this week, she started
clutching to me and crying whenever I left to visit. The
emotions finally caught up to her. She, as I interpret it,
didn't want to stay with anyone that she didn't feel
safe with. She needed some predictability. So, that
left myself and her best friend (who is on our street).
They are understanding and accommodating, so I we
came to an understanding that I would only visit this
week when she could stay with her friend.

Well, that was fine, but she's started to cling to us a
bit tighter. She won't play with any other friends, and
won't even play with that friend if she is with another
kid. A few times, she has not treated her well, and I
fear that if this increases, she'll be left with no one.
She's also a bit short with my friends, or anyone else
who happens to drop by the house.

So, #2, what to do about that:? I want her healthy,
and I think she needed some familiar ground for
awhile to be so. However, I think that if she isolates
herself for too long, then it will have the opposite
effect on her emotional health, especially if she
burns bridges in the process. So, how to get back
to multiple, comfortable friends?

Sorry to hear your news. Hope she recovers quickly.
I think the reaction you're getting sounds normal for that age. Could you
get Granny or someone like that down to help look after her? She might feel
more secure with 2 adults around.
Would your dd like to make something for mummy? A card, or a picture. Then
maybe your wife could send a little note back. All this will help her to
realise that mummy is still there and she loves her. even if she won't go to
visit, then sending post back and forward will help. I think photos/videos
are a good idea too-either way if your dd will say "love you mummy" nicely
on camera. You could suggest she comes to give it-don't push, but suggest.
Maybe another way would be for dd to buy your wife something to wear (say a
necklace) and see if she wants to see mummy wearing it. Or sweets to share?
Maybe she thinks you might leave her too at the hospital? I'd also be
prepared or her not wanting to leave mummy once you do get her in to see
her, because they can swing so easily the other way.
Debbie

P. Tierney wrote:
I have a problem at home, mostly with my 4.5 year old daughter.
It's unlikely that I'll be able to answer follow-up questions, so I'll
be as complete as I can, and any advice would be appreciated.

My wife has been in the hospital for a month. In the first three
weeks, she was essentially in a coma-like state, came "out" of
it, and is headed to a rehab facility tomorrow, likely for a few
months, so work on cognitive, occupational, physical, and
speech rehab. She isn't all the way back now, and it's hard
to say how far she will come back.

I am so sorry to hear about this. I hope your wife makes a full
recovery and comes home soon.

So, of my two questions, #1 is, if she refuses visit the rehab
center, how can I make work? I can't deny my wife visits
if it goes on for months, and I want it to work out soon.
But if the kid is kicking and screaming, then that won't
make anyone happy. So what to do?

[snip]

So, #2, what to do about that:? I want her healthy,
and I think she needed some familiar ground for
awhile to be so. However, I think that if she isolates
herself for too long, then it will have the opposite
effect on her emotional health, especially if she
burns bridges in the process. So, how to get back
to multiple, comfortable friends?


I don't have any specific advice - except is it possible to get some
sort of family therapist or behavioral therapist for your daughter? I
think working on #2 may help resolve #1.

Jeanne

P. Tierney wrote:

I have a problem at home, mostly with my 4.5 year old daughter.
It's unlikely that I'll be able to answer follow-up questions, so I'll
be as complete as I can, and any advice would be appreciated.

My wife has been in the hospital for a month. In the first three
weeks, she was essentially in a coma-like state, came "out" of
it, and is headed to a rehab facility tomorrow, likely for a few
months, so work on cognitive, occupational, physical, and
speech rehab. She isn't all the way back now, and it's hard
to say how far she will come back.

In the first three weeks, my daughter (nor my 16 month
old son) couldn't visit , and we had rotating caregivers while
I visited twice a day. It seemed to be working out. She
asked about her at times, but didn't ask to visit. Once she
was able, however, she refused. She said she was scared
of the hospital, but most likely, she is scared of her
mother's condition, or perhaps, simply isn't able to put
it into words. I didn't press her to visit, as per my own
instinct and the advice of others. And for what it is worth,
my wife, who works with children, seems to understand and
does not take it personally. I am hoping that she would
come around, and that the rehab center might be a better place.

So, of my two questions, #1 is, if she refuses visit the rehab
center, how can I make work? I can't deny my wife visits
if it goes on for months, and I want it to work out soon.
But if the kid is kicking and screaming, then that won't
make anyone happy. So what to do?

The other issue is control. Earlier this week, she started
clutching to me and crying whenever I left to visit. The
emotions finally caught up to her. She, as I interpret it,
didn't want to stay with anyone that she didn't feel
safe with. She needed some predictability. So, that
left myself and her best friend (who is on our street).
They are understanding and accommodating, so I we
came to an understanding that I would only visit this
week when she could stay with her friend.

Well, that was fine, but she's started to cling to us a
bit tighter. She won't play with any other friends, and
won't even play with that friend if she is with another
kid. A few times, she has not treated her well, and I
fear that if this increases, she'll be left with no one.
She's also a bit short with my friends, or anyone else
who happens to drop by the house.

So, #2, what to do about that:? I want her healthy,
and I think she needed some familiar ground for
awhile to be so. However, I think that if she isolates
herself for too long, then it will have the opposite
effect on her emotional health, especially if she
burns bridges in the process. So, how to get back
to multiple, comfortable friends?

Thanks.

SM



Sorry to hear about this news - best wishes for a speedy and full
recovery for your wife.

It sounds like your daughter has a lot of anxiety in general, of course
due to the sudden changes and stresses in the household. If I remember
from some of your previous posts, she is a bright little person....If it
were me I think I would have a detailed, up-front, but kid-friendly
discussion about the situation - what to expect for the coming few
weeks, what mom's capabiities are, why she is staying at the rehab, what
they will be helping her with, etc....describe the rehab place and let
her know that its not the hospital, that she isn't (or is, as the case
may be?) hooked up to all the machines anymore, and that there isn't
anything scary about the place, etc, .....I don't know, I'm sure you've
already done that. I just think that knowledge is power, and we
underestimate kids' abilities to grasp all of that.

I agree with another poster about setting a plan in motion and say hey,
we have a special appointment tomorrow to see mom at her new place where
they are helping her do x, y and z....mom is so excited to see you, lets
take her something (a card, picture, flowers) to help her feel
better....then after we visit mom, lets go get an ice cream! (reward at
the end of the visit). She will likely feel less anxiety after she sees
mom, where she is, etc, knows what to expect. As much as you can lessen
her anxieties about the situation, the other issues of alienating
friends and acting out will likely subside too. Maybe once she sees her
mom and that its a fun outing (make it fun, ie: take her to the dollar
store after to buy a treat, etc), she might come more often, and be
'left' less often with friends. On the days you go in alone, could you
hire a local teenage girl to stay at your house and play with the kids
rather than taking her elsewhere? Being at home might minimize her
anxieties. I don't know, just throwing out ideas....

Tough situation, best of luck to you.

cara

Ericka Kammerer wrote:
P. Tierney wrote:
I'll add some other information while I have a moment:

-- The 16 month boy has been three times. Each visit
pleased my wife, but they only lasted a few minutes, getting
slightly better each time. He either didn't recognize her
(after four weeks) or has forgotten what she looks like,
though we've looked at pictures at home. She's not
disfigured, but was on tube feedings for 3.5 weeks,
so she doesn't look quite the same. And then there are
the various tubes, machines, and unfamiliar surroundings
to complicate things.

-- My daughter looked at the hospital with me, then she
visited with a friend, but only if they stayed in the waiting
room. The friend's mom asked if she'd like to go to the
hospital tonight, and she replied, "Sure, but I'm not
going to see mom."

My hunch would be that this is about her being
afraid her Mommy won't be the same/won't love her the
same/will be scary in some way.

-- She has seen some pictures of her. She was taken aback
at first glance, but looked at them all as I explained what
she was looking at.

This may have contributed to the above, a bit.
Kids don't have all the context we do as adults to connect
up a person with a picture. If she saw a "normal" picture
of her mother, it would still be so different from her *real*
mother because it's just a remote, unemotional representation
of her mother. It doesn't embody anything that's of much
importance to her about her mother. When she *sees* and
*talks to* her mother, only then will she have some feeling
of reconnection and of hope that her Mommy is still the
Mommy she loves and who loves her.

P., I'm so very sorry to hear about this, and hope that your DW
continues to improve.

Wanted to add (although I don't know about your DW, but have a sibling
who spent a bit of time in rehab) that explaining any communication
changes can be helpful; if DW isn't entirely clear in speech,
explaining that upfront can be helpful.

I think if you can get her in there so she
can start to reconnect, you'll see a big difference.
You don't want to drag her in kicking and screaming,
but I think there are good odds that if you give her
(or help her choose) a job so that she can go in and
do her job and leave. She might feel comfortable enough
with such concrete expectations that she'll go willingly.
I wouldn't play up how much Mommy misses her, as that
might make her feel conflicted because she's not sure
she can be what Mommy needs.

I *would* play up that DD can/does have a job waiting for her at the
rehab, though -- ime, there's a bulletin board for each pt, and
selecting and rotating the photos is a great task for a 4 yo. It will
also give the two of you an opportunity to talk about the photos, and
maybe give DD something to 'say' (given the hiatus in communication,
kids can be unnerved regarding what to say) when she sees her mom.

-- I would say that she does have the same expectations
of her behaviour, but her routines are different. A parent is
usually always home. She hasn't had to stay with others
unwillingly before except on occasion. That she has had to
repeatedly has affected her behaviour, in some ways that are
predictable, and some that are not (like shutting off all but
one friend).There hasn't been any lowering of standards.
Life as a whole has changed, obviously quite drastically.

But if it was some benign circumstance that had
caused her to have to do this (let's say you had chosen
to do some part-time work outside the home or something
like that), would you have cut her the same slack with
limiting care providers or shutting out friends or
things like that? Or would you have expected that
she learn to cope with these things? I'm not saying
you've abandoned her parenting-wise. I'm just asking
if it's possible that you're trying to do too much
to accommodate her due to the current stresses--and
if in trying to do so, you're conveying the message
that you don't have confidence in her ability to cope
with the situation. I think you do have to be
understanding of her predicament, but at the same
time I don't think you need to accommodate her
desire for control in these areas. Even the way
you're framing the issue ("having to repeatedly
stay with others when she's unwilling") speaks to
a kind of negativity. I know that this situation
is difficult and I'm not saying that you should just
sweep all the bad stuff under the carpet. No doubt
she's missing her mom.

Just hazarding a guess, she may be missing her mom, and concerned that
if you go away (to visit, or just to go out), you, too, will not be
back for a loong time, or that you'll return changed in some way.

But why isn't getting to
stay with other people a fun adventure to be looked
forward to? (Yeah, I know, a bit Pollyanna, but
how you frame the issue matters ;-) ) She's a
four and a half year old. She really can do this,
even though it will stretch her a bit and isn't
the way you would have planned for her.

I can completely understand the point of framing the issue -- at the
same time, it can help to acknowledge how she's feeling (one of those
'mirroring' conversations), and not just be one-way 'positive
adventures await you at X house.' I'm not advocating being apologetic
about this, but (due entirely to my own personal experiences) feel
uncomfortable with always trying to put the bright and sunny spin on
things that aren't really bright and sunny. I think that kids can see
through that (even at 4) and infer that hiding how they feel, if it's
not positive, is the acceptable (desirable) thing to do.

My sincere wishes for a speedy recovery for your DW.

Caledonia

On Mon, 29 May 2006 10:56:19 -0400, "P. Tierney"
wrote:

My wife has been in the hospital for a month. In the first three
weeks, she was essentially in a coma-like state, came "out" of
it, and is headed to a rehab facility tomorrow, likely for a few
months, so work on cognitive, occupational, physical, and
speech rehab. She isn't all the way back now, and it's hard
to say how far she will come back.

Not much advice to add. I think several people have given you good
options, but I am really sorry to hear that your dw was so ill. I
hope she completely recovers and that any other problems get
resolved.

((((((((((((((((((P.)))))))))))))))))))))))


--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..

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