How To Breastfeed

Michelle J. Haines wrote:

oregonchick wrote:


Uh, it makes me pretty uncomfortable that my posts, although entirely
public, are being spread all over the place...


We do own the copyright to our own posts. What the hell are you
thinking, taking our posts without asking for your own gain? (whatever
that may be)

Not you, Betsy, the website...person.

Michelle
Flutist

I just sent a comment via their "contact us" page. It says:

"As copyright holder of my words, I officially do not give you
permission to reproduce them on your website. In other words, any posts
I make to Usenet are not public domain, and are not for you to
appropriate. Please be sure to delete any posts with my name on it from
your website. Or, you could cease your "synchronization", and make your
own content."

Everybody wanna flood them with something similar? 'Course, it will
require a certain degree of follow-up.
http://www.newmomsforum.com/advice/sendmessage.php
--
Cheri Stryker

Oh, man... Am considering changing my nick, despite having used it for over
10 years...

I can live with the references to a footballer and psychology (having
trained and worked as a psychologist myself, although not practicing now)
but the Scientology references I'm not so sure about.

I knew the psychology/memory stuff would turn up, because that's where the
nick came from. The Scientology stuff, well, apologies to any Scientologists
here but I have a personal aversion to this "religion". So I'm biased when
it comes to this. Oh, well. I can live with it. I had a personal experience
with them (never belonged, though) which has given me an aversion.

Not sure what I would change to, though...

None of my posts showed up when searching Google groups or the web. Did an
advanced search and apparently I have an active life over in the
Counterstrike forum. Not me! Nor is it me posting in Spanish (I think, looks
like Spanish to me). A lot of the other stuff is me, though.

"Cheri Stryker" wrote in message
...
It's always interesting to do a Google search on yourself, and see how
many websites you've migrated to.... Try it, with all the names you post
under.

While the comments on Usenet are available for the public to read, their
actual copyright status isn't clear.

Check out this site

http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html

Talks about copyright os posts and fair use.



"Michelle J. Haines" wrote in message
...
oregonchick wrote:
Uh, it makes me pretty uncomfortable that my posts, although entirely
public, are being spread all over the place...

We do own the copyright to our own posts. What the hell are you thinking,
taking our posts without asking for your own gain? (whatever that may be)

Not you, Betsy, the website...person.

Michelle
Flutist

------------------------------------------------------------------------
A poll associated with this post was created, to vote and see the
results, please visit http://www.newmomsforum.com/advice/s...ad.php?t=32181
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Question: Did You Get The Support You Required As A Breastfeeding Mum?

- Yes, the support was excellent!
- I got some support but more would have been better.
- I didn't get nearly enough support.
- I got no support at all.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wow! It seems like all sorts of things have been going on since I
checked the site yesterday.

Anyway, hi guys, my name is Claire (I have posted on here quite
regularly recently – well since the beginning of April anyway) and I'm
responsible for setting up and running newmomsforum

Firstly, apologies for the amount of time it has taken me to reply to
this post.

Secondly, apologies for the length of this reply!

With regard to the poll that started this; I've always been very
mindful of not spamming the community with big headers or links and I
didn’t realise that a poll would generate such a big link to the site.

I have since disabled polls on our site to stop this happening again. I
have also contacted the user in question and have requested she follows
the correct instructions for posting articles to the site (ie Not via
the forums).

Now to the main part of my response:

I get the distinct impression that you think I'm stealing USENET
content just to make a quick buck.

Newmomsforum is a personal site run by me and only me. It is not and
will never be some big moneymaking corporation covered in pop ups and
flashy banners.

I originally started writing the site in October 2003, we had quite a
big community but unfortunately in late 2005 our site and forums were
hacked. We lost all posts, articles and member data and I had to start
everything, including the rebuilding of our community from scratch.

I won't bore you with all with the history but you can read some of it
on our about page if your interested.

http://www.newmomsforum.com/about-us/

We re-launched the site and the forums in April this year and our
community base is slowly starting to rebuild. We tool advantage to
syndicate with a number of Usenet communities because technically our
new forum software made it possible.

I saw this as being a really big plus as many new moms may not even
know what Usenet is, they may not know how to install a news reader or
they may just prefer to use forum based sites as they have used similar
bulletin boards in the past.

In addition, as more 'non Usenet' users register with new moms forum,
we could also give a little bit more back to the Usenet communities as
our members would also be able to answer queries posted via Usenet
folks using the Usenet newsgroups.

We have already had a number of new moms post questions on the site,
questions which have been syndicated to Usenet and answered by members
of the Usenet community. In the same way we have had newmomsforum
members answering questions by folks posted via Usenet (I've also tried
to post and help out where I can).

I set up this syndication, not to steal content or profiteer out of
your posts but to provide New moms with access to a larger community
via a forum format that many Internet users may prefer.


Nasty, nasty lack of ethics those pages have. "Hey, we can't generate
our
own readership, so let's gank in an established group and make it look
like we don't suck!"


We do not hide the fact that the posts are syndicated from Usenet.

Each of the forums that syndicate with Usenet is detailed as such
within the forums description.

All new members are advised that posts are syndicated to and from
Usenet as part of the registration process so we try to make this fact
as clear as possible, the first post which is pinned in our first Forum
also details the fact that we syndicate with a number of the Usenet
communities, we're not trying to hide anything. (I'll also update our
about us page today).

http://www.newmomsforum.com/advice/s...ad.php?t=32132


The website itself doesn't contain anything much at all beyond the
high-jacked "news forums" ... what the heck is the point of such a
web-site
?

I have spent a lot of time writing building and developing my site.
It's not a work of art but it’s a personal site and I'm sorry that you
think these efforts have been pointless.

Many people don’t even know what Usenet is, many new moms may be
venturing onto the net for the first time looking for advice and
support, I just want to make this process as easy and seamless as
possible, that’s why I provide easy access to this content

It was never my intention to upset, insult or irritate anyone by
providing access to Usenet in this way. If anyone wants their name
replaced at new momsforum with something such as "Usenet Poster" then
please contact me via our contact form and I'll try to make the
necessary changes.

http://www.newmomsforum.com/contact-us/

Again, it was never my intention to offend or upset anyone.

Regards

Claire


--
Claire
Posted via newmomsforum : http://www.newmomsforum.com

Claire wrote:

Anyway, hi guys, my name is Claire (I have posted on here quite
regularly recently – well since the beginning of April anyway) and I'm
responsible for setting up and running newmomsforum

Great for you. Then you're the person I can tell, "Get every single
one of my posts off your site. Please."

Newmomsforum is a personal site run by me and only me. It is not and
will never be some big moneymaking corporation covered in pop ups and
flashy banners.

And your point would be...what? It's still OK to steal other's posts
for fun?

I won't bore you with all with the history but you can read some of it
on our about page if your interested.

Could not be less interested.

In addition, as more 'non Usenet' users register with new moms forum,
we could also give a little bit more back to the Usenet communities as
our members would also be able to answer queries posted via Usenet
folks using the Usenet newsgroups.

You didn't -ask- any of us if we wanted to participate. That's what
burns me. If you wanted our participation in your forums, you should
have ASKED. Instead, you just TOOK.

We have already had a number of new moms post questions on the site,
questions which have been syndicated to Usenet and answered by members
of the Usenet community. In the same way we have had newmomsforum
members answering questions by folks posted via Usenet (I've also tried
to post and help out where I can).

See above.

I set up this syndication, not to steal content or profiteer out of
your posts but to provide New moms with access to a larger community
via a forum format that many Internet users may prefer.

You didn't ASK! You TOOK!


All new members are advised that posts are syndicated to and from
Usenet as part of the registration process so we try to make this fact
as clear as possible, the first post which is pinned in our first Forum
also details the fact that we syndicate with a number of the Usenet
communities, we're not trying to hide anything. (I'll also update our
about us page today).

And because you aren't trying to hide, before setting up your site,
you came to each of the newsgroups and said, "I'd like to copy
everything you say to my website. Are you OK with that?" Oh wait,
you didn't. I suspect because you knew the answer would be "No." and
don't care.

It was never my intention to upset, insult or irritate anyone by
providing access to Usenet in this way. If anyone wants their name
replaced at new momsforum with something such as "Usenet Poster" then
please contact me via our contact form and I'll try to make the
necessary changes.

Oh, nonono. Don't you just change my name, take my posts off. I
don't give you permission to use them.

Michelle
Flutist

Claire wrote:

------------------------------------------------------------------------
A poll associated with this post was created, to vote and see the
results, please visit http://www.newmomsforum.com/advice/s...ad.php?t=32181
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Question: Did You Get The Support You Required As A Breastfeeding Mum?

- Yes, the support was excellent!
- I got some support but more would have been better.
- I didn't get nearly enough support.
- I got no support at all.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
[snip]
It was never my intention to upset, insult or irritate anyone by
providing access to Usenet in this way. If anyone wants their name
replaced at new momsforum with something such as "Usenet Poster" then
please contact me via our contact form and I'll try to make the
necessary changes.

http://www.newmomsforum.com/contact-us/

Again, it was never my intention to offend or upset anyone.

Claire - I understand that your intentions were good, but we all know
the cliche about that.

No, you may not just change my name. Please delete my posts. I have
already written you at the above link about this. (Though you have my
permission to keep this one....)

and on an educational note, part of why this was an ill-conceived idea:

Usenet readers are very touchy about a huge number of things. There is
a very complicated, and for the most part unwritten, set of etiquette
rules about how the messages should look, how they should be encoded,
how they should be written, and what they should contain. The header on
your messages that gets automatically added (the survey thing) is SUPER
annoying to lots of Usenet people, and will get you unmercifully
harassed by loads of the more hardcore. (As an example, in certain
places on Usenet, it is a subject of unending debate whether a person
should put their reply above or below the stuff they're replying to...)

The thing to remember is, those who use Usenet, chose it over forums for
a reason. Also, having one's identity and words "pop up" somewhere on
the net that you've never heard of feels weird, creepy, and stalkerlike.
Again, completely aside from your intentions.

I appreciate that you want to provide this resource to your members, so
perhaps a better option would be to provide a link to Google's groups
area. Here's some URLS:
------------------------------
http://groups.google.com/intl/en/goo...ups/about.html

http://groups.google.com/group/misc....regnancy?hl=en
http://groups.google.com/group/misc....tfeeding?hl=en

You might also put something up explaining what Usenet is, and how to
use it; to make it a legitimate resource for your members.
--
Cheri Stryker

------------------------------------------------------------------------
A poll associated with this post was created, to vote and see the
results, please visit http://www.newmomsforum.com/advice/s...ad.php?t=32181
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Question: Did You Get The Support You Required As A Breastfeeding Mum?

- Yes, the support was excellent!
- I got some support but more would have been better.
- I didn't get nearly enough support.
- I got no support at all.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Cheri Stryker Wrote:
Claire wrote:


------------------------------------------------------------------------
A poll associated with this post was created, to vote and see the
results, please visit
http://www.newmomsforum.com/advice/s...ad.php?t=32181

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Question: Did You Get The Support You Required As A Breastfeeding
Mum?

- Yes, the support was excellent!
- I got some support but more would have been better.
- I didn't get nearly enough support.
- I got no support at all.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
[snip]
It was never my intention to upset, insult or irritate anyone by
providing access to Usenet in this way. If anyone wants their name
replaced at new momsforum with something such as "Usenet Poster"
then
please contact me via our contact form and I'll try to make the
necessary changes.

http://www.newmomsforum.com/contact-us/

Again, it was never my intention to offend or upset anyone.

Claire - I understand that your intentions were good, but we all know
the cliche about that.

No, you may not just change my name. Please delete my posts. I have
already written you at the above link about this. (Though you have my
permission to keep this one....)

and on an educational note, part of why this was an ill-conceived
idea:

Usenet readers are very touchy about a huge number of things. There
is
a very complicated, and for the most part unwritten, set of etiquette
rules about how the messages should look, how they should be encoded,
how they should be written, and what they should contain. The header
on
your messages that gets automatically added (the survey thing) is
SUPER
annoying to lots of Usenet people, and will get you unmercifully
harassed by loads of the more hardcore. (As an example, in certain
places on Usenet, it is a subject of unending debate whether a
person
should put their reply above or below the stuff they're replying
to...)

The thing to remember is, those who use Usenet, chose it over forums
for
a reason. Also, having one's identity and words "pop up" somewhere on
the net that you've never heard of feels weird, creepy, and
stalkerlike.
Again, completely aside from your intentions.

I appreciate that you want to provide this resource to your members,
so
perhaps a better option would be to provide a link to Google's groups
area. Here's some URLS:
------------------------------
http://groups.google.com/intl/en/goo...ups/about.html

http://groups.google.com/group/misc....regnancy?hl=en
http://groups.google.com/group/misc....tfeeding?hl=en

You might also put something up explaining what Usenet is, and how to
use it; to make it a legitimate resource for your members.
--
Cheri Stryker

Thanks for taking the time to pull together a well articulated response
Cheri and thanks for the advice around google groups.

However, please can you explain why posting via google is any different
to posting via my site.

Polls are disabled (although replies to this post may still carry the
annoying header), forum smilies etc are also disabled to strop strange
forum codes appearing in threads.

Google groups IMO is pretty much the same to a forum based site such as
mine other then your using a different interface to post and read
threads (and you'll see more ads at google!)

Is everyone going to request google to remove all posts as well? Did
google request permission to display your posts via the WWW for anyone
to access?

Do all the different Usenet servers popping up everywhere ask
permission to archive the posts you've made in the last 100 days so
they can provide access to anyone who wishes to sign up (for a fee)

Unlike some of these responces I've recieved so far from some users, I
really don't want to appear rude but I'm struggling to understand some
of your logic.

Regards

Claire


--
Claire
Posted via newmomsforum : http://www.newmomsforum.com

"Claire" wrote in message
...

Thanks for taking the time to pull together a well articulated response
Cheri and thanks for the advice around google groups.

However, please can you explain why posting via google is any different
to posting via my site.

Google carry many more usenet forums, and they are presented as usenet
forums and not as some Google invention. So, Google haven't selectively
taken content from usenet (although they probably don't carry *all* usenet
forums).

Via your website, you're not using the usenet forums names, you've
arbitrarily set-up your own and this gives the appearance that you are
"stealing" the content and using it in a form *you* choose. I notice that
my thread entitled "New Moms Forum - Annoyed at them" didn't make it to your
website. No surprise there I guess, but I take it you are arbitrarily
editing content that appears on your website to suit your own ends (editing
in the sense of removing threads *you* deem inappropriate).

Sort of breaks the spirit of usenet does it not. "Hey guys, we're
syndicated with usenet forums, but I'll edit out anything I don't like". Via
the forums on your website, your the supreme moderator I guess, maybe your
members will like you as a self appointed judge of what is good and what
isn't. It not the spirit of usenet though (unless of course it's a moderated
group).

In your forum "babies first years", you've got a thread from
misc.kids.pregnancy entitled "sick 14 month old advice" and another one
entitled "spots that don't fade when pressed". Same in "teen pregancy" ..
threads swiped from misc.kids.pregnancy. Same in "early preganancy signs and
symptoms"... threads swiped from misc.kids.preganancy. And .. Getting
pregnant, also threads from misc.kids.preganancy. So you're certainly
moving stuff around to suit yourself.

So, although you've declared 3 of your forums as syndicated, your other
forums contains content swiped from usenet groups.

I THINK YOU'LL FIND THAT GOOGLE DON'T DO STUFF LIKE THAT.


Google groups IMO is pretty much the same to a forum based site such as

Disagree for reasons stated above. YOU are "moderating" the content.


Is everyone going to request google to remove all posts as well? Did
google request permission to display your posts via the WWW for anyone
to access?

Google are simple another new server in a massive chain of new servers. You
on the other hand have renamed groups and moderated content.

Claire wrote:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
A poll associated with this post was created, to vote and see the
results, please visit
http://www.newmomsforum.com/advice/s...ad.php?t=32181

Dear Claire

Is there a way to vote to get you to stop syndicating Usenet newsgroups
without asking the groups beforehand if they mind you doing so?

PattyMomVA wrote:


If you read the reaction to sineadhoben's posts on mkb via your forum, you
will see why this isn't a good idea. Your forum members have no sense for
Usenet and how to enter the community. They have no access to the
newsgroups that will give them guidance in posting. All they have are the
threads that you have chosen to show them. Those threads don't provide them
enough information and context to use Usenet, so they shouldn't be here.

I could deal with it if the gateway worked by posting a thread from
there to here (and not every one, only in say one forum marked
specifically to gateway to here), and ONLY the follow-ups to that
thread bouncing back AND every post CLEARLY marked, "Any answers to
this post will appear on BlahBlah website."

This whole excuse of, "Well, I'm not hiding it! Our forums says
specifically we do it!" Well, how are -we- supposed to know that. I
don't read that forum, and certainly no one came here to say that.
What, I'm supposed to police every website on the net to see if
they're swiping Usenet posts?

Michelle
Flutist