Felix Chen ""protected"" to death

Greegor wrote:
LaVonne
Her child should not have died, but he did. He was removed for
inadequate medical care from his biological family.

Yes, inadequate medical care was the EXCUSE used for his removal.

No it was not.

The law suit found that EXCUSE was IN ERROR.

No it didn't. Settlement does not resolve guilt, innocence, or produce a
finding.

Not of any kind. It's a settlement.

That's why there was a payout.

Nope. That is most decidedly NOT why there was a payout.
The court made not finding, gave no monetary award to the complainant.

You are making things up again, or babbling out of ignorance.

So, now that you've gotten this far and wondered why I posted yet
another reply to you on this issue chuckle and presuming you won't
stop reading and rush off yet another stupid post asking me why and
presuming it's a "propaganda ploy," and I have your stupid ATTENTION,
tell us what you think of this story:

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/9613151/de...s=atl&psp=news


WSBTV.com
Mother Sentenced For Cutting Son's Tongue

POSTED: 5:41 am EDT August 2, 2006
UPDATED: 10:34 am EDT August 2, 2006

ATLANTA -- A mother accused of cutting off part of her son's tongue with
hot scissors avoided a 5-year prison sentence and was sentenced to 10
years probation.

But before going on probation, Samantha J. Davis, 33, will serve 60 to
180 days in a detention center.

Judge Wade Crumbley also told Davis to complete a 26-week parenting
class, a nonviolence class and have only supervised visits with her son.

Henry County prosecutors had recommended that Davis serve five years in
prison. But the boy's father testified Tuesday that he did not want her
to go to prison.

"He told the judge she is a good woman, and he doesn't feel his son is
unsafe around her," Davis' lawyer, Rickey L. Richardson, said.

Davis heated a pair of scissors on a stove in August 2004 and held it to
her 6-year-old son's neck before cutting off a piece of his tongue as
punishment for talking back, authorities said. Her estranged husband,
Toby Davis reported the injuries to police and she was arrested.

The child has been in his father's custody since then. Davis pleaded
guilty in June to two child cruelty charges.

But the state's case was hampered when Toby Davis filed court papers
refusing to cooperate with the prosecution and asking that charges be
dropped. The boy also signed an affidavit saying he did not want his
mother prosecuted.

Henry District Attorney Tommy Floyd said he did not know if the father's
refusal affected the sentence.

"The judge didn't say, 'This is why I'm doing what I'm doing.' I know
the father was very reluctant to prosecute and we feel he influenced the
child," Floyd said.

In the meantime, Richardson said Samantha Davis was relieved by the
sentence.

"She was hoping for straight probation but at least it isn't the five
years in prison the state wanted," he said.

Copyright 2006 by The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This
material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/9613151/de...s=atl&psp=news

--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)

Greg wrote
Yes, inadequate medical care was the EXCUSE used for his removal.

Kane wrote
No it was not.

Actually, Kane, that was public information.
Yes, it WAS the excuse used for removing Felix.

Greg wrote
The law suit found that EXCUSE was IN ERROR.

Kane wrote
No it didn't. Settlement does not resolve guilt, innocence,
or produce a finding.

Would you like to take a survey on that?
Does paying 350 K out of court indicate no guilt?

Betty, Ron?

On Wed, 2 Aug 2006, 0:- wrote:

Copyright 2006 by The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This
material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/9613151/de...s=atl&psp=news


Fair use again, Kane? ;-)

Doan

Greegor wrote:

Greg wrote

The law suit found that EXCUSE was IN ERROR.


Kane wrote

No it didn't. Settlement does not resolve guilt, innocence,
or produce a finding.


Would you like to take a survey on that?
Does paying 350 K out of court indicate no guilt?

Paying 350 K out of court has nothing to do with guilt or innocence. In
fact, if you knew anything about law, you would realize that 350 K is
peanuts compared to many settlements. I've explained it. Kane's
explained it. You can do a survey if you like, but surveys do not
change the law.

A settlement avoids further court costs and satisfies both parties.
That is all a settlement is. It has nothing to do with guilt or
innocence. What is it about this you do not understand?

LaVonne

Betty, Ron?

Greegor wrote:
Greg wrote
Yes, inadequate medical care was the EXCUSE used for his removal.

Kane wrote
No it was not.

Actually, Kane, that was public information.
Yes, it WAS the excuse used for removing Felix.

The precipitating act was the tying of his hands. No?

Not even Ms Chen's attorney claimed that, Greg.

"There was clearly a lack of cultural sensitivity and a failure
on the part of the state and Family Solutions to recognize that some of
what they considered to be a basis for removing Felix was simply a
failure to understand cultural differences."

The ONLY thing Ms Chen did that could be seen as relating to the above
was the tying of his hands. No mention is made of her failing to meet
his medical needs.

From your own opening media cite in the thread introductory post:

""Without investigating the complex situation, OFC rushed into
conclusion that I didn't understand American law." Chen said the
social worker never told her tying Felix's hands was wrong or illegal
-- instead, she reported the mother to Child Protective Services. "

In fact, since this article YOU posted was the victim I believe, of YOUR
attribution abortions, I'm going to include it here and ask that you
point out, DIRECTLY, where it says the child was removed for "inadequate
medical care."

Or anything even similar:

State settles in death of boy taken from mother
http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dl...72/1006/NEWS01
July 13, 2006
State settles in death of boy taken from mother
$350,000 to be paid to parents; child was removed after mom had sought
help
By Tim Evans and Eunice Trotter

The parents of a 6-year-old boy, who was taken from his mother by
Monroe County child protection workers and died three months later in
foster care, will get $350,000 to head off a lawsuit over the death.
The settlement, filed Wednesday in Monroe Circuit Court, will end a
federal wrongful-death suit brought by the parents of Felix Chen. They
contend the boy was wrongly removed in 2004 from his mother, Indiana
University biology Professor Lingling Chen, because social workers did
not understand her Chinese cultural heritage. They also claim the boy
did not receive adequate medical treatment while he was in the state's
care.

"I hope this settlement . . . should help to pressure the system to
make some drastic measures to prevent similar things from happening to
another child and another family," Chen said. The state of Indiana --
on behalf of the Family and Social Services Administration, the Monroe
County Office of Family and Children and several employees -- has
agreed to pay $250,000 to Chen and Felix's father, Xiaohau Huang, La
Jolla, Calif., in exchange for dropping the federal claim and releasing
the state from any future liability. Family Solutions, a Monroe County
nonprofit agency that provides contract services to the state and
triggered the removal of Felix, will pay $100,000 under the same
conditions. The agreement states the payments are "not to be construed
as an admission of liability" by the state or Family Solutions and that
the settlement was reached "merely to avoid litigation and buy their
peace."

Chen's attorney, Geoffrey M. Grodner, Bloomington, said that
type of language is standard for pretrial settlements. "It will be up
to the people of the state to reach their own conclusions as to whether
the state acknowledged some potential liability in this matter," he
said. "There was clearly a lack of cultural sensitivity and a failure
on the part of the state and Family Solutions to recognize that some of
what they considered to be a basis for removing Felix was simply a
failure to understand cultural differences." Staci Schneider,
spokeswoman for the attorney general's office, which represented the
state in the legal case, confirmed the settlement but said she could
not discuss details. A spokeswoman for the state Department of Child
Services, which now oversees Child Protective Services, did not return
a call Wednesday, and officials of Family Solutions could not be
reached for comment.

Grodner said Chen, a single mother and busy professional, struggled
with Felix, who suffered from a kidney problem that required Chen to
catheterize him when he had trouble urinating. The pain sometimes
prompted Felix to bite and hit himself and others. At the suggestion
of a counselor, Chen voluntarily sought help from the Monroe County
Office of Family and Children, which referred her to Family Solutions.
After five visits with Chen and Felix during late 2003, a Family
Solutions social worker developed a plan for helping Felix. When she
met with the social worker on Jan. 8, 2004, to learn details of the
plan, Chen casually mentioned she had come up with a way to keep Felix
from hitting himself: She tied his hands with a terry cloth belt from a
bathrobe. "Under difficult situations, I had to resort to some
unharmful restraint before he could hurt himself," Chen said Wednesday.
"Without investigating the complex situation, OFC rushed into
conclusion that I didn't understand American law." Chen said the
social worker never told her tying Felix's hands was wrong or illegal
-- instead, she reported the mother to Child Protective Services. The
following day, a caseworker and two Bloomington police officers came to
her home and took Felix, who was placed in a foster home. "From that
moment on," Grodner said, "the result was a downward spiral in his
health that ultimately resulted in Felix's death." Chen said Felix's
health problems had been improving before he was put in foster care but
rapidly deteriorated. He was hospitalized several times while in state
care in the months before his death.
He died April 1, 2004 -- a day after Chen was told by child protection
officials that he would soon be returned to her. Now that the legal
case has been resolved, Chen said she hopes to use money from the
settlement to try to prevent similar tragedies through a foundation she
and friends established last year. She said caseworkers did not
understand Chinese mother-and-child bonding and forced Felix to consume
American foods he was not used to eating.
The experience basically broke the boy's spirit, said Chen, who added
she believes Felix would be alive if he had been left in her care.
"The lack of extra care he required as a child with special needs,
together with the lack of a nurturing surrounding, caused tremendous
physical and psychological pain to a 6-year-old who was forced to speak
and communicate in a language other than his mother tongue and
ultimately cost him his life," she said.
"The most tragic ending of a human life is from a broken heart, and I,
as his mother, cannot comprehend that my very own son died of a broken
heart."

Find your claim there, Greg?

Now if you had OTHER information you did NOT share here, and you want to
play your cute game of hide and seek combined with tag, you go ahead
while I laugh.

NOT sharing information and going nyah nyah nyah is a BullDoan.


Greg wrote
The law suit found that EXCUSE was IN ERROR.

Kane wrote
No it didn't. Settlement does not resolve guilt, innocence,
or produce a finding.

Would you like to take a survey on that?
Does paying 350 K out of court indicate no guilt?

I explained the process to you fully. You have aborted it and refuse to
acknowledge it. Before anyone answers I'll explain it again.

The state AGs office normally is involved in all phases of "Risk
Management." The term means lowering both the incidence OF risk going to
fruition...someone being injured or killed. The other part of risk
management is how to best proceed and manage the PEOPLE'S MONEY to
reduce the cost incurred.

It does not involve "confessing," or "admitting," or not admitting to
anything.

That is a matter that ONLY can be decided by what takes place in court,
from start to finish.

Settlements out of court are not to avoid an admission of guilt, but to
avoid cost.

And since guilt can ONLY be determined by the court, it is put aside
with the settlement.

The state AG will NOT allow a state employee to simply step up and say
"I did it, sue, me, hang me, and be done with it."

Nor would any responsible private attorney allow their client to do so.

Questions of guilt are extremely complex in many instances.

What YOU or I might think of as guilty may not be legally so at all.

And people can be innocent as lambs, and be found guilty anyway in a
juried trial.

I've seen justice undone by juries just as often as the reverse.

The question for the state, and the AG is cost. YOUR money, if it's your
state.

The outcome, of course, for the state and how it responds is much the
same as IF it were guilty and had been found so.

They will study this case, look carefully into how it should have been
handled, and proceed with new policy, more likely than not.

I doubt it will constitute what YOU want it to though. There will be no
firing squads at dawn.

The child might well have died in his mother's care. We simply don't know.

I'd like to have seen a trial and been able to sit in to hear testimony
and see evidence. Medical evidence as to the boys condition and what
really happened with the simple "hand tying."

The media is notorious for leaving things out, as we've all learned
here, your side and mine, or putting things in by clever wordage, that
aren't what they seem at all.

Betty, Ron?

Your ignorance is driven by psychological needs, Greg, I think. Get it
fixed.

It's not hard to apply logic to situations such as this, and a bit of
understanding of human nature and figure out more than the media offers.

But even with ONLY what they offered here, it was NOT a case of removing
the child for medical neglect.

Try again.

Kane

--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)

Doan wrote:

On Wed, 2 Aug 2006, 0:- wrote:

Copyright 2006 by The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This
material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/9613151/de...s=atl&psp=news


Fair use again, Kane? ;-)

Yep. Screech for us.


Doan




--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)

On Wed, 2 Aug 2006, 0:- wrote:

Doan wrote:

On Wed, 2 Aug 2006, 0:- wrote:

Copyright 2006 by The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This
material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/9613151/de...s=atl&psp=news


Fair use again, Kane? ;-)

Yep. Screech for us.

Will you ever learned? ;-)

Doan

Kane: Is Doan teasing you about copyright violation
just because you complained about the very same thing
so much and for so long?

Fair Use doctrine is intended to allow exactly the sort
of discussion and interaction we use it for in this newsgroup
isn't it?

Sounds like he was a very sick little boy. Tying of his hands was wrong, and I believe on some level that mother probably knew it was wrong otherwise why did she wait so long to try it? If I didn't believe/know it was wrong and my child was hitting and biting themselves, I would probably have tied the child's hands or otherwise restrained him as well.

I do believe that the state jumped the gun, and should have instructed the Mother not to tie the child. Perhaps even suggested their Dr. order a mild sedative to be given prior to catheterization. And perhaps have regular home visits with the family.

I do not believe that this was a "cultural" misunderstanding. That in my opinion is a red flag, whenever someone starts waving A Race, or Culture, or Religion card around I get suspicious. Does it happen absolutly, and i have seen it happen in my own multiracial, multicultural family, but that doesn't lesson the feeling of suspicion "if I can get people to believe that this is a race/culture/religious attack they will be more sympathetic to my plight"

Originally Posted by Greegor

Felix Chen
http://www.indiana.edu/~acc/graphics/monroe-lib-sm.jpg

State settles in death of boy taken from mother
http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dl...72/1006/NEWS01
July 13, 2006
State settles in death of boy taken from mother
$350,000 to be paid to parents; child was removed after mom had sought
help
By Tim Evans and Eunice Trotter

The parents of a 6-year-old boy, who was taken from his mother by
Monroe County child protection workers and died three months later in
foster care, will get $350,000 to head off a lawsuit over the death.
The settlement, filed Wednesday in Monroe Circuit Court, will end a
federal wrongful-death suit brought by the parents of Felix Chen. They
contend the boy was wrongly removed in 2004 from his mother, Indiana
University biology Professor Lingling Chen, because social workers did
not understand her Chinese cultural heritage. They also claim the boy
did not receive adequate medical treatment while he was in the state's
care.
"I hope this settlement . . . should help to pressure the system to
make some drastic measures to prevent similar things from happening to
another child and another family," Chen said. The state of Indiana --
on behalf of the Family and Social Services Administration, the Monroe
County Office of Family and Children and several employees -- has
agreed to pay $250,000 to Chen and Felix's father, Xiaohau Huang, La
Jolla, Calif., in exchange for dropping the federal claim and releasing
the state from any future liability. Family Solutions, a Monroe County
nonprofit agency that provides contract services to the state and
triggered the removal of Felix, will pay $100,000 under the same
conditions. The agreement states the payments are "not to be construed
as an admission of liability" by the state or Family Solutions and that
the settlement was reached "merely to avoid litigation and buy their
peace." Chen's attorney, Geoffrey M. Grodner, Bloomington, said that
type of language is standard for pretrial settlements. "It will be up
to the people of the state to reach their own conclusions as to whether
the state acknowledged some potential liability in this matter," he
said. "There was clearly a lack of cultural sensitivity and a failure
on the part of the state and Family Solutions to recognize that some of
what they considered to be a basis for removing Felix was simply a
failure to understand cultural differences." Staci Schneider,
spokeswoman for the attorney general's office, which represented the
state in the legal case, confirmed the settlement but said she could
not discuss details. A spokeswoman for the state Department of Child
Services, which now oversees Child Protective Services, did not return
a call Wednesday, and officials of Family Solutions could not be
reached for comment.
Grodner said Chen, a single mother and busy professional, struggled
with Felix, who suffered from a kidney problem that required Chen to
catheterize him when he had trouble urinating. The pain sometimes
prompted Felix to bite and hit himself and others. At the suggestion
of a counselor, Chen voluntarily sought help from the Monroe County
Office of Family and Children, which referred her to Family Solutions.
After five visits with Chen and Felix during late 2003, a Family
Solutions social worker developed a plan for helping Felix. When she
met with the social worker on Jan. 8, 2004, to learn details of the
plan, Chen casually mentioned she had come up with a way to keep Felix
from hitting himself: She tied his hands with a terry cloth belt from a
bathrobe. "Under difficult situations, I had to resort to some
unharmful restraint before he could hurt himself," Chen said Wednesday.
"Without investigating the complex situation, OFC rushed into
conclusion that I didn't understand American law." Chen said the
social worker never told her tying Felix's hands was wrong or illegal
-- instead, she reported the mother to Child Protective Services. The
following day, a caseworker and two Bloomington police officers came to
her home and took Felix, who was placed in a foster home. "From that
moment on," Grodner said, "the result was a downward spiral in his
health that ultimately resulted in Felix's death." Chen said Felix's
health problems had been improving before he was put in foster care but
rapidly deteriorated. He was hospitalized several times while in state
care in the months before his death.
He died April 1, 2004 -- a day after Chen was told by child protection
officials that he would soon be returned to her. Now that the legal
case has been resolved, Chen said she hopes to use money from the
settlement to try to prevent similar tragedies through a foundation she
and friends established last year. She said caseworkers did not
understand Chinese mother-and-child bonding and forced Felix to consume
American foods he was not used to eating.
The experience basically broke the boy's spirit, said Chen, who added
she believes Felix would be alive if he had been left in her care.
"The lack of extra care he required as a child with special needs,
together with the lack of a nurturing surrounding, caused tremendous
physical and psychological pain to a 6-year-old who was forced to speak
and communicate in a language other than his mother tongue and
ultimately cost him his life," she said.
"The most tragic ending of a human life is from a broken heart, and I,
as his mother, cannot comprehend that my very own son died of a broken
heart."

IU professor whose son died in foster care gets $350,000
http://www.fortwayne.com/mld/newssentinel/15025583.htm
Fort Wayne News Sentinel, IN - Jul 12, 2006 The
parents of Felix Chen said their son was wrongly
removed from his mother's care in 2004, and that
the boy did not receive adequate medical
treatment while ...

Dead child's family deserved more from state
http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dl...352/-1/ZONES01
Indianapolis Star, United States - Jul 19, 2006
I cannot imagine the confusion and heartbreak
that Felix Chen felt when he was taken from
his mother. For a 6-year-old child to ...

IU professor whose son died in foster care gets $350,000
http://www.wthr.com/Global/story.asp...&nav=menu188_2
WTHR, IN - Jul 13, 2006 The parents of Felix
Chen say their son was wrongly removed from
his mother's care in 2004, and that the
boy didn't receive adequate medical treatment
while in ...

No. I am just pointing his stupidity publicly! Fair use is up to the
judgement of the copyright holder. It doesn't give you to right to
reprint the whole article; especially when the copyright notice explicitly
said NOT to. You gotta be really really STUPID like ignoranus Kane0 not
to see that! ;-)

Doan


On 3 Aug 2006, Greegor wrote:

Kane: Is Doan teasing you about copyright violation
just because you complained about the very same thing
so much and for so long?

Fair Use doctrine is intended to allow exactly the sort
of discussion and interaction we use it for in this newsgroup
isn't it?