14yr old girl, 19yr old boyfriend

"Daniel" wrote in message ...

I've NOT been telling her how bad she is...& like I said, the problem
wasn't
from the start, it only happened before this guy. I do keep up with her
teachers (have had problems contacting them though). Other activities
dont
work, tried them, she dropped EVERYTHING (even communication with me) for
him. The problem is preventing her to build the alter to make offerings &
sacrifices to him next.

Hm... Someone, please, correct me if I'm wrong, but did Daniel not say
something in regards to s some big raid or something in Sept of 2003? That
alone leads me to believe that the problems had started long before Mr.
Wonderful stumbled into her life and swept her off her precious feet to take
her to Paradise. If he was around even before that, I still stick to that
there were some problems even before Mr. Wonderful.

The main problem is taking someone who was doing good before they met him,
getting them to realize what they're in, & then reversing her to the way
she
was before meeting him.

No, that is where you are wrong. I speak STRAIGHT from experience, FIRST
HAND. Doesn't matter who initiated any type of "relationship" or who did
what, when and where. She is to be blamed just as much as he is, because
from all you've said, not once did it cross my mind that he is the one who
is FORCING her to stick herself to him like gum on the bottom of your shoe.
I met a loser, he can be blamed for everything possible, or I can take some
responsibility that it was MY decision, and my decision alone, to stick with
this said loser. If she was so 'good' before, then there would have been no
other reason for her to be attracted to him except if she really wasn't as
'good' as you believe her to be. You said yourself that only within the
last couple years you have actually had closer and constant contact with
her. How on earth can you jump to such conclusions as you have? Your
sister needs to find a way to take some responsibility in this, although
that's not really an option right now, but it very well might be when she
ends up being a 15 year old, single mom, missing out on almost ALL of her
teenage years to get up every 3 hours day in and day out to feed, change,
bathe, cradle and sing to a baby. When she is put in the position of having
to give up her youth at a young age because she is no longer the child,
maybe then it will hit her hard. Took that for me, and from experience, I
hope to hell that it doesn't take that for her.
Friday night. Guess where I am? Home. Guess what I'm doing tonight? I'm
not hitting the bars to drink myself silly and stand around with a mic in my
drunken face while going to karaoke with friends my age because I have to
put pj's on, read bedtime stories, give out hugs and kisses and goodnight's,
then be up nice and early before 8am on a Saturday morning because that's
the latest my day has to actually start.
Yup, I'm not quite 21, even, and I have 2 sons who are just over 3 and 4.
My actions and decisions have had consequences, and I got myself into it,
and I'll be damned if I don't make the absolute best of it. MY actions. MY
decisions. MY responsibilities.
Don't go around blaming this all on your lovely and perfect little sis' Mr.
Wonderful, because, in all reality, blame the girl as much as the boy.

'Kate wrote in message ...
On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 14:36:16 -0500, "P.Fritz"



I don't know about calling her normal ;-) but again, I see the root
cause of it from an almost total rejection by her biological father.

I don't remember the father being mentioned.

'Kate

I recall something about him not ever being around, other than once in a
blue moon to bring her money and his apologies of not being around and empty
promises of changing that.

"V" wrote in message ...

Not a pedophile, but a statuatory rapist. The legal age is 18. He needs to
abide by that rule. She is too young for him and someone has got to put
their
foot down or she will be posting to this group, as a single mother. Hi, I
am a
15 y/o with a newborn. Come on!
V

Every place is different. I'm not sure if it's been established where
abouts in this world that Daniel is, but here I know for sure the age of
consent is 14. And... Although I'm not 100% sure, I think it goes something
like age of consent is 14, and up to a 10 year age difference OR something
similar to that. I know for sure that at 14, a girl/boy can have sexual
relations with a 19 year old man/woman.
And, in all reality, I should be stepping out of this entire conversation
before I really do lose it. I WAS in that position. I had just turned 16
when my first son was born. Go figure. I had just turned 17 when my second
was born. Only now, though, I can take responsibility for my own actions.
I seriously do need to put this entire thread on ignore...

"Daniel" wrote in message ...


The emotional effects of
giving your kid up for adoption dont work on someone who only met their
brother & sister a few years ago because similar situation happened to
them.
She understands what that did to HER (our) mother & to us as well.

Ok, seriously. You need to shut the **** up. Hit another nerve on me and
you'll regret everything you've ever said. Take this as the warning it is,
not as a threat it isn't.

"Daniel" wrote in message ...
'Kate wrote in message ...
"xkatx" wrote in message ...
"Daniel" wrote in message ...
I'm posting in here because I've not got much (if any) help
elsewhere.
Sorry
if this is somewhat long, but allot is going on.
snip


Wow. This hits me damn close to home. Reading this, I honestly saw
myself
in a lot of it. To be completely honest, I can really say, "Been
there,
done that!"

I was 15. I had a "boyfriend" who was 20, but had the mentality of a
13
year old, I see now. He was slow, stupid, had no ambition, no job, no
home
aside from living off his 18 year old brother, who was also trying to
support their mother and a cousin of about the same age. I got into
'hanging' out with him, and his brother/cousin, and next thing I knew,
I
was
15 years old, pregnant, and even before they knew I was pregnant, I was
already on bad terms with them. My grades in school dropped because I
had
just stopped going to school all together, just to go hang out at his
trashy
little apartment. I now see everything had broken my parents' (and
family's) heart to have to go through it all, and all because of me.
If
what you say is really how everything is, I can GUARANTEE you that
she's
going to end up pregnant, and where do you think Mr. Wonderful will be?
He'll move on. If he shows such little respect for his own parents,
and
your sister right now, when the **** hits the fan, he'll be gone faster
than
a fart in the wind.

This child, and yes, she is still a child, needs to know that you do
love
her. She needs to be shown that you love her and care for her and
don't
want to hurt her. You need to enforce rules and yes, structure. This
is
YOUR house that she is living in. YOU make the rules. You are not her
father, and you aren't expected to be, but you just might be the best
male
role model she's ever had and maybe ever will have. You have taken on
the
parenting roll of your sister, and for that, I'd give you a pat on the
back
and my best wishes because I know it's hard. You need to be cutting
that
Internet, or putting limits on it. There's many, MANY programs for all
platforms and computers that will allow you to lock up your computer,
and
putting a password on your screen saver is useless because a quick
reboot
will disable that. Lock unauthorized users out of your system because
it's
your computer, your Internet, your power, your home, YOUR RULES. Limit
her
time on the telephone, and monitor her calls if you can. Sit beside
her
in
the same room and read a book while she's on the phone if you must, but
don't make it obvious that you're actually 'watching' her, if you can.
She'll give you looks of death the whole time, but looks can't kill.
Set
concrete rules, and let all rules have consequences, both 'good' and
'bad.'
If she doesn't want to live by your rules, then that's too bad for her.

Here, the age of consent is 14. I believe there's also x amount of
years
difference for minors, but I'm not 100% sure. Does she pay rent?
Bills?
Maybe she can get a job to fill some time, although I know that's an
impossible thought. I honestly don't know what to suggest because I
was
on
her side at that age, not yours. Send her to me for a month and she
can
find out what the reality is of being a single, teen parent, and having
2
babies long before her 18th birthday.

There's a lot you can use to fill up her time, like said before, sports
teams, music lessons, teen church groups, rehab, since that's something
she
just might need, and if not right now, almost definitely in the near
future
if she keeps being so wild and a danger to herself, mainly, and those
who
actually do love her and care for her, and really, this little
boyfriend
of
hers does not appear to actually care for her.

I don't know. If anyone wants to flame, flame away. I've been through
the
EXACT same thing, as the wild teen, so I can definitely relate on a
very
high level, but as far as suggestions go, I'm all out of them.
How about the time you are going to be away (although I'm not sure why
you'd
go away, unless, of course, it is absolutely necessary) you can ship
her
off
to me and she can have a small taste of what could be reality. lol
(j/k)

Hey, Kat... hugs to you for speaking out about your own life to help
someone else. Nothing beats the voice of experience.

Yes...thanks.

Although it doesn't seem anything I, or really anyone, has said will help,
maybe after a second or third glance it might hold something. Seriously,
Daniel, everything and anything I've said (Including above, somewhere, where
I told you to shut the **** up) was not said because I wanted to be nasty or
mean or rude. Really, it was only a couple years ago that I was in your
sister's EXACT position. I'm not trying to be mean or hit below the belt,
and I'm not ever going to try and take cheap shots at you, your sister or
anyone involved. I survived, although maybe not in the 'ideal' way, but in
the long run, and still running, I have and continue to survive, although
sometimes barely.

"Tiffany" wrote in message
...

Daniel daniel_h_wATyyahooDOTccom wrote in message
...
"Tiffany" wrote in message
...

Daniel daniel_h_wATyyahooDOTccom wrote in message
...
Wow....

That is commendable that you are taking care of your sister. I am
going
to
leave the issues about getting evidence against the boyfriend to
others
who
may have dealt with the police in something like this. I will suggest
that
its likely even if you do get this boyfriend put away, there will just
be
another one to fill his void. This 14 year old has many issues going
on.
Abuse? Neglect? A father that doesn't care, ect. She is only 14 but it
sounds as though she has WAY to much freedom. Kids will do bad things
if
they have to much free time. I image you are working, as most of us
have
to
do and that it makes it hard for you to be with her all the time.
First,
she
needs to be seeing someone professional. She is drinking, doing drugs
and
I
hate to say this, I would bet it all she is having sex. Second, get
her
involved in some positive activities. Sports, community stuff,
anything
that
is around there. Third, I know we are need a break but you are leaving
for
spring break when you know that she is going to go wild. You took the
parent
role, its a full time job.

She has had activities in school...she dropped them for him & wont pick
up
more. Cancling this trip isn't an option at this point so thats why
I've
taken the proper precautions there & she will be watched very closely
(beleive it or not, I HAVE done ALLOT before posting here...this wasn't
my
first attempt to get help). Dont take this as a flame any more than
your
last sentence was a flame.



I am not taking anything as a flame..... just offering suggestions. No one
has assumed that you did nothing before posting here..... We can't know
exactly what all has been done so we start at the first steps.

But has she been to a professional yet? Also... .try a more technical type
newsgroup for all that spy stuff. I am sure they are out there. They will
have tons of knowledge.

I've got a crapload of software and recommendations for stuff like that.
Something like a crappy, downloaded 'firewall' (such as ZoneAlarm) won't
work. Although not quite like spying, have you ever considered something
that will lock unauthorized users out? Something like SystemSecurity2003 (I
believe it is) is perfect for the administrational part of computers.
Nothing can get through it without going through the 'admin' (you) and all
traffic in and out of the computer stays logged and kept readily available.
I've liked it. I used it when I had a deadbeat, leeching friend staying
with me for a little while. I found it very useful. lol


As more of the story unfolds though, I can't help but feel for her. She is
hurting, probably screaming inside, even depressed. This dickhead makes
her
feel special. You are so new in her life that she might not trust you
completely yet. Heck, by the sounds of it, she might not be able to trust
many people at all.

"xkatx" . wrote in message
newswv4c.791171$ts4.681593@pd7tw3no...

"V" wrote in message ...

Not a pedophile, but a statuatory rapist. The legal age is 18. He needs to
abide by that rule. She is too young for him and someone has got to put
their
foot down or she will be posting to this group, as a single mother. Hi, I
am a
15 y/o with a newborn. Come on!
V

Every place is different. I'm not sure if it's been established where
abouts in this world that Daniel is, but here I know for sure the age of
consent is 14. And... Although I'm not 100% sure, I think it goes something
like age of consent is 14, and up to a 10 year age difference OR something
similar to that. I know for sure that at 14, a girl/boy can have sexual
relations with a 19 year old man/woman.
And, in all reality, I should be stepping out of this entire conversation
before I really do lose it. I WAS in that position. I had just turned 16
when my first son was born. Go figure. I had just turned 17 when my second
was born. Only now, though, I can take responsibility for my own actions.
I seriously do need to put this entire thread on ignore...



Where do you live?
Statutory laws are usually similar.
V

"xkatx" . wrote in message
news:fCv4c.789147$X%5.714630@pd7tw2no...

"Daniel" wrote in message ...


The emotional effects of
giving your kid up for adoption dont work on someone who only met their
brother & sister a few years ago because similar situation happened to
them.
She understands what that did to HER (our) mother & to us as well.

Ok, seriously. You need to shut the **** up. Hit another nerve on me and
you'll regret everything you've ever said. Take this as the warning it is,
not as a threat it isn't.


kat you have the right to hit "ignore".
I argue in a lot of my newgroups and threats and warning are to be taken
seriously. Just what do you think you are going to do? Go where he is and kick
his ass because he has a different opinion.
Come on girl!
V

"V" wrote in message
...


Where do you live?
Statutory laws are usually similar.
V


here is a link to stat rape laws by state.
fyi.
V

"lm" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 12:45:20 -0500, "P.Fritz"
wrote:


"lm" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 10:41:53 -0600, 'Kate wrote:

On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 07:43:47 -0600, "Daniel"
daniel_h_wATyyahooDOTccom

Been doing that...the reason I say it doesn't work is that there
isn't
much
left to take...

Yeah, just the internet and the phone. Consistancy, routine, and
dependability will have to do then. If her relationship with you is
easier than her relationship with the 19 year old, then she'll be more
likely to give that up.



I've NOT been telling her how bad she is...

I figured you weren't overtly telling her that she was but because I
have no way of knowing that, I felt strongly about putting it out
there
and letting you deny it.

& like I said, the problem wasn't
from the start, it only happened before this guy. I do keep up with
her
teachers (have had problems contacting them though).

I'm glad to hear that you are. It's very important. They can fax you
if
you can't keep in touch with them via phone.

Other activities dont
work, tried them, she dropped EVERYTHING (even communication with me)
for
him. The problem is preventing her to build the alter to make
offerings
&
sacrifices to him next.

Or finding ways to open communication up between you again. She
doesn't, I'm sure, want to feel like she's doing everything wrong and
that she should be beholden to you (even if she is). We all need some
pride. He is giving her something that she needs or he wouldn't be
able
to influence her. She is probably putting out to get what she needs
emotionally - to be appreciated and feel loved for who she is and not
someone else's ideal of who she should be or what she should be doing.
"I love you but" is the worst phrase I've ever heard.

I think you're going to have to enlist her help in providing what she
needs from you. Outright ask her, aside from carte blanche with her
boyfriend, what one thing would improve your relationship with her.
Start there and make sure you get something out of it. For example,
if
you give her X, then you want Y in return.


The main problem is taking someone who was doing good before they met
him,
getting them to realize what they're in, & then reversing her to the
way
she
was before meeting him.

I don't think you can stuff her back into the pre-teen box. The 19
year
old has influence over her. This has become a fight and she's rooting
for the other side. If she sees an effort from you to change the
present, then maybe, in time she will meet you more than half-way.

This hasn't been just since the boyfriend, BTW. There were problems
before that directly relate to what is going on now. All the blame is
not the boyfriend's. The solution is not just get rid of the
boyfriend.
The solution is to fix the problems that resulted in her feeling that
a
19 year old boyfriend is appropriate.

Yes, definitely. Daniel, you and she had no time to establish a
relationship before all this happened. So unfortunately you don't know
each other well, don't have a give-and-take, don't have basic rules
for around the house. You're reacting to each other and to events. You
need to take a breather from the power struggle that's going on and
talk/listen to each other. Is there someone local, maybe with the
foster care agency, who can serve as a social worker/mediator? You
can't parent by surveillance, I understand your need to document this
guy's predatory behavior, but as far as working with her, you need to
communicate face to face.

I wouldn't necessarily label the guy a predator, sounds more like a jerk
that can't establish a relationship with someone his own age, or perhaps
has
the maturity of a 14 y.o.

And I also get tired of people lumping them together with
pedophiles..............a 14 y.o. girl while emotionally immature is
phyically an adult. Hell, a century ago, that was 'marrying' age.

But now it's not marrying age, not by a long shot. I consciously did
not call him a pedophile, but I would definitely call his behavior
predatory. He knows damn well what he's doing. He knows she's
vulnerable and he knows his presence is destabilizing what there is of
her home life. He's sniffing out weakness. Has nothing to do with her
age.

Anyway the focus of my post was that Daniel has got to talk to his
sister separate from the surveillance.

I talked to her allot already. It so far has done nothing. In early
february she wanted me to trust her more & to talk to her more & be more
honest with her & her with me. Since then she has went behind my back, lied
to me, skipped school, had her grades go down more...