Hello and breastfeeding question

Hello Everybody

I've been lurking for a few weeks to see what this group is like and thought
I'd better introduce myself now.

I'm Ellie, expecting IVF twins on teh 9th November, after many years of
trying!

The group is great and I've already had lots of good info but I have got a
question about breastfeeding. I REALLY want to breastfeed and then move
onto expressed breastmilk when I have to go back to work and my DH gets to
take the nightshift instead! Any advice will be greatly appreciated on any
aspect of breastfeeding twins.

Ellie

Hi, just to make the logistics of it easier, those angled cushions from
Blooming Marvellous are 'marvellous' for breast feeding and bottle feeding,
they're a bit like a neck pillow but on a bigger scale. I used to lay the
twins one either side with their heads together in front of me and hey
presto!! they're really secure and you can relax and enjoy.
Tanya
Ellie wrote in message
...
Hello Everybody

I've been lurking for a few weeks to see what this group is like and
thought
I'd better introduce myself now.

I'm Ellie, expecting IVF twins on teh 9th November, after many years of
trying!

The group is great and I've already had lots of good info but I have got a
question about breastfeeding. I REALLY want to breastfeed and then move
onto expressed breastmilk when I have to go back to work and my DH gets to
take the nightshift instead! Any advice will be greatly appreciated on
any
aspect of breastfeeding twins.

Ellie

Ellie wrote:
Hello Everybody

I've been lurking for a few weeks to see what this group is like and thought
I'd better introduce myself now.

I'm Ellie, expecting IVF twins on teh 9th November, after many years of
trying!

Congratulations, times two! My best wishes for a happy, healthy
pregnancy / rwst of pregnancy

The group is great and I've already had lots of good info but I have got a
question about breastfeeding. I REALLY want to breastfeed and then move
onto expressed breastmilk when I have to go back to work and my DH gets to
take the nightshift instead! Any advice will be greatly appreciated on any
aspect of breastfeeding twins.

Good for you to be thinking of this early -- breastfeeding is a
wonderful thing to do for your little ones, and yes, it can be done.

These are thoughts off the top of my head (while I pump milk for some
bottle feeding by dad and Grandpa later!), so bear with me. I only have
a few minutes so I'll start with the basics first...I'll address
breastfeeding first, since your second concern, going back to work,
*will* happen after you've had a good start with your little ones. If I
have time, I'll write about pumping, storing milk, etc.,
I recommend a few things as the basics:
-- a good twin breastfeeding pillow, something made for two babies.
Mine is made by a local mother of twins who sells hers within the
parents of twins club, but there are others online (you don't mention
where you live). You could ask for one of these as a shower or baby
gift, or invest the money yourself. EVERYONE I know with twins suggests
one of these, including those who didn't breastfeed long (it was still
useful in other ways).
-- a good book on breastfeeding (since the reasons for breastfeeding and
the techniques are the same for one as two or more), like _So That's
What They are For_. Again, a lot of moms I know *swear* by this book
for giving them the basics of breastfeeding in an interesting, easy to
read manner without "lecturing" at you!

--If you want more information or like reading, you should also read a
good book on breastfeeding for twins, the La Leche League's _Mothering
Multiples_ (Note that most books about twin parenting seem to be less
enthusiastic about breastfeeding and/or contain inaccurate advice about
how to start and maintain breastfeeding. This one's a good one, if a
little preachy and biased at times.) This book is also a good general
parenting book as well, so worth reading at any rate.

(I packed this one in my bag for the hospital, and used it often in the
early days! I'm still referring to it from time to time,
introducing solids, dealing with going back to work, that sort of thing)


--Get support at home. You'll **need** help anyway, and it's easier to
breastfeed two (even if one at a time) than find the time and money for
bottles of formula, **especially** in those early weeks and months when
everything's a challenge. One of the reasons it's easier is because you
can feed two hungry babies at once, or cuddle one on the pillow while
the other nurses; it's more difficult to feed two babies by bottle at
the same time without help (Ask my husband, who's alone with the babies
2-3 times a week).

--Get support outside the home. Join a group of parents of multiples in
your area. I'm not sure where you're posting from, but there are
national, state/provincial and local/city groups of parents of
twins/triplets and more. Seek out help from the group about twin
breastfeeding...try to find someone who is/was successful with
breastfeeding and pumping.
Support outside the home includes visiting a breastfeeding clinic (if
there's one around) and/or seeing lactation consulatants as you're able.
We had no real problems but found it great to have that support and
contact. We went weekly for the first month or so, and then still drop
in every once in a while with questions. We got excellent information
about solids and general health issues from our nurses/LCs on our last
visit, in fact.

--Tell the hospital staff **not** to allow bottles at all, and to
consult you if they want to give anything at all. In my case, I had a
very serious post partum condition so the staff gave my girls sugar
water, then formula, while I recovered...they used nasal tubes (down the
nose into the throat) to avoid any nipple confusion. This is *key* for
some babies, not to get bottles early.

--Be a little pigheaded about it. You've already got one of the
important elements to successful breastfeeding (and successful
parenting) -- a positive attitude with a willingness to learn and
prepare to apply those new skills! A little stubbornness in this regard
goes a long wya. Think of it this way: you don't wake up in the morning
and say you'll "try" to walk or drive to work. You know that technically
or literally there's some risk that you'll be hit by a bus or that your
car will break down, but you put those risks in the back of your mind
and go on with your day. Same with breastfeeding -- yes, there are
increased chances for difficulties with breastfeeding twins but the
longer you do it, and the more effort you put into it up front, the
better success you'll have.

And, as my late uncle used to say, "Don't let the turkeys get you down!"
Ignore people who say things like, "Oh, my milk dried up at 6 weeks"
(no, that was probably just a growth spurt, the baby drinking more to
increase production...), "You won't have time to nurse two" (actually
it's faster to breastfeed two - once everyone's learned how - than suse
bottles; and heck, babies take time to care for anyway!), "I couldn't do
it so you can't" (IU heard this directly and indirectly from other
mother sof twins, and it wasn't true for me. I've had a very positive
breastfeeding experience, in fact)

Finally, on pumping - I have to sign off here, but here are a few
tho8ughts:"
(If I don't have time - here's my pumping advice in a nutshell --
Don't worry about pumping before 6-7 weeks unless your children need it
(in hospital),
Get a good quality double pump, like the Medela Pump in Style. A
single pump won't likely help you enough -- you'll need soemthing
stronger and faster.
Try to build up a stash in your freezer a month or so before you go back
to work. Drink lots of water.
Make arrangements with your boss or employer to pump at work on breaks,
at a regular interval.
Nurse lots whenever you are home/have time)

In summary: Get support from a pillow, from family, from parents who've
"been there". Get information. Get to it ;-)

Hope this helps,
Barbara

Julie Seely wrote:
Hi, Ellie, and welcome --

I breastfed my two for 16 months, but I worked only one day/week.

The *best* advice I got was to stick with it for six weeks, even if it's
going poorly. In my case, that meant a lot of pumping and
bottle-feeding, as my two arrived 5+ weeks early and took a long time to
learn to nurse, but yes, at six weeks all of the early problems were
gone.

Yes, this is true for singletons and twins! Six weeks is the major
turning point in breastfeeding and general infant care, I've found.
Making 6 weeks your mini-goal may help a lot.
Haivng the major goal of one year looming can be daunting....and six
weeks is a good first step, especially if you're facing extra challenges
like pumping for children in the hospital, fighting post partum issues
and the like.

Good luck!
--Barbara

Ducky Lawyer wrote:


Ellie wrote:

Hello Everybody

I've been lurking for a few weeks to see what this group is like and
thought
I'd better introduce myself now.

I'm Ellie, expecting IVF twins on teh 9th November, after many years of
trying!


Congratulations, times two! My best wishes for a happy, healthy
pregnancy / rwst of pregnancy

The group is great and I've already had lots of good info but I have
got a
question about breastfeeding. I REALLY want to breastfeed and then move
onto expressed breastmilk when I have to go back to work and my DH
gets to
take the nightshift instead! Any advice will be greatly appreciated
on any
aspect of breastfeeding twins.

Good for you to be thinking of this early -- breastfeeding is a
wonderful thing to do for your little ones, and yes, it can be done.

These are thoughts off the top of my head (while I pump milk for some
bottle feeding by dad and Grandpa later!), so bear with me. I only have
a few minutes so I'll start with the basics first...I'll address
breastfeeding first, since your second concern, going back to work,
*will* happen after you've had a good start with your little ones. If I
have time, I'll write about pumping, storing milk, etc.,
I recommend a few things as the basics:
-- a good twin breastfeeding pillow, something made for two babies. Mine
is made by a local mother of twins who sells hers within the parents of
twins club, but there are others online (you don't mention where you
live). You could ask for one of these as a shower or baby gift, or
invest the money yourself. EVERYONE I know with twins suggests one of
these, including those who didn't breastfeed long (it was still useful
in other ways).
-- a good book on breastfeeding (since the reasons for breastfeeding and
the techniques are the same for one as two or more), like _So That's
What They are For_. Again, a lot of moms I know *swear* by this book
for giving them the basics of breastfeeding in an interesting, easy to
read manner without "lecturing" at you!

--If you want more information or like reading, you should also read a
good book on breastfeeding for twins, the La Leche League's _Mothering
Multiples_ (Note that most books about twin parenting seem to be less
enthusiastic about breastfeeding and/or contain inaccurate advice about
how to start and maintain breastfeeding. This one's a good one, if a
little preachy and biased at times.) This book is also a good general
parenting book as well, so worth reading at any rate.

(I packed this one in my bag for the hospital, and used it often in the
early days! I'm still referring to it from time to time,
introducing solids, dealing with going back to work, that sort of thing)


--Get support at home. You'll **need** help anyway, and it's easier to
breastfeed two (even if one at a time) than find the time and money for
bottles of formula, **especially** in those early weeks and months when
everything's a challenge. One of the reasons it's easier is because you
can feed two hungry babies at once, or cuddle one on the pillow while
the other nurses; it's more difficult to feed two babies by bottle at
the same time without help (Ask my husband, who's alone with the babies
2-3 times a week).

--Get support outside the home. Join a group of parents of multiples in
your area. I'm not sure where you're posting from, but there are
national, state/provincial and local/city groups of parents of
twins/triplets and more. Seek out help from the group about twin
breastfeeding...try to find someone who is/was successful with
breastfeeding and pumping.
Support outside the home includes visiting a breastfeeding clinic (if
there's one around) and/or seeing lactation consulatants as you're able.
We had no real problems but found it great to have that support and
contact. We went weekly for the first month or so, and then still drop
in every once in a while with questions. We got excellent information
about solids and general health issues from our nurses/LCs on our last
visit, in fact.

--Tell the hospital staff **not** to allow bottles at all, and to
consult you if they want to give anything at all. In my case, I had a
very serious post partum condition so the staff gave my girls sugar
water, then formula, while I recovered...they used nasal tubes (down the
nose into the throat) to avoid any nipple confusion. This is *key* for
some babies, not to get bottles early.

--Be a little pigheaded about it. You've already got one of the
important elements to successful breastfeeding (and successful
parenting) -- a positive attitude with a willingness to learn and
prepare to apply those new skills! A little stubbornness in this regard
goes a long wya. Think of it this way: you don't wake up in the morning
and say you'll "try" to walk or drive to work. You know that technically
or literally there's some risk that you'll be hit by a bus or that your
car will break down, but you put those risks in the back of your mind
and go on with your day. Same with breastfeeding -- yes, there are
increased chances for difficulties with breastfeeding twins but the
longer you do it, and the more effort you put into it up front, the
better success you'll have.

And, as my late uncle used to say, "Don't let the turkeys get you down!"
Ignore people who say things like, "Oh, my milk dried up at 6 weeks"
(no, that was probably just a growth spurt, the baby drinking more to
increase production...), "You won't have time to nurse two" (actually
it's faster to breastfeed two - once everyone's learned how - than suse
bottles; and heck, babies take time to care for anyway!), "I couldn't do
it so you can't" (IU heard this directly and indirectly from other
mother sof twins, and it wasn't true for me. I've had a very positive
breastfeeding experience, in fact)

Finally, on pumping - I have to sign off here, but here are a few
tho8ughts:"
(If I don't have time - here's my pumping advice in a nutshell --
Don't worry about pumping before 6-7 weeks unless your children need it
(in hospital),
Get a good quality double pump, like the Medela Pump in Style. A
single pump won't likely help you enough -- you'll need soemthing
stronger and faster.
Try to build up a stash in your freezer a month or so before you go back
to work. Drink lots of water.
Make arrangements with your boss or employer to pump at work on breaks,
at a regular interval.
Nurse lots whenever you are home/have time)

In summary: Get support from a pillow, from family, from parents who've
"been there". Get information. Get to it ;-)

Barbara has pretty much covered it all.

I guess the only thing I would stress is the danger of early
introduction of bottles. One of my twins ended up nipple confused due
to bottles in the hospital and as a result she would NOT nurse without
her brother starting the letdown. Actually, it was more of a bottle
preference but you get the idea.

If you absolutely have to supplement, consider getting a device like an
SNS or Lactaid.

Listen to Barbara, she's doing it. Nursing, working, pumping. These
are the type of people you want to surround yourself with (even if they
are virtual) and ditch the nay-sayers. Pig-headedness is a virtue in
this instance. :-)

--
Brigitte aa #2145
edd #3 February 15, 2004
http://www.babiesonline.com/babies/j/joshuaandkaterina/

"Readers are plentiful; thinkers are rare."
~ Harriet Martineau

Brigitte ) wrote:

Listen to Barbara, she's doing it. Nursing, working, pumping. These
are the type of people you want to surround yourself with (even if they
are virtual) and ditch the nay-sayers. Pig-headedness is a virtue in
this instance. :-)

Yup! And speaking of pig-headedness, one interesting statistic I've read is
that fewer mothers of twins may start out breastfeeding at all, but of those
who do, a much higher percentage than moms of singletons are still nursing at
one year.

In my own case, I know it was made easier for me in some respects *because* I
had twins -- because everyone in my family said Oh my gawd, twins, we have to
help! and came and helped me through the early weeks (doing everything *but*
feeding, I hardly changed a diaper for weeks). I don't think there would have
been such a concerted effort if I had just had one baby at a time :-)

--Helen

Subject: Hello and breastfeeding question
From: Digital Larry
Date: Fri, Aug 1, 2003 1:18 AM
Message-id: 1

Our boys never really got the hang of it. Born at 32 wks 5 d, they were

tube, then bottle fed in NICU for several weeks, no doubt that contributed

to the problem. DW did try repeatedly to BF in NICU with very limited
success. Also no experience as these are our first. Another problem was

that DW's nipples grew to about 5 times their normal size and preemie kids

had very hard time latching on as their mouths were pretty small. For the

record we did not make that excuse up, the doctor did.

I was not much help. I don't read too much about people who have NOT had

great success with BF, I think there is a great stigma associated with
this "failure" and few women are willing to get up in a public forum like

this and say "well it didn't work too well for me". I checked all the
responses so far and nobody said anything other than: it was hard but it

ultimately worked.

My wife felt terrible about it but was able to pump and get a little bit

less until 12 weeks where the amount she was getting was only about 5% of

their total intake. This stress combined with general exhaustion (we do

not have extensive network of able bodied in laws to take care of
everything - just us two trying to handle everything). When you put the

kid to the breast and he screams bloody murder and thrashes for 15 minutes,

then when you give him a bottle he is just ducky... how many times is the

average person going to repeat that scene?

Today she talked with a good friend who did NOT have twins, their son was

NOT premature, and had much the same issues and gave up after 3.5 months.

OB/GYN and Ped. were both supportive in the "do what you can do" and "don't

feel guilty" sort of way. I am just here to say that you may have an
immensely difficult time, esp. if you do not have successful BF experience

already and/or the active, ongoing support of other people with experience

or perhaps even a professional lactation consultant.

This may turn out to be a very unpopular point of view. I wish you the

best of luck.

applause

This is one issue that *really* pushes my buttons. I have seen so many women
beat themselves over not being able to breastfeed, even my own mother.

And don't get me started on 'professional' lactation consultants...

If you can breastfeed? That is wonderful. If for whatever reason it does not
work out you are *not* selfish or a failure and you are not going to 'poison'
your baby by using formula. Don't let *anyone* make you feel 'less than'
because of this issue. They do not have your body nor do they have your
children. Follow your gut and do what is best for *your* familly. Whatever
that turns out to be.

Off my soapbox...

Lori

Ducky Lawyer wrote:


snip

Off the top of my head, I'd say agree with you that one of the
challenges you faced was actually created by the hospital, giving your
premiees bottles. That's really too bad (hospitals do vary in this
respect; some would not have allowed/suggested bottles without
exhausting other methods for example.)


Ellie --

We've had a couple of women check in here re nipple confusion; I just
want to check in as someone whose kids did NOT experience it (though the
Lactation Consultant at the hospital, who was, in my opinion,
overzealous (especially while my hormones were bottoming out!!!), told
me that they WOULD have nipple confusion, and would NEVER nurse if I
started giving them bottles of expressed milk; my sister, who was in Med
school at the time, told me the same thing. The only dissenting opinion
on this was the kids' pediatrician, who said he thought they'd be just
fine, and that often "nipple confusion" was attributed to many unrelated
nursing problems experienced even by those whose kids had NEVER had
bottles -- bad latch, poor tongue positioning, etc. -- and though a
risk, it was NOT as common as the LC and my sister thought). The kids
were falling asleep immediately upon latching and getting no milk, a
common phenomenon with preemies, and after a few days, they were still
losing weight. I was offered the option of a supplemental nursing
system, but I didn't choose that option. I just pumped, and we gave the
kids bottles.

Once we got home (we never had help at night), it was frankly *much*
better that my husband could feed the babies in the middle of the night
if I was too exhausted to do so.

Just my experience, and I know that others' experience varies, but I
don't want you to think that nipple confusion is an absolute given.
It's not. The fear of it, though, is what made me make sure to let them
try to nurse at least a couple of times each day, so that they had
practice latching and sucking. Little by little, they stopped falling
asleep, and started actually nursing. Did that make a difference?
Maybe, maybe not. But I did it, so I'm passing it along.

snip
I think the tone and content of the responses is because the OP asked
for help with preparing to breastfeed, and we (the responders/posters)
respected that.

Yes, this is exactly why I framed my response positively. I also feel
it's important not to be hard on yourself if it doesn't work for you.
But it absolutely, positively can be done, and indisputably benefits the
babies.

Julie
Mom to Erica & Chris, 07/97

We did both bottles and BFing for 8 months. I didn't find BFing
particularly easier (sorry!), but stuck through it until the twins started
to walk at which time they didn't want to sit still and so they carried
their bottles, I continued to pump but that didn't pan out the way I wanted
to so in total we did 9 months of BFing of some kind. The twins never
seemed to have nipple confusion - our consultant actually said she didn't
see a problem as long the babies kept growing and didn't refuse the nipple
when offered. I heard from all kinds of moms who said they BF for over a
year etc, etc, but I did what I thought was right and comfortable for me.
We too had no support and it was just the two of us - my MIL didn't even see
the babies until they were 5 months old!!! My SIL never saw them until just
recently (8 years), I haven't any siblings and my dad did come to help when
he could but dad could only do laundry. So I think mom's need to be patted
on the back, and given hugs for whatever they mottle through this first
phase of mothering. BFing is wonderful but it too is a personal decision.

Shirley
Chris and Kathleen 1/95

"Julie Seely" wrote in message
...
Ducky Lawyer wrote:


snip

Off the top of my head, I'd say agree with you that one of the
challenges you faced was actually created by the hospital, giving your
premiees bottles. That's really too bad (hospitals do vary in this
respect; some would not have allowed/suggested bottles without
exhausting other methods for example.)


Ellie --

We've had a couple of women check in here re nipple confusion; I just
want to check in as someone whose kids did NOT experience it (though the
Lactation Consultant at the hospital, who was, in my opinion,
overzealous (especially while my hormones were bottoming out!!!), told
me that they WOULD have nipple confusion, and would NEVER nurse if I
started giving them bottles of expressed milk; my sister, who was in Med
school at the time, told me the same thing. The only dissenting opinion
on this was the kids' pediatrician, who said he thought they'd be just
fine, and that often "nipple confusion" was attributed to many unrelated
nursing problems experienced even by those whose kids had NEVER had
bottles -- bad latch, poor tongue positioning, etc. -- and though a
risk, it was NOT as common as the LC and my sister thought). The kids
were falling asleep immediately upon latching and getting no milk, a
common phenomenon with preemies, and after a few days, they were still
losing weight. I was offered the option of a supplemental nursing
system, but I didn't choose that option. I just pumped, and we gave the
kids bottles.

Once we got home (we never had help at night), it was frankly *much*
better that my husband could feed the babies in the middle of the night
if I was too exhausted to do so.

Just my experience, and I know that others' experience varies, but I
don't want you to think that nipple confusion is an absolute given.
It's not. The fear of it, though, is what made me make sure to let them
try to nurse at least a couple of times each day, so that they had
practice latching and sucking. Little by little, they stopped falling
asleep, and started actually nursing. Did that make a difference?
Maybe, maybe not. But I did it, so I'm passing it along.

snip
I think the tone and content of the responses is because the OP asked
for help with preparing to breastfeed, and we (the responders/posters)
respected that.

Yes, this is exactly why I framed my response positively. I also feel
it's important not to be hard on yourself if it doesn't work for you.
But it absolutely, positively can be done, and indisputably benefits the
babies.

Julie
Mom to Erica & Chris, 07/97

I just have to respond here. Larry, I'm sorry I wasn't on this list when you
and your wife were going through this, as I would have been quick to stand
up and say 'me too'. Our singleton DD was what our ped called a 'lazy baby'
who just didn't want to BF. She was one month old and still had not regained
her birth weight. So we reluctantly put her on formula and she gained 9 oz
weight in 4 days. It was a no-brainer for us - Alison officially became an
Enfalac girl.

When the boys were born, I had no compunction about choosing formula from
day 1. (There were a number of reasons for this decision, only one of which
was the previous lack of success.) I am fully aware that breastmilk is
nutritionally superior to formula, but you don't get the nutritional
advantage if you can't get the breastmilk into them!

I should also say that this NG has always been amazingly supportive about
the different choices that parents make - completely unlike every other
parent-related NG I have ever visited. This place has had discussions about
BF, spanking, sleeping, etc. but they have always been thoughtful and
respectful of other's opinions.

So for anyone on the NG, you will find lots of good advice and support for
breastfeeding multiples, but you will also find support if you choose for
whatever reason to use bottle-feeding instead.

Claudia (mom to Alison 8/95; Timothy and Cameron 4/99)

"Digital Larry" wrote in message
.11...
Our boys never really got the hang of it. Born at 32 wks 5 d, they were
tube, then bottle fed in NICU for several weeks, no doubt that contributed
to the problem. DW did try repeatedly to BF in NICU with very limited
success. Also no experience as these are our first. Another problem was
that DW's nipples grew to about 5 times their normal size and preemie kids
had very hard time latching on as their mouths were pretty small. For the
record we did not make that excuse up, the doctor did.

I was not much help. I don't read too much about people who have NOT had
great success with BF, I think there is a great stigma associated with
this "failure" and few women are willing to get up in a public forum like
this and say "well it didn't work too well for me". I checked all the
responses so far and nobody said anything other than: it was hard but it
ultimately worked.

My wife felt terrible about it but was able to pump and get a little bit
less until 12 weeks where the amount she was getting was only about 5% of
their total intake. This stress combined with general exhaustion (we do
not have extensive network of able bodied in laws to take care of
everything - just us two trying to handle everything). When you put the
kid to the breast and he screams bloody murder and thrashes for 15
minutes,
then when you give him a bottle he is just ducky... how many times is the
average person going to repeat that scene?

Today she talked with a good friend who did NOT have twins, their son was
NOT premature, and had much the same issues and gave up after 3.5 months.

OB/GYN and Ped. were both supportive in the "do what you can do" and
"don't
feel guilty" sort of way. I am just here to say that you may have an
immensely difficult time, esp. if you do not have successful BF experience
already and/or the active, ongoing support of other people with experience
or perhaps even a professional lactation consultant.

This may turn out to be a very unpopular point of view. I wish you the
best of luck.