A Parenting & kids forum. ParentingBanter.com

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » ParentingBanter.com forum » alt.parenting » Spanking
Site Map Home Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

What has hapenned to this group?



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #141  
Old January 23rd 06, 08:04 AM
beccafromlalaland beccafromlalaland is offline
Senior Member
 
First recorded activity by ParentingBanter: Dec 2005
Posts: 108
Default

I am now so lost and confused I don't know which end is up. LOL.
__________________
Becca

Momma to two boys

Big Guy 3/02
and

Wuvy-Buv 8/05
  #142  
Old January 24th 06, 02:07 AM posted to alt.parenting.spanking,alt.support.child-protective-services,alt.support.foster-parents,misc.kids
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default What has hapenned to this group?

Doan wrote:
On 22 Jan 2006, 0:- wrote:


Doan wrote:

On Sat, 14 Jan 2006, toto wrote:


On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 15:32:47 -0800, Doan wrote:


On Sat, 14 Jan 2006, toto wrote:


On 14 Jan 2006 06:34:33 -0800, "Ron"
wrote:


As I have said before, the 1 or two decades of biased "research"
you have available that may or may not support your theories pale in
comparison when placed next to the 10 to 20 Millennia of unbiased
historical fact.

I am not going by research, but on my own experience as both a
parent and teacher.


So your experience outtrumped the experience of hunmanity???


In preschool classes in particular, you can tell by behavior which
children were spanked and which were not. The children who are
spanked are much more likely to hit other kids when they are
frustrated or angry. Not that other children don't hit, but they get
the idea of solving problems using words much more quickly.


And how do know which children were spanked and which were not? Is this
data part of the school record?


We ask parents what discipline techniques they use and we observe how
they act around the children when they are at school as well. And, of
course, the children role play in the housekeeping corner. If you
don't think that the preschool teachers know a lot about what goes on
in your home, you are kidding yourself because 3 to 5 year olds are
the greatest mimics in the world and they often talk in their parents
voices.


Do you know how "unscientific" this method is? Do you keep records?
Do you allow for confounding factors? If you think that preschool
teachers know lot about what's going on in EVERY student house, YOU
ARE KIDDING yourself!


Where did toto claim it was scientific?


She didn't. I pointed it out to her that!


Which since she didn't make the claim, and you did not provide
"scientific" proof yourself, was a pointless criticism. Useless and
diverting.



Of course they keep records. It's the bane of school teachers. The
excessive record keeping. What do you think progress reports to parents
requires? Each childs file in the office?


On spanking???


Yes, she told you that. If she asks the parents what discipline methods
they use so you suppose they don't say they spank? Or deny it if they do?


How could they not allow for confounding factors?


Because it wasn't SCIENTIFIC!


Then everyone that comments on their experience is required to report
here only if they have conducted a study according to scientific reseach
protocols?

You'd hold the parents that come here that spank to this standard, would
you?


Who spends more time with a child in terms of hours and repetition
(five day a week contact for 9 months of the year)?


The parents! And not divided among 20-30 children as the case with
the classroom.


Sorrry. YOu are wrong. The parents have the children when the children
sleep 9 to 10 hours a night. Parents these days are very busy, with both
often working. The children are in afterschool daycare often as well.

The 6 hours of uninterupted observation of children in the company of
OTHER CHILDREN is exactly what toto was discussing. How they act with
other children. Social behaviors, just like the scientific studies
discussed in this ng so very many times.

The parents may well not see them much at all with other children.

16 hours a day are taken up with school (like more considering bus
travel and afterschool day care) leavening the parent at best, only 8
hours. Do you think they spend those 8 hours in the observation that
teachers do for 6? They have other children over and watch the social
interactions and behaviors?

How do kids find enough time for TV? R R R R R You do know how many
hours children average watching TV each week? Right?

Do the parents watch there TV watching behaviors?

toto said:
"If you don't think that the preschool teachers know a lot about what
goes on
in your home, you are kidding yourself because 3 to 5 year olds are
the greatest mimics in the world and they often talk in their parents
voices."

What's that got to do with "science," Doan?


Nothing!


Yep. So why bring up science other than to divert, dodge, mislead and
thereby lie?

Are you going to try and tell toto that children to not, for instance,
use the same language their parents use? They they do not reflect the
attitudes and biases of their parent? That children this age are not
mimicing their parents?


I don't know. You tell me.


YOu don't know, yet you know that parent's should decide whether or not
to spank. Interesting.

And yes, I'll tell you. Children mimic their parents rather a lot. They
also act out in ways that reveal much about their live when away from
the observer. What they see on TV. What they see with other children and
their parents when visiting. What they see and hear on the bus. Etc.

You do realise your answer, "you tell me" and "I don't know" is very
revealing in itself. You have a great number of opinions about children
for someone that does not know.

Including opinions about what others know about children.


Or that them doing so does not reflect what goes on in the home?


It migth and again, it might not!


It isn't all that hard to figure out.

Teachers are required in all states, as mandatory reporters to notify
child protection agenices of suspected abuse. Do you think the state
thinks they don't have insight into home life, or can't observe and
draw valid conclusions? If a child comes to school with belt marks on
their legs does the teacher not know something about what goes in the
home...particularly if she asks the child..which is highly likely?


Huh? What does this have to do with child abuse?


What do belt marks on a child's legs have to do with "child abuse?"

Gosh, you tell me. I don't know. 0;-


How could they not know a great deal about what goes on at home given
the propensity for kids to talk about their home life?


Because they are not there!


Can you tell if someone drinks a lot in their home by how they act in
public? I can.

It's obvious, as with a neighbor, when they come out the door, stagger
to their car, and back over their mailbox as they leave. That and the
stack of wine, liquor and beer bottles in their recycle bins.

If the child comes to school consistently marked, and it's not
consistent with those marks left by play accidents, then it's time to
check and see if they are being abused. Often that is the case.

Certain kinds of marks, by the way, simply don't happen from other
causes. A child might get a burn on one place on their body, but not
repeated patterns of burns over time (some partially healed and some
not) without abuse. Marks made by a coat hanger are very specific. So
are those made with a belt if the buckle end is used on the child.

Think teachers don't see these things? Think again.

And why did you provoke again with a an insult like, "YOU ARE KIDDING
yourself!" yelled at toto? That's not the Golden Rule your parents
taught you, is it? She informs you, and you scream at her? Is that what
you came to believe as a result of being spanked, that you have to
escalate?


LOL! why don't you ask toto to see if i insult her?


She might not be aware. Or care. Or wish to get into it with us.

I asked YOU the question, and YOU are not answering, again.

She did not yell at you.


Did I say she did?


Nope. You said you don't insult unless the other person does.


And teacher's classrooms have been the classic laboratory for behavior
investigations of children and their lives. There is a good reason to
use the classroom rather than other settings, such as playgrounds
(though they have been used on rare occasions), or the home, though it
too has been used.


LOL! Here you go with your "formidable research skill" again!


It as part of my profession for a number of years. Do you wish to argue
that school classrooms are NOT a common child behavioral research
location? And that somewhere else is more common?

"Pima Community College District Course Outlines for Early ...
... Assertive discipline; Glasser Model; Ginott Model; Dreikurs Model;
Adlerian Model; ...
principles, knowledge, and skills learned in classroom and laboratory
in real ...
http://www.pima.edu/~curonline/catcu...ines/ece-o.htm - 71k - Supplemental
Result - Cached - Similar pages"


LOL!


The nervous giggle at having been caught.


To suggest that teachers don't have insight into homelife by the
child's actions and revelations in the classroom is very much kidding
yourself, Doan. Now yell back at me and call me stupid.


I don't have to. You just proved it! ;-)


That I'm stupid? Posting information is stupid?


That SOME homelife is not revealed has to be true. But where else would
it be more revealed, when it is, than in the classroom?


LOL!


Another nervous giggle when you can't respond and have been caught in
yet another stupid mistake.


I expect an answer to that question. Where would you get better
information on what goes in in the home than from the classroom? How
available is the home, compared to the classroom to anyone collecting
such information? What artificial inhibiting constraints might be
involved in attempting to do in home observations that do not occur in
the classroom when the observer is the familiar teacher? Can the
teacher's report be more trusted than the parent's report on a child's
behavior? If not, why not?


How about a home visit? ;-)


You think the parent is going to not have a mitigating effect on the
child's behavior? Where are the other children to allow a social
behaviors observation?

Are you a classroom teacher? Full time so that you develop a trust
relationship with children? There is more reason for the term "in loco
parentis" than just to assign responsibility.


LOL!


Sorry to have embarassed you.


Have you observed children that are not spanked mixed with children
that are and seen their behaviors?


Yes! I saw YOU!


In other words, you have lost the debate and now have to resort to
nonsense. Can't answer the question, or won't.

I see.


If not how can you judge the validity of toto's experience?

Why should toto have to answer to your attacks when what she is doing
is relating her experiences and observations?


I didn't attack her.


You yelled. Not like you don't KNOW WHAT ALL CAPS MEAN IN A COMMENT.


That is your most frequent mode of "debate." Attack.


And you mode is what? Calling others a "smelly-****"?


No, dodging, attacking, provoking. Refusing to answer while demanding
other's do.


Instead of asking questions to learn more you ask them to attack. You
have a years long history of it, so don't bother to deny it.


LOL!


You seem to have a lot of embarassment in this exchange.


For instance, such rhetorical questions as 'Do you know how
"unscientific" this method is?'


So is it?


I do not know. I do know that reseachers collectin information from
teachers a great deal. Are they wrong to do so? Does it compromise the
scientific method? 0:-

And I said the question was rhetorical. Your question was not a question
for information but to claim that her method is not scientific, without
asking if she had ever done any, or participated in any scientific study.


What a pointless but attacking question that is. Of course she knows.
So what?


So she knows it is not science and yet you wanted me to believe that???


Believe what? That her observations have value? Do you think they don't?
If so why?

Do you think they do not reflect reality? A teacher could not work with
a class and the children in it effectively if the teacher were not
correct most of the time in their observations, any more than you could
drive down the street without a wreck if yours were not.

So, do you do scientific observations driving?

She was not trying in particular to be scientific and in fact anecdote
is but a small part of any investigation..but it can be useful to the
scientist to collect experiencial information. Many reputable studies
include them. And various forms of observation is ALL a teacher has.


LOL! "Unscientific" anecdotal evident is useful to scientist???
Logic and the anti-spanking zealotS.... ;-)


Yes, it certainly is.

Collected, tabulated, compared, they are quite useful. And it's very
logical to presume so.

Your question is nothing more than an insulting attack. You are
insulting because you are pretending she's trying to be scientific or
should be and is not doing so. You are fishing for ways to attack.


LOL! And you were not insulting when you call others "smelly-****"???


I don't recall claiming I don't insult. Do you?

Logic and the anti-spanking zealotS.... ;-)


You claimed you don't insult unless you are insulted first. I posted
citations of instances where you do indeed.

In fact your next questions and statements are a "you must use science
to be right" further attack.


LOL!


More discomfort? I wonder why?

"Do you keep records? Do you allow for confounding factors? If you
think that preschool
teachers know lot about what's going on in EVERY student house, YOU ARE
KIDDING yourself!"

And your last sentence is obviously incorrect. You have NO scientific
proof smile that teachers do not know "lot" about what's going on in
every student house. What is "lot?"


LOL!


So a "lot" is "LOL!" I thought so.


And why must it be "every?" On day one of the school year, they may
know nothing. By the end of that day they have started to. By school
year end they are going to know a great deal you cannot know, and in
fact, other than the parent, no one else would know more than the
teacher.


LOL!


You can't answer, so you nervously giggle.


They only need to know and can find out by asking, as she told you,
about spanking and home discipline, for the purposes of this
discussion. But they are likely to know considerable detail down to the
name of pet rat and how many in her last litter.


LOL!


Very revealing.

I gather you were spanked. I must be very observent or psychic, eh?


You obviously wish, rather than deal with and discuss her experiences
and what meaning those might have, to engage her in a "you are not
doing science" debate so you can attack the lack of scientific rigor of
her exerience.


snipping the rest of you ludricous babble. ;-)


You mean more "LOL!" was being too revealing?

You couldn't respond because you did not have an argument. Your dodging
today has taken on the amateurish nature of the newbie troll. You need
more practice.

Have a nice day!


Let me see. Lots of sun today. After lots of rain. My garden loves it. I
lifted another huge climbing rose today, trunks on it over an inch
thick, and transplanted it to a better spot over by the entryway to my
house. It will, when it comes back, along with the other two, make a
lovely shady passageway between the carport and the flowerbed as one
approaches the front door. Deep red roses. Not my favorite but my wife
is fond of them.

Dug a bunch of carrots the Elk didn't manage to get and took them over
and left them on the porch of the folks that provide my horse compost.
Sort of getting what comes out of one end to provide for the other end,
presuming they'll feed some to their horses.

What else did I do today? Oh yea, installed the backlighting behind my
row of computers, printers, and scanner. Very dramatic shining up the
cedar wall against the light pine ceiling and brings in more light in
the winter darkness.

"Nice day!?"

I had a wonderful day. YOU were the frosting on it. Thanks.


Doan


Ever yours, 0:-




--
Isn't it interesting that the more honest an author appears to be,
the more like ourselves we think him. And the less so, how very
alien he doth appear? Kane 2006
  #143  
Old January 26th 06, 04:20 AM posted to alt.parenting.spanking,alt.support.child-protective-services,alt.support.foster-parents,misc.kids
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default The logic of an anti-spanking zealotS


Kane said:
"Reading it is not the same as having read it. At that time I had not
completed reading it, but it was a delight to read."

LOL!

Doan

  #144  
Old February 9th 06, 12:21 PM posted to alt.parenting.spanking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default What has hapenned to this group?

That happens a lot on this group becca.


"beccafromlalaland"
wrote in message .com...

I am now so lost and confused I don't know which end is up. LOL.


--
beccafromlalaland



  #145  
Old February 9th 06, 01:21 PM posted to alt.parenting.spanking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default What has hapenned to this group?


Jeremy James wrote:
That happens a lot on this group becca.


becca, you might want to look into the posting history of this person
on Usenet. He appears to have a spanking fetish and apparently comes
here to engage people in conversations to that end. pun intended

Any discussion related to "spanking" get's them off, usually. Some
especially like to converse with the unsuspecting.

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.p...01ef58d3117 c
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.s...20a979d80c3cff







"beccafromlalaland"
wrote in message .com...

I am now so lost and confused I don't know which end is up. LOL.


--
beccafromlalaland


 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Group B Strep FAQ Cheryl Sandberg Info and FAQ's 0 December 19th 05 06:36 AM
Group B Strep FAQ Cheryl Sandberg Pregnancy 0 June 30th 05 05:29 AM
Group B Strep FAQ Cheryl Sandberg Pregnancy 0 December 29th 04 06:27 AM
Group B Strep FAQ Cheryl Sandberg Pregnancy 0 June 28th 04 07:42 PM
Yet another "ready for solids?" Akuvikate Breastfeeding 30 November 18th 03 03:15 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 04:08 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 ParentingBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.