ACFM against child abuse.

Dear Friends and dear Brethren and others,

Athens Christian Friends Meeting (T) after being led by the Spirit of
Christ on the subject and after earnest prayer for along time now has come
to believe that we must be perfected in love, for God is Love and in love
there is no fear. The 5th chapter of Matthew's Gospel, the 13th chapter of
1st Corinthians, etc. spoke to us deeply individually and corporately as a
Meeting.

We have a Ministry called Biblical Child Training Advocacy, this
Ministry is coming under the hands of the Meeting and stopping to exist as
is. Because of past and maybe wrong interpretations of certain Bible verses
we taught that children should be disciplined with the rod. We are led to
see that our view was in error. What children need is love, love brings
love. Discipline is also needed but everything should flow out of true love.
Therefore our Meeting is led to decla "After Meeting today and praying to
the Lord Athens Christian Friends Meeting is led to support any law which
would support innocent children. We think that a mild spanking (3 smacks)
would not harm a child but because of child abuse we will support any law to
end it. We are led to agree with what Friend Bill Samuel (on our Forum) said
concerning the need for Bible studies and family worship and we know that
love is the one thing needful. So Athens Christian Friends Meeting therefore
is willing to support a law against spanking if it will help children be
safe from abuse."

God Bless!

Th. Papaioannou

So Athens Christian Friends Meeting therefore
is willing to support a law against spanking
if it will help children be safe from abuse.

But what about the ABUSE CAUSED by such a law
in the hands of intrusive second guessing
socialist anti spank zealot bureaucrats?

Child REMOVAL is an abuse and the
inevitable result of any such law.
Is THAT what your ACFM supports?

Three smacks on the bottom would be ok?
Careful Padre, for the zealots would mark you
as a CHILD MOLESTOR for such things.

I suggest you get out of your ivory tower and
find out more, much MORE, about a very complex
issue before giving simplistic answers.

Second Guessing Parents? You support that?

If you are located in Greece, perhaps you just
don't know what is going on in the USA or most
other countries in regard to FAMILY ABUSE in
the vain name of PROTECTING CHILDREN.

It is as ironic and bitter sweet as the
"Health through Labor" sign over the gates
of the camp at Dachau.

If your religion wishes to step into action
regarding the Child Protection INDUSTRY and
it's ABUSES OF FAMILIES, I would be very
willing to make a case for that.

I suspect you just don't KNOW about that.
Much like the citizens of Dachau.

I personally have been marked by a caseworkers
FALSE WITNESS stating that I have a history
of Sexual Abuse, when in fact, I do not.
The Juvenile Court, the caseworkers and the
Child Protection agency have all refused to
correct what they know for a fact is false
information in the records. The proof is
in paper form, from THEIR OWN agency, old
documents.

I would say that if your sect is going to
take a stand, this ACTUAL situation should
come before some lofty idealistic political
support.

Surely you do not believe that caseworkers
who bear such FALSE WITNESS should be given
the power of such sweeping and powerful laws
over something as sacred as family bonds.
Perhaps this will communicate to you the
evil done by the caseworkers already given
entirely too much power to "play God" themselves.

I ask you on humanitarian grounds, if you
would intercede on my behalf by making a
formal request to the governor for the
investigation and correction of this
FALSE WITNESS in the case records.

I would of course provide you with the proof.

Humanitarian in that it has harmed the child
and her family. FALSE WITNESS has been used
and defended as "In the best interest of the child".

Do you believe that such a LIE benefits the child?

Judge not lest ye be Judged yourself.

Thou shalt not bear FALSE WITNESS.

I honestly think that you do not understand
the 41 BILLION DOLLAR Child Protection Industry
in America, a cartel of many THOUSANDS of people
all deriving financial benefit from imagined
and NOT CRIMINALLY PROVEN child abuse.
Most are NOT criminal cases, but worse, end up
removing children from their parents forever.

Greg in Iowa, USA

The fact that your group would support any law that abolishes spanking
is very good news indeed. While many of you still believe that it's
okay to hit children three times mildly, you recognize that allowing
children to be hit in the name of discipline sets the stage for child abuse.

You also recognize that in love there is no fear, and you recognize that
certain Bible versus may have been misinterpreted, thus resulting in the
faulty Biblical justification for disciplinary hitting of children.

By the nature of your post, I suspect it will not be long before the
Biblical Child Training Advocacy recognized that even hitting children
three times mildly in the name of discipline is not love, is not
Biblical, and is not good parenting. Parenting is about teaching.
Discipline is part of parenting. Hitting children, however mildly, is
neither discipline nor teaching, nor is it supported in the New Testament.

LaVonne

Th.Papaioannou wrote:
Dear Friends and dear Brethren and others,

Athens Christian Friends Meeting (T) after being led by the Spirit of
Christ on the subject and after earnest prayer for along time now has come
to believe that we must be perfected in love, for God is Love and in love
there is no fear. The 5th chapter of Matthew's Gospel, the 13th chapter of
1st Corinthians, etc. spoke to us deeply individually and corporately as a
Meeting.

We have a Ministry called Biblical Child Training Advocacy, this
Ministry is coming under the hands of the Meeting and stopping to exist as
is. Because of past and maybe wrong interpretations of certain Bible verses
we taught that children should be disciplined with the rod. We are led to
see that our view was in error. What children need is love, love brings
love. Discipline is also needed but everything should flow out of true love.
Therefore our Meeting is led to decla "After Meeting today and praying to
the Lord Athens Christian Friends Meeting is led to support any law which
would support innocent children. We think that a mild spanking (3 smacks)
would not harm a child but because of child abuse we will support any law to
end it. We are led to agree with what Friend Bill Samuel (on our Forum) said
concerning the need for Bible studies and family worship and we know that
love is the one thing needful. So Athens Christian Friends Meeting therefore
is willing to support a law against spanking if it will help children be
safe from abuse."

God Bless!

Th. Papaioannou

Greg Hanson wrote:

So Athens Christian Friends Meeting therefore
is willing to support a law against spanking
if it will help children be safe from abuse.


But what about the ABUSE CAUSED by such a law
in the hands of intrusive second guessing
socialist anti spank zealot bureaucrats?

Who are the "intrusive second guessing socialist anti spank zealot
bureaucrats? The people that removed your children for abuse?

Child REMOVAL is an abuse and the
inevitable result of any such law.
Is THAT what your ACFM supports?

Child removal is abuse? Tell it to the children I have worked with, and
my graduate students have worked with, Greg. Tell it to the little girl
who will never speak because her vocal cords are severely damaged by
being forced to drink tabasco sauce. Tell it to the little girl who is
now a teenager and can never have children because of the abuse she
suffered as a child. Tell it to the little boy who is permanently
disfigured because his mother threw hot water on his face to teach him
never to touch the stove.

For that matter, tell it to any child who is in a home where he/she is
being hurt. Tell the child no one cares.

Three smacks on the bottom would be ok?
Careful Padre, for the zealots would mark you
as a CHILD MOLESTOR for such things.

Three smack on the bottom should not result in removal. Three smacks on
the bottom should indicate that a parent is in desperate need of
information regarding alternative forms of parenting.

You are not for hitting, and you are legally protected. I am not for
hitting, and I am legally protected. It's now time for our children to
enjoy that protection.

LaVonne

I suggest you get out of your ivory tower and
find out more, much MORE, about a very complex
issue before giving simplistic answers.

Second Guessing Parents? You support that?

If you are located in Greece, perhaps you just
don't know what is going on in the USA or most
other countries in regard to FAMILY ABUSE in
the vain name of PROTECTING CHILDREN.

It is as ironic and bitter sweet as the
"Health through Labor" sign over the gates
of the camp at Dachau.

If your religion wishes to step into action
regarding the Child Protection INDUSTRY and
it's ABUSES OF FAMILIES, I would be very
willing to make a case for that.

I suspect you just don't KNOW about that.
Much like the citizens of Dachau.

I personally have been marked by a caseworkers
FALSE WITNESS stating that I have a history
of Sexual Abuse, when in fact, I do not.
The Juvenile Court, the caseworkers and the
Child Protection agency have all refused to
correct what they know for a fact is false
information in the records. The proof is
in paper form, from THEIR OWN agency, old
documents.

I would say that if your sect is going to
take a stand, this ACTUAL situation should
come before some lofty idealistic political
support.

Surely you do not believe that caseworkers
who bear such FALSE WITNESS should be given
the power of such sweeping and powerful laws
over something as sacred as family bonds.
Perhaps this will communicate to you the
evil done by the caseworkers already given
entirely too much power to "play God" themselves.

I ask you on humanitarian grounds, if you
would intercede on my behalf by making a
formal request to the governor for the
investigation and correction of this
FALSE WITNESS in the case records.

I would of course provide you with the proof.

Humanitarian in that it has harmed the child
and her family. FALSE WITNESS has been used
and defended as "In the best interest of the child".

Do you believe that such a LIE benefits the child?

Judge not lest ye be Judged yourself.

Thou shalt not bear FALSE WITNESS.

I honestly think that you do not understand
the 41 BILLION DOLLAR Child Protection Industry
in America, a cartel of many THOUSANDS of people
all deriving financial benefit from imagined
and NOT CRIMINALLY PROVEN child abuse.
Most are NOT criminal cases, but worse, end up
removing children from their parents forever.

Greg in Iowa, USA

Carlson LaVonne wrote in message ...
Greg Hanson wrote:

So Athens Christian Friends Meeting therefore
is willing to support a law against spanking
if it will help children be safe from abuse.


But what about the ABUSE CAUSED by such a law
in the hands of intrusive second guessing
socialist anti spank zealot bureaucrats?

Who are the "intrusive second guessing socialist anti spank zealot
bureaucrats? The people that removed your children for abuse?

Child REMOVAL is an abuse and the
inevitable result of any such law.
Is THAT what your ACFM supports?

Child removal is abuse? Tell it to the children I have worked with, and
my graduate students have worked with, Greg. Tell it to the little girl
who will never speak because her vocal cords are severely damaged by
being forced to drink tabasco sauce. Tell it to the little girl who is
now a teenager and can never have children because of the abuse she
suffered as a child. Tell it to the little boy who is permanently
disfigured because his mother threw hot water on his face to teach him
never to touch the stove.

Tell it to the hundreds of children who have died because of state
intervention. LaVonne you are certainly a state whore who revels in
stealing children in the name of Facism. What a state whore you are
LaVonne!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


For that matter, tell it to any child who is in a home where he/she is
being hurt. Tell the child no one cares.

Three smacks on the bottom would be ok?
Careful Padre, for the zealots would mark you
as a CHILD MOLESTOR for such things.

Three smack on the bottom should not result in removal. Three smacks on
the bottom should indicate that a parent is in desperate need of
information regarding alternative forms of parenting.

You are not for hitting, and you are legally protected. I am not for
hitting, and I am legally protected. It's now time for our children to
enjoy that protection.

LaVonne

I suggest you get out of your ivory tower and
find out more, much MORE, about a very complex
issue before giving simplistic answers.

Second Guessing Parents? You support that?

If you are located in Greece, perhaps you just
don't know what is going on in the USA or most
other countries in regard to FAMILY ABUSE in
the vain name of PROTECTING CHILDREN.

It is as ironic and bitter sweet as the
"Health through Labor" sign over the gates
of the camp at Dachau.

If your religion wishes to step into action
regarding the Child Protection INDUSTRY and
it's ABUSES OF FAMILIES, I would be very
willing to make a case for that.

I suspect you just don't KNOW about that.
Much like the citizens of Dachau.

I personally have been marked by a caseworkers
FALSE WITNESS stating that I have a history
of Sexual Abuse, when in fact, I do not.
The Juvenile Court, the caseworkers and the
Child Protection agency have all refused to
correct what they know for a fact is false
information in the records. The proof is
in paper form, from THEIR OWN agency, old
documents.

I would say that if your sect is going to
take a stand, this ACTUAL situation should
come before some lofty idealistic political
support.

Surely you do not believe that caseworkers
who bear such FALSE WITNESS should be given
the power of such sweeping and powerful laws
over something as sacred as family bonds.
Perhaps this will communicate to you the
evil done by the caseworkers already given
entirely too much power to "play God" themselves.

I ask you on humanitarian grounds, if you
would intercede on my behalf by making a
formal request to the governor for the
investigation and correction of this
FALSE WITNESS in the case records.

I would of course provide you with the proof.

Humanitarian in that it has harmed the child
and her family. FALSE WITNESS has been used
and defended as "In the best interest of the child".

Do you believe that such a LIE benefits the child?

Judge not lest ye be Judged yourself.

Thou shalt not bear FALSE WITNESS.

I honestly think that you do not understand
the 41 BILLION DOLLAR Child Protection Industry
in America, a cartel of many THOUSANDS of people
all deriving financial benefit from imagined
and NOT CRIMINALLY PROVEN child abuse.
Most are NOT criminal cases, but worse, end up
removing children from their parents forever.

Greg in Iowa, USA

Greg Hanson ) wrote:

[snip]

== It is as ironic and bitter sweet as the
== "Health through Labor" sign over the gates
== of the camp at Dachau.

Except that there IS no such sign over the gates
of Dachau.

The sign over the gates of Dachau said:
"Arbeit macht frei ('working makes one free')."

Wanna try some more citations from a history on which
you obviously have less than a complete grasp?



--

The virtue most often rewarded is patience.
-Ivan Gowch