Argument to the Black community on ...

**Doan** · September 12th 06, 03:41 AM posted to alt.parenting.spanking

More study on the benefit of spanking on Black community.
"Regression slops showed that the experience of physical discipline
at each time point was related to higher level of externalizing behaviors
for European American adlolescents but lower level of externalizing
behaviors for African American adolescents."

Sources:
Ethnic differences in the link between physical discipline and later
adolescent externalizing behaviors, Jennifer E. Lansford, Kirby
Deater-Deckard, Kenneth A. Dodge, John E. Bates, and Gregory S. Pettit
Journal of Child Psychology and Psychiatry (2004).

Doan

On Mon, 11 Sep 2006, Doan wrote:

Hahaha! Once again, Kane demonstrated his stupidity in public! He twisted
and he turned; anything he can to avoid the truth!

Doan

On Mon, 11 Sep 2006, 0:- wrote:

Doan wrote:
Hahaha! Kane is showing hist stupidity again. Any one who has read
the research on the effects of spanking on African American should know
that that, unlike white European American, spankings were associates with
lesser misbehavior and aggression. It is the lack of spanking that has
been shown, repeatedly, to be associates with higher misbehavior and
agression in the Black community.

Not so, monkeyboy. Prove your claim.

References:
Deater-Deckard, K., Bates, J.E., Dodge, K.A., Pettit, G.S. (1996).
Physical discipline among African American and European American mothers:
Links to children?s externalizing behaviors. Developmental Psychology,
32, 1065-1072.

R R R ....I notice you included NOTHING of their actual conclusions or
other significant portions of their research report...not even an
abstract. Tsk.

Let's see what it actually says, in the abstract, shall we eh?

Unlike you, who appear to be trying to conceal, as in LIE, I've even
provided the link:

http://www.indiana.edu/~batessdl/cdp_abstracts.html#961

"1996

* Deater-Deckard, K., Dodge, K.A., Bates, J.E., & Pettit, G.S.
(1996). Physical discipline among African-American and European-American
mothers: Links to children's externalizing behaviors. Developmental
Psychology, 32, 1065-1072.

The aim of this study was to test whether the relation between
physical discipline and child aggression was moderated by ethnic-group
status. A sample of 466 European American and 100 African American
children from a broad range of socioeconomic levels were followed from
kindergarten through 3rd grade. Mothers reported their use of physical
discipline in interviews and questionnaires, and mothers, teachers, and
peers rated children's externalizing problems annually. The interaction
between ethnic status and discipline was significant for teacher- and
peer-rated externalizing scores; physical discipline was associated with
higher externalizing scores, but only among European American children.
These findings provide evidence that the link between physical
punishment and child aggression may be culturally specific. "

Now, Doan, The Monkeyboy, if they were as sure of YOUR claim as you seem
to be, why did they use the term, "may be" as in culturally specific?

You will notice, chuckle this was NOT an observational longitudinal
study, but a series of INTERVIEWS. The answered were scored.

We can guess pretty well, given other studies of theirs, what that
socioeconomic levels were in the 100 AA families as compared to the Euro
Am families to the count of 466.

They didn't lie, but YOU most certainly did, or more likely are just
exhibiting your continuing stupidity and determined ignorance.

You draw conclusions that to not follow from the source provided.

Try again, stupid monkeyboy.

I provided a link. I expect you to meet the same level of response.

And you seem to be falling behind in your english comprehension classes
again.

The title of this article I provided isn't "research shows," it's, "Views"

Native English speakers usually recognize that quickly as "Opinion" and
it was not offered under any other claim than "Argument" from my title.

Neither of the words related to research.

As for the research you cite, but carefully don't link to, I'd like to
see the protocols for research, the methodology, if you will.

I'd like to see what YOU are calling "a lack of spanking." Lots of room
for abuse of the language and logic in that little phrase, monkeyboy.

I note this is from a 1996 study.

I quote an opinion from 2006.

He seems to disagree, as Black man, with the findings you have poorly
cited.

Many do, some very highly respected in the Black community and the
society at large, such as "Dr. Alvin Poussaint, a professor of
psychiatry at Harvard Medical School who has written extensively on
African-American issues, has long opposed the use of corporal punishment."

I presume he's tenured and a researcher.

Apparently he and these other leading Black community members don't
agree with the claim YOU are claiming the study YOU have poorly cited is
making:

http://www.stophitting.com/disatschool/aaLeadsBanCP.php

The signed this statement and it's publicly posted, so they are
obviously willing to stand up and be counted.

And you will see people from many professions and followings such as
Christian churches included.

Your cause is corrupt, Doan. Worn out old ignorant superstition, not
scientifically supported, nor is it morally supported, even by those YOU
and a few other sycophants would like to claim spanking is good.

There is no justifiable reason for using corporal punishment to teach or
control a child. None.

And these Black leaders know it too.

Mr. Muwakkil is expressing a new sentiment that is rapidly taking hold.

Read it an weep, little apologist for the compulsives.

0:-

"No one knew 30 years ago how traumatic spanking was to a child's
psyche. You should avoid using physical force on your child."
.. DR. ALVIN POUSSAINT

Doan

On Sat, 9 Sep 2006, 0:- wrote:

... spanking, of course.

http://www.inthesetimes.com/site/main/article/2812/

Views September 8, 2006 Web Only
Corporal Punishmentï¿½s Hidden Costs
By Salim Muwakkil

If the civil rights community began a movement to discourage
corporal punishment among African Americans, I believe it would do more
to stem the tide of interpersonal violence than any other strategy.

An errant bullet hit the eye of a 12-year-old Chicago girl on August 27
but she survived. Earlier this year, stray bullets killed two girls in
separate incidents in the cityï¿½s Englewood neighborhood and triggered a
flurry of activity designed to address the chronic violence hammering
Chicagoï¿½s inner-city neighborhoods.

In black communities across the United States, concerned people are
gathering with increasing urgency, seeking solutions to rising rates of
violence.

Let me add one suggestion that is not likely to be raised at any of
these gatherings: Stop spanking your children.

If the civil rights community began a movement to discourage corporal
punishment among African-Americans, I believe it would do more to stem
the tide of interpersonal violence than any other strategy.

Experts are increasingly fingering corporal punishmentï¿½the infliction of
physical pain on the body of a child for purposes of punishment or
controlling behaviorï¿½as the culprit in a wide variety of social
dysfunctions. A host of relevant professional organizations, including
the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Psychological
Association and the National Association of Social Workers have
published position papers opposing or strongly discouraging corporal
punishment of children.

International research on the deleterious effects of physical punishment
is so compelling that the United Nations has initiated a global program
to eliminate it. Not only is corporal punishment of children a violation
of human rights, the United Nations argued in a 2005 UNESCO publication,
that according to a preponderance of research, it is also
ï¿½counterproductive, relatively ineffective, dangerous and harmful.ï¿½

In 1979, Sweden became the first country in the world to ban all
corporal punishment of children. Twelve more European countries have
followed: Denmark, Norway, Finland, Austria, Cyprus, Italy, Croatia,
Latvia, Germany, Bulgaria, Ukraine and Iceland. Leaders in these
countries concluded that the costs of corporal punishment were too high
for a society that called itself civilized.

Despite this wide consensus on the ills of corporal punishment, there is
scant sentiment for an anti-spanking movement among African Americans.
But that may be changing. Growing numbers of experts who focus on the
black community, are also raising questions about the high costs of
using physical violence to punish children. Dr. Alvin Poussaint, a
professor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School who has written
extensively on African-American issues, has long opposed the use of
corporal punishment.

His major argument is simple: ï¿½the use of corporal punishment teaches
children that violence is the way to solve problems.ï¿½ Poussaint, who was
an adviser to the popular program ï¿½The Cosby Show,ï¿½ says corporal
punishment also has other harmful effects on the social life of the
black community.

At a recent forum on young black men, sponsored by the Washington Post
and the Kaiser Family Foundation, Poussaint fingered corporal punishment
as a factor in the disproportionate expulsions of black children from
pre-school programs, especially males. He said his research has found
that even preschool black males harbor a lot of anger.

ï¿½Thereï¿½s an overuse of beating kids,ï¿½ he said, breaking a major taboo
among black leadership by raising this issue. ï¿½So that you have 80
percent of black parents believing you should beat themï¿½beat the devil
out of them. And research shows the more you beat them, the angrier they
get.ï¿½

High levels of violent crime in black communities certainly reflect that
anger. According to figures from the Department of Justiceï¿½s Bureau of
Justice Statistics, African Americans were more likely than other
Americans to be both victims and perpetrators of violent crime.

In 2000, blacks were six times more likely than whites to be victims of
murder. They also were seven times more likely to be perpetrators. In
fact, for the last half-century blacks were homicide victims at least
five times more than whites were. Sometimes that rate reached more than
ten times the white rate.

Among the major reasons cited for this disparity are poverty,
segregation, media violence and the self-hatred inculcated by a white
supremacist culture. Some argue the problem is simply one of bad
behavior, abetted by black communities that deemphasize personal
responsibility and cultural standards.

There is a bit of truth in those explanations, but Poussaintï¿½s
anti-spanking reasoning also makes sense. What doesnï¿½t make sense is
that black leaders have yet to make the connection between high rates of
corporal punishment and high rates of interpersonal violence.

One reason for this reticence is the influence of the church. All
spanking advocates need to do is cite a biblical justification not to

--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)

**0:->** · September 12th 06, 03:52 AM posted to alt.parenting.spanking

Doan wrote:

.... another mindless spewing babble....

On Mon, 11 Sep 2006, 0:- wrote:

Doan wrote:
On Mon, 11 Sep 2006, 0:- wrote:

Doan wrote:
Hahaha! Once again, Kane demonstrated his stupidity in public! He twisted
and he turned; anything he can to avoid the truth!

Doan
Hey there, Monkeyboy. Fabulous debating skill. Your argument is so
unique to you.

Hihihi! And tore you apart every time!
You are delusional.

Nope! You are!
R R R R R

Apparently there is some disagreement what the "research" you claim
says, and what it really says. AND, apparently some disagreement in the
Black community with the results of a 1996 study.

http://nospank.net/poussaint-release.pdf

It didn't say anything about the particular research I cited, STUPID!
Why not, monkeyboy? Afraid to have it read in full?

Huh? I already have, STUPID. What does it say anything about the
research I cited, STUPID?

That's the truth, boy.

You can't handle the truth! ;-)
Just did, stupid.

NOpe, STUPID!

You can't even handle what you post, unless you butcher it by context
abortion.

Hahaha! Is that another "abreaction"?

AF
AF
0:-

0:-

On Mon, 11 Sep 2006, 0:- wrote:

Doan wrote:
Hahaha! Kane is showing hist stupidity again. Any one who has read
the research on the effects of spanking on African American should know
that that, unlike white European American, spankings were associates with
lesser misbehavior and aggression. It is the lack of spanking that has
been shown, repeatedly, to be associates with higher misbehavior and
agression in the Black community.
Not so, monkeyboy. Prove your claim.

References:
Deater-Deckard, K., Bates, J.E., Dodge, K.A., Pettit, G.S. (1996).
Physical discipline among African American and European American mothers:
Links to children?s externalizing behaviors. Developmental Psychology,
32, 1065-1072.
R R R ....I notice you included NOTHING of their actual conclusions or
other significant portions of their research report...not even an
abstract. Tsk.

Let's see what it actually says, in the abstract, shall we eh?

Unlike you, who appear to be trying to conceal, as in LIE, I've even
provided the link:

http://www.indiana.edu/~batessdl/cdp_abstracts.html#961

"1996

* Deater-Deckard, K., Dodge, K.A., Bates, J.E., & Pettit, G.S.
(1996). Physical discipline among African-American and European-American
mothers: Links to children's externalizing behaviors. Developmental
Psychology, 32, 1065-1072.

The aim of this study was to test whether the relation between
physical discipline and child aggression was moderated by ethnic-group
status. A sample of 466 European American and 100 African American
children from a broad range of socioeconomic levels were followed from
kindergarten through 3rd grade. Mothers reported their use of physical
discipline in interviews and questionnaires, and mothers, teachers, and
peers rated children's externalizing problems annually. The interaction
between ethnic status and discipline was significant for teacher- and
peer-rated externalizing scores; physical discipline was associated with
higher externalizing scores, but only among European American children.
These findings provide evidence that the link between physical
punishment and child aggression may be culturally specific. "

Now, Doan, The Monkeyboy, if they were as sure of YOUR claim as you seem
to be, why did they use the term, "may be" as in culturally specific?

You will notice, chuckle this was NOT an observational longitudinal
study, but a series of INTERVIEWS. The answered were scored.

We can guess pretty well, given other studies of theirs, what that
socioeconomic levels were in the 100 AA families as compared to the Euro
Am families to the count of 466.

They didn't lie, but YOU most certainly did, or more likely are just
exhibiting your continuing stupidity and determined ignorance.

You draw conclusions that to not follow from the source provided.

Try again, stupid monkeyboy.

I provided a link. I expect you to meet the same level of response.

And you seem to be falling behind in your english comprehension classes
again.

The title of this article I provided isn't "research shows," it's, "Views"

Native English speakers usually recognize that quickly as "Opinion" and
it was not offered under any other claim than "Argument" from my title.

Neither of the words related to research.

As for the research you cite, but carefully don't link to, I'd like to
see the protocols for research, the methodology, if you will.

I'd like to see what YOU are calling "a lack of spanking." Lots of room
for abuse of the language and logic in that little phrase, monkeyboy.

I note this is from a 1996 study.

I quote an opinion from 2006.

He seems to disagree, as Black man, with the findings you have poorly
cited.

Many do, some very highly respected in the Black community and the
society at large, such as "Dr. Alvin Poussaint, a professor of
psychiatry at Harvard Medical School who has written extensively on
African-American issues, has long opposed the use of corporal punishment."

I presume he's tenured and a researcher.

Apparently he and these other leading Black community members don't
agree with the claim YOU are claiming the study YOU have poorly cited is
making:

http://www.stophitting.com/disatschool/aaLeadsBanCP.php

The signed this statement and it's publicly posted, so they are
obviously willing to stand up and be counted.

And you will see people from many professions and followings such as
Christian churches included.

Your cause is corrupt, Doan. Worn out old ignorant superstition, not
scientifically supported, nor is it morally supported, even by those YOU
and a few other sycophants would like to claim spanking is good.

There is no justifiable reason for using corporal punishment to teach or
control a child. None.

And these Black leaders know it too.

Mr. Muwakkil is expressing a new sentiment that is rapidly taking hold.

Read it an weep, little apologist for the compulsives.

0:-

"No one knew 30 years ago how traumatic spanking was to a child's
psyche. You should avoid using physical force on your child."
.. DR. ALVIN POUSSAINT

Doan

On Sat, 9 Sep 2006, 0:- wrote:

... spanking, of course.

http://www.inthesetimes.com/site/main/article/2812/

Views September 8, 2006 Web Only
Corporal Punishmentï¿½s Hidden Costs
By Salim Muwakkil

If the civil rights community began a movement to discourage
corporal punishment among African Americans, I believe it would do more
to stem the tide of interpersonal violence than any other strategy.

An errant bullet hit the eye of a 12-year-old Chicago girl on August 27
but she survived. Earlier this year, stray bullets killed two girls in
separate incidents in the cityï¿½s Englewood neighborhood and triggered a
flurry of activity designed to address the chronic violence hammering
Chicagoï¿½s inner-city neighborhoods.

In black communities across the United States, concerned people are
gathering with increasing urgency, seeking solutions to rising rates of
violence.

Let me add one suggestion that is not likely to be raised at any of
these gatherings: Stop spanking your children.

If the civil rights community began a movement to discourage corporal
punishment among African-Americans, I believe it would do more to stem
the tide of interpersonal violence than any other strategy.

Experts are increasingly fingering corporal punishmentï¿½the infliction of
physical pain on the body of a child for purposes of punishment or
controlling behaviorï¿½as the culprit in a wide variety of social
dysfunctions. A host of relevant professional organizations, including
the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Psychological
Association and the National Association of Social Workers have
published position papers opposing or strongly discouraging corporal
punishment of children.

International research on the deleterious effects of physical punishment
is so compelling that the United Nations has initiated a global program
to eliminate it. Not only is corporal punishment of children a violation
of human rights, the United Nations argued in a 2005 UNESCO publication,
that according to a preponderance of research, it is also
ï¿½counterproductive, relatively ineffective, dangerous and harmful.ï¿½

In 1979, Sweden became the first country in the world to ban all
corporal punishment of children. Twelve more European countries have
followed: Denmark, Norway, Finland, Austria, Cyprus, Italy, Croatia,
Latvia, Germany, Bulgaria, Ukraine and Iceland. Leaders in these
countries concluded that the costs of corporal punishment were too high
for a society that called itself civilized.

Despite this wide consensus on the ills of corporal punishment, there is
scant sentiment for an anti-spanking movement among African Americans.
But that may be changing. Growing numbers of experts who focus on the
black community, are also raising questions about the high costs of
using physical violence to punish children. Dr. Alvin Poussaint, a
professor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School who has written
extensively on African-American issues, has long opposed the use of
corporal punishment.

His major argument is simple: ï¿½the use of corporal punishment teaches
children that violence is the way to solve problems.ï¿½ Poussaint, who was
an adviser to the popular program ï¿½The Cosby Show,ï¿½ says corporal
punishment also has other harmful effects on the social life of the
black community.

At a recent forum on young black men, sponsored by the Washington Post
and the Kaiser Family Foundation, Poussaint fingered corporal punishment
as a factor in the disproportionate expulsions of black children from
pre-school programs, especially males. He said his research has found
that even preschool black males harbor a lot of anger.

ï¿½Thereï¿½s an overuse of beating kids,ï¿½ he said, breaking a major taboo
among black leadership by raising this issue. ï¿½So that you have 80
percent of black parents believing you should beat themï¿½beat the devil
out of them. And research shows the more you beat them, the angrier they
get.ï¿½

High levels of violent crime in black communities certainly reflect that
anger. According to figures from the Department of Justiceï¿½s Bureau of
Justice Statistics, African Americans were more likely than other
Americans to be both victims and perpetrators of violent crime.

In 2000, blacks were six times more likely than whites to be victims of
murder. They also were seven times more likely to be perpetrators. In
fact, for the last half-century blacks were homicide victims at least
five times more than whites were. Sometimes that rate reached more than
ten times the white rate.

Among the major reasons cited for this disparity are poverty,
segregation, media violence and the self-hatred inculcated by a white
supremacist culture. Some argue the problem is simply one of bad
behavior, abetted by black communities that deemphasize personal
responsibility and cultural standards.

There is a bit of truth in those explanations, but Poussaintï¿½s
anti-spanking reasoning also makes sense. What doesnï¿½t make sense is
that black leaders have yet to make the connection between high rates of
corporal punishment and high rates of interpersonal violence.

One reason for this reticence is the influence of the church. All
spanking advocates need to do is cite a biblical justification not to
--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)

--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)

--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)

--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)

**0:->** · September 12th 06, 03:54 AM posted to alt.parenting.spanking

Doan wrote:

....yet more incoherent babbling spew from the Ranting, Screeching,
Hysterical, Dancing, Monkeyboy. ....

On Mon, 11 Sep 2006, 0:- wrote:

Doan wrote:
Hahaha! Once again, Kane demonstrated his stupidity in public! He twisted
and he turned; anything he can to avoid the truth!
Let's see now. It was YOU, stupid monkeyboy that did not provide a link,
while it was I that did, to the material you claimed supported your
stupid "It is the lack of spanking that has been shown, repeatedly, to
be associates with higher misbehavior and agression in the Black
community." [sic] It showed nothing of the sort.

Hahaha! Showing your STUPIDITY, again. Can even understand what the
research say. YOU ARE STUPID!

Try again, liar. 0:-

The only liar here is you! ;-)

AF

Doan

On Mon, 11 Sep 2006, 0:- wrote:

Doan wrote:
Hahaha! Kane is showing hist stupidity again. Any one who has read
the research on the effects of spanking on African American should know
that that, unlike white European American, spankings were associates with
lesser misbehavior and aggression. It is the lack of spanking that has
been shown, repeatedly, to be associates with higher misbehavior and
agression in the Black community.
Not so, monkeyboy. Prove your claim.

References:
Deater-Deckard, K., Bates, J.E., Dodge, K.A., Pettit, G.S. (1996).
Physical discipline among African American and European American mothers:
Links to children?s externalizing behaviors. Developmental Psychology,
32, 1065-1072.
R R R ....I notice you included NOTHING of their actual conclusions or
other significant portions of their research report...not even an
abstract. Tsk.

Let's see what it actually says, in the abstract, shall we eh?

Unlike you, who appear to be trying to conceal, as in LIE, I've even
provided the link:

http://www.indiana.edu/~batessdl/cdp_abstracts.html#961

"1996

* Deater-Deckard, K., Dodge, K.A., Bates, J.E., & Pettit, G.S.
(1996). Physical discipline among African-American and European-American
mothers: Links to children's externalizing behaviors. Developmental
Psychology, 32, 1065-1072.

The aim of this study was to test whether the relation between
physical discipline and child aggression was moderated by ethnic-group
status. A sample of 466 European American and 100 African American
children from a broad range of socioeconomic levels were followed from
kindergarten through 3rd grade. Mothers reported their use of physical
discipline in interviews and questionnaires, and mothers, teachers, and
peers rated children's externalizing problems annually. The interaction
between ethnic status and discipline was significant for teacher- and
peer-rated externalizing scores; physical discipline was associated with
higher externalizing scores, but only among European American children.
These findings provide evidence that the link between physical
punishment and child aggression may be culturally specific. "

Now, Doan, The Monkeyboy, if they were as sure of YOUR claim as you seem
to be, why did they use the term, "may be" as in culturally specific?

You will notice, chuckle this was NOT an observational longitudinal
study, but a series of INTERVIEWS. The answered were scored.

We can guess pretty well, given other studies of theirs, what that
socioeconomic levels were in the 100 AA families as compared to the Euro
Am families to the count of 466.

They didn't lie, but YOU most certainly did, or more likely are just
exhibiting your continuing stupidity and determined ignorance.

You draw conclusions that to not follow from the source provided.

Try again, stupid monkeyboy.

I provided a link. I expect you to meet the same level of response.

And you seem to be falling behind in your english comprehension classes
again.

The title of this article I provided isn't "research shows," it's, "Views"

Native English speakers usually recognize that quickly as "Opinion" and
it was not offered under any other claim than "Argument" from my title.

Neither of the words related to research.

As for the research you cite, but carefully don't link to, I'd like to
see the protocols for research, the methodology, if you will.

I'd like to see what YOU are calling "a lack of spanking." Lots of room
for abuse of the language and logic in that little phrase, monkeyboy.

I note this is from a 1996 study.

I quote an opinion from 2006.

He seems to disagree, as Black man, with the findings you have poorly
cited.

Many do, some very highly respected in the Black community and the
society at large, such as "Dr. Alvin Poussaint, a professor of
psychiatry at Harvard Medical School who has written extensively on
African-American issues, has long opposed the use of corporal punishment."

I presume he's tenured and a researcher.

Apparently he and these other leading Black community members don't
agree with the claim YOU are claiming the study YOU have poorly cited is
making:

http://www.stophitting.com/disatschool/aaLeadsBanCP.php

The signed this statement and it's publicly posted, so they are
obviously willing to stand up and be counted.

And you will see people from many professions and followings such as
Christian churches included.

Your cause is corrupt, Doan. Worn out old ignorant superstition, not
scientifically supported, nor is it morally supported, even by those YOU
and a few other sycophants would like to claim spanking is good.

There is no justifiable reason for using corporal punishment to teach or
control a child. None.

And these Black leaders know it too.

Mr. Muwakkil is expressing a new sentiment that is rapidly taking hold.

Read it an weep, little apologist for the compulsives.

0:-

"No one knew 30 years ago how traumatic spanking was to a child's
psyche. You should avoid using physical force on your child."
.. DR. ALVIN POUSSAINT

Doan

On Sat, 9 Sep 2006, 0:- wrote:

... spanking, of course.

http://www.inthesetimes.com/site/main/article/2812/

Views September 8, 2006 Web Only
Corporal Punishmentï¿½s Hidden Costs
By Salim Muwakkil

If the civil rights community began a movement to discourage
corporal punishment among African Americans, I believe it would do more
to stem the tide of interpersonal violence than any other strategy.

An errant bullet hit the eye of a 12-year-old Chicago girl on August 27
but she survived. Earlier this year, stray bullets killed two girls in
separate incidents in the cityï¿½s Englewood neighborhood and triggered a
flurry of activity designed to address the chronic violence hammering
Chicagoï¿½s inner-city neighborhoods.

In black communities across the United States, concerned people are
gathering with increasing urgency, seeking solutions to rising rates of
violence.

Let me add one suggestion that is not likely to be raised at any of
these gatherings: Stop spanking your children.

If the civil rights community began a movement to discourage corporal
punishment among African-Americans, I believe it would do more to stem
the tide of interpersonal violence than any other strategy.

Experts are increasingly fingering corporal punishmentï¿½the infliction of
physical pain on the body of a child for purposes of punishment or
controlling behaviorï¿½as the culprit in a wide variety of social
dysfunctions. A host of relevant professional organizations, including
the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Psychological
Association and the National Association of Social Workers have
published position papers opposing or strongly discouraging corporal
punishment of children.

International research on the deleterious effects of physical punishment
is so compelling that the United Nations has initiated a global program
to eliminate it. Not only is corporal punishment of children a violation
of human rights, the United Nations argued in a 2005 UNESCO publication,
that according to a preponderance of research, it is also
ï¿½counterproductive, relatively ineffective, dangerous and harmful.ï¿½

In 1979, Sweden became the first country in the world to ban all
corporal punishment of children. Twelve more European countries have
followed: Denmark, Norway, Finland, Austria, Cyprus, Italy, Croatia,
Latvia, Germany, Bulgaria, Ukraine and Iceland. Leaders in these
countries concluded that the costs of corporal punishment were too high
for a society that called itself civilized.

Despite this wide consensus on the ills of corporal punishment, there is
scant sentiment for an anti-spanking movement among African Americans.
But that may be changing. Growing numbers of experts who focus on the
black community, are also raising questions about the high costs of
using physical violence to punish children. Dr. Alvin Poussaint, a
professor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School who has written
extensively on African-American issues, has long opposed the use of
corporal punishment.

His major argument is simple: ï¿½the use of corporal punishment teaches
children that violence is the way to solve problems.ï¿½ Poussaint, who was
an adviser to the popular program ï¿½The Cosby Show,ï¿½ says corporal
punishment also has other harmful effects on the social life of the
black community.

At a recent forum on young black men, sponsored by the Washington Post
and the Kaiser Family Foundation, Poussaint fingered corporal punishment
as a factor in the disproportionate expulsions of black children from
pre-school programs, especially males. He said his research has found
that even preschool black males harbor a lot of anger.

ï¿½Thereï¿½s an overuse of beating kids,ï¿½ he said, breaking a major taboo
among black leadership by raising this issue. ï¿½So that you have 80
percent of black parents believing you should beat themï¿½beat the devil
out of them. And research shows the more you beat them, the angrier they
get.ï¿½

High levels of violent crime in black communities certainly reflect that
anger. According to figures from the Department of Justiceï¿½s Bureau of
Justice Statistics, African Americans were more likely than other
Americans to be both victims and perpetrators of violent crime.

In 2000, blacks were six times more likely than whites to be victims of
murder. They also were seven times more likely to be perpetrators. In
fact, for the last half-century blacks were homicide victims at least
five times more than whites were. Sometimes that rate reached more than
ten times the white rate.

Among the major reasons cited for this disparity are poverty,
segregation, media violence and the self-hatred inculcated by a white
supremacist culture. Some argue the problem is simply one of bad
behavior, abetted by black communities that deemphasize personal
responsibility and cultural standards.

There is a bit of truth in those explanations, but Poussaintï¿½s
anti-spanking reasoning also makes sense. What doesnï¿½t make sense is
that black leaders have yet to make the connection between high rates of
corporal punishment and high rates of interpersonal violence.

One reason for this reticence is the influence of the church. All
spanking advocates need to do is cite a biblical justification not to
--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)

--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)

--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)

**0:->** · September 12th 06, 03:58 AM posted to alt.parenting.spanking

Doan wrote:
More study on the benefit of spanking on Black community.
"Regression slops showed that the experience of physical discipline
at each time point was related to higher level of externalizing behaviors
for European American adlolescents but lower level of externalizing
behaviors for African American adolescents."

Doesn't support your claim of "It is the lack of spanking that has
been shown, repeatedly, to be associates with higher misbehavior and
agression in the Black community,"[sic] now does it, dummy?

Buy the way, what is a "regression slops?"

Sources:
Ethnic differences in the link between physical discipline and later
adolescent externalizing behaviors, Jennifer E. Lansford, Kirby
Deater-Deckard, Kenneth A. Dodge, John E. Bates, and Gregory S. Pettit
Journal of Child Psychology and Psychiatry (2004).

We weren't arguing ethnic differences. The article I posted did not
mention Caucasians, and neither did I.

The question is, and still unproven by you, "It is the lack of spanking
that has been shown, repeatedly, to be associates with higher
misbehavior and agression in the Black community."

Try again, stupid little monkeyboy.

0:-

Doan

On Mon, 11 Sep 2006, Doan wrote:

Hahaha! Once again, Kane demonstrated his stupidity in public! He twisted
and he turned; anything he can to avoid the truth!

Doan

On Mon, 11 Sep 2006, 0:- wrote:

Doan wrote:
Hahaha! Kane is showing hist stupidity again. Any one who has read
the research on the effects of spanking on African American should know
that that, unlike white European American, spankings were associates with
lesser misbehavior and aggression. It is the lack of spanking that has
been shown, repeatedly, to be associates with higher misbehavior and
agression in the Black community.
Not so, monkeyboy. Prove your claim.

References:
Deater-Deckard, K., Bates, J.E., Dodge, K.A., Pettit, G.S. (1996).
Physical discipline among African American and European American mothers:
Links to children?s externalizing behaviors. Developmental Psychology,
32, 1065-1072.
R R R ....I notice you included NOTHING of their actual conclusions or
other significant portions of their research report...not even an
abstract. Tsk.

Let's see what it actually says, in the abstract, shall we eh?

Unlike you, who appear to be trying to conceal, as in LIE, I've even
provided the link:

http://www.indiana.edu/~batessdl/cdp_abstracts.html#961

"1996

* Deater-Deckard, K., Dodge, K.A., Bates, J.E., & Pettit, G.S.
(1996). Physical discipline among African-American and European-American
mothers: Links to children's externalizing behaviors. Developmental
Psychology, 32, 1065-1072.

The aim of this study was to test whether the relation between
physical discipline and child aggression was moderated by ethnic-group
status. A sample of 466 European American and 100 African American
children from a broad range of socioeconomic levels were followed from
kindergarten through 3rd grade. Mothers reported their use of physical
discipline in interviews and questionnaires, and mothers, teachers, and
peers rated children's externalizing problems annually. The interaction
between ethnic status and discipline was significant for teacher- and
peer-rated externalizing scores; physical discipline was associated with
higher externalizing scores, but only among European American children.
These findings provide evidence that the link between physical
punishment and child aggression may be culturally specific. "

Now, Doan, The Monkeyboy, if they were as sure of YOUR claim as you seem
to be, why did they use the term, "may be" as in culturally specific?

You will notice, chuckle this was NOT an observational longitudinal
study, but a series of INTERVIEWS. The answered were scored.

We can guess pretty well, given other studies of theirs, what that
socioeconomic levels were in the 100 AA families as compared to the Euro
Am families to the count of 466.

They didn't lie, but YOU most certainly did, or more likely are just
exhibiting your continuing stupidity and determined ignorance.

You draw conclusions that to not follow from the source provided.

Try again, stupid monkeyboy.

I provided a link. I expect you to meet the same level of response.

And you seem to be falling behind in your english comprehension classes
again.

The title of this article I provided isn't "research shows," it's, "Views"

Native English speakers usually recognize that quickly as "Opinion" and
it was not offered under any other claim than "Argument" from my title.

Neither of the words related to research.

As for the research you cite, but carefully don't link to, I'd like to
see the protocols for research, the methodology, if you will.

I'd like to see what YOU are calling "a lack of spanking." Lots of room
for abuse of the language and logic in that little phrase, monkeyboy.

I note this is from a 1996 study.

I quote an opinion from 2006.

He seems to disagree, as Black man, with the findings you have poorly
cited.

Many do, some very highly respected in the Black community and the
society at large, such as "Dr. Alvin Poussaint, a professor of
psychiatry at Harvard Medical School who has written extensively on
African-American issues, has long opposed the use of corporal punishment."

I presume he's tenured and a researcher.

Apparently he and these other leading Black community members don't
agree with the claim YOU are claiming the study YOU have poorly cited is
making:

http://www.stophitting.com/disatschool/aaLeadsBanCP.php

The signed this statement and it's publicly posted, so they are
obviously willing to stand up and be counted.

And you will see people from many professions and followings such as
Christian churches included.

Your cause is corrupt, Doan. Worn out old ignorant superstition, not
scientifically supported, nor is it morally supported, even by those YOU
and a few other sycophants would like to claim spanking is good.

There is no justifiable reason for using corporal punishment to teach or
control a child. None.

And these Black leaders know it too.

Mr. Muwakkil is expressing a new sentiment that is rapidly taking hold.

Read it an weep, little apologist for the compulsives.

0:-

"No one knew 30 years ago how traumatic spanking was to a child's
psyche. You should avoid using physical force on your child."
.. DR. ALVIN POUSSAINT

Doan

On Sat, 9 Sep 2006, 0:- wrote:

... spanking, of course.

http://www.inthesetimes.com/site/main/article/2812/

Views September 8, 2006 Web Only
Corporal Punishmentï¿½s Hidden Costs
By Salim Muwakkil

If the civil rights community began a movement to discourage
corporal punishment among African Americans, I believe it would do more
to stem the tide of interpersonal violence than any other strategy.

An errant bullet hit the eye of a 12-year-old Chicago girl on August 27
but she survived. Earlier this year, stray bullets killed two girls in
separate incidents in the cityï¿½s Englewood neighborhood and triggered a
flurry of activity designed to address the chronic violence hammering
Chicagoï¿½s inner-city neighborhoods.

In black communities across the United States, concerned people are
gathering with increasing urgency, seeking solutions to rising rates of
violence.

Let me add one suggestion that is not likely to be raised at any of
these gatherings: Stop spanking your children.

If the civil rights community began a movement to discourage corporal
punishment among African-Americans, I believe it would do more to stem
the tide of interpersonal violence than any other strategy.

Experts are increasingly fingering corporal punishmentï¿½the infliction of
physical pain on the body of a child for purposes of punishment or
controlling behaviorï¿½as the culprit in a wide variety of social
dysfunctions. A host of relevant professional organizations, including
the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Psychological
Association and the National Association of Social Workers have
published position papers opposing or strongly discouraging corporal
punishment of children.

International research on the deleterious effects of physical punishment
is so compelling that the United Nations has initiated a global program
to eliminate it. Not only is corporal punishment of children a violation
of human rights, the United Nations argued in a 2005 UNESCO publication,
that according to a preponderance of research, it is also
ï¿½counterproductive, relatively ineffective, dangerous and harmful.ï¿½

In 1979, Sweden became the first country in the world to ban all
corporal punishment of children. Twelve more European countries have
followed: Denmark, Norway, Finland, Austria, Cyprus, Italy, Croatia,
Latvia, Germany, Bulgaria, Ukraine and Iceland. Leaders in these
countries concluded that the costs of corporal punishment were too high
for a society that called itself civilized.

Despite this wide consensus on the ills of corporal punishment, there is
scant sentiment for an anti-spanking movement among African Americans.
But that may be changing. Growing numbers of experts who focus on the
black community, are also raising questions about the high costs of
using physical violence to punish children. Dr. Alvin Poussaint, a
professor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School who has written
extensively on African-American issues, has long opposed the use of
corporal punishment.

His major argument is simple: ï¿½the use of corporal punishment teaches
children that violence is the way to solve problems.ï¿½ Poussaint, who was
an adviser to the popular program ï¿½The Cosby Show,ï¿½ says corporal
punishment also has other harmful effects on the social life of the
black community.

At a recent forum on young black men, sponsored by the Washington Post
and the Kaiser Family Foundation, Poussaint fingered corporal punishment
as a factor in the disproportionate expulsions of black children from
pre-school programs, especially males. He said his research has found
that even preschool black males harbor a lot of anger.

ï¿½Thereï¿½s an overuse of beating kids,ï¿½ he said, breaking a major taboo
among black leadership by raising this issue. ï¿½So that you have 80
percent of black parents believing you should beat themï¿½beat the devil
out of them. And research shows the more you beat them, the angrier they
get.ï¿½

High levels of violent crime in black communities certainly reflect that
anger. According to figures from the Department of Justiceï¿½s Bureau of
Justice Statistics, African Americans were more likely than other
Americans to be both victims and perpetrators of violent crime.

In 2000, blacks were six times more likely than whites to be victims of
murder. They also were seven times more likely to be perpetrators. In
fact, for the last half-century blacks were homicide victims at least
five times more than whites were. Sometimes that rate reached more than
ten times the white rate.

Among the major reasons cited for this disparity are poverty,
segregation, media violence and the self-hatred inculcated by a white
supremacist culture. Some argue the problem is simply one of bad
behavior, abetted by black communities that deemphasize personal
responsibility and cultural standards.

There is a bit of truth in those explanations, but Poussaintï¿½s
anti-spanking reasoning also makes sense. What doesnï¿½t make sense is
that black leaders have yet to make the connection between high rates of
corporal punishment and high rates of interpersonal violence.

One reason for this reticence is the influence of the church. All
spanking advocates need to do is cite a biblical justification not to

--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)

--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)

**Doan** · September 12th 06, 05:08 AM posted to alt.parenting.spanking

A another stupid post from a STUPID person known as Kane0. That's nine
less than a Kane9. ;-)

Doan

On Mon, 11 Sep 2006, 0:- wrote:

Doan wrote:

... another mindless spewing babble....

On Mon, 11 Sep 2006, 0:- wrote:

Doan wrote:
On Mon, 11 Sep 2006, 0:- wrote:

Doan wrote:
Hahaha! Once again, Kane demonstrated his stupidity in public! He twisted
and he turned; anything he can to avoid the truth!

Doan
Hey there, Monkeyboy. Fabulous debating skill. Your argument is so
unique to you.

Hihihi! And tore you apart every time!
You are delusional.

Nope! You are!
R R R R R

Apparently there is some disagreement what the "research" you claim
says, and what it really says. AND, apparently some disagreement in the
Black community with the results of a 1996 study.

http://nospank.net/poussaint-release.pdf

It didn't say anything about the particular research I cited, STUPID!
Why not, monkeyboy? Afraid to have it read in full?

Huh? I already have, STUPID. What does it say anything about the
research I cited, STUPID?

That's the truth, boy.

You can't handle the truth! ;-)
Just did, stupid.

NOpe, STUPID!

You can't even handle what you post, unless you butcher it by context
abortion.

Hahaha! Is that another "abreaction"?

AF
AF
0:-

0:-

On Mon, 11 Sep 2006, 0:- wrote:

Doan wrote:
Hahaha! Kane is showing hist stupidity again. Any one who has read
the research on the effects of spanking on African American should know
that that, unlike white European American, spankings were associates with
lesser misbehavior and aggression. It is the lack of spanking that has
been shown, repeatedly, to be associates with higher misbehavior and
agression in the Black community.
Not so, monkeyboy. Prove your claim.

References:
Deater-Deckard, K., Bates, J.E., Dodge, K.A., Pettit, G.S. (1996).
Physical discipline among African American and European American mothers:
Links to children?s externalizing behaviors. Developmental Psychology,
32, 1065-1072.
R R R ....I notice you included NOTHING of their actual conclusions or
other significant portions of their research report...not even an
abstract. Tsk.

Let's see what it actually says, in the abstract, shall we eh?

Unlike you, who appear to be trying to conceal, as in LIE, I've even
provided the link:

http://www.indiana.edu/~batessdl/cdp_abstracts.html#961

"1996

* Deater-Deckard, K., Dodge, K.A., Bates, J.E., & Pettit, G.S.
(1996). Physical discipline among African-American and European-American
mothers: Links to children's externalizing behaviors. Developmental
Psychology, 32, 1065-1072.

The aim of this study was to test whether the relation between
physical discipline and child aggression was moderated by ethnic-group
status. A sample of 466 European American and 100 African American
children from a broad range of socioeconomic levels were followed from
kindergarten through 3rd grade. Mothers reported their use of physical
discipline in interviews and questionnaires, and mothers, teachers, and
peers rated children's externalizing problems annually. The interaction
between ethnic status and discipline was significant for teacher- and
peer-rated externalizing scores; physical discipline was associated with
higher externalizing scores, but only among European American children.
These findings provide evidence that the link between physical
punishment and child aggression may be culturally specific. "

Now, Doan, The Monkeyboy, if they were as sure of YOUR claim as you seem
to be, why did they use the term, "may be" as in culturally specific?

You will notice, chuckle this was NOT an observational longitudinal
study, but a series of INTERVIEWS. The answered were scored.

We can guess pretty well, given other studies of theirs, what that
socioeconomic levels were in the 100 AA families as compared to the Euro
Am families to the count of 466.

They didn't lie, but YOU most certainly did, or more likely are just
exhibiting your continuing stupidity and determined ignorance.

You draw conclusions that to not follow from the source provided.

Try again, stupid monkeyboy.

I provided a link. I expect you to meet the same level of response.

And you seem to be falling behind in your english comprehension classes
again.

The title of this article I provided isn't "research shows," it's, "Views"

Native English speakers usually recognize that quickly as "Opinion" and
it was not offered under any other claim than "Argument" from my title.

Neither of the words related to research.

As for the research you cite, but carefully don't link to, I'd like to
see the protocols for research, the methodology, if you will.

I'd like to see what YOU are calling "a lack of spanking." Lots of room
for abuse of the language and logic in that little phrase, monkeyboy.

I note this is from a 1996 study.

I quote an opinion from 2006.

He seems to disagree, as Black man, with the findings you have poorly
cited.

Many do, some very highly respected in the Black community and the
society at large, such as "Dr. Alvin Poussaint, a professor of
psychiatry at Harvard Medical School who has written extensively on
African-American issues, has long opposed the use of corporal punishment."

I presume he's tenured and a researcher.

Apparently he and these other leading Black community members don't
agree with the claim YOU are claiming the study YOU have poorly cited is
making:

http://www.stophitting.com/disatschool/aaLeadsBanCP.php

The signed this statement and it's publicly posted, so they are
obviously willing to stand up and be counted.

And you will see people from many professions and followings such as
Christian churches included.

Your cause is corrupt, Doan. Worn out old ignorant superstition, not
scientifically supported, nor is it morally supported, even by those YOU
and a few other sycophants would like to claim spanking is good.

There is no justifiable reason for using corporal punishment to teach or
control a child. None.

And these Black leaders know it too.

Mr. Muwakkil is expressing a new sentiment that is rapidly taking hold.

Read it an weep, little apologist for the compulsives.

0:-

"No one knew 30 years ago how traumatic spanking was to a child's
psyche. You should avoid using physical force on your child."
.. DR. ALVIN POUSSAINT

Doan

On Sat, 9 Sep 2006, 0:- wrote:

... spanking, of course.

http://www.inthesetimes.com/site/main/article/2812/

Views September 8, 2006 Web Only
Corporal Punishmentï¿½s Hidden Costs
By Salim Muwakkil

If the civil rights community began a movement to discourage
corporal punishment among African Americans, I believe it would do more
to stem the tide of interpersonal violence than any other strategy.

An errant bullet hit the eye of a 12-year-old Chicago girl on August 27
but she survived. Earlier this year, stray bullets killed two girls in
separate incidents in the cityï¿½s Englewood neighborhood and triggered a
flurry of activity designed to address the chronic violence hammering
Chicagoï¿½s inner-city neighborhoods.

In black communities across the United States, concerned people are
gathering with increasing urgency, seeking solutions to rising rates of
violence.

Let me add one suggestion that is not likely to be raised at any of
these gatherings: Stop spanking your children.

If the civil rights community began a movement to discourage corporal
punishment among African-Americans, I believe it would do more to stem
the tide of interpersonal violence than any other strategy.

Experts are increasingly fingering corporal punishmentï¿½the infliction of
physical pain on the body of a child for purposes of punishment or
controlling behaviorï¿½as the culprit in a wide variety of social
dysfunctions. A host of relevant professional organizations, including
the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Psychological
Association and the National Association of Social Workers have
published position papers opposing or strongly discouraging corporal
punishment of children.

International research on the deleterious effects of physical punishment
is so compelling that the United Nations has initiated a global program
to eliminate it. Not only is corporal punishment of children a violation
of human rights, the United Nations argued in a 2005 UNESCO publication,
that according to a preponderance of research, it is also
ï¿½counterproductive, relatively ineffective, dangerous and harmful.ï¿½

In 1979, Sweden became the first country in the world to ban all
corporal punishment of children. Twelve more European countries have
followed: Denmark, Norway, Finland, Austria, Cyprus, Italy, Croatia,
Latvia, Germany, Bulgaria, Ukraine and Iceland. Leaders in these
countries concluded that the costs of corporal punishment were too high
for a society that called itself civilized.

Despite this wide consensus on the ills of corporal punishment, there is
scant sentiment for an anti-spanking movement among African Americans.
But that may be changing. Growing numbers of experts who focus on the
black community, are also raising questions about the high costs of
using physical violence to punish children. Dr. Alvin Poussaint, a
professor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School who has written
extensively on African-American issues, has long opposed the use of
corporal punishment.

His major argument is simple: ï¿½the use of corporal punishment teaches
children that violence is the way to solve problems.ï¿½ Poussaint, who was
an adviser to the popular program ï¿½The Cosby Show,ï¿½ says corporal
punishment also has other harmful effects on the social life of the
black community.

At a recent forum on young black men, sponsored by the Washington Post
and the Kaiser Family Foundation, Poussaint fingered corporal punishment
as a factor in the disproportionate expulsions of black children from
pre-school programs, especially males. He said his research has found
that even preschool black males harbor a lot of anger.

ï¿½Thereï¿½s an overuse of beating kids,ï¿½ he said, breaking a major taboo
among black leadership by raising this issue. ï¿½So that you have 80
percent of black parents believing you should beat themï¿½beat the devil
out of them. And research shows the more you beat them, the angrier they
get.ï¿½

High levels of violent crime in black communities certainly reflect that
anger. According to figures from the Department of Justiceï¿½s Bureau of
Justice Statistics, African Americans were more likely than other
Americans to be both victims and perpetrators of violent crime.

In 2000, blacks were six times more likely than whites to be victims of
murder. They also were seven times more likely to be perpetrators. In
fact, for the last half-century blacks were homicide victims at least
five times more than whites were. Sometimes that rate reached more than
ten times the white rate.

Among the major reasons cited for this disparity are poverty,
segregation, media violence and the self-hatred inculcated by a white
supremacist culture. Some argue the problem is simply one of bad
behavior, abetted by black communities that deemphasize personal
responsibility and cultural standards.

There is a bit of truth in those explanations, but Poussaintï¿½s
anti-spanking reasoning also makes sense. What doesnï¿½t make sense is
that black leaders have yet to make the connection between high rates of
corporal punishment and high rates of interpersonal violence.

One reason for this reticence is the influence of the church. All
spanking advocates need to do is cite a biblical justification not to
--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)

--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)

--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)

--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)

**Doan** · September 12th 06, 05:09 AM posted to alt.parenting.spanking

Yet more STUPIDITY from anti-spanking zealotS, whose mother taught that it
is ok to call other women a "smelly-****"! What a testament to the
anti-spanking agenda! ;-)

Doan

On Mon, 11 Sep 2006, 0:- wrote:

Doan wrote:

...yet more incoherent babbling spew from the Ranting, Screeching,
Hysterical, Dancing, Monkeyboy. ....

On Mon, 11 Sep 2006, 0:- wrote:

Doan wrote:
Hahaha! Once again, Kane demonstrated his stupidity in public! He twisted
and he turned; anything he can to avoid the truth!
Let's see now. It was YOU, stupid monkeyboy that did not provide a link,
while it was I that did, to the material you claimed supported your
stupid "It is the lack of spanking that has been shown, repeatedly, to
be associates with higher misbehavior and agression in the Black
community." [sic] It showed nothing of the sort.

Hahaha! Showing your STUPIDITY, again. Can even understand what the
research say. YOU ARE STUPID!

Try again, liar. 0:-

The only liar here is you! ;-)

AF

Doan

On Mon, 11 Sep 2006, 0:- wrote:

Doan wrote:
Hahaha! Kane is showing hist stupidity again. Any one who has read
the research on the effects of spanking on African American should know
that that, unlike white European American, spankings were associates with
lesser misbehavior and aggression. It is the lack of spanking that has
been shown, repeatedly, to be associates with higher misbehavior and
agression in the Black community.
Not so, monkeyboy. Prove your claim.

References:
Deater-Deckard, K., Bates, J.E., Dodge, K.A., Pettit, G.S. (1996).
Physical discipline among African American and European American mothers:
Links to children?s externalizing behaviors. Developmental Psychology,
32, 1065-1072.
R R R ....I notice you included NOTHING of their actual conclusions or
other significant portions of their research report...not even an
abstract. Tsk.

Let's see what it actually says, in the abstract, shall we eh?

Unlike you, who appear to be trying to conceal, as in LIE, I've even
provided the link:

http://www.indiana.edu/~batessdl/cdp_abstracts.html#961

"1996

* Deater-Deckard, K., Dodge, K.A., Bates, J.E., & Pettit, G.S.
(1996). Physical discipline among African-American and European-American
mothers: Links to children's externalizing behaviors. Developmental
Psychology, 32, 1065-1072.

The aim of this study was to test whether the relation between
physical discipline and child aggression was moderated by ethnic-group
status. A sample of 466 European American and 100 African American
children from a broad range of socioeconomic levels were followed from
kindergarten through 3rd grade. Mothers reported their use of physical
discipline in interviews and questionnaires, and mothers, teachers, and
peers rated children's externalizing problems annually. The interaction
between ethnic status and discipline was significant for teacher- and
peer-rated externalizing scores; physical discipline was associated with
higher externalizing scores, but only among European American children.
These findings provide evidence that the link between physical
punishment and child aggression may be culturally specific. "

Now, Doan, The Monkeyboy, if they were as sure of YOUR claim as you seem
to be, why did they use the term, "may be" as in culturally specific?

You will notice, chuckle this was NOT an observational longitudinal
study, but a series of INTERVIEWS. The answered were scored.

We can guess pretty well, given other studies of theirs, what that
socioeconomic levels were in the 100 AA families as compared to the Euro
Am families to the count of 466.

They didn't lie, but YOU most certainly did, or more likely are just
exhibiting your continuing stupidity and determined ignorance.

You draw conclusions that to not follow from the source provided.

Try again, stupid monkeyboy.

I provided a link. I expect you to meet the same level of response.

And you seem to be falling behind in your english comprehension classes
again.

The title of this article I provided isn't "research shows," it's, "Views"

Native English speakers usually recognize that quickly as "Opinion" and
it was not offered under any other claim than "Argument" from my title.

Neither of the words related to research.

As for the research you cite, but carefully don't link to, I'd like to
see the protocols for research, the methodology, if you will.

I'd like to see what YOU are calling "a lack of spanking." Lots of room
for abuse of the language and logic in that little phrase, monkeyboy.

I note this is from a 1996 study.

I quote an opinion from 2006.

He seems to disagree, as Black man, with the findings you have poorly
cited.

Many do, some very highly respected in the Black community and the
society at large, such as "Dr. Alvin Poussaint, a professor of
psychiatry at Harvard Medical School who has written extensively on
African-American issues, has long opposed the use of corporal punishment."

I presume he's tenured and a researcher.

Apparently he and these other leading Black community members don't
agree with the claim YOU are claiming the study YOU have poorly cited is
making:

http://www.stophitting.com/disatschool/aaLeadsBanCP.php

The signed this statement and it's publicly posted, so they are
obviously willing to stand up and be counted.

And you will see people from many professions and followings such as
Christian churches included.

Your cause is corrupt, Doan. Worn out old ignorant superstition, not
scientifically supported, nor is it morally supported, even by those YOU
and a few other sycophants would like to claim spanking is good.

There is no justifiable reason for using corporal punishment to teach or
control a child. None.

And these Black leaders know it too.

Mr. Muwakkil is expressing a new sentiment that is rapidly taking hold.

Read it an weep, little apologist for the compulsives.

0:-

"No one knew 30 years ago how traumatic spanking was to a child's
psyche. You should avoid using physical force on your child."
.. DR. ALVIN POUSSAINT

Doan

On Sat, 9 Sep 2006, 0:- wrote:

... spanking, of course.

http://www.inthesetimes.com/site/main/article/2812/

Views September 8, 2006 Web Only
Corporal Punishmentï¿½s Hidden Costs
By Salim Muwakkil

If the civil rights community began a movement to discourage
corporal punishment among African Americans, I believe it would do more
to stem the tide of interpersonal violence than any other strategy.

An errant bullet hit the eye of a 12-year-old Chicago girl on August 27
but she survived. Earlier this year, stray bullets killed two girls in
separate incidents in the cityï¿½s Englewood neighborhood and triggered a
flurry of activity designed to address the chronic violence hammering
Chicagoï¿½s inner-city neighborhoods.

In black communities across the United States, concerned people are
gathering with increasing urgency, seeking solutions to rising rates of
violence.

Let me add one suggestion that is not likely to be raised at any of
these gatherings: Stop spanking your children.

If the civil rights community began a movement to discourage corporal
punishment among African-Americans, I believe it would do more to stem
the tide of interpersonal violence than any other strategy.

Experts are increasingly fingering corporal punishmentï¿½the infliction of
physical pain on the body of a child for purposes of punishment or
controlling behaviorï¿½as the culprit in a wide variety of social
dysfunctions. A host of relevant professional organizations, including
the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Psychological
Association and the National Association of Social Workers have
published position papers opposing or strongly discouraging corporal
punishment of children.

International research on the deleterious effects of physical punishment
is so compelling that the United Nations has initiated a global program
to eliminate it. Not only is corporal punishment of children a violation
of human rights, the United Nations argued in a 2005 UNESCO publication,
that according to a preponderance of research, it is also
ï¿½counterproductive, relatively ineffective, dangerous and harmful.ï¿½

In 1979, Sweden became the first country in the world to ban all
corporal punishment of children. Twelve more European countries have
followed: Denmark, Norway, Finland, Austria, Cyprus, Italy, Croatia,
Latvia, Germany, Bulgaria, Ukraine and Iceland. Leaders in these
countries concluded that the costs of corporal punishment were too high
for a society that called itself civilized.

Despite this wide consensus on the ills of corporal punishment, there is
scant sentiment for an anti-spanking movement among African Americans.
But that may be changing. Growing numbers of experts who focus on the
black community, are also raising questions about the high costs of
using physical violence to punish children. Dr. Alvin Poussaint, a
professor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School who has written
extensively on African-American issues, has long opposed the use of
corporal punishment.

His major argument is simple: ï¿½the use of corporal punishment teaches
children that violence is the way to solve problems.ï¿½ Poussaint, who was
an adviser to the popular program ï¿½The Cosby Show,ï¿½ says corporal
punishment also has other harmful effects on the social life of the
black community.

At a recent forum on young black men, sponsored by the Washington Post
and the Kaiser Family Foundation, Poussaint fingered corporal punishment
as a factor in the disproportionate expulsions of black children from
pre-school programs, especially males. He said his research has found
that even preschool black males harbor a lot of anger.

ï¿½Thereï¿½s an overuse of beating kids,ï¿½ he said, breaking a major taboo
among black leadership by raising this issue. ï¿½So that you have 80
percent of black parents believing you should beat themï¿½beat the devil
out of them. And research shows the more you beat them, the angrier they
get.ï¿½

High levels of violent crime in black communities certainly reflect that
anger. According to figures from the Department of Justiceï¿½s Bureau of
Justice Statistics, African Americans were more likely than other
Americans to be both victims and perpetrators of violent crime.

In 2000, blacks were six times more likely than whites to be victims of
murder. They also were seven times more likely to be perpetrators. In
fact, for the last half-century blacks were homicide victims at least
five times more than whites were. Sometimes that rate reached more than
ten times the white rate.

Among the major reasons cited for this disparity are poverty,
segregation, media violence and the self-hatred inculcated by a white
supremacist culture. Some argue the problem is simply one of bad
behavior, abetted by black communities that deemphasize personal
responsibility and cultural standards.

There is a bit of truth in those explanations, but Poussaintï¿½s
anti-spanking reasoning also makes sense. What doesnï¿½t make sense is
that black leaders have yet to make the connection between high rates of
corporal punishment and high rates of interpersonal violence.

One reason for this reticence is the influence of the church. All
spanking advocates need to do is cite a biblical justification not to
--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)

--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)

--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)

**Doan** · September 12th 06, 06:35 AM posted to alt.parenting.spanking

On Mon, 11 Sep 2006, 0:- wrote:

Doan wrote:
Hahaha! Once again, Kane demonstrated his stupidity in public! He twisted
and he turned; anything he can to avoid the truth!

Let's see now. It was YOU, stupid monkeyboy that did not provide a link,
while it was I that did, to the material you claimed supported your
stupid "It is the lack of spanking that has been shown, repeatedly, to
be associates with higher misbehavior and agression in the Black
community." [sic] It showed nothing of the sort.

I provided the reference, STUPID. For $11.95 you can get a copy he
http://content.apa.org/journals/dev/32/6/1065.html

Try again, liar. 0:-

Hihihi! The prove liar here is YOU!

Doan

Doan

On Mon, 11 Sep 2006, 0:- wrote:

Doan wrote:
Hahaha! Kane is showing hist stupidity again. Any one who has read
the research on the effects of spanking on African American should know
that that, unlike white European American, spankings were associates with
lesser misbehavior and aggression. It is the lack of spanking that has
been shown, repeatedly, to be associates with higher misbehavior and
agression in the Black community.
Not so, monkeyboy. Prove your claim.

References:
Deater-Deckard, K., Bates, J.E., Dodge, K.A., Pettit, G.S. (1996).
Physical discipline among African American and European American mothers:
Links to children?s externalizing behaviors. Developmental Psychology,
32, 1065-1072.
R R R ....I notice you included NOTHING of their actual conclusions or
other significant portions of their research report...not even an
abstract. Tsk.

Let's see what it actually says, in the abstract, shall we eh?

Unlike you, who appear to be trying to conceal, as in LIE, I've even
provided the link:

http://www.indiana.edu/~batessdl/cdp_abstracts.html#961

"1996

* Deater-Deckard, K., Dodge, K.A., Bates, J.E., & Pettit, G.S.
(1996). Physical discipline among African-American and European-American
mothers: Links to children's externalizing behaviors. Developmental
Psychology, 32, 1065-1072.

The aim of this study was to test whether the relation between
physical discipline and child aggression was moderated by ethnic-group
status. A sample of 466 European American and 100 African American
children from a broad range of socioeconomic levels were followed from
kindergarten through 3rd grade. Mothers reported their use of physical
discipline in interviews and questionnaires, and mothers, teachers, and
peers rated children's externalizing problems annually. The interaction
between ethnic status and discipline was significant for teacher- and
peer-rated externalizing scores; physical discipline was associated with
higher externalizing scores, but only among European American children.
These findings provide evidence that the link between physical
punishment and child aggression may be culturally specific. "

Now, Doan, The Monkeyboy, if they were as sure of YOUR claim as you seem
to be, why did they use the term, "may be" as in culturally specific?

You will notice, chuckle this was NOT an observational longitudinal
study, but a series of INTERVIEWS. The answered were scored.

We can guess pretty well, given other studies of theirs, what that
socioeconomic levels were in the 100 AA families as compared to the Euro
Am families to the count of 466.

They didn't lie, but YOU most certainly did, or more likely are just
exhibiting your continuing stupidity and determined ignorance.

You draw conclusions that to not follow from the source provided.

Try again, stupid monkeyboy.

I provided a link. I expect you to meet the same level of response.

And you seem to be falling behind in your english comprehension classes
again.

The title of this article I provided isn't "research shows," it's, "Views"

Native English speakers usually recognize that quickly as "Opinion" and
it was not offered under any other claim than "Argument" from my title.

Neither of the words related to research.

As for the research you cite, but carefully don't link to, I'd like to
see the protocols for research, the methodology, if you will.

I'd like to see what YOU are calling "a lack of spanking." Lots of room
for abuse of the language and logic in that little phrase, monkeyboy.

I note this is from a 1996 study.

I quote an opinion from 2006.

He seems to disagree, as Black man, with the findings you have poorly
cited.

Many do, some very highly respected in the Black community and the
society at large, such as "Dr. Alvin Poussaint, a professor of
psychiatry at Harvard Medical School who has written extensively on
African-American issues, has long opposed the use of corporal punishment."

I presume he's tenured and a researcher.

Apparently he and these other leading Black community members don't
agree with the claim YOU are claiming the study YOU have poorly cited is
making:

http://www.stophitting.com/disatschool/aaLeadsBanCP.php

The signed this statement and it's publicly posted, so they are
obviously willing to stand up and be counted.

And you will see people from many professions and followings such as
Christian churches included.

Your cause is corrupt, Doan. Worn out old ignorant superstition, not
scientifically supported, nor is it morally supported, even by those YOU
and a few other sycophants would like to claim spanking is good.

There is no justifiable reason for using corporal punishment to teach or
control a child. None.

And these Black leaders know it too.

Mr. Muwakkil is expressing a new sentiment that is rapidly taking hold.

Read it an weep, little apologist for the compulsives.

0:-

"No one knew 30 years ago how traumatic spanking was to a child's
psyche. You should avoid using physical force on your child."
.. DR. ALVIN POUSSAINT

Doan

On Sat, 9 Sep 2006, 0:- wrote:

... spanking, of course.

http://www.inthesetimes.com/site/main/article/2812/

Views September 8, 2006 Web Only
Corporal Punishmentï¿½s Hidden Costs
By Salim Muwakkil

If the civil rights community began a movement to discourage
corporal punishment among African Americans, I believe it would do more
to stem the tide of interpersonal violence than any other strategy.

An errant bullet hit the eye of a 12-year-old Chicago girl on August 27
but she survived. Earlier this year, stray bullets killed two girls in
separate incidents in the cityï¿½s Englewood neighborhood and triggered a
flurry of activity designed to address the chronic violence hammering
Chicagoï¿½s inner-city neighborhoods.

In black communities across the United States, concerned people are
gathering with increasing urgency, seeking solutions to rising rates of
violence.

Let me add one suggestion that is not likely to be raised at any of
these gatherings: Stop spanking your children.

If the civil rights community began a movement to discourage corporal
punishment among African-Americans, I believe it would do more to stem
the tide of interpersonal violence than any other strategy.

Experts are increasingly fingering corporal punishmentï¿½the infliction of
physical pain on the body of a child for purposes of punishment or
controlling behaviorï¿½as the culprit in a wide variety of social
dysfunctions. A host of relevant professional organizations, including
the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Psychological
Association and the National Association of Social Workers have
published position papers opposing or strongly discouraging corporal
punishment of children.

International research on the deleterious effects of physical punishment
is so compelling that the United Nations has initiated a global program
to eliminate it. Not only is corporal punishment of children a violation
of human rights, the United Nations argued in a 2005 UNESCO publication,
that according to a preponderance of research, it is also
ï¿½counterproductive, relatively ineffective, dangerous and harmful.ï¿½

In 1979, Sweden became the first country in the world to ban all
corporal punishment of children. Twelve more European countries have
followed: Denmark, Norway, Finland, Austria, Cyprus, Italy, Croatia,
Latvia, Germany, Bulgaria, Ukraine and Iceland. Leaders in these
countries concluded that the costs of corporal punishment were too high
for a society that called itself civilized.

Despite this wide consensus on the ills of corporal punishment, there is
scant sentiment for an anti-spanking movement among African Americans.
But that may be changing. Growing numbers of experts who focus on the
black community, are also raising questions about the high costs of
using physical violence to punish children. Dr. Alvin Poussaint, a
professor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School who has written
extensively on African-American issues, has long opposed the use of
corporal punishment.

His major argument is simple: ï¿½the use of corporal punishment teaches
children that violence is the way to solve problems.ï¿½ Poussaint, who was
an adviser to the popular program ï¿½The Cosby Show,ï¿½ says corporal
punishment also has other harmful effects on the social life of the
black community.

At a recent forum on young black men, sponsored by the Washington Post
and the Kaiser Family Foundation, Poussaint fingered corporal punishment
as a factor in the disproportionate expulsions of black children from
pre-school programs, especially males. He said his research has found
that even preschool black males harbor a lot of anger.

ï¿½Thereï¿½s an overuse of beating kids,ï¿½ he said, breaking a major taboo
among black leadership by raising this issue. ï¿½So that you have 80
percent of black parents believing you should beat themï¿½beat the devil
out of them. And research shows the more you beat them, the angrier they
get.ï¿½

High levels of violent crime in black communities certainly reflect that
anger. According to figures from the Department of Justiceï¿½s Bureau of
Justice Statistics, African Americans were more likely than other
Americans to be both victims and perpetrators of violent crime.

In 2000, blacks were six times more likely than whites to be victims of
murder. They also were seven times more likely to be perpetrators. In
fact, for the last half-century blacks were homicide victims at least
five times more than whites were. Sometimes that rate reached more than
ten times the white rate.

Among the major reasons cited for this disparity are poverty,
segregation, media violence and the self-hatred inculcated by a white
supremacist culture. Some argue the problem is simply one of bad
behavior, abetted by black communities that deemphasize personal
responsibility and cultural standards.

There is a bit of truth in those explanations, but Poussaintï¿½s
anti-spanking reasoning also makes sense. What doesnï¿½t make sense is
that black leaders have yet to make the connection between high rates of
corporal punishment and high rates of interpersonal violence.

One reason for this reticence is the influence of the church. All
spanking advocates need to do is cite a biblical justification not to

--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)

--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)

**Doan** · September 12th 06, 06:52 AM posted to alt.parenting.spanking

On Mon, 11 Sep 2006, 0:- wrote:

Doan wrote:
Hahaha! Kane is showing hist stupidity again. Any one who has read
the research on the effects of spanking on African American should know
that that, unlike white European American, spankings were associates with
lesser misbehavior and aggression. It is the lack of spanking that has
been shown, repeatedly, to be associates with higher misbehavior and
agression in the Black community.

Not so, monkeyboy. Prove your claim.

Hihihi! Here is a more recent study:

More study on the benefit of spanking on Black community.
"Regression slopes showed that the experience of physical discipline
at each time point was related to higher level of externalizing behaviors
for European American adlolescents but lower level of externalizing
behaviors for African American adolescents."

Sources:
Ethnic differences in the link between physical discipline and later
adolescent externalizing behaviors, Jennifer E. Lansford, Kirby
Deater-Deckard, Kenneth A. Dodge, John E. Bates, and Gregory S. Pettit
Journal of Child Psychology and Psychiatry (2004).

References:
Deater-Deckard, K., Bates, J.E., Dodge, K.A., Pettit, G.S. (1996).
Physical discipline among African American and European American mothers:
Links to children?s externalizing behaviors. Developmental Psychology,
32, 1065-1072.

R R R ....I notice you included NOTHING of their actual conclusions or
other significant portions of their research report...not even an
abstract. Tsk.

Let's see what it actually says, in the abstract, shall we eh?

Unlike you, who appear to be trying to conceal, as in LIE, I've even
provided the link:

Hihihi! The "never-spanked" boy tried his "formidable research skill"
again.

http://www.indiana.edu/~batessdl/cdp_abstracts.html#961

"1996

* Deater-Deckard, K., Dodge, K.A., Bates, J.E., & Pettit, G.S.
(1996). Physical discipline among African-American and European-American
mothers: Links to children's externalizing behaviors. Developmental
Psychology, 32, 1065-1072.

The aim of this study was to test whether the relation between
physical discipline and child aggression was moderated by ethnic-group
status. A sample of 466 European American and 100 African American
children from a broad range of socioeconomic levels were followed from
kindergarten through 3rd grade. Mothers reported their use of physical
discipline in interviews and questionnaires, and mothers, teachers, and
peers rated children's externalizing problems annually. The interaction
between ethnic status and discipline was significant for teacher- and
peer-rated externalizing scores; physical discipline was associated with
higher externalizing scores, but only among European American children.
These findings provide evidence that the link between physical
punishment and child aggression may be culturally specific. "

Now, Doan, The Monkeyboy, if they were as sure of YOUR claim as you seem
to be, why did they use the term, "may be" as in culturally specific?

Which part of "but only among European American children" don't you
understand?

You will notice, chuckle this was NOT an observational longitudinal
study, but a series of INTERVIEWS. The answered were scored.

Hihihi! Do you even understand what you are saying? Why don't you ask
your master LaVonne for a lesson in research methodology? STOP making
a fool of yourself, STUPID!

We can guess pretty well, given other studies of theirs, what that
socioeconomic levels were in the 100 AA families as compared to the Euro
Am families to the count of 466.

Hihihi! What a fool!

They didn't lie, but YOU most certainly did, or more likely are just
exhibiting your continuing stupidity and determined ignorance.

That you describing yourself! ;-)

You draw conclusions that to not follow from the source provided.

Hihihi! Which part of "but only among European American children" don't
you understand?

Try again, stupid monkeyboy.

Hihihi! Back to adhom again. How predictable you are!

I provided a link. I expect you to meet the same level of response.

I'll do better than that. I'll even provide the original source:

http://content.apa.org/journals/dev/32/6/1065

And you seem to be falling behind in your english comprehension classes
again.

Hihihi! Which par of "but only among European American children" don't
you understand, "never-spanked" boy?

The title of this article I provided isn't "research shows," it's, "Views"

Hahaha! That's a laugh! So you don't even have a research to back it up.

Native English speakers usually recognize that quickly as "Opinion" and
it was not offered under any other claim than "Argument" from my title.

Yup! "Opininion" is like an asshole; everybody got one! ;-)

Neither of the words related to research.

Hihihi! So you want provide "opinion" instead of facts!

As for the research you cite, but carefully don't link to, I'd like to
see the protocols for research, the methodology, if you will.

Look it up with your "formidable research skill"! ;-)

I'd like to see what YOU are calling "a lack of spanking." Lots of room
for abuse of the language and logic in that little phrase, monkeyboy.

Hihihi!

I note this is from a 1996 study.

Facts.

I quote an opinion from 2006.

vs. opinion.

He seems to disagree, as Black man, with the findings you have poorly
cited.

Hahaha! Do you even read what you wrote?

Many do, some very highly respected in the Black community and the
society at large, such as "Dr. Alvin Poussaint, a professor of
psychiatry at Harvard Medical School who has written extensively on
African-American issues, has long opposed the use of corporal punishment."

What research has he authored?

I presume he's tenured and a researcher.

Appealing to Authority. A logical flaw! ;-)

Apparently he and these other leading Black community members don't
agree with the claim YOU are claiming the study YOU have poorly cited is
making:

Opinion vs. facts! QED!

Doan

http://www.stophitting.com/disatschool/aaLeadsBanCP.php

The signed this statement and it's publicly posted, so they are
obviously willing to stand up and be counted.

And you will see people from many professions and followings such as
Christian churches included.

Your cause is corrupt, Doan. Worn out old ignorant superstition, not
scientifically supported, nor is it morally supported, even by those YOU
and a few other sycophants would like to claim spanking is good.

There is no justifiable reason for using corporal punishment to teach or
control a child. None.

And these Black leaders know it too.

Mr. Muwakkil is expressing a new sentiment that is rapidly taking hold.

Read it an weep, little apologist for the compulsives.

0:-

"No one knew 30 years ago how traumatic spanking was to a child's
psyche. You should avoid using physical force on your child."
.. DR. ALVIN POUSSAINT

Doan

On Sat, 9 Sep 2006, 0:- wrote:

... spanking, of course.

http://www.inthesetimes.com/site/main/article/2812/

Views September 8, 2006 Web Only
Corporal Punishmentï¿½s Hidden Costs
By Salim Muwakkil

If the civil rights community began a movement to discourage
corporal punishment among African Americans, I believe it would do more
to stem the tide of interpersonal violence than any other strategy.

An errant bullet hit the eye of a 12-year-old Chicago girl on August 27
but she survived. Earlier this year, stray bullets killed two girls in
separate incidents in the cityï¿½s Englewood neighborhood and triggered a
flurry of activity designed to address the chronic violence hammering
Chicagoï¿½s inner-city neighborhoods.

In black communities across the United States, concerned people are
gathering with increasing urgency, seeking solutions to rising rates of
violence.

Let me add one suggestion that is not likely to be raised at any of
these gatherings: Stop spanking your children.

If the civil rights community began a movement to discourage corporal
punishment among African-Americans, I believe it would do more to stem
the tide of interpersonal violence than any other strategy.

Experts are increasingly fingering corporal punishmentï¿½the infliction of
physical pain on the body of a child for purposes of punishment or
controlling behaviorï¿½as the culprit in a wide variety of social
dysfunctions. A host of relevant professional organizations, including
the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Psychological
Association and the National Association of Social Workers have
published position papers opposing or strongly discouraging corporal
punishment of children.

International research on the deleterious effects of physical punishment
is so compelling that the United Nations has initiated a global program
to eliminate it. Not only is corporal punishment of children a violation
of human rights, the United Nations argued in a 2005 UNESCO publication,
that according to a preponderance of research, it is also
ï¿½counterproductive, relatively ineffective, dangerous and harmful.ï¿½

In 1979, Sweden became the first country in the world to ban all
corporal punishment of children. Twelve more European countries have
followed: Denmark, Norway, Finland, Austria, Cyprus, Italy, Croatia,
Latvia, Germany, Bulgaria, Ukraine and Iceland. Leaders in these
countries concluded that the costs of corporal punishment were too high
for a society that called itself civilized.

Despite this wide consensus on the ills of corporal punishment, there is
scant sentiment for an anti-spanking movement among African Americans.
But that may be changing. Growing numbers of experts who focus on the
black community, are also raising questions about the high costs of
using physical violence to punish children. Dr. Alvin Poussaint, a
professor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School who has written
extensively on African-American issues, has long opposed the use of
corporal punishment.

His major argument is simple: ï¿½the use of corporal punishment teaches
children that violence is the way to solve problems.ï¿½ Poussaint, who was
an adviser to the popular program ï¿½The Cosby Show,ï¿½ says corporal
punishment also has other harmful effects on the social life of the
black community.

At a recent forum on young black men, sponsored by the Washington Post
and the Kaiser Family Foundation, Poussaint fingered corporal punishment
as a factor in the disproportionate expulsions of black children from
pre-school programs, especially males. He said his research has found
that even preschool black males harbor a lot of anger.

ï¿½Thereï¿½s an overuse of beating kids,ï¿½ he said, breaking a major taboo
among black leadership by raising this issue. ï¿½So that you have 80
percent of black parents believing you should beat themï¿½beat the devil
out of them. And research shows the more you beat them, the angrier they
get.ï¿½

High levels of violent crime in black communities certainly reflect that
anger. According to figures from the Department of Justiceï¿½s Bureau of
Justice Statistics, African Americans were more likely than other
Americans to be both victims and perpetrators of violent crime.

In 2000, blacks were six times more likely than whites to be victims of
murder. They also were seven times more likely to be perpetrators. In
fact, for the last half-century blacks were homicide victims at least
five times more than whites were. Sometimes that rate reached more than
ten times the white rate.

Among the major reasons cited for this disparity are poverty,
segregation, media violence and the self-hatred inculcated by a white
supremacist culture. Some argue the problem is simply one of bad
behavior, abetted by black communities that deemphasize personal
responsibility and cultural standards.

There is a bit of truth in those explanations, but Poussaintï¿½s
anti-spanking reasoning also makes sense. What doesnï¿½t make sense is
that black leaders have yet to make the connection between high rates of
corporal punishment and high rates of interpersonal violence.

One reason for this reticence is the influence of the church. All
spanking advocates need to do is cite a biblical justification not to

--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)

**0:->** · September 12th 06, 12:18 PM posted to alt.parenting.spanking

Doan wrote:
Yet more STUPIDITY from anti-spanking zealotS, whose mother taught that it
is ok to call other women a "smelly-****"! What a testament to the
anti-spanking agenda! ;-)

Note the title of thread opening post by Fern
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.s...fe075d d87035

" Cocksucker Cardinal George refuses to talk to the victims of pedophile
priests (Why transgendered Cathol

Fixed font - Proportional font

From: Fern5827 - view profile
Date: Wed, Oct 30 2002 7:53 am
Email: (Fern5827)
Groups: alt.support.child-protective-services"

Yep, those pro spankers are certainly polite and obscenity free.

Doan

On Mon, 11 Sep 2006, 0:- wrote:

Doan wrote:

...yet more incoherent babbling spew from the Ranting, Screeching,
Hysterical, Dancing, Monkeyboy. ....

On Mon, 11 Sep 2006, 0:- wrote:

Doan wrote:
Hahaha! Once again, Kane demonstrated his stupidity in public! He twisted
and he turned; anything he can to avoid the truth!
Let's see now. It was YOU, stupid monkeyboy that did not provide a link,
while it was I that did, to the material you claimed supported your
stupid "It is the lack of spanking that has been shown, repeatedly, to
be associates with higher misbehavior and agression in the Black
community." [sic] It showed nothing of the sort.

Hahaha! Showing your STUPIDITY, again. Can even understand what the
research say. YOU ARE STUPID!

Try again, liar. 0:-

The only liar here is you! ;-)

AF

Doan

On Mon, 11 Sep 2006, 0:- wrote:

Doan wrote:
Hahaha! Kane is showing hist stupidity again. Any one who has read
the research on the effects of spanking on African American should know
that that, unlike white European American, spankings were associates with
lesser misbehavior and aggression. It is the lack of spanking that has
been shown, repeatedly, to be associates with higher misbehavior and
agression in the Black community.
Not so, monkeyboy. Prove your claim.

References:
Deater-Deckard, K., Bates, J.E., Dodge, K.A., Pettit, G.S. (1996).
Physical discipline among African American and European American mothers:
Links to children?s externalizing behaviors. Developmental Psychology,
32, 1065-1072.
R R R ....I notice you included NOTHING of their actual conclusions or
other significant portions of their research report...not even an
abstract. Tsk.

Let's see what it actually says, in the abstract, shall we eh?

Unlike you, who appear to be trying to conceal, as in LIE, I've even
provided the link:

http://www.indiana.edu/~batessdl/cdp_abstracts.html#961

"1996

* Deater-Deckard, K., Dodge, K.A., Bates, J.E., & Pettit, G.S.
(1996). Physical discipline among African-American and European-American
mothers: Links to children's externalizing behaviors. Developmental
Psychology, 32, 1065-1072.

The aim of this study was to test whether the relation between
physical discipline and child aggression was moderated by ethnic-group
status. A sample of 466 European American and 100 African American
children from a broad range of socioeconomic levels were followed from
kindergarten through 3rd grade. Mothers reported their use of physical
discipline in interviews and questionnaires, and mothers, teachers, and
peers rated children's externalizing problems annually. The interaction
between ethnic status and discipline was significant for teacher- and
peer-rated externalizing scores; physical discipline was associated with
higher externalizing scores, but only among European American children.
These findings provide evidence that the link between physical
punishment and child aggression may be culturally specific. "

Now, Doan, The Monkeyboy, if they were as sure of YOUR claim as you seem
to be, why did they use the term, "may be" as in culturally specific?

You will notice, chuckle this was NOT an observational longitudinal
study, but a series of INTERVIEWS. The answered were scored.

We can guess pretty well, given other studies of theirs, what that
socioeconomic levels were in the 100 AA families as compared to the Euro
Am families to the count of 466.

They didn't lie, but YOU most certainly did, or more likely are just
exhibiting your continuing stupidity and determined ignorance.

You draw conclusions that to not follow from the source provided.

Try again, stupid monkeyboy.

I provided a link. I expect you to meet the same level of response.

And you seem to be falling behind in your english comprehension classes
again.

The title of this article I provided isn't "research shows," it's, "Views"

Native English speakers usually recognize that quickly as "Opinion" and
it was not offered under any other claim than "Argument" from my title.

Neither of the words related to research.

As for the research you cite, but carefully don't link to, I'd like to
see the protocols for research, the methodology, if you will.

I'd like to see what YOU are calling "a lack of spanking." Lots of room
for abuse of the language and logic in that little phrase, monkeyboy.

I note this is from a 1996 study.

I quote an opinion from 2006.

He seems to disagree, as Black man, with the findings you have poorly
cited.

Many do, some very highly respected in the Black community and the
society at large, such as "Dr. Alvin Poussaint, a professor of
psychiatry at Harvard Medical School who has written extensively on
African-American issues, has long opposed the use of corporal punishment."

I presume he's tenured and a researcher.

Apparently he and these other leading Black community members don't
agree with the claim YOU are claiming the study YOU have poorly cited is
making:

http://www.stophitting.com/disatschool/aaLeadsBanCP.php

The signed this statement and it's publicly posted, so they are
obviously willing to stand up and be counted.

And you will see people from many professions and followings such as
Christian churches included.

Your cause is corrupt, Doan. Worn out old ignorant superstition, not
scientifically supported, nor is it morally supported, even by those YOU
and a few other sycophants would like to claim spanking is good.

There is no justifiable reason for using corporal punishment to teach or
control a child. None.

And these Black leaders know it too.

Mr. Muwakkil is expressing a new sentiment that is rapidly taking hold.

Read it an weep, little apologist for the compulsives.

0:-

"No one knew 30 years ago how traumatic spanking was to a child's
psyche. You should avoid using physical force on your child."
.. DR. ALVIN POUSSAINT

Doan

On Sat, 9 Sep 2006, 0:- wrote:

... spanking, of course.

http://www.inthesetimes.com/site/main/article/2812/

Views September 8, 2006 Web Only
Corporal Punishmentï¿½s Hidden Costs
By Salim Muwakkil

If the civil rights community began a movement to discourage
corporal punishment among African Americans, I believe it would do more
to stem the tide of interpersonal violence than any other strategy.

An errant bullet hit the eye of a 12-year-old Chicago girl on August 27
but she survived. Earlier this year, stray bullets killed two girls in
separate incidents in the cityï¿½s Englewood neighborhood and triggered a
flurry of activity designed to address the chronic violence hammering
Chicagoï¿½s inner-city neighborhoods.

In black communities across the United States, concerned people are
gathering with increasing urgency, seeking solutions to rising rates of
violence.

Let me add one suggestion that is not likely to be raised at any of
these gatherings: Stop spanking your children.

If the civil rights community began a movement to discourage corporal
punishment among African-Americans, I believe it would do more to stem
the tide of interpersonal violence than any other strategy.

Experts are increasingly fingering corporal punishmentï¿½the infliction of
physical pain on the body of a child for purposes of punishment or
controlling behaviorï¿½as the culprit in a wide variety of social
dysfunctions. A host of relevant professional organizations, including
the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Psychological
Association and the National Association of Social Workers have
published position papers opposing or strongly discouraging corporal
punishment of children.

International research on the deleterious effects of physical punishment
is so compelling that the United Nations has initiated a global program
to eliminate it. Not only is corporal punishment of children a violation
of human rights, the United Nations argued in a 2005 UNESCO publication,
that according to a preponderance of research, it is also
ï¿½counterproductive, relatively ineffective, dangerous and harmful.ï¿½

In 1979, Sweden became the first country in the world to ban all
corporal punishment of children. Twelve more European countries have
followed: Denmark, Norway, Finland, Austria, Cyprus, Italy, Croatia,
Latvia, Germany, Bulgaria, Ukraine and Iceland. Leaders in these
countries concluded that the costs of corporal punishment were too high
for a society that called itself civilized.

Despite this wide consensus on the ills of corporal punishment, there is
scant sentiment for an anti-spanking movement among African Americans.
But that may be changing. Growing numbers of experts who focus on the
black community, are also raising questions about the high costs of
using physical violence to punish children. Dr. Alvin Poussaint, a
professor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School who has written
extensively on African-American issues, has long opposed the use of
corporal punishment.

His major argument is simple: ï¿½the use of corporal punishment teaches
children that violence is the way to solve problems.ï¿½ Poussaint, who was
an adviser to the popular program ï¿½The Cosby Show,ï¿½ says corporal
punishment also has other harmful effects on the social life of the
black community.

At a recent forum on young black men, sponsored by the Washington Post
and the Kaiser Family Foundation, Poussaint fingered corporal punishment
as a factor in the disproportionate expulsions of black children from
pre-school programs, especially males. He said his research has found
that even preschool black males harbor a lot of anger.

ï¿½Thereï¿½s an overuse of beating kids,ï¿½ he said, breaking a major taboo
among black leadership by raising this issue. ï¿½So that you have 80
percent of black parents believing you should beat themï¿½beat the devil
out of them. And research shows the more you beat them, the angrier they
get.ï¿½

High levels of violent crime in black communities certainly reflect that
anger. According to figures from the Department of Justiceï¿½s Bureau of
Justice Statistics, African Americans were more likely than other
Americans to be both victims and perpetrators of violent crime.

In 2000, blacks were six times more likely than whites to be victims of
murder. They also were seven times more likely to be perpetrators. In
fact, for the last half-century blacks were homicide victims at least
five times more than whites were. Sometimes that rate reached more than
ten times the white rate.

Among the major reasons cited for this disparity are poverty,
segregation, media violence and the self-hatred inculcated by a white
supremacist culture. Some argue the problem is simply one of bad
behavior, abetted by black communities that deemphasize personal
responsibility and cultural standards.

There is a bit of truth in those explanations, but Poussaintï¿½s
anti-spanking reasoning also makes sense. What doesnï¿½t make sense is
that black leaders have yet to make the connection between high rates of
corporal punishment and high rates of interpersonal violence.

One reason for this reticence is the influence of the church. All
spanking advocates need to do is cite a biblical justification not to
--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)

--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)

--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)

--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)

**Greegor** · September 19th 06, 12:20 PM posted to alt.parenting.spanking

Way to go Doan!

Watch him try DENIAL, attack the sources, anything
to try to weasel out of acceptance!

He's like a CATHARTIC kid with oppositional defiant
disorder who just can't understand WHY you had the
nerve to SPANK him.

Doan wrote:
On Mon, 11 Sep 2006, 0:- wrote:

Doan wrote:
Hahaha! Kane is showing hist stupidity again. Any one who has read
the research on the effects of spanking on African American should know
that that, unlike white European American, spankings were associates with
lesser misbehavior and aggression. It is the lack of spanking that has
been shown, repeatedly, to be associates with higher misbehavior and
agression in the Black community.

Not so, monkeyboy. Prove your claim.

Hihihi! Here is a more recent study:

More study on the benefit of spanking on Black community.
"Regression slopes showed that the experience of physical discipline
at each time point was related to higher level of externalizing behaviors
for European American adlolescents but lower level of externalizing
behaviors for African American adolescents."

Sources:
Ethnic differences in the link between physical discipline and later
adolescent externalizing behaviors, Jennifer E. Lansford, Kirby
Deater-Deckard, Kenneth A. Dodge, John E. Bates, and Gregory S. Pettit
Journal of Child Psychology and Psychiatry (2004).

References:
Deater-Deckard, K., Bates, J.E., Dodge, K.A., Pettit, G.S. (1996).
Physical discipline among African American and European American mothers:
Links to children?s externalizing behaviors. Developmental Psychology,
32, 1065-1072.

R R R ....I notice you included NOTHING of their actual conclusions or
other significant portions of their research report...not even an
abstract. Tsk.

Let's see what it actually says, in the abstract, shall we eh?

Unlike you, who appear to be trying to conceal, as in LIE, I've even
provided the link:

Hihihi! The "never-spanked" boy tried his "formidable research skill"
again.

http://www.indiana.edu/~batessdl/cdp_abstracts.html#961

"1996

* Deater-Deckard, K., Dodge, K.A., Bates, J.E., & Pettit, G.S.
(1996). Physical discipline among African-American and European-American
mothers: Links to children's externalizing behaviors. Developmental
Psychology, 32, 1065-1072.

The aim of this study was to test whether the relation between
physical discipline and child aggression was moderated by ethnic-group
status. A sample of 466 European American and 100 African American
children from a broad range of socioeconomic levels were followed from
kindergarten through 3rd grade. Mothers reported their use of physical
discipline in interviews and questionnaires, and mothers, teachers, and
peers rated children's externalizing problems annually. The interaction
between ethnic status and discipline was significant for teacher- and
peer-rated externalizing scores; physical discipline was associated with
higher externalizing scores, but only among European American children.
These findings provide evidence that the link between physical
punishment and child aggression may be culturally specific. "

Now, Doan, The Monkeyboy, if they were as sure of YOUR claim as you seem
to be, why did they use the term, "may be" as in culturally specific?

Which part of "but only among European American children" don't you
understand?

You will notice, chuckle this was NOT an observational longitudinal
study, but a series of INTERVIEWS. The answered were scored.

Hihihi! Do you even understand what you are saying? Why don't you ask
your master LaVonne for a lesson in research methodology? STOP making
a fool of yourself, STUPID!

We can guess pretty well, given other studies of theirs, what that
socioeconomic levels were in the 100 AA families as compared to the Euro
Am families to the count of 466.

Hihihi! What a fool!

They didn't lie, but YOU most certainly did, or more likely are just
exhibiting your continuing stupidity and determined ignorance.

That you describing yourself! ;-)

You draw conclusions that to not follow from the source provided.

Hihihi! Which part of "but only among European American children" don't
you understand?

Try again, stupid monkeyboy.

Hihihi! Back to adhom again. How predictable you are!

I provided a link. I expect you to meet the same level of response.

I'll do better than that. I'll even provide the original source:

http://content.apa.org/journals/dev/32/6/1065

And you seem to be falling behind in your english comprehension classes
again.

Hihihi! Which par of "but only among European American children" don't
you understand, "never-spanked" boy?

The title of this article I provided isn't "research shows," it's, "Views"

Hahaha! That's a laugh! So you don't even have a research to back it up.

Native English speakers usually recognize that quickly as "Opinion" and
it was not offered under any other claim than "Argument" from my title.

Yup! "Opininion" is like an asshole; everybody got one! ;-)

Neither of the words related to research.

Hihihi! So you want provide "opinion" instead of facts!

As for the research you cite, but carefully don't link to, I'd like to
see the protocols for research, the methodology, if you will.

Look it up with your "formidable research skill"! ;-)

I'd like to see what YOU are calling "a lack of spanking." Lots of room
for abuse of the language and logic in that little phrase, monkeyboy.

Hihihi!

I note this is from a 1996 study.

Facts.

I quote an opinion from 2006.

vs. opinion.

He seems to disagree, as Black man, with the findings you have poorly
cited.

Hahaha! Do you even read what you wrote?

Many do, some very highly respected in the Black community and the
society at large, such as "Dr. Alvin Poussaint, a professor of
psychiatry at Harvard Medical School who has written extensively on
African-American issues, has long opposed the use of corporal punishment."

What research has he authored?

I presume he's tenured and a researcher.

Appealing to Authority. A logical flaw! ;-)

Apparently he and these other leading Black community members don't
agree with the claim YOU are claiming the study YOU have poorly cited is
making:

Opinion vs. facts! QED!

Doan

http://www.stophitting.com/disatschool/aaLeadsBanCP.php

The signed this statement and it's publicly posted, so they are
obviously willing to stand up and be counted.

And you will see people from many professions and followings such as
Christian churches included.

Your cause is corrupt, Doan. Worn out old ignorant superstition, not
scientifically supported, nor is it morally supported, even by those YOU
and a few other sycophants would like to claim spanking is good.

There is no justifiable reason for using corporal punishment to teach or
control a child. None.

And these Black leaders know it too.

Mr. Muwakkil is expressing a new sentiment that is rapidly taking hold.

Read it an weep, little apologist for the compulsives.

0:-

"No one knew 30 years ago how traumatic spanking was to a child's
psyche. You should avoid using physical force on your child."
.. DR. ALVIN POUSSAINT

Doan

On Sat, 9 Sep 2006, 0:- wrote:

... spanking, of course.

http://www.inthesetimes.com/site/main/article/2812/

Views September 8, 2006 Web Only
Corporal Punishment?s Hidden Costs
By Salim Muwakkil

If the civil rights community began a movement to discourage
corporal punishment among African Americans, I believe it would do more
to stem the tide of interpersonal violence than any other strategy.

An errant bullet hit the eye of a 12-year-old Chicago girl on August 27
but she survived. Earlier this year, stray bullets killed two girls in
separate incidents in the city?s Englewood neighborhood and triggered a
flurry of activity designed to address the chronic violence hammering
Chicago?s inner-city neighborhoods.

In black communities across the United States, concerned people are
gathering with increasing urgency, seeking solutions to rising rates of
violence.

Let me add one suggestion that is not likely to be raised at any of
these gatherings: Stop spanking your children.

If the civil rights community began a movement to discourage corporal
punishment among African-Americans, I believe it would do more to stem
the tide of interpersonal violence than any other strategy.

Experts are increasingly fingering corporal punishment?the infliction of
physical pain on the body of a child for purposes of punishment or
controlling behavior?as the culprit in a wide variety of social
dysfunctions. A host of relevant professional organizations, including
the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Psychological
Association and the National Association of Social Workers have
published position papers opposing or strongly discouraging corporal
punishment of children.

International research on the deleterious effects of physical punishment
is so compelling that the United Nations has initiated a global program
to eliminate it. Not only is corporal punishment of children a violation
of human rights, the United Nations argued in a 2005 UNESCO publication,
that according to a preponderance of research, it is also
?counterproductive, relatively ineffective, dangerous and harmful.?

In 1979, Sweden became the first country in the world to ban all
corporal punishment of children. Twelve more European countries have
followed: Denmark, Norway, Finland, Austria, Cyprus, Italy, Croatia,
Latvia, Germany, Bulgaria, Ukraine and Iceland. Leaders in these
countries concluded that the costs of corporal punishment were too high
for a society that called itself civilized.

Despite this wide consensus on the ills of corporal punishment, there is
scant sentiment for an anti-spanking movement among African Americans.
But that may be changing. Growing numbers of experts who focus on the
black community, are also raising questions about the high costs of
using physical violence to punish children. Dr. Alvin Poussaint, a
professor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School who has written
extensively on African-American issues, has long opposed the use of
corporal punishment.

His major argument is simple: ?the use of corporal punishment teaches
children that violence is the way to solve problems.? Poussaint, who was
an adviser to the popular program ?The Cosby Show,? says corporal
punishment also has other harmful effects on the social life of the
black community.

At a recent forum on young black men, sponsored by the Washington Post
and the Kaiser Family Foundation, Poussaint fingered corporal punishment
as a factor in the disproportionate expulsions of black children from
pre-school programs, especially males. He said his research has found
that even preschool black males harbor a lot of anger.

?There?s an overuse of beating kids,? he said, breaking a major taboo
among black leadership by raising this issue. ?So that you have 80
percent of black parents believing you should beat them?beat the devil
out of them. And research shows the more you beat them, the angrier they
get.?

High levels of violent crime in black communities certainly reflect that
anger. According to figures from the Department of Justice?s Bureau of
Justice Statistics, African Americans were more likely than other
Americans to be both victims and perpetrators of violent crime.

In 2000, blacks were six times more likely than whites to be victims of
murder. They also were seven times more likely to be perpetrators. In
fact, for the last half-century blacks were homicide victims at least
five times more than whites were. Sometimes that rate reached more than
ten times the white rate.

Among the major reasons cited for this disparity are poverty,
segregation, media violence and the self-hatred inculcated by a white
supremacist culture. Some argue the problem is simply one of bad
behavior, abetted by black communities that deemphasize personal
responsibility and cultural standards.

There is a bit of truth in those explanations, but Poussaint?s
anti-spanking reasoning also makes sense. What doesn?t make sense is
that black leaders have yet to make the connection between high rates of
corporal punishment and high rates of interpersonal violence.

One reason for this reticence is the influence of the church. All
spanking advocates need to do is cite a biblical justification not to

--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)

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