She never gets enough money!

"Roger_N" wrote

"Gini" wrote

"Roger_N" wrote
I pay for family health insurance to cover my kids and she gets the
co-pays paid by public aid (she doesn't have to claim CS as income).
==
??

There is a co-pay of $25 on doctor visits, $150 on ER visits, $10-$20 on
prescription drugs. I have to pay these co-pays for my household. For
her, the co-pays are paid by public aid or medical card or something. I
got in trouble at work because she was having the pharmacy submit the
bills to public aid instead of the insurance first. Public aid sent a
letter to my work wanting the money, my employer paid it because the
insurance refused to, I ended up having to pay ~$300 in co-pays for her
illegal actions. I'm not sure if Public Aid medical or whatever counts
CS, but most forms I've seen don't require you to submit CS as income.
==
I dunno. Seems like she would have to declare it as income. Too, if she's on
public aid, how does she manage to get the CS rather than the state? Are you
not in the US?
==

"Gini" wrote in message
news:TnD8i.4066$WE4.677@trndny01...

"Roger_N" wrote

"Gini" wrote

"Roger_N" wrote
I pay for family health insurance to cover my kids and she gets the
co-pays paid by public aid (she doesn't have to claim CS as income).
==
??

There is a co-pay of $25 on doctor visits, $150 on ER visits, $10-$20 on
prescription drugs. I have to pay these co-pays for my household. For
her, the co-pays are paid by public aid or medical card or something. I
got in trouble at work because she was having the pharmacy submit the
bills to public aid instead of the insurance first. Public aid sent a
letter to my work wanting the money, my employer paid it because the
insurance refused to, I ended up having to pay ~$300 in co-pays for her
illegal actions. I'm not sure if Public Aid medical or whatever counts
CS, but most forms I've seen don't require you to submit CS as income.
==
I dunno. Seems like she would have to declare it as income. Too, if she's
on
public aid, how does she manage to get the CS rather than the state? Are
you
not in the US?
==

Lots of states have expanded, or are in the process of expanding, state
Medical Aid Programs to cover more and more children. The doctors, on the
other hand, are opting out of taking new patients who are on these plans.
Welcome to Universal Healthcare.

Because many children are now covered by both private and public medical aid
programs the states are actively pursuing benefit recovery programs by
forcing the private insurance to be the primary insurer and the state
medical program to be the secondary insurer. My states Medical Recovery
Program gets back over $5 million per year in error and fraud overpayments.

What happened to Roger is not unusual.

"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
...
snip
Because many children are now covered by both private and public medical
aid
programs the states are actively pursuing benefit recovery programs by
forcing the private insurance to be the primary insurer and the state
medical program to be the secondary insurer. My states Medical Recovery
Program gets back over $5 million per year in error and fraud
overpayments.

What happened to Roger is not unusual.


And while we're on the topic of Public Aid, here's some real winners I have
gone through with the Illinois Department of Public Aid. Public Aid
requires me to provide health insurance to the children through my employer
if it is available. In court, it was decided that I could provide the
insurance through my wife's family plan, since her insurance cost the same
as mine but she had better insurance. IDPA took it upon themselves to send
my employer a letter stating their requirement for me to provide insurance
for the kids. This was a different employer and family health insurance
only cost the employee ~30/month. I already had them insured through my
wife's employer and my employer, it didn't change a thing but if it had been
done at my previous employer, the whole family would have been stuck with
worse insurance for the same money due to Public Aids BS.

And then there was multiple times that IDPA incorrectly figured my CS and
took me to court claiming I was behind. Their States Attorney figured out
their mistake and I never did need to see the judge. The last time they did
this, they didn't take me to court, the ordered extra deductions from my
check for arrearage. I sent them proof from the recorders office that they
made a mistake and that I was not behind on my CS payments. After almost a
year, they sent my EX a letter that she owed me the money that they ordered
to be taken out of my check. THEY (IDPA) determined that since THEY did not
keep the money, that THEY were not at fault. IDPA gets to make all the
careless mistakes they want, they are given the power to order employers to
withhold arrearage payments, and they aren't even competent enough to figure
CS. And they get to be their own judge and jury declaring themselves not
responsible for the mistakes they make.

Going back to right after my wife left me and got on Public Aid and Child
Support. She got food stamps and Public Aid paid for her housing. She
claimed she was too sick and couldn't handle the kids, so they lived with
me. So, she was on Public Aid, received her CS payments, cash, food stamps,
and housing from them, while all three of the kids lived with me. She went
with her boyfriend to the Missippi river boats to gamble all while getting a
free ride from IDPA. Then IDPA started on me again about CS and I told them
that all three of the girls were living with me. Well, she wanted the girls
back right away after that. But she never got in trouble or had to pay any
of the money back for defrauding IDPA for 5 months. And yes, since I
didn't get the court order changed, I had to pay CS for the 5 months that
the girls lived with me.

My entire CS experience has been pretty much hell and not because of the
money, but because of the constant harrassment by Public Aid and her
constantly wanting more money. Some people think if you just pay your
support you'll be left alone, nothing could be further from the truth.

"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
...

"Gini" wrote in message
news:TnD8i.4066$WE4.677@trndny01...

"Roger_N" wrote

"Gini" wrote

"Roger_N" wrote
I pay for family health insurance to cover my kids and she gets the
co-pays paid by public aid (she doesn't have to claim CS as income).
==
??

There is a co-pay of $25 on doctor visits, $150 on ER visits, $10-$20
on
prescription drugs. I have to pay these co-pays for my household. For
her, the co-pays are paid by public aid or medical card or something.
I
got in trouble at work because she was having the pharmacy submit the
bills to public aid instead of the insurance first. Public aid sent a
letter to my work wanting the money, my employer paid it because the
insurance refused to, I ended up having to pay ~$300 in co-pays for her
illegal actions. I'm not sure if Public Aid medical or whatever counts
CS, but most forms I've seen don't require you to submit CS as income.
==
I dunno. Seems like she would have to declare it as income. Too, if she's
on
public aid, how does she manage to get the CS rather than the state? Are
you
not in the US?
==

Lots of states have expanded, or are in the process of expanding, state
Medical Aid Programs to cover more and more children. The doctors, on the
other hand, are opting out of taking new patients who are on these plans.
Welcome to Universal Healthcare.

Because many children are now covered by both private and public medical
aid
programs the states are actively pursuing benefit recovery programs by
forcing the private insurance to be the primary insurer and the state
medical program to be the secondary insurer. My states Medical Recovery
Program gets back over $5 million per year in error and fraud
overpayments.

What happened to Roger is not unusual.
==
Hmmm...PA now has universal children's health coverage regardless of income.
Apparently that medical care doesn't factor in to CS. OK, I get it.

On Jun 2, 2:26?pm, "Bob Whiteside" wrote:
"Relayer" wrote in message

ups.com...





On Jun 2, 12:32?pm, "Bob Whiteside" wrote:
"Roger_N" wrote in message

...

My child support has been raised as my income has raised, my ex now
gets
over 310% more than she did when she left me. She's always calling me
or
my
mother wanting more money for school supplies, clothes, car repair,
car
insurance, etc.. She gets 32% of my income tax free and last year
claimed
all 3 daughters as her dependants (after verbaly stating in court that
I
could claim one). She bought herself a sport car and my daughters
have to
work while in high school so they can pay their own way. And now
she's
calling me again wanting money to get my daughters car fixed. My
employer
has cut wages and benefits. I spent 3 months in the Hospital and she
still
got all her child support. I have diabetes and the co-pays on doctor
visits, insulin, syringes, test strips, needles, etc. have me tight on
money. I pay for family health insurance to cover my kids and she
gets
the
co-pays paid by public aid (she doesn't have to claim CS as income).
Anyway
I'm tired of it, I wrote her a letter telling her if she needed money
to
work for it like I have to and stop trying to mooch it off of others.
I
invited her to take me back to court if she wants more money but told
her
I
would ask the judge to consider the situation, and the CS might even
be
lowered.

You are not the first NCP father to hear this kind of "poor me" story
from a
CP. I would make sure your mother, your children, and your ex get the
following message from you:

CS is based on what intact families report as their actual spending on
children expenditures. Therefore, CS awards assume one parent has the
children 100% of the time. Remind her she has an obligation to support
the
children too. When you add your share and her share together there is
$xxx
per month to support the children. It's up to her to budget the
available
money correctly.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

That is not true. Some states (mine for example) have absolutely NO
provision or requirement that a CP has ANY kind of obligation to
support the children. None. So it depends on his state.

There are legal differences between "duty of support for minor children" and
how CS is calculated. My guess is your state will have a duty of support
law.

One of the flaws in the percentage of income state CS calculation
methodology is that method only considers the obligor's income. The
calculation methodology gives the impression CP's are not required to
support their children. But that does not change the CP's obligation to
provide their share of the duty of support.

The 1984-87 National Child Support Guidelines Project advisory panel did not
approve the percentage of obligor CS methodology because it does not state a
specific CS obligation amount for the CP. Several states had legal
challenges to the percent of income method and the court's ruled the states
can use a percentage to calculate a CS award, but the award must be stated
in fixed dollars, not a percent of income that caused the awards to
fluctuate based on income from commissions, pay increases, and other reasons
for income variables.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

A duty of support is not a court support order. There is no provision,
penalty or punishment for a CP's failure to provide any kind of
support. None. EVERYONE has a "duty" to support their kids. And that
is where it ends. There is no such thing as 50/50 custody, only CP or
NCP. A CP's income is in no way used to determine CS.

"Gini" wrote in message
news:i4F8i.640$NZ4.558@trndny04...

"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
...

"Gini" wrote in message
news:TnD8i.4066$WE4.677@trndny01...

"Roger_N" wrote

"Gini" wrote

"Roger_N" wrote
I pay for family health insurance to cover my kids and she gets the
co-pays paid by public aid (she doesn't have to claim CS as
income).
==
??

There is a co-pay of $25 on doctor visits, $150 on ER visits, $10-$20
on
prescription drugs. I have to pay these co-pays for my household.
For
her, the co-pays are paid by public aid or medical card or something.
I
got in trouble at work because she was having the pharmacy submit the
bills to public aid instead of the insurance first. Public aid sent
a
letter to my work wanting the money, my employer paid it because the
insurance refused to, I ended up having to pay ~$300 in co-pays for
her
illegal actions. I'm not sure if Public Aid medical or whatever
counts
CS, but most forms I've seen don't require you to submit CS as
income.
==
I dunno. Seems like she would have to declare it as income. Too, if
she's
on
public aid, how does she manage to get the CS rather than the state?
Are
you
not in the US?
==

Lots of states have expanded, or are in the process of expanding, state
Medical Aid Programs to cover more and more children. The doctors, on
the
other hand, are opting out of taking new patients who are on these
plans.
Welcome to Universal Healthcare.

Because many children are now covered by both private and public medical
aid
programs the states are actively pursuing benefit recovery programs by
forcing the private insurance to be the primary insurer and the state
medical program to be the secondary insurer. My states Medical Recovery
Program gets back over $5 million per year in error and fraud
overpayments.

What happened to Roger is not unusual.
==
Hmmm...PA now has universal children's health coverage regardless of
income.
Apparently that medical care doesn't factor in to CS. OK, I get it.

Child support and medical support are two separate categories of IV-D
services. Although they are handled simultaneously in CS modification
proceedings, they are technically separate.

An issue I have never heard discussed in the states' plans to expand state
run healthcare programs for children is fundamental to parenting decisions.
When a person is placed on the state healthcare system they are required to
assign their medical support rights over to the state. That means CP's are
required to cooperate with the state for obtaining medical support. That
includes assisting the state in identifying potentially liable medical
resources other than the state medical program.

I think cases like Roger's are just the start of states requiring all
children to be on state healthcare programs plus be covered by any private
insurance that might be available. The states are using the "for the
children" mantra for healthcare to dictate what healthcare coverage must be
carried for all children.

On Jun 3, 5:49?pm, "Bob Whiteside" wrote:
"Gini" wrote in message

news:i4F8i.640$NZ4.558@trndny04...







"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
...

"Gini" wrote in message
news:TnD8i.4066$WE4.677@trndny01...

"Roger_N" wrote

"Gini" wrote

"Roger_N" wrote
I pay for family health insurance to cover my kids and she gets the
co-pays paid by public aid (she doesn't have to claim CS as
income).
==
??

There is a co-pay of $25 on doctor visits, $150 on ER visits, $10-$20
on
prescription drugs. I have to pay these co-pays for my household.
For
her, the co-pays are paid by public aid or medical card or something.
I
got in trouble at work because she was having the pharmacy submit the
bills to public aid instead of the insurance first. Public aid sent
a
letter to my work wanting the money, my employer paid it because the
insurance refused to, I ended up having to pay ~$300 in co-pays for
her
illegal actions. I'm not sure if Public Aid medical or whatever
counts
CS, but most forms I've seen don't require you to submit CS as
income.
==
I dunno. Seems like she would have to declare it as income. Too, if
she's
on
public aid, how does she manage to get the CS rather than the state?
Are
you
not in the US?
==

Lots of states have expanded, or are in the process of expanding, state
Medical Aid Programs to cover more and more children. The doctors, on
the
other hand, are opting out of taking new patients who are on these
plans.
Welcome to Universal Healthcare.

Because many children are now covered by both private and public medical
aid
programs the states are actively pursuing benefit recovery programs by
forcing the private insurance to be the primary insurer and the state
medical program to be the secondary insurer. My states Medical Recovery
Program gets back over $5 million per year in error and fraud
overpayments.

What happened to Roger is not unusual.
==
Hmmm...PA now has universal children's health coverage regardless of
income.
Apparently that medical care doesn't factor in to CS. OK, I get it.

Child support and medical support are two separate categories of IV-D
services. Although they are handled simultaneously in CS modification
proceedings, they are technically separate.

An issue I have never heard discussed in the states' plans to expand state
run healthcare programs for children is fundamental to parenting decisions.
When a person is placed on the state healthcare system they are required to
assign their medical support rights over to the state. That means CP's are
required to cooperate with the state for obtaining medical support. That
includes assisting the state in identifying potentially liable medical
resources other than the state medical program.

I think cases like Roger's are just the start of states requiring all
children to be on state healthcare programs plus be covered by any private
insurance that might be available. The states are using the "for the
children" mantra for healthcare to dictate what healthcare coverage must be
carried for all children.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

My state has a healthcare program for kids. Its actually pretty good.

"Relayer" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Jun 2, 2:26?pm, "Bob Whiteside" wrote:
"Relayer" wrote in message

ups.com...





On Jun 2, 12:32?pm, "Bob Whiteside" wrote:
"Roger_N" wrote in message

...

My child support has been raised as my income has raised, my ex now
gets
over 310% more than she did when she left me. She's always calling
me
or
my
mother wanting more money for school supplies, clothes, car repair,
car
insurance, etc.. She gets 32% of my income tax free and last year
claimed
all 3 daughters as her dependants (after verbaly stating in court
that
I
could claim one). She bought herself a sport car and my daughters
have to
work while in high school so they can pay their own way. And now
she's
calling me again wanting money to get my daughters car fixed. My
employer
has cut wages and benefits. I spent 3 months in the Hospital and
she
still
got all her child support. I have diabetes and the co-pays on
doctor
visits, insulin, syringes, test strips, needles, etc. have me tight
on
money. I pay for family health insurance to cover my kids and she
gets
the
co-pays paid by public aid (she doesn't have to claim CS as
income).
Anyway
I'm tired of it, I wrote her a letter telling her if she needed
money
to
work for it like I have to and stop trying to mooch it off of
others.
I
invited her to take me back to court if she wants more money but
told
her
I
would ask the judge to consider the situation, and the CS might
even
be
lowered.

You are not the first NCP father to hear this kind of "poor me" story
from a
CP. I would make sure your mother, your children, and your ex get
the
following message from you:

CS is based on what intact families report as their actual spending
on
children expenditures. Therefore, CS awards assume one parent has
the
children 100% of the time. Remind her she has an obligation to
support
the
children too. When you add your share and her share together there
is
$xxx
per month to support the children. It's up to her to budget the
available
money correctly.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

That is not true. Some states (mine for example) have absolutely NO
provision or requirement that a CP has ANY kind of obligation to
support the children. None. So it depends on his state.

There are legal differences between "duty of support for minor children"
and
how CS is calculated. My guess is your state will have a duty of support
law.

One of the flaws in the percentage of income state CS calculation
methodology is that method only considers the obligor's income. The
calculation methodology gives the impression CP's are not required to
support their children. But that does not change the CP's obligation to
provide their share of the duty of support.

The 1984-87 National Child Support Guidelines Project advisory panel did
not
approve the percentage of obligor CS methodology because it does not
state a
specific CS obligation amount for the CP. Several states had legal
challenges to the percent of income method and the court's ruled the
states
can use a percentage to calculate a CS award, but the award must be
stated
in fixed dollars, not a percent of income that caused the awards to
fluctuate based on income from commissions, pay increases, and other
reasons
for income variables.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

A duty of support is not a court support order. There is no provision,
penalty or punishment for a CP's failure to provide any kind of
support. None. EVERYONE has a "duty" to support their kids. And that
is where it ends. There is no such thing as 50/50 custody, only CP or
NCP. A CP's income is in no way used to determine CS.

In some states it is. It just depends on what method each state uses.

"Relayer" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Jun 3, 5:49?pm, "Bob Whiteside" wrote:
"Gini" wrote in message

news:i4F8i.640$NZ4.558@trndny04...







"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
...

"Gini" wrote in message
news:TnD8i.4066$WE4.677@trndny01...

"Roger_N" wrote

"Gini" wrote

"Roger_N" wrote
I pay for family health insurance to cover my kids and she gets
the
co-pays paid by public aid (she doesn't have to claim CS as
income).
==
??

There is a co-pay of $25 on doctor visits, $150 on ER visits,
$10-$20
on
prescription drugs. I have to pay these co-pays for my
household.
For
her, the co-pays are paid by public aid or medical card or
something.
I
got in trouble at work because she was having the pharmacy submit
the
bills to public aid instead of the insurance first. Public aid
sent
a
letter to my work wanting the money, my employer paid it because
the
insurance refused to, I ended up having to pay ~$300 in co-pays
for
her
illegal actions. I'm not sure if Public Aid medical or whatever
counts
CS, but most forms I've seen don't require you to submit CS as
income.
==
I dunno. Seems like she would have to declare it as income. Too, if
she's
on
public aid, how does she manage to get the CS rather than the
state?
Are
you
not in the US?
==

Lots of states have expanded, or are in the process of expanding,
state
Medical Aid Programs to cover more and more children. The doctors,
on
the
other hand, are opting out of taking new patients who are on these
plans.
Welcome to Universal Healthcare.

Because many children are now covered by both private and public
medical
aid
programs the states are actively pursuing benefit recovery programs
by
forcing the private insurance to be the primary insurer and the
state
medical program to be the secondary insurer. My states Medical
Recovery
Program gets back over $5 million per year in error and fraud
overpayments.

What happened to Roger is not unusual.
==
Hmmm...PA now has universal children's health coverage regardless of
income.
Apparently that medical care doesn't factor in to CS. OK, I get it.

Child support and medical support are two separate categories of IV-D
services. Although they are handled simultaneously in CS modification
proceedings, they are technically separate.

An issue I have never heard discussed in the states' plans to expand
state
run healthcare programs for children is fundamental to parenting
decisions.
When a person is placed on the state healthcare system they are required
to
assign their medical support rights over to the state. That means CP's
are
required to cooperate with the state for obtaining medical support.
That
includes assisting the state in identifying potentially liable medical
resources other than the state medical program.

I think cases like Roger's are just the start of states requiring all
children to be on state healthcare programs plus be covered by any
private
insurance that might be available. The states are using the "for the
children" mantra for healthcare to dictate what healthcare coverage must
be
carried for all children.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

My state has a healthcare program for kids. Its actually pretty good.

How do they pay for it?

My state can't get the necessary 3/5 super majority to pass the tax increase
to fund the children's healthcare program in the legislature, so they are
referring it to the voters as a Constitutional amendment requiring a simple
majority to pass.

Guess where the money will come from? An 84.5 cent increase in cigarette
taxes per pack. I don't smoke, but if I did I'd buy my cigarettes from the
Indian reservation folks just to avoid paying for this monster tax.

Why not just charge the people who use the healthcare program a few bucks
per week to fund the health coverage instead of asking a bunch of smokers to
pay the bill? They could have used the money from the tobacco settlement to
fund this plan, but they used that money to build a light rail system that
gets very low ridership and an even lower number of paying riders.

And don't get me started on our new aerial tram which cost 4 times the
original cost estimate. The politicians actually believe people will come
to my area and pay $4 just to see the view from the tram. You can drive to
the top of the hill to see the same view for free!