[OT] What Is "Terrorism?"

Months ago on this thread, I argued that the internment of detainees at
Guantanamo Bay ("Camp X-Ray") was wrong because they were denied due
process and an unknown number of them were almost certainly not terrorists
or Taliban - simply there because they had the same name as someone else
etc.

Now, on PBS's Frontline, we meet Abdurahman Khadr. He is in his early
twenties and grew up in Pakistan in an al-Qaeda family alongside the bin
Laden's and their children. His father wanted to raise him to become a
'martyr': "Three times my father tried to get me to be a suicide bomber...
I don't believe in blowing myself up, killing innocent people. I just
don't believe in that." He said that when the 911 attacks happened
everyone around him was happy but that he thought it was a terrible thing
and wondered what thoughts were passing through the minds of the people
who jumped to their deaths from the burning towers. He described himself
as "pro-America, pro-Canada."

The Frontline episode details how he came to work as a paid employee
for the CIA, spying on al-Qaeda for the Americans. In one mission, he was
detained at Guantanamo Bay for several months under deep cover to learn
information from other detainees by posing as one of them.

FRONTLINE: "What's your impression of Guantanamo? Do a lot of people
belong there? What's your impression of the inmates?"

KHADR: "They always asked me this question. I told them in 100 percent
there is 80 percent of people that went to Afghanistan, like people that
can't do anything. They've had enough. If you put them back in their
countries they won't do anything. That's in 80 percent.

"Among those 80 percent there is almost 60 in those 80, 60 that are
people that haven't done anything. People that worked on a project in
Pakistan, an old man that his son brought him, you know, just to sell him
for $5,000. Drug dealers, people that didn't have anything to do with
al-Qaeda were put there for no reason but because someone brought them
there or someone thought of getting thousands for them, whoever captured
them [claimed] that they were al Qaeda.

"The rest, the 20 percent from the whole 100 percent, there's 10
percent of them that should be kept there and 10 percent of them if they
go out and they catch up with al Qaeda again they might go back to being
al Qaeda. But there's only like 10 percent of the people that are really
dangerous, that should be there and the rest are people that don't have
anything to do with it... don't even understand what they're doing here."

FRONTLINE: "Just explain the bounty hunting, how people ended up there.
That they paid a bounty."

KHADR: "At the very beginning, after Americans took over Afghanistan,
they needed to show the American public that you know, we have got people.
So there was normal Afghans would catch normal Arabs, normal small Arabs,
and go the the American base and tell them, you know what, we have a big
commander. The American would say yes okay and they would just buy him."

FRONTLINE: "If the Americans were paying large bounties, a large amount
of money, they would have ended up with a lot of innocent people there,
don't you think?"

KHADR: "Yes, a lot of innocent people."


The Guantanamo Bay gulag is a blight on America. Every American
citizen, myself included, bears the taint of this shame.

The USA preaches about "human rights" to the rest of the world while
locking up hundreds of people incommunicado without habeus corpus rights,
without access to visitors or lawyers, without trial, in many cases based
on no more than an unverified accusation which the accuser got paid cash
for making. And now a former CIA operative tells us that most of the
detainees there aren't al Qaeda members or Taliban at all and should never
have been detained in the first place. This is a monstrous injustice
which needs to end immediately.

Every detainee should receive a prompt review hearing with access to
counsel in which the US government must either show cause for why the
individual is being detained, based on evidence admissible in a normal US
court of law, or else release the detainee forthwith. Detainees found to
have been held without good cause should receive an apology,
transportation back to their country of origin, and a generous cash
compensation from the American people for their ordeal of wrongful
imprisonment without due process under deplorable conditions at our hands.

Chris

"Chris" wrote in message
...

Chris, you are boring with your self congratulatory hatred of all things
American.

Please get lost.

Months ago on this thread, I argued that the internment of detainees at
Guantanamo Bay ("Camp X-Ray") was wrong because they were denied due
process and an unknown number of them were almost certainly not terrorists
or Taliban - simply there because they had the same name as someone else
etc.

Now, on PBS's Frontline, we meet Abdurahman Khadr. He is in his early
twenties and grew up in Pakistan in an al-Qaeda family alongside the bin
Laden's and their children. His father wanted to raise him to become a
'martyr': "Three times my father tried to get me to be a suicide bomber...
I don't believe in blowing myself up, killing innocent people. I just
don't believe in that." He said that when the 911 attacks happened
everyone around him was happy but that he thought it was a terrible thing
and wondered what thoughts were passing through the minds of the people
who jumped to their deaths from the burning towers. He described himself
as "pro-America, pro-Canada."

The Frontline episode details how he came to work as a paid employee
for the CIA, spying on al-Qaeda for the Americans. In one mission, he was
detained at Guantanamo Bay for several months under deep cover to learn
information from other detainees by posing as one of them.

FRONTLINE: "What's your impression of Guantanamo? Do a lot of people
belong there? What's your impression of the inmates?"

KHADR: "They always asked me this question. I told them in 100 percent
there is 80 percent of people that went to Afghanistan, like people that
can't do anything. They've had enough. If you put them back in their
countries they won't do anything. That's in 80 percent.

"Among those 80 percent there is almost 60 in those 80, 60 that are
people that haven't done anything. People that worked on a project in
Pakistan, an old man that his son brought him, you know, just to sell him
for $5,000. Drug dealers, people that didn't have anything to do with
al-Qaeda were put there for no reason but because someone brought them
there or someone thought of getting thousands for them, whoever captured
them [claimed] that they were al Qaeda.

"The rest, the 20 percent from the whole 100 percent, there's 10
percent of them that should be kept there and 10 percent of them if they
go out and they catch up with al Qaeda again they might go back to being
al Qaeda. But there's only like 10 percent of the people that are really
dangerous, that should be there and the rest are people that don't have
anything to do with it... don't even understand what they're doing here."

FRONTLINE: "Just explain the bounty hunting, how people ended up there.
That they paid a bounty."

KHADR: "At the very beginning, after Americans took over Afghanistan,
they needed to show the American public that you know, we have got people.
So there was normal Afghans would catch normal Arabs, normal small Arabs,
and go the the American base and tell them, you know what, we have a big
commander. The American would say yes okay and they would just buy him."

FRONTLINE: "If the Americans were paying large bounties, a large amount
of money, they would have ended up with a lot of innocent people there,
don't you think?"

KHADR: "Yes, a lot of innocent people."


The Guantanamo Bay gulag is a blight on America. Every American
citizen, myself included, bears the taint of this shame.

The USA preaches about "human rights" to the rest of the world while
locking up hundreds of people incommunicado without habeus corpus rights,
without access to visitors or lawyers, without trial, in many cases based
on no more than an unverified accusation which the accuser got paid cash
for making. And now a former CIA operative tells us that most of the
detainees there aren't al Qaeda members or Taliban at all and should never
have been detained in the first place. This is a monstrous injustice
which needs to end immediately.

Every detainee should receive a prompt review hearing with access to
counsel in which the US government must either show cause for why the
individual is being detained, based on evidence admissible in a normal US
court of law, or else release the detainee forthwith. Detainees found to
have been held without good cause should receive an apology,
transportation back to their country of origin, and a generous cash
compensation from the American people for their ordeal of wrongful
imprisonment without due process under deplorable conditions at our hands.

Chris

Frequently Asked Questions

13. Is "terrorism" an appropriate topic for a.p.s?

Of course, not. Those who continued to post on the topic of terrorism
are spamming the group. They are showing that they have no respect for
the participants of a.p.s!

Doan

On Fri, 14 May 2004 00:20:39 -0700, "jake"
wrote:


"Doan" wrote in message
...
Frequently Asked Questions

13. Is "terrorism" an appropriate topic for a.p.s?

Of course, not. Those who continued to post on the topic of
terrorism
are spamming the group. They are showing that they have no respect
for
the participants of a.p.s!

Actually any issue on violent human behavior, and both war and
spanking are violent by default, would make this an appropriate topic
for aps. It's just that droany and others like him hate facing the
clearly established correlation of childhood violent experiences with
adult violent acting out.

that might be true were the thraed not CLEARLY labelled off-topic...

You are correct of course. I see it relevant for one of the ngs,
a.g.a, though the other's surely have some connection to this issue.

as it is this seems a pathetic lame attempt to quell a discussion
taking
place all over the world and of interest
to all..

The Droananator is infamous for diversions and dodges.

Nearly everything he posts these days is from the Weasel Den he dove
into when he was challenged with a question on spanking safety limits.

Don't be surprized or take notice. It's just his childishness. He
takes nothing seriously. It's all fodder for his damaged ego.


just what part of off-topic do you fail to understand?

This particular OT subject is well worth discussing here or in any ng.
"OT" allows for easy filtering, and he knows it of course.

The issue actually is of interest to this particular ng, aps, as it is
related to violence in human behavior. The correlation to spanking is
obvious. Please go on.

Best wishes,

Kane