If spanking ended?

What would happen if all the CP of children stopped, forever.

Would violent crime go down, or up?

Just thought I'd ask.

Kane

You might want to look at Sweden! ;-)

Doan

On 21 May 2004, Kane wrote:

What would happen if all the CP of children stopped, forever.

Would violent crime go down, or up?

Just thought I'd ask.

Kane

On Fri, 21 May 2004 20:11:39 -0700, Doan wrote:


You might want to look at Sweden! ;-)

How delightful we are invited to visit this issue again, and afforded
the opportunity to prove you wrong, yet again. Thank you sincerely.

I hope those who have been here before will stay tuned, and any new
folks wishing to get up to date will enjoy the spectacle.

I have. Not a troop sent to Irag. And the only claim to rising crime
rates is a competitive neighbor's claim, by an obviously ambitious and
biased journalist.

But read on.

http://www.nospank.net/durrant2.htm

You really believe, or want others to, for instance, that child abuse
was reported with equal attention and gathering of date pre spanking
ban as after, don't you? R R R R...you're a card.

Wanna guess what country the following statements apply to by it's own
reportage?

"There was also a rise in juvenile delinquency, which has gone up
almost 50 percent in the past decade. "

"Although most crimes declined over the past 10 years, molestation
cases increased from 21 per 100,000 in 1986 to 30 per 100,000 last
year. "

Ask me and I'll give you the country.

Then there's this:

http://www.angelfire.com/rnb/y/homicide.htm#murd

The World Homicide rate...notice Swedens' ranking per 100,000, and our
happy spanking country's rate:

50.14 South Africa
21.40 Russia (1999)
10.00 Lithuania
_9.94 Estonia
_6.22 Latvia
_5.64 U.S.A.
_2.94 Spain
_2.86 Finland
_2.84 Northern Ireland
_2.72 Czech Republic
_2.65 Slovakia
_2.58 New Zealand
_2.50 Romania
_2.31 Turkey (1999)
_2.23 Poland
_2.11 Scotland
_2.04 Hungary
_1.97 Sweden

By the way, if I recall correctly the countries homicide ranking is
inverse to it's spanking laws. The lower rate is enjoyed by those that
spank the least or not at all.

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs2/hosb502.pdf

Drug Trafficking (Table 1.6)
16. Over the period 1996 - 2000, there was a fall
of 5% in the EU for drug trafficking offences
with the highest falls in Sweden (44%),

and a downward trend in homicides

Sweden (1996-2000) -12% (1999-2000) -7%

Notice that 7% drop in one year. I guess some of the crop that were
spanked as children are aging out of the violent age ranges, say in
the 20's and the children that were NOT spanked are not in that age
range.....

And look at this outrageous stability in prison population...hardly a
country in the world can match it:

10 years, from 1990 to 2000...can you believe it...just when our
unspanked kiddies are coming into the population as older teens and
young adults...the prison population highpoint in the bell curve....

Sweden 5,300 5,203 5,249 5,697 6,210 6,285 5,768 5,221 5,290 5,484
5,678

Wanna speculate with me, and enjoy the great rewards of outlawing CP?

Go ahead, I won't rub it in....R R R R R...opps...sorry...me bad.

Doan


Yer such a fool, Dronanation. I just love it when you do this.

You would pick Sweden...oh, and I'll break the suspense....the country
that I quoted info about youth crime?......Singapore, of course. Like
even CANEING deters. R R R ...

The major reason for low crime rates in Singapore isn't spanking. It's
culture, dummy. And you should know something about that.

Kane


On 21 May 2004, Kane wrote:

What would happen if all the CP of children stopped, forever.

Would violent crime go down, or up?

Just thought I'd ask.

Kane

"Kane" wrote in message
om...
What would happen if all the CP of children stopped, forever.

Would violent crime go down, or up?

Just thought I'd ask.

When I was a teen I got into some quite nasty fights for which
my Dad beat me very soundly indeed.
After the first beating I was not deterred from subsequent
acts of violence on my part. I continued to pick fights with people,
and my Dad continued to thrash me.

I considered the beatings a necessary evil of the lifestyle I led at
the time, rather than a deterrent or corrective measure.

So in answer to the question, I think that it would have no effect
whatsoever on violent crime.

a123sdg321

On Sat, 22 May 2004, Bingo Bob wrote:


"Kane" wrote in message
om...
What would happen if all the CP of children stopped, forever.

Would violent crime go down, or up?

Just thought I'd ask.

When I was a teen I got into some quite nasty fights for which
my Dad beat me very soundly indeed.
After the first beating I was not deterred from subsequent
acts of violence on my part. I continued to pick fights with people,
and my Dad continued to thrash me.

I considered the beatings a necessary evil of the lifestyle I led at
the time, rather than a deterrent or corrective measure.

So in answer to the question, I think that it would have no effect
whatsoever on violent crime.


And you would be right. Sweden banned spanking in 1979 and look what
happenned:

"Even Sweden, once the epitome of cosmopolitan socialist prosperity, now
has a crime victimization rate 20 percent higher than the United States."

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Conten...1/266umtwb.asp

Doan

On Sat, 22 May 2004 16:23:22 +0000 (UTC), "Bingo Bob"
wrote:


"Kane" wrote in message
. com...
What would happen if all the CP of children stopped, forever.

Would violent crime go down, or up?

Just thought I'd ask.

When I was a teen I got into some quite nasty fights for which
my Dad beat me very soundly indeed.
After the first beating I was not deterred from subsequent
acts of violence on my part. I continued to pick fights with people,
and my Dad continued to thrash me.

I considered the beatings a necessary evil of the lifestyle I led at
the time, rather than a deterrent or corrective measure.

So in answer to the question, I think that it would have no effect
whatsoever on violent crime.

I take it then that CP for discipline was a standard in your family.

Could it be that the fights you got in had their roots in your beliefs
shaped by being part of violent exchanges in your family in your
earlier growing years?

Thanks, Kane

Doan wrote in message ...
a123sdg321

On Sat, 22 May 2004, Bingo Bob wrote:


"Kane" wrote in message
om...
What would happen if all the CP of children stopped, forever.

Would violent crime go down, or up?

Just thought I'd ask.

When I was a teen I got into some quite nasty fights for which
my Dad beat me very soundly indeed.
After the first beating I was not deterred from subsequent
acts of violence on my part. I continued to pick fights with people,
and my Dad continued to thrash me.

I considered the beatings a necessary evil of the lifestyle I led at
the time, rather than a deterrent or corrective measure.

So in answer to the question, I think that it would have no effect
whatsoever on violent crime.


And you would be right. Sweden banned spanking in 1979 and look what
happenned:

"Even Sweden, once the epitome of cosmopolitan socialist prosperity, now
has a crime victimization rate 20 percent higher than the United States."

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Conten...1/266umtwb.asp

This isn't research. It's an opinion piece...and the cause could be as
much socialism as anything else. And it "crime victimization" not
*violent* crime.

Prosparity has cause whole new classes of crime to emerge in Europe.
For instance, bicycle crime has stayed about constant as I recall, but
motor vehicle crime is up.

Well, the presence of bicycles is a constant, but what do you spose is
increasing in numbers? Yep, you got it...the private ownership of
motor vehicles making it more likely they are around to be stolen or
broken into.

I've posted the figures on *violent* crime and Sweden is NOT on a par
with the US, even though we have gone to locking up so many and taking
them out of the count we should now start looking like the safest
place on the planet.....that doesn't say the violent ones aren't
waiting to get out of prison....

And many countries that have no ban on spanking have much higher rates
of violent crime than Sweden.

Doan

My best bet is that Sweden has a ways to go to what I claim, and have
proven to myself and others, works. ...NON punative parenting, not
just NON CP.

That's when the crime numbers will drop considerably. About 10 years
after major incursions of non punishment parenting.

I'm watching the attachment parenting people and their children...just
as I watched, 20 and more years ago, a generation of parents begin to
stop CP and many stopped punishment altogether and I have the pleasure
of seeing the young men and women now adults that benefited.

Just went to a wedding yesterday. A mixed race couple, caucasion and
asian. I know both families. Neither were into punishment. The son is
a culinary school grad and apparently doing very well, the young women
is well no her way professionally.

Neither have any criminal activities in their past...just busy folks
doing school and work. I daresay they are the beginning of a
generation that will go on to more generations that do not punish.
Their parents broke the mold.

To bad for you, Droaner.

Kane

If you hadn't been beaten by your father, which you admnit was not
deterrent or corrective measure, do you think your life would have been
different?

You talk about how you were parented as a teenager. Were you spanked
when you were younger?

LaVonne

Bingo Bob wrote:

"Kane" wrote in message
om...

What would happen if all the CP of children stopped, forever.

Would violent crime go down, or up?

Just thought I'd ask.


When I was a teen I got into some quite nasty fights for which
my Dad beat me very soundly indeed.
After the first beating I was not deterred from subsequent
acts of violence on my part. I continued to pick fights with people,
and my Dad continued to thrash me.

I considered the beatings a necessary evil of the lifestyle I led at
the time, rather than a deterrent or corrective measure.

So in answer to the question, I think that it would have no effect
whatsoever on violent crime.