Toddler keeps nursing at night - cries with no control if denied nursing

My son keeps nursing all night. he just turned 2.
He basically wants to keep sucking to sleep.

After he is snoring in sleep, i try to pull it out, he immediately
wakes up and starts crying.

if i dont give him, he screams on loud voice and acts like hysteric. he
is not able to control his anger and cries very hard. i cannot stand
seeing him cry like that so i just end up nursing. he just want to keep
sucking for soothing.

I read about letting children cry it out, but seeing the degree in
which he gets mad, i am afraid to try it. My husband tries to lift him,
but my son hits him and bangs his head and tries to get away from his
hands screaming.
at this point, there is no point in scolding or spanking him, because
he seems to have lost control and not listening any more.


can you please help in how I should tackle this situation.
It was much better a few months ago, when he was waking up 2-3 times
for nursing and then going back to sleep. But past few months have been
extremely difficult.

I have not slept well in so many months now. and it is affecting me a
lot now.

Hi -

You need to decide what you want as an end result, and then be the
parent-in-charge and DO it. An easy statement, made complicated by the
fact that your child is TWO and learning to separate from you, test
boundaries and start to control his world.

I'd probably talk to your child in the DAYtime and explain that on a
certain day, which you'll greet with a great, positive ceremony, he'll
stop nursing at night. Talk about the wonderful things that will happen
on this day, give him a present or something, take him for a treat, tire
him out. And then at bedtime remind him that he no longer nurses at
night. (Let him have a LONG nurse in the evening, then let him say
goodnight to the milk.)

Yes, he'll cry. He'll have a tantrum. But you or your husband
(whichever you think will work better) can be there to pat him, sooth
him, and talk to him. For hours, if necessary.

If you give in to his tantrum then you'll be teaching him that tantrums
work. If, on the other hand, you're there with him, you sympathise with
him, you do your best to distract him, then eventually he'll fall
asleep.

The tantrums may last a couple of nights. But he'll stop needing to
nurse to sleep. And YOU'll finally get some of the rest you so badly
need.

I wouldn't suggest something so difficult, except that it sounds as
though it's very bad for YOU, and it's probably bad for HIM (teeth,
etc.) to stay latched all night.

Other people will probably have other suggestions. We didn't have to go
through this for nursing, but we DID for other issues. Two-year olds
can be VERY stubborn; it's part of learning to control their world! But
you've got to be firm, one of the hardest lessons of parenting.

Good luck!
--Beth Kevles

http://web.mit.edu/kevles/www/nomilk.html -- a page for the milk-allergic
Disclaimer: Nothing in this message should be construed as medical
advice. Please consult with your own medical practicioner.

NOTE: No email is read at my MIT address. Use the AOL one if you would
like me to reply.

I agree with the other poster. You need to take care of yourself and get
some sleep. What do you want the end result to be ? I was a "guilty"
parent, feeling that I should be there when my child needed me, but as I
let go of the guilt and made them understand that crying and tantrums didn't
work, I have a different household now. I am now the one in charge..not the
kids, and it's much more peaceful. We have our battles, but they know when
mommy has put her foot down, and it's over.

That said, you have to put your foot down...make a plan and stick to it.
Are you going to let him cry it out... for how long ?? all night until he
falls asleep ?? what works for you?? What are you comfortable trying??.
I would not let him cry for 4 hours,.... that is to hard on both of you,
and your child. He seems to want a security blanket, could you take him to
the store and let him pick out something he can sleep with, and then when he
is done nursing give that to him to hold. The sucking instinct is natural
in children, and something he will overcome in time, but until then you need
an action plan. Some 4 yrs olds still suck their thumbs... at least you take
your breast away.

Scolding or spanking him is not a good idea, glad you have not done that.
Could you tell him that nursing is over and he can cuddle with mommy but no
more sucking, he can have a teddy bear or other stuffed toy or he can have a
blanket, but no more sucking on you. He is out of control angry because
you have made him that way by lettin ghim suck after crying. You have to
stop that... and deal with it...after a week of telling him no sucking he
will understand that no amount of crying will get him that back..... just be
sure you don't give in after 20 minutes the first night..or it will be give
in after 30 minutes the next night, after 40 -60 minutes the next..and he
will see this pattern. Don't give in at all if you are going to do
this...but first find something you can give him to comfort him.

Good luck
Karen


"tired_mom" wrote in message
ups.com...
My son keeps nursing all night. he just turned 2.
He basically wants to keep sucking to sleep.

After he is snoring in sleep, i try to pull it out, he immediately
wakes up and starts crying.

if i dont give him, he screams on loud voice and acts like hysteric. he
is not able to control his anger and cries very hard. i cannot stand
seeing him cry like that so i just end up nursing. he just want to keep
sucking for soothing.

I read about letting children cry it out, but seeing the degree in
which he gets mad, i am afraid to try it. My husband tries to lift him,
but my son hits him and bangs his head and tries to get away from his
hands screaming.
at this point, there is no point in scolding or spanking him, because
he seems to have lost control and not listening any more.


can you please help in how I should tackle this situation.
It was much better a few months ago, when he was waking up 2-3 times
for nursing and then going back to sleep. But past few months have been
extremely difficult.

I have not slept well in so many months now. and it is affecting me a
lot now.

Hello Beth,
Thanks very much for the advice. I am taking off tomorrow from work to
try this out. also i am so tired, just need some rest.
yes during day time, he understands everything we say and is very
cooperative. he is very calm compared to kids of his age. only in the
night, he looses control of himself and i feel it is no longer his own
self. he is constanly screaming, so he is not even able to listen to
what we are saying.
he probably is so addicted to nursing, he is not able to sleep without
it. i guess it is like any other addiction.

yes, you are right that we have been teaching him that tantrums work,
but there was no other go. with the way in which he cries, falls on the
bed flat and crying without even taking a breath,i am just so helpless.

he cries and then keep screaming without breathing. then my husband
hits his back so he resumes breathing. is this what is called tantrum.
do other kids do this or is this very extreme?

Thank you for your time.

Beth Kevles wrote:
Hi -

You need to decide what you want as an end result, and then be the
parent-in-charge and DO it. An easy statement, made complicated by
the
fact that your child is TWO and learning to separate from you, test
boundaries and start to control his world.

I'd probably talk to your child in the DAYtime and explain that on a
certain day, which you'll greet with a great, positive ceremony,
he'll
stop nursing at night. Talk about the wonderful things that will
happen
on this day, give him a present or something, take him for a treat,
tire
him out. And then at bedtime remind him that he no longer nurses at
night. (Let him have a LONG nurse in the evening, then let him say
goodnight to the milk.)

Yes, he'll cry. He'll have a tantrum. But you or your husband
(whichever you think will work better) can be there to pat him, sooth
him, and talk to him. For hours, if necessary.

If you give in to his tantrum then you'll be teaching him that
tantrums
work. If, on the other hand, you're there with him, you sympathise
with
him, you do your best to distract him, then eventually he'll fall
asleep.

The tantrums may last a couple of nights. But he'll stop needing to
nurse to sleep. And YOU'll finally get some of the rest you so badly
need.

I wouldn't suggest something so difficult, except that it sounds as
though it's very bad for YOU, and it's probably bad for HIM (teeth,
etc.) to stay latched all night.

Other people will probably have other suggestions. We didn't have to
go
through this for nursing, but we DID for other issues. Two-year olds
can be VERY stubborn; it's part of learning to control their world!
But
you've got to be firm, one of the hardest lessons of parenting.

Good luck!
--Beth Kevles

http://web.mit.edu/kevles/www/nomilk.html -- a page for the
milk-allergic
Disclaimer: Nothing in this message should be construed as medical
advice. Please consult with your own medical practicioner.

NOTE: No email is read at my MIT address. Use the AOL one if you
would
like me to reply.

the tantrums where he doesn't breathe.

Watch him, but don't take any actual action. He may be breathing very
shallowly, or not at all, but he will NOT die from this! When he needs
oxygen he'll take a breath. My mom's ped. reassured her that no child
has ever killed him/herself by holding his breath. (I'm afraid I may
have been the child that worried her...) If doing nothing frets your
husband, have him leave the room. YOU say something reassuring like
"I'm sorry you're so angry. I'll stay here with you to make sure you're
okay, but I'm afraid that whenever you have a tantrum I'm ***not
allowed** to give you what you want, even if I WANT to give it to you!"
(The "not allowed" part has worked WONDERS at our house ...)

Hope this helps,
--Beth Kevles

http://web.mit.edu/kevles/www/nomilk.html -- a page for the milk-allergic
Disclaimer: Nothing in this message should be construed as medical
advice. Please consult with your own medical practicioner.

NOTE: No email is read at my MIT address. Use the AOL one if you would
like me to reply.

In article . com,
"tired_mom" wrote:

Hello Beth,
Thanks very much for the advice. I am taking off tomorrow from work to
try this out. also i am so tired, just need some rest.
yes during day time, he understands everything we say and is very
cooperative. he is very calm compared to kids of his age. only in the
night, he looses control of himself and i feel it is no longer his own
self. he is constanly screaming, so he is not even able to listen to
what we are saying.
he probably is so addicted to nursing, he is not able to sleep without
it. i guess it is like any other addiction.

yes, you are right that we have been teaching him that tantrums work,
but there was no other go. with the way in which he cries, falls on the
bed flat and crying without even taking a breath,i am just so helpless.

he cries and then keep screaming without breathing. then my husband
hits his back so he resumes breathing. is this what is called tantrum.
do other kids do this or is this very extreme?

Kids vary; but this isn't uncommon.

But you have to not worry about the breathing. I DID have one cousin
(out of over 50, plus LOTS of other babies and children I've been close
to) who could hold his breath until he passed out. Learned to do it
pretty young, and apparently loved the attention. After being assured
by medical people that he would be OK, his mom and dad finally stopped
paying any attention to the breath holding, and he stopped it.

One of mine got self destructive in her (amazing) tantrums. She'd throw
herself into walls, or bite herself on the arm. I kept trying to keep
her from hurting herself, and it kept getting worse. Finally, I started
walking away -- leaving the room entirely, but staying close enough to
know if she got hurt badly -- and that's when the bad tantrums stopped.

He IS breathing, if he really does STOP breathing all together he'll
pass out and start breathing again. It's scary -- but attention when
he's doing it won't stop it.
--
Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care

In article
,
dragonlady wrote:

In article . com,
"tired_mom" wrote:

Hello Beth,
Thanks very much for the advice. I am taking off tomorrow from work to
try this out. also i am so tired, just need some rest.
yes during day time, he understands everything we say and is very
cooperative. he is very calm compared to kids of his age. only in the
night, he looses control of himself and i feel it is no longer his own
self. he is constanly screaming, so he is not even able to listen to
what we are saying.
he probably is so addicted to nursing, he is not able to sleep without
it. i guess it is like any other addiction.

yes, you are right that we have been teaching him that tantrums work,
but there was no other go. with the way in which he cries, falls on the
bed flat and crying without even taking a breath,i am just so helpless.

he cries and then keep screaming without breathing. then my husband
hits his back so he resumes breathing. is this what is called tantrum.
do other kids do this or is this very extreme?

Kids vary; but this isn't uncommon.

But you have to not worry about the breathing. I DID have one cousin
(out of over 50, plus LOTS of other babies and children I've been close
to) who could hold his breath until he passed out. Learned to do it
pretty young, and apparently loved the attention. After being assured
by medical people that he would be OK, his mom and dad finally stopped
paying any attention to the breath holding, and he stopped it.

One of mine got self destructive in her (amazing) tantrums. She'd throw
herself into walls, or bite herself on the arm. I kept trying to keep
her from hurting herself, and it kept getting worse. Finally, I started
walking away -- leaving the room entirely, but staying close enough to
know if she got hurt badly -- and that's when the bad tantrums stopped.

He IS breathing, if he really does STOP breathing all together he'll
pass out and start breathing again. It's scary -- but attention when
he's doing it won't stop it.

DD is a breath-holder. Turns blue in the face, passes out, the whole
nine yards. She's pretty much over it now that we ignore her when it
happens. I always make sure she's in a spot where she can't strike her
head when she falls, and then just let her get to it. I think it took
about 6 weeks for her to work her way through it.

eggs.

tired_mom wrote:

My son keeps nursing all night. he just turned 2.
He basically wants to keep sucking to sleep.

After he is snoring in sleep, i try to pull it out, he immediately
wakes up and starts crying.

if i dont give him, he screams on loud voice and acts like hysteric. he
is not able to control his anger and cries very hard. i cannot stand
seeing him cry like that so i just end up nursing. he just want to keep
sucking for soothing.
[snip]

One option would be you to go away for the night (perhaps just to a
sympathetic friends house), so that your son cannot nurse - if he is
2yo, he'll know that. Your husband can stay in the room with him,
to comfort him: you don't have to leave him alone to cry.

--
Penny Gaines
UK mum to three

"tired_mom" wrote in message
ups.com...
My son keeps nursing all night. he just turned 2.
He basically wants to keep sucking to sleep.

After he is snoring in sleep, i try to pull it out, he immediately
wakes up and starts crying.

if i dont give him, he screams on loud voice and acts like hysteric. he
is not able to control his anger and cries very hard. i cannot stand
seeing him cry like that so i just end up nursing. he just want to keep
sucking for soothing.

I read about letting children cry it out, but seeing the degree in
which he gets mad, i am afraid to try it. My husband tries to lift him,
but my son hits him and bangs his head and tries to get away from his
hands screaming.

Before trying to cry it out, if crying it out is something you would
consider (some people will not even CONSIDER it) then first read a helpful
book called Solving Your Child's Sleep Problems by Dr. Ferber. You *may*
want to read the first couple of chapters about sleep association anyway to
get a better idea of the details of your babe's situation.

at this point, there is no point in scolding or spanking him, because
he seems to have lost control and not listening any more.


OOOO you do not need to scold or spank. He is not misbehaving. He is doing
what he thinks he needs. Anyway, spanking is of dubious merit under the best
of circumstances IMO.


can you please help in how I should tackle this situation.
It was much better a few months ago, when he was waking up 2-3 times
for nursing and then going back to sleep. But past few months have been
extremely difficult.


Definitely get your hands on the aforementioned book. If the solution he
provides is unpalatable, then try a copy of the No Cry Sleep Solution which
tackles the same problem but more gently, slowly and gradually.

I have not slept well in so many months now. and it is affecting me a
lot now.

Stephanie Stowe wrote:
"tired_mom" wrote in message
ups.com...

at this point, there is no point in scolding or spanking him,
because
he seems to have lost control and not listening any more.


OOOO you do not need to scold or spank. He is not misbehaving. He is
doing
what he thinks he needs. Anyway, spanking is of dubious merit under
the best
of circumstances IMO.

I think she was referring to scolding for hitting her dh, not for the
original wanting to nurse issue.

Sorry, I don't have any actual advice.

Irene