Newborn feeding

Elizabeth H Bonesteel wrote:

We went ahead and rented a hospital-grade pump, and have been getting
what we can into Emily; but it hast been much (probably less than an
ounce). Ped appointment is tomorrow at 2:00, which is 36 hours after
her birth.

Is it harming her, being so hungry for so long? Should we give in to
the siren call of formula?

I think that is plenty for a day old baby! My milk didn't come in for 5
days. I didn't have to deal with inverted nipples, or any possible tongue
tie but Hunter was sleepy. He wouldn't latch for more then 3 minutes at a
time for the first two days. I think I lied to the nurses so we could go
home ;-)

Certainly watch closely and she will need to latch better and actively suck
for 5-10 minutes at some point in the next couple of days but right now I
don't think there is anything to be alarmed about and I certainly wouldn't
feel the need to use formula this early.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I think a newborn baby should have a wet
diaper corresponding to the number of days old they are for the first 3-5
days. So on day two she should have two, on day three she should have three
etc. and then they should have 6-8 wet diapers a day. She should be passing
meconium starting today. It doesn't take much colostrums to make that
happen as even Hunter (the minute suckle boy) was passing meconium each day
although it did take longer to pass it all then it did Luke, who was a more
enthusiastic nurser in the beginning. If she is not passing meconium, not
having any wet diapers, or showing signs of dehydration, then seek help.

Babies do not need milk in the first few days but if you start it (formula)
you sort of have to keep it up until your milk comes in. Baby stomachs are
tiny and only meant to get micro amounts of colostrums. As your body
gradually switches over to milk your baby's stomach will expand slowly as
well. If you fill her up with 2 ounces of formula at one setting on the
first day, then her stomach has immediately expanded but your body will
still follow the natural curve of increased production. You also run the
risk that the now full baby won't suckle as much at your breast, delaying
your milk even further.

Hang in there - and congratulations!!

--
Nikki
Mama to Hunter (5) and Luke (3)

On Wed, 26 May 2004 02:52:55 +0000, Elizabeth H Bonesteel wrote:

Is it harming her, being so hungry for so long? Should we give in to the
siren call of formula? I know we'd be dooming ourselves to bottles; but
given that she's had nothing but frustration at the nipple so far, maybe
we're already there.

For a newborn there is not much harm in "eating" very small amounts the
first few days after birth. Her stomach it tiny (thimble size) anyway, and
she has enough reserves of her own to make it through a week at least.
Plus the colostrum is nutritious enough that very small amounts are
sufficient for her needs.

I know it can be hard to get started, it took me the better part of 2
weeks to learn, and eventually I had to resort to nipple shields. The
problem was similar to yours: DS would not latch right, and my nipples
were slightly inverted. My milk didn't come in until 10 days after birth
and DS did fine until then without supplementing. If she still has
problems later on, you can consider one of the sets in which you give her
EBM through a small tube while she is nursing.

--
-- I
mommy to DS (July '02)
mommy to three tiny angels (28 Oct'03, 17 Feb'04 & 20 May'04)
guardian of DH (33)

Donna wrote:
"Mary W." wrote in message
...
Doctors don't usually panic
until baby has lost 10% of its birthweight.

What is the norm for newborn weightloss? I thought it was normal
for a baby to lose 10% of it's birthweight right after birth, but I
might be mis-remembering. Can anyone remind me?

In the US, doctors tend to get worried at losses of more than 10%. In the
UK, however, weight losses of up to 14% are considered normal. Unless the
baby is showing signs of dehydration, is not putting out an appropriate
number of wet or poopy diapers after the mother's milk comes in, or is
lethargic/listless, there is really no reason to supplement, even in the
event of an initial weight loss greater than 10%.
--
Be well, Barbara
Mom to Sin (Vernon, 2), Misery (Aurora, 4), and the Rising Son (Julian, 6)

Aurora (in the bathroom with her dad)--"It looks like an elephant, Daddy."
Me (later)--"You should feel flattered."

All opinions expressed in this post are well-reasoned and insightful.
Needless to say, they are not those of my Internet Service Provider, its
other subscribers or lackeys. Anyone who says otherwise is itchin' for a
fight. -- with apologies to Michael Feldman

Elizabeth H Bonesteel wrote:
Emily hasn't been able to latch. Lactation consultant #1 says this
is because she's "slightly" tongue-tied, and my nipples are a little
inverted. She recommends we keep trying; but if we don't get
anything into her in 24 hours, we make sure she gets fed (i.e.,
supplement with formula). Lactation consultant #2 says Emily isn't
tongu-tied if she can get her tongue over her gums (she can), I
should pump to make sure my supply gets
going (and to help pull my nipples forward) and we should give
Emily anything we get off of a finger.

FWIW, Emily, I don't think it's tongue-tie, but probably a combination of a
small baby (6 lbs. 1 oz. seems small to me--all of mine were more than a lb.
bigger than that) and nipples that are difficult to latch on to. I found
that even my very average-sized babies had mouths that were small in
comparison to my nipples, at least to start with, and that made latching on
tricky at first, even with my perfect normal sticky-outy nipples. As someone
else suggested, find Larry's Inverted Nipple FAQ.

Also, when you say she "hasn't been able to latch", what exactly do you
mean? Do you mean she's never even gotten the nipple into her mouth, or just
that she hasn't gotten *properly* latched on? Also, what methods have you
tried for helping her get latched on? If you have flat/inverted nipples, you
might need someone to help you by holding your breast in a manner that
causes the nipple to pop out while you steer baby towards the breast.

Is it harming her, being so hungry for so long?

Is she noticeably upset by it? Generally, babies in the first couple of days
are sleepy and don't nurse all *that* often or get that much colostrum, even
when they're latching on just fine. My oldest was very wakeful and nursed a
lot in the first days, but my younger two probably didn't nurse more than 5
times per 24 hours in the first 2-3 days. They picked up after that when my
milk came in on Day 3. Anyway, unless she's visibly distressed, I don't
think it's hurting her at all.

Should we give in
to the siren call of formula? I know we'd be dooming ourselves to
bottles; but given that she's had nothing but frustration at the
nipple so far, maybe we're already there.

Well, you'll want to see what's happening in terms of weight loss when you
visit the doctor and make sure that she's not getting dehydrated. I'd
supplement in a flash (using a finger-feeder or syringe) if I was seeing
signs of dehydration and I couldn't pump enough colostrum/milk to prevent
it. As long as you don't use a bottle to feed her, though, and you continue
to pump (even for pitiful amounts), you've still got a shot at getting her
on the breast before too long.

Good luck and HTH!
--
Be well, Barbara
Mom to Sin (Vernon, 2), Misery (Aurora, 4), and the Rising Son (Julian, 6)

Aurora (in the bathroom with her dad)--"It looks like an elephant, Daddy."
Me (later)--"You should feel flattered."

All opinions expressed in this post are well-reasoned and insightful.
Needless to say, they are not those of my Internet Service Provider, its
other subscribers or lackeys. Anyone who says otherwise is itchin' for a
fight. -- with apologies to Michael Feldman

"Circe" wrote in message
news:cS2tc.29380$wa.25116@fed1read07...
Donna wrote:
"Mary W." wrote in message
...
Doctors don't usually panic
until baby has lost 10% of its birthweight.

What is the norm for newborn weightloss? I thought it was normal
for a baby to lose 10% of it's birthweight right after birth, but I
might be mis-remembering. Can anyone remind me?

In the US, doctors tend to get worried at losses of more than 10%. In the
UK, however, weight losses of up to 14% are considered normal. Unless the
baby is showing signs of dehydration, is not putting out an appropriate
number of wet or poopy diapers after the mother's milk comes in, or is
lethargic/listless, there is really no reason to supplement, even in the
event of an initial weight loss greater than 10%.

Thanks, Barbara (and Mary W.). I'm amazed at how much I've forgotten in a
relatively short period of time! Can I blame this on placenta-brain?

Donna

Emily hasn't been able to latch. Lactation consultant #1 says this is
because she's "slightly" tongue-tied, and my nipples are a little
inverted. She recommends we keep trying; but if we don't get anything
into
her in 24 hours, we make sure she gets fed (i.e., supplement with
formula).
Lactation consultant #2 says Emily isn't tongu-tied if she can get her
tongue
over her gums (she can), I should pump to make sure my supply gets
going (and to help pull my nipples forward) and we should give Emily
anything
we get off of a finger.

I can't help you with the breastfeeding part cos I only bottle/formula feed.
But my 2nd baby was born tongue-tied. I'd say it's kinda important to work
out if she is or not. I could tell when he yawned that his tongue didn't
come out very far and pointed it out to the hospital staff. What do *you*
think? *IF* you do use bottles at some point, the only ones he could use
were Avent.

We went ahead and rented a hospital-grade pump, and have been getting what
we can into Emily; but it hast been much (probably less than an ounce).
Ped
appointment is tomorrow at 2:00, which is 36 hours after her birth.

At 36 hrs do you even have milk yet? Mine never came in with any of my kids
till 5 days after their births. I don't think I'd freak out yet.

Is it harming her, being so hungry for so long? Should we give in to the
siren call of formula? I know we'd be dooming ourselves to bottles; but
given that she's had nothing but frustration at the nipple so far, maybe
we're already there.

TIA for any advice!
Liz

Good luck and don't feel guilty, whatever you decide to do

Sophie
#4 due July 7, 2004

A&G&K writes:


: Things I can think of right now....

: 1) Larry has some good info on inverted nipples ... google Larry McMahon's
: posts on the topic or send an FAO.

At this point, I would say to spend extra time pumping, even when you don't
get anything out. The more time you spend stretching the nipple out, the
less it will go back in. What else you might try and do is to pump enough to
un-invert the nipple than try to latch her on. If it works, keep her on as
long as she will stay.

: 2) As for feeding - my milk didn't come in for the first 3 days and I
: despaired of ever being able to latch DD on by myself (ie without the help
: of a midwife) for at least a week (we both got the hang of it eventually
: though

Right. If you are pumping, there is NO reason to supplement with formula.
Simply feed her what you pump. You should be pumping about 10 times a
day. You should also not feed with a bottle. Tube attached to finder,
SNS, Lactaid, or even syringe. No bottles!

: 3) On ounce sounds like plenty to me ... remember they have tiny little
: tummies.

Exactly.


And tell the hospital staff to back off until your milk comes in.

Good luck,
Larry

"Larry McMahan" wrote in message
...
A&G&K writes:


: Things I can think of right now....

: 1) Larry has some good info on inverted nipples ... google Larry
McMahon's
: posts on the topic or send an FAO.

At this point, I would say to spend extra time pumping, even when you
don't
get anything out. The more time you spend stretching the nipple out, the
less it will go back in. What else you might try and do is to pump enough
to
un-invert the nipple than try to latch her on. If it works, keep her on
as
long as she will stay.

Actually that's what I was thinking myself ... looking back, my nipples were
pretty flat and I remember having trouble latching DD on at first. After 18
months of breastfeeding and er ... a fair bit of that time pumping once a
day, it sure doesn't *look* like I'm going to have the same problem this
time DD weaned a few months ago and I haven't pumped in ages, but the
nipples have never gone back in (TMI I know).

Another point of interest is that my LC said she has generally noticed the
problem more often in those of us who pretty much wore a bra every waking
minute since puberty and that may contribute to flattened nipples.

Amanda

--
DD 15th August 2002
1 tiny angel Nov 2003
EDD 19th August 2004

"A&G&K" wrote in message
...

Another point of interest is that my LC said she has generally noticed the
problem more often in those of us who pretty much wore a bra every waking
minute since puberty and that may contribute to flattened nipples.

Well, I'm not an expert or anything, just my personal experience: I was born
with inverted nipples. I am not someone who "wore a bra every waking
minute", quite the contrary: I hate bras and only use them to prevent
contact dermatitis under my breasts.

Monika

"Monika McMahan" wrote in message
news:Vndtc.2119$n_6.209@attbi_s53...

"A&G&K" wrote in message
...

Well, I'm not an expert or anything, just my personal experience: I was
born
with inverted nipples.


My daughter was born with inverted nipples. Aside from possible nursing
difficulties (not a major worry since she's not even two yet smile) are
there any issues that come with this?

Donna