My life... (A rant... anyone willing to read and offer any type of advice??)

Well, I really don't know - or, maybe, for once, I really do know...

Saturday... Sucked. Norm went to 'work' but as usual, nothing but a lie.
Came home at his convenience, bla bla bla. We ended up getting into a
fairly heated argument about lying and trust and all that, and then to cut
that short, 8am Sunday morning, it's like he's watching the clock and takes
off downstairs. I ended up getting up with him, as I find I always do no
matter what, and almost instantly, he's outside dicking around with his pos
bike 'fixing' it... B was off at my parents' place since Saturday afternoon
(spent the night there) and A was still fast asleep. I figured she wouldn't
be up until close to 10, as we had a fairly late night the night before... I
then suggested we go upstairs, maybe a nice hot shower and then crawl back
into bed. He tells me that sounds like a fine idea and he's done with the
bike, go start the shower, he'll be right up.

I start the shower and wait about 5 minutes and guess who's not there? I
run downstairs back out to the yard to see if he's going to be a while - no
sense leaving the shower run if he figures he's going to be at the bike for
another 10 or 15 minutes... He's gone. As if I didn't know this, though,
because I did. I had a feeling that morning since 8am when he magically
woke up before 11am. So, I head back upstairs, get in the shower and have a
nice hot shower. I was thinking (although I didn't believe it) that maybe
he just went to the gas station to fill the bike's tires up as he had
mentioned the day before, or maybe he was just taking the bike out for a
quick spin. As if I really believed that though.

All Sunday, MIA, as usual. Doesn't come home, doesn't call, nothing.

He left his bank card with me the night before, so later Sunday afternoon I
hit Walmart and get diapers and all that - stuff he knew we needed. Fairly
uneventful afternoon and evening, and I had a pretty good sleep... Woke up
once to visit the washroom and...

6am Monday morning, I wake up when the phone rings, thinking it better be an
emergency for someone to wake me up half an hour-45 minutes before I have to
wake up to get B off to school... It's the boss. Ha. He asks if Norm's up
and about yet - he's on his way. I simply said I have no idea if Norm's up,
although I doubt he would be. Obviously confused, the boss is wondering
what I mean. I, for the first time, didn't lie or cover for Norm, as I have
in the past - oh, he's sick this morning... He was up all night sick...
Whatever. This time, I simply said I have no idea where he is, I really
don't care where he is, he took off 9am on Sunday and hasn't been seen or
heard from since. I did apologize to the boss, but whatever. Not my
business, problem or concern. The boss sounded fairly ripped with his,
"F*ck, whatever. Thanks." I told him I'd pass along a message should I
hear from Norm, which I also told him I doubted I would.
So, Norm's got the maturity level of a bag of shelled peanuts. Didn't even
have the respect or decency to call his boss and even say something like,
"Man, I'm so sorry, ****'s hit the fan and I just need a bit of time... I
just need a day or two (or however long) to get things back in order..." or,
"I hate to do this to you, but I'm staying at this address... Would you be
able to pick me up from there for work?" Even, "Gee, I'm not at home right
now and I am going to be walking/taking the bus/riding a bike to work, so I
might be a bit later if it takes me a bit longer to get there, but I will be
at work." Nothing. Didn't call the boss, didn't care that he knows the
boss would be calling the house when he was on his way in the morning. Oh,
duh, I'm not even there! Maybe I'll avoid wasting HIS time and having him
call and wake the house up at 6am!

So, anyways, obviously didn't go to work on Monday. Monday night, we had my
brother's birthday... We were supposed to go over there for dinner... I
called my brother earlier in the afternoon to wish him a quick happy
birthday, and he asked who's all coming... I told him I would be coming with
the kids... Who else would be coming? He asked if Norm was going to make it
(seems my brother really does like him and they seem to get along real well)
and I felt horrible, but my bro sounded a bit hurt, almost, when he asked
about Norm and I told my brother that Norm most likely won't be there, as I
haven't a clue where he is, and I'm not going to beg him to come to the
birthday, obviously... Anyways, birthday went just fine, until about 530 or
so when my dad hears there's a voice mail on my cell... My dad heard my
diaper bag talking to him as he walked in the door, and I saw I had a
message... I saw it was Norm's mom calling, and since the day before I had
called her to ask her for a phone number, I thought maybe she was getting
back to me once she got home from work. No, I didn't have the brains to
check the message first, I just picked up my mom's phone and called her
back. It was Norm. I told him right up I was sorry I called, I had thought
maybe it was his mom returning my call. He said he left me a message, and
he wants his money and his bank card, and he wants it now. Sorry about your
luck, hon, but I'm on the other side of the city, and the steaks are done
and we are all sitting down to eat... Then there's cake and presents as
well, sucks to be you. He just keeps bitching about his money (that I took
almost all of it out to get diapers and pay the rent and all that)...
Anyways, I eventually check my voice mail, and he leaves a nasty message of
how he expects I will be dropping his bank card and money off at his mom's
house, but he will not be there when I drop it off. I ended up talking to
him for a little, asking him if all he really cares about is his bloody bank
card and money, and I told him I was not going to drop everything to bring
him his card. He knows where my mom lives, he knows where we live. I told
him I am NOT going to run around the city chasing after him at his every
call, since the last time we did that 4 months ago, B was seriously injured
and coulda, shoulda, woulda, we all could have been dead. During the phone
conversation, about 15 minutes long, he calms down and becomes human again.
He tells me to call him back 'when I'm done' - I told him if he wants to
talk to me, HE can call me. He knows our phone number, he knows the cell
number. HE can call, and I told him to call. Any time after 8 when the
cell is free to call and talk on. He said he'd call right around 8pm that
night.

Did he call? Of course not! Did I expect him to call? Do you really think
I'm still that stupid??

So, that brings us to today, Tuesday. To date, he has yet to call. He has
yet to show up or anything like that. Do I really care? Not really, but
maybe a bit... I was talking to a girl friend last night, and then again
this morning, and we had a good talk. I decided I was going to swallow my
pride. I went down, this morning, to the damned welfare office and made an
appointment. At this point, no one is going to hire me to work. I'm sick
of Norm coming and going as he pleases, having everything on HIS terms. For
the next little while, I am going to swallow my pride and get help and get
back on my feet. Show him I don't *need* him for us to survive. At least
for a while, I'll have that small bit of security that rent will get paid...
Bills won't pile up, food will be on the table for meals, there will be
diapers...

I came home, around 1115am, and I see there's a few messages left for me on
M$N... All from guess who! He said something along the lines of, "I really
don't know what to say" - "I miss the kids" - "I miss you :'(" (something
like that) I replied back, simply, that I can't tell him what to say or
what he should say. I miss him too, and both the kids surely miss him, but
this is nothing new. You know how to contact me, and all it takes is a
phone call if you just want to touch base. I'm not in the mood to fight or
make demands. He didn't reply, and come 6ish when his mom gets home from
work, he was logged off and she signed in. No more him since the morning.
No calls, again, even when I was gone, no more messages or anything. MIA,
as usual.
I then talked to my mom a bit earlier, and after a few minutes, she then
told me I should be going down to the welfare place. I didn't tell her
earlier today I already had, I said I would do this tomorrow. The good
thing that she said, and that I had already thought of, was I would then not
need to try and fight maintenance enforcement. Welfare will do that dirty
work for me. I also need to get the maintenance for B upped - he's getting
damn expensive - and get something in place for A. Welfare will do both of
those things, and they will do it faster and more efficiently, and I should
just be able to wait it out. With B's maintenance payments raised and with
something in order for A, bye bye to welfare... I believe I could make it on
that alone (this is assuming something can be changed, and hopefully go for
the max amount) until I can get back in school and working, which I
definitely plan to do, but obviously can't really consider just yet.

So anyways, that brings me to where I am right now. Sure, I feel so tired
of everything, and yes, I do love the jerk, although I do not love the
jerkish things he does. As of now, I've had a lot of time to sit and
think... Where am I? Where should I be? Where do I want to be? How do I
make it work for me, and the kids? Right now, I have it all planned - but
then again, when do plans ever really pan out exactly how you want and like
them to???

He's gone. I made that clear to him on Monday. I don't want or need him
back here, and he can now take some time to decide what he wants. He can
see and do what it takes for him to make his own decisions like a big boy.
If that takes 2 months, fine. If it takes 6 months, fine. If it never
happens, well, at least I will know that, and there's no reason for this
crap to happen. It doesn't do anyone any good at all. Let him go, set him
free. I need it, he needs it. Everyone needs that right now more than
ever. This time, though, it's going to be on MY terms. He's going to have
to prove anything he says, because, quite frankly, I'm not going to buy his
bs stories any more. I'm not going to give him my trust - he's lost it one
time now too many, and trust is something he now has to earn back and he has
to prove he wants and needs. I'm going to play it safe. I am thinking I'll
just lay low and see where things go.

Now, let's just say for argument's sake, he stays gone for oh, 3 months
(keep it simple). He does everything he can to gain and earn and keep
trust... Maybe he drops by to visit with the kids, and even me, maybe has
supper but goes wherever his home may be at the time... He helps put the
kids to bed, maybe we watch some TV, both get tired and he heads off home.
He goes to work every day and doesn't blow money - on stupid things, video
games, booze, drugs, eating out at restaurants every day - just becomes more
responsible in the sensible way... Provides money to help with life - maybe
swings by with some groceries for all of us to have supper and a bag of
diapers... This goes on for some time, things (obviously best case scenario)
seem to be great. He calls when he says he'll call, he shows up when he
says he'll come visit, he'll take the kids to the part when he promises them
that, whatever... Then, I guess, see how it goes... Maybe things will change
and almost be like a new start. Keep in mind, best case scenario... Maybe
consider some individual councilling, maybe try the couples one or maybe
even a family therapist of some sort... Is this kind of expectation
unrealistic? Is it possible for things to be downright horrible, yet saved
somehow?

I just think best case scenario is he pulls his socks up and grows up.
Worst case scenario is he doesn't, but at least we'll be out of it all and
don't have constant **** to dig out of all the time. Middle ground would be
he turns out to be an awesome part time dad - like if we just keep to being
civil and loving and not really together. For now, I said, this is a break.
He said he agreed. I had told him straight up that I am NOT and I will not
be looking for someone else, someone better, someone new - this is the
truth. He told me he would never do that either and that he misses me and
does love me, but right now, things aren't good - I did agree, and that is
one thing I do trust him on.

I do see this is a fairly bad situation, maybe even closer to being bad bad
situation, but... Do you think this *might* stand some chance of turning out
just fine with time? Am I (or even we) approaching this in a way that is
any worse than the way things currently seem to be, and even clearly are?
Am I setting things up for a major disaster or is there that chance that's
still there?

"xkatx" wrote in message
news:VVthg.18197$A8.1148@clgrps12...
Well, I really don't know - or, maybe, for once, I really do know...



He isn't going to change so get that out of your head. Don't live with that
thought and your actions will reflect that. You need to do what you need to
do.

You also need to allow him to see his kids whenever he wants to or can. The
kids are not part of this game.

Good luck. Again.

"Tiffany" wrote in message
news:uZzhg.6540$Id2.4424@trnddc03...

"xkatx" wrote in message
news:VVthg.18197$A8.1148@clgrps12...
Well, I really don't know - or, maybe, for once, I really do know...



He isn't going to change so get that out of your head. Don't live with
that thought and your actions will reflect that. You need to do what you
need to do.

Right now I am doing all I need to do - just to survive. He now has the
chance to make decision on his own - I'm not going to be there to make
decisions for him anymore. This is his time, *IF* he chooses, to make his
changes, even gradual ones if need be, and if he makes the choice to not
change, then fine. That's the main reason I am not getting hopes up for
anything at all. I'll be ready for whatever the outcome is.

You also need to allow him to see his kids whenever he wants to or can.
The kids are not part of this game.

Good luck. Again.

He actually had the chance to see them whenever he wanted to or can. At
this point, which either way is not permanent, he's not going to be coming
around here, and that's if he likes it or not, and that's because I am
pulling them out of *his* game. At this point in time, he will not be
around here at all until the time comes (if and when) he can make the choice
to NOT be coming around them when drugs are involved. There's no way I'm
going to allow this anymore. Once again, it comes down to being his own big
boy choice about that. He can't have his issues like that AND the kids at
the same time. It's just not going to work that way, and I know that no one
would ever, in their right mind, allow kids to be tossed into bad
situations, and I am doing what I can to get the bad situations out of here
and avoid them all together.
I know that either way, things will take time. If it takes him 2 months to
realize he wants to see them and be around here, in those 2 months he also
needs to realize that he cannot be drunk or high at any point when the kids
are around.
That's the one and only thing that I am going to keep my foot down on, other
than all the things that need to change should he decide he wants to
actually be *here* - and this is all about what he controls for himself.

xkatx wrote:
Well, I really don't know - or, maybe, for once, I really do know...

snipped for space

I do see this is a fairly bad situation, maybe even closer to being bad bad
situation, but... Do you think this *might* stand some chance of turning out
just fine with time? Am I (or even we) approaching this in a way that is
any worse than the way things currently seem to be, and even clearly are?
Am I setting things up for a major disaster or is there that chance that's
still there?

Kat,

I have been busy , very busy drowning in lifes wonderful ups and downs.
I was sure I am having the toughest time than anyone until I read your
"life". I'm older maybe by ...oh 10 , 15 , er maybe even 20 years LOL!
You sound like a strong and level headed young woman. What you explain
you are going through with Norm sounds familiar to me. about 20 years
ago I left my then husband with a five year old and six weeks later
found out I was pregnant again from an incident that was not consentual
and the reason I left him that morning. It was very hard , very lonely,
and the best decision I ever made for myself and children. To this day
he is still drinking, and has emotionally hurt our children and still
does. I know the struggles you are feeling with that Norm is a great
guy when he is clean and sober and this is the man you Love, not the
guy he becomes when he falls. Most times when we are young we make our
decisions from our hearts although our heads are saying something else.
My heart kept me with the clean and sober guy I loved,until the "other"
guy finally convinced my head that my child and I were not safe when he
was around. It is easy for people to tell us what they think we should
do, but until we are ready in our own hearts and heads to make a change
we continue to have an internal war of "what if " and "maybe" he/she
will change. I have a 25 year old daughter and an 18 and a half year
old daughter, I know I can not prevent them from having to learn on
their own sometimes, I do voice my "experienced" opinion, maybe
sometimes even when they do not want it, but 9 times outta 10 they come
back and say "I wish I had listened to your advice". My step daughter
(34 years old) will be marrying her "alcoholic" fiancee on July 1st, I
have tried to talk to her, long before marriage even came into play,
she acknowledges/(enables) his illness and has chosen to stay in the
life that I am watching her children suffer. I wish she could
understand the damaging effects that alcoholism has on children. Her
three year old has stomped to death a hampster, she didn't even so much
as call her doctor about what he did and the little boy when asked "why
did you do that" stated "to see its guts". Her 14 year old is raging,
hitting on his 10 year old sister , punching walls, sleeping in the
middle of the day, screaming obcentities, outbursts of crying, has told
me all his mom and her fiancee do is yell scream and fight , he does
not want her to marry him or live with him , he is afraid being in his
own home. What I see is she is choosing this man over her children's
health and well being, I suggested she get her children help
immediately, I am considering doing more than just suggesting because I
do not think she hears me. I guess what I am trying to say is that the
children must come first, and even though we may think they are too
young to be affected by it, they really are, even infants .Three year
olds killing small mammmals should have had a much more important
reaction than "he didn't mean it" and ignore it. My step daughter is
still thinking with her heart about her partner, not her head and the
damage to her children is showing itself. You are making a very
responsible choice to remove yourself and children into a safer
environment. Please keep thinking with your head with Norm and let him
know you are prepared to go it yourself rather than subject your
children to it. He needs to get help for his inability to stay clean
and sober and responsible to you and the children. Good luck and stand
tall !

Bev

"Bev" wrote in message
ps.com...

xkatx wrote:
Well, I really don't know - or, maybe, for once, I really do know...

snipped for space

I do see this is a fairly bad situation, maybe even closer to being bad
bad
situation, but... Do you think this *might* stand some chance of turning
out
just fine with time? Am I (or even we) approaching this in a way that is
any worse than the way things currently seem to be, and even clearly are?
Am I setting things up for a major disaster or is there that chance
that's
still there?

Kat,

I have been busy , very busy drowning in lifes wonderful ups and downs.
I was sure I am having the toughest time than anyone until I read your
"life". I'm older maybe by ...oh 10 , 15 , er maybe even 20 years LOL!

Heh... I read it all before responding, and it looks like I'm right between
your girls' ages!

You sound like a strong and level headed young woman. What you explain
you are going through with Norm sounds familiar to me. about 20 years
ago I left my then husband with a five year old and six weeks later
found out I was pregnant again from an incident that was not consentual
and the reason I left him that morning. It was very hard , very lonely,
and the best decision I ever made for myself and children. To this day
he is still drinking, and has emotionally hurt our children and still
does.

I think for me, this is the best decision I can make right now, and no
matter what the outcome is, it will be better. If nothing changes, at least
we're out of a crappy situation. If things straighten up and change, I do
believe that this is the only way that will make a change possible. Either
way, the problems are no longer directly involved over here on such a
regular basis.

I know the struggles you are feeling with that Norm is a great
guy when he is clean and sober and this is the man you Love, not the
guy he becomes when he falls.

The problem doesn't seem to be when he's around. It's when he's not around.
Lately, it's that he just comes and goes as he sees fit for him. He takes
off for days and does whatever he wants. He blows all the money, and then
when he feels like coming back, the only months we struggle with bills and
money are those months when he dicks off for a weekend or few days. I see
the pattern, and that's not fair or right. He's not a huge drinker. He
never was. It's just he will go and get drunk when someone asks or mentions
it. Then he takes off and disappears and does his own thing.
With the pot, which IS a major problem, that's the same story, but kind of
different. I have no problem with drinking, as long as you do it
responsibly. Not drunk around kids, not drinking and driving, not blowing
money on it all the time. The only problem with pot that I have is bringing
it into the house and it being around my kids OR coming around the kids
right after. THAT I do have a problem with. I don't want it in the house
and I do not want it, in any shape or form, around the kids ever. I,
personally, know that there's a lot of pot smokers out in the world. I will
and admit now that I've done it on occasion, but those 'on occasion' times
are when I have no children to be around. A weekend rolls around and the
kids go sleep over at my parents' place. It's 11pm, the kids have been in
bed for hours and will sleep until the morning, I've gone out for a quick
smoke and come in the house, had a hot shower and went to sleep. That case
hasn't been often, and it's not something I would ever do often enough, but
in the case of no kids for the night? Hell yea, I've been there, done that.
He seems to see it as just fiine to be high as a kite at 2pm when the kids
are playing or whatever the case may be. NOT at all right as far as I see
it.
He's not crazy, violent, mean, anything like that, it's just the whole idea
of it.

Most times when we are young we make our
decisions from our hearts although our heads are saying something else.
My heart kept me with the clean and sober guy I loved,until the "other"
guy finally convinced my head that my child and I were not safe when he
was around. It is easy for people to tell us what they think we should
do, but until we are ready in our own hearts and heads to make a change
we continue to have an internal war of "what if " and "maybe" he/she
will change.

Now is when I want and need a change. I'm past the point of enough is
enough.

I have a 25 year old daughter and an 18 and a half year
old daughter, I know I can not prevent them from having to learn on
their own sometimes, I do voice my "experienced" opinion, maybe
sometimes even when they do not want it, but 9 times outta 10 they come
back and say "I wish I had listened to your advice".

That's usually the way it is

My step daughter
(34 years old) will be marrying her "alcoholic" fiancee on July 1st, I
have tried to talk to her, long before marriage even came into play,
she acknowledges/(enables) his illness and has chosen to stay in the
life that I am watching her children suffer. I wish she could
understand the damaging effects that alcoholism has on children.

I do see the crap that's going on over here. Slightly different
experiences, yet same ****, different pile in the long run.

Her
three year old has stomped to death a hampster, she didn't even so much
as call her doctor about what he did and the little boy when asked "why
did you do that" stated "to see its guts".

OMG. That's kind of scary. Poor hamster and even poor kid.

Her 14 year old is raging,
hitting on his 10 year old sister , punching walls, sleeping in the
middle of the day, screaming obcentities, outbursts of crying, has told
me all his mom and her fiancee do is yell scream and fight , he does
not want her to marry him or live with him , he is afraid being in his
own home. What I see is she is choosing this man over her children's
health and well being, I suggested she get her children help
immediately, I am considering doing more than just suggesting because I
do not think she hears me.

No, it seems we don't want to hear it until we're ready to admit and see it.
That's pretty much how every person seems to work one way or the other.

I guess what I am trying to say is that the
children must come first, and even though we may think they are too
young to be affected by it, they really are, even infants .Three year
olds killing small mammmals should have had a much more important
reaction than "he didn't mean it" and ignore it. My step daughter is
still thinking with her heart about her partner, not her head and the
damage to her children is showing itself. You are making a very
responsible choice to remove yourself and children into a safer
environment. Please keep thinking with your head with Norm and let him
know you are prepared to go it yourself rather than subject your
children to it. He needs to get help for his inability to stay clean
and sober and responsible to you and the children. Good luck and stand
tall !

Bev

He needs to grow up. That's all there is to it. Needs to be a big boy and
make grown up, big boy decisions. Granted, he could be scared, or
something, but that is not an excuse. Him taking off and doing as he wishes
is not going to make things better. I, still, have an appointment at the
damned welfare office today at 3. I am going there. I really don't care.
I'll jump through their small hoops of fire. I don't care if people will
look down on me, and they can think whatever they want. I see, in a lot of
ways, that I have put myself in this position, but I also know I didn't do
it on my own. To be honest, B and I were like a team together. He came and
then A, and that was good. I made it just fine on my own, with B, for so
long. I was getting gov't help when B was first born, but the next
September, when he was about 7 months old, I went to school and I survived
on student grants and loans. Never went back into the computers in the
system since then. I went to school, then I worked. We did fine. Then I
stopped working and I stayed home with the kids. Norm worked. Again, we
did just fine.
Now I sat thinking last night, and I really do not want this next baby. I
don't want it at all. I have B and A and that seems to be enough, almost.
I wonder if there's something wrong with me, but I just sit in a position
where I really don't want a baby as well. This is going to put me in a
position where I'm not going to be able to work or anything. A can go to
daycare any time now. I could go back to work, but who is going to hire me?
Then finding child care for 3 kids and making enough money? OMG... I don't
even want to think about that... The good thing is, though, at least I can
get some help. It puts me in a situation where I can at least give someone
my big, huge sob story and get all the help I need for as long as I need...
I can't keep going on like this... I've noticed I've lost all my patience.
I snap and find I shout over something small, and that's not fair to anyone,
and it needs to stop NOW.
I have that appointment in 2 hours. I am not going to miss it. I'll do
what they want and how they want, and soon enough, we should be doing
alright. I told Norm about this appointment and my intentions. I know he
knows that maintenance will be on his case, and he knows what that means for
him. I really don't care about that. I know when things settle down,
everything will be easier and better. Nothing can really get worse, it can
only get better, and I'm going to make sure of that!

xkatx wrote:
"Bev" wrote in message
ps.com...

xkatx wrote:
Well, I really don't know - or, maybe, for once, I really do know...

snipped for space

I do see this is a fairly bad situation, maybe even closer to being bad
bad
situation, but... Do you think this *might* stand some chance of turning
out
just fine with time? Am I (or even we) approaching this in a way that is
any worse than the way things currently seem to be, and even clearly are?
Am I setting things up for a major disaster or is there that chance
that's
still there?

Kat,

I have been busy , very busy drowning in lifes wonderful ups and downs.
I was sure I am having the toughest time than anyone until I read your
"life". I'm older maybe by ...oh 10 , 15 , er maybe even 20 years LOL!

Heh... I read it all before responding, and it looks like I'm right between
your girls' ages!

You sound like a strong and level headed young woman. What you explain
you are going through with Norm sounds familiar to me. about 20 years
ago I left my then husband with a five year old and six weeks later
found out I was pregnant again from an incident that was not consentual
and the reason I left him that morning. It was very hard , very lonely,
and the best decision I ever made for myself and children. To this day
he is still drinking, and has emotionally hurt our children and still
does.

I think for me, this is the best decision I can make right now, and no
matter what the outcome is, it will be better. If nothing changes, at least
we're out of a crappy situation. If things straighten up and change, I do
believe that this is the only way that will make a change possible. Either
way, the problems are no longer directly involved over here on such a
regular basis.

I know the struggles you are feeling with that Norm is a great
guy when he is clean and sober and this is the man you Love, not the
guy he becomes when he falls.

The problem doesn't seem to be when he's around. It's when he's not around.
Lately, it's that he just comes and goes as he sees fit for him. He takes
off for days and does whatever he wants. He blows all the money, and then
when he feels like coming back, the only months we struggle with bills and
money are those months when he dicks off for a weekend or few days. I see
the pattern, and that's not fair or right. He's not a huge drinker. He
never was. It's just he will go and get drunk when someone asks or mentions
it. Then he takes off and disappears and does his own thing.
With the pot, which IS a major problem, that's the same story, but kind of
different. I have no problem with drinking, as long as you do it
responsibly. Not drunk around kids, not drinking and driving, not blowing
money on it all the time. The only problem with pot that I have is bringing
it into the house and it being around my kids OR coming around the kids
right after. THAT I do have a problem with. I don't want it in the house
and I do not want it, in any shape or form, around the kids ever. I,
personally, know that there's a lot of pot smokers out in the world. I will
and admit now that I've done it on occasion, but those 'on occasion' times
are when I have no children to be around. A weekend rolls around and the
kids go sleep over at my parents' place. It's 11pm, the kids have been in
bed for hours and will sleep until the morning, I've gone out for a quick
smoke and come in the house, had a hot shower and went to sleep. That case
hasn't been often, and it's not something I would ever do often enough, but
in the case of no kids for the night? Hell yea, I've been there, done that.
He seems to see it as just fiine to be high as a kite at 2pm when the kids
are playing or whatever the case may be. NOT at all right as far as I see
it.
He's not crazy, violent, mean, anything like that, it's just the whole idea
of it.

Most times when we are young we make our
decisions from our hearts although our heads are saying something else.
My heart kept me with the clean and sober guy I loved,until the "other"
guy finally convinced my head that my child and I were not safe when he
was around. It is easy for people to tell us what they think we should
do, but until we are ready in our own hearts and heads to make a change
we continue to have an internal war of "what if " and "maybe" he/she
will change.

Now is when I want and need a change. I'm past the point of enough is
enough.

I have a 25 year old daughter and an 18 and a half year
old daughter, I know I can not prevent them from having to learn on
their own sometimes, I do voice my "experienced" opinion, maybe
sometimes even when they do not want it, but 9 times outta 10 they come
back and say "I wish I had listened to your advice".

That's usually the way it is

My step daughter
(34 years old) will be marrying her "alcoholic" fiancee on July 1st, I
have tried to talk to her, long before marriage even came into play,
she acknowledges/(enables) his illness and has chosen to stay in the
life that I am watching her children suffer. I wish she could
understand the damaging effects that alcoholism has on children.

I do see the crap that's going on over here. Slightly different
experiences, yet same ****, different pile in the long run.

Her
three year old has stomped to death a hampster, she didn't even so much
as call her doctor about what he did and the little boy when asked "why
did you do that" stated "to see its guts".

OMG. That's kind of scary. Poor hamster and even poor kid.

Her 14 year old is raging,
hitting on his 10 year old sister , punching walls, sleeping in the
middle of the day, screaming obcentities, outbursts of crying, has told
me all his mom and her fiancee do is yell scream and fight , he does
not want her to marry him or live with him , he is afraid being in his
own home. What I see is she is choosing this man over her children's
health and well being, I suggested she get her children help
immediately, I am considering doing more than just suggesting because I
do not think she hears me.

No, it seems we don't want to hear it until we're ready to admit and see it.
That's pretty much how every person seems to work one way or the other.

I guess what I am trying to say is that the
children must come first, and even though we may think they are too
young to be affected by it, they really are, even infants .Three year
olds killing small mammmals should have had a much more important
reaction than "he didn't mean it" and ignore it. My step daughter is
still thinking with her heart about her partner, not her head and the
damage to her children is showing itself. You are making a very
responsible choice to remove yourself and children into a safer
environment. Please keep thinking with your head with Norm and let him
know you are prepared to go it yourself rather than subject your
children to it. He needs to get help for his inability to stay clean
and sober and responsible to you and the children. Good luck and stand
tall !

Bev

snip


He needs to grow up. That's all there is to it. Needs to be a big boy and
make grown up, big boy decisions. Granted, he could be scared, or
something, but that is not an excuse. Him taking off and doing as he wishes
is not going to make things better. I, still, have an appointment at the
damned welfare office today at 3. I am going there. I really don't care.
I'll jump through their small hoops of fire. I don't care if people will
look down on me, and they can think whatever they want. I see, in a lot of
ways, that I have put myself in this position, but I also know I didn't do
it on my own. To be honest, B and I were like a team together. He came and
then A, and that was good. I made it just fine on my own, with B, for so
long. I was getting gov't help when B was first born, but the next
September, when he was about 7 months old, I went to school and I survived
on student grants and loans. Never went back into the computers in the
system since then. I went to school, then I worked. We did fine. Then I
stopped working and I stayed home with the kids. Norm worked. Again, we
did just fine.
Now I sat thinking last night, and I really do not want this next baby. I
don't want it at all. I have B and A and that seems to be enough, almost.
I wonder if there's something wrong with me, but I just sit in a position
where I really don't want a baby as well. This is going to put me in a
position where I'm not going to be able to work or anything. A can go to
daycare any time now. I could go back to work, but who is going to hire me?
Then finding child care for 3 kids and making enough money? OMG... I don't
even want to think about that... The good thing is, though, at least I can
get some help. It puts me in a situation where I can at least give someone
my big, huge sob story and get all the help I need for as long as I need...
I can't keep going on like this... I've noticed I've lost all my patience.
I snap and find I shout over something small, and that's not fair to anyone,
and it needs to stop NOW.
I have that appointment in 2 hours. I am not going to miss it. I'll do
what they want and how they want, and soon enough, we should be doing
alright. I told Norm about this appointment and my intentions. I know he
knows that maintenance will be on his case, and he knows what that means for
him. I really don't care about that. I know when things settle down,
everything will be easier and better. Nothing can really get worse, it can
only get better, and I'm going to make sure of that!

Kat,

The "system" is there for people that truly need asistance and I know
the people that abuse it are to blame for the way others feel about
someone using the system. Cases like yours and indeed mine and yes I
did also depend on the "welfare system" to get me on my feet. I hated
it because of the way people looked at me in the grocery store buying
food w/ food stamps. I really didn't need the judgement from people
that didn't know anything at all about why I was buying food with food
stamps. I can imagine how this pregnancy is weighing on your mind, it
only seems to be a bigger worry now because your partner has bailed on
you. You are strong enough to make it through , for now just concern
yourself with getting the aid in place and taking care of you , your
pregnancy, and your children. I am glad to hear Norm binges away from
home, but the using is still a financial bomb as well as drug and
alcohol use destroys families, brain cells, and the abandonment you and
the children go through just is not fair. I hope he gets his head outta
his you know what and becomes the person you and the children need to
keep a safe and happy home. If not you have done the right thing for
yourself and children to cut him loose. These things are never easy and
it will take some time for you to be able to get back to work and all,
don't beat yourself up about getting the help that is out there , you
need the help so you can keep your family safe. When I was younger I
had the same carefree attitude about using , thought the rules made to
not use around the kids blah blah was being responsible, I learned the
hard way that we were only kidding ourselves, the true reality was we
were screwing up our own heads and the kids took the fall later for it.
I have had my time with self medicating , I believe in another post you
mention Norms addmission to having "Issues" to work through.....indeed
his use and self medicating and irresponsible behaviors very well could
be a direct result of his own trauma, the good thing is that he can
verbalise and recognise it, you could support his seeking therapy and
rehab. I strongly do not believe the no using around the children rule
is what he , you or the children need. Addiction is addiction using
mind altering substances is dangerous. Have you or norm thought about
the what if one day/night one of your children needs blood or something
you or Norm could give to save their lives and what having drugs in
your system would mean? Responsibly you would have to tell the health
professionals about your drug use .....will they report it to the child
protective agency? See these are the things we are not thinking about
when we choose to use even if it were just pot...Do you really want to
put that into your child? I am certainly not judging please do not
think I am, I was there once in my life and I was/am no better and
certainly not guilt free. I didn't think about it either when I was in
my 20's, not a bad thought to put in his mind though to help him see
how important it is for him to clean up his act. You are making the
right choices and much of what he has to do he has to want to do
himself, don't give up on what you know to be right for you and the
kids.
Bev

"Bev" wrote in message
oups.com...

xkatx wrote:
"Bev" wrote in message
ps.com...

snipped 'cause it's too long

Nothing can really get worse, it can
only get better, and I'm going to make sure of that!

Kat,

The "system" is there for people that truly need asistance and I know
the people that abuse it are to blame for the way others feel about
someone using the system.

I almost have the thought that I'm going to be abusing things. It's more
than likely just my pride not wanting to bend and admit to myself that
things are ****. They are, I see it, and I do admit it to myself, but I
really don't want to admit it to everyone and announce it to the world (if I
kind of already haven't done that! lol)

Cases like yours and indeed mine and yes I
did also depend on the "welfare system" to get me on my feet. I hated
it because of the way people looked at me in the grocery store buying
food w/ food stamps. I really didn't need the judgement from people
that didn't know anything at all about why I was buying food with food
stamps.

There was a time, when I was not on any welfare or anything, that I can't
exactly remember the situation, but I recall it was at the grocery store and
I must have been getting some groceries. The lady, I recall, had said
something to me about how tough it must be to be a young mom, but luckily
there's the welfare system to help out young moms who need it. I know there
was nothing to make a person just outwardly assume I was sitting on
welfare - I wasn't - and I was fairly offended by this wench's comment.
Now, the welfare scenario is going to be true, and I know I won't be able to
get mad, I'll most likely have to hang my head in shame. That's one thing
I'm not looking forward to...

I can imagine how this pregnancy is weighing on your mind, it
only seems to be a bigger worry now because your partner has bailed on
you. You are strong enough to make it through , for now just concern
yourself with getting the aid in place and taking care of you , your
pregnancy, and your children.

I seem to be pretty good during the day... Come evening, though, I feel so
down and depressed like I haven't for probably 3 years now. If I'm not down
at the computer once the kids are asleep, I'm just laying on the bed staring
up into space not really thinking of anything. I have really nothing to
fill my mind. It's not like I can just hop up and go out to fill the time
and my mind. No one really calls much anymore, and I actually don't mind.
I haven't picked up the phone at all today, even though I think it only rang
3 or 4 different times. I didn't even check who was calling, nor did I
really care. No messages left, so I assumed it wasn't an emergency.

I am glad to hear Norm binges away from
home, but the using is still a financial bomb as well as drug and
alcohol use destroys families, brain cells, and the abandonment you and
the children go through just is not fair.

Apparently it's fair to him. I guess what's not fair is us maybe tying him
down? But, again, it's not like this is all brand new for him. It's not
like he's 17 or 18 years old anymore. It's not at all like any of this was
a big accident or unexpected. Far from a surprise, so I really don't know.

I hope he gets his head outta
his you know what and becomes the person you and the children need to
keep a safe and happy home. If not you have done the right thing for
yourself and children to cut him loose. These things are never easy and
it will take some time for you to be able to get back to work and all,
don't beat yourself up about getting the help that is out there , you
need the help so you can keep your family safe.

Head out of his ass, you mean? What do you do if your head IS your rear
end, or at least it sure seems to be? Whatever way it all turns out, I
don't see that there's much choice in what I should have done. I really do
feel like I have been left with very little choice. I do believe I was
given the only choice, and I made that choice. Works for me, AFAIC.

When I was younger I
had the same carefree attitude about using , thought the rules made to
not use around the kids blah blah was being responsible, I learned the
hard way that we were only kidding ourselves, the true reality was we
were screwing up our own heads and the kids took the fall later for it.
I have had my time with self medicating , I believe in another post you
mention Norms addmission to having "Issues" to work through.....indeed
his use and self medicating and irresponsible behaviors very well could
be a direct result of his own trauma, the good thing is that he can
verbalise and recognise it, you could support his seeking therapy and
rehab. I strongly do not believe the no using around the children rule
is what he , you or the children need. Addiction is addiction using
mind altering substances is dangerous. Have you or norm thought about
the what if one day/night one of your children needs blood or something
you or Norm could give to save their lives and what having drugs in
your system would mean? Responsibly you would have to tell the health
professionals about your drug use .....will they report it to the child
protective agency? See these are the things we are not thinking about
when we choose to use even if it were just pot...Do you really want to
put that into your child? I am certainly not judging please do not
think I am, I was there once in my life and I was/am no better and
certainly not guilt free. I didn't think about it either when I was in
my 20's, not a bad thought to put in his mind though to help him see
how important it is for him to clean up his act. You are making the
right choices and much of what he has to do he has to want to do
himself, don't give up on what you know to be right for you and the
kids.
Bev

I don't see any point in reasoning with him. Whenever I've said something
about whatever, and gave a reason, he's always looked at it like I'm
throwing out random, stupid, illogical excuses at him. To be completely
honest, I could handle and deal with the once in a blue moon thing. All the
time or even often-quite often, no.

xkatx wrote:
Well, I really don't know - or, maybe, for once, I really do know...

Saturday... Sucked. Norm went to 'work' but as usual, nothing but a lie.
Came home at his convenience, bla bla bla. We ended up getting into a
fairly heated argument about lying and trust and all that, and then to cut
that short, 8am Sunday morning, it's like he's watching the clock and takes
off downstairs. I ended up getting up with him, as I find I always do no
matter what, and almost instantly, he's outside dicking around with his pos
bike 'fixing' it... B was off at my parents' place since Saturday afternoon
(spent the night there) and A was still fast asleep. I figured she wouldn't
be up until close to 10, as we had a fairly late night the night before... I
then suggested we go upstairs, maybe a nice hot shower and then crawl back
into bed. He tells me that sounds like a fine idea and he's done with the
bike, go start the shower, he'll be right up.

I start the shower and wait about 5 minutes and guess who's not there? I
run downstairs back out to the yard to see if he's going to be a while - no
sense leaving the shower run if he figures he's going to be at the bike for
another 10 or 15 minutes... He's gone. As if I didn't know this, though,
because I did. I had a feeling that morning since 8am when he magically
woke up before 11am. So, I head back upstairs, get in the shower and have a
nice hot shower. I was thinking (although I didn't believe it) that maybe
he just went to the gas station to fill the bike's tires up as he had
mentioned the day before, or maybe he was just taking the bike out for a
quick spin. As if I really believed that though.

All Sunday, MIA, as usual. Doesn't come home, doesn't call, nothing.

He left his bank card with me the night before, so later Sunday afternoon I
hit Walmart and get diapers and all that - stuff he knew we needed. Fairly
uneventful afternoon and evening, and I had a pretty good sleep... Woke up
once to visit the washroom and...

6am Monday morning, I wake up when the phone rings, thinking it better be an
emergency for someone to wake me up half an hour-45 minutes before I have to
wake up to get B off to school... It's the boss. Ha. He asks if Norm's up
and about yet - he's on his way. I simply said I have no idea if Norm's up,
although I doubt he would be. Obviously confused, the boss is wondering
what I mean. I, for the first time, didn't lie or cover for Norm, as I have
in the past - oh, he's sick this morning... He was up all night sick...
Whatever. This time, I simply said I have no idea where he is, I really
don't care where he is, he took off 9am on Sunday and hasn't been seen or
heard from since. I did apologize to the boss, but whatever. Not my
business, problem or concern. The boss sounded fairly ripped with his,
"F*ck, whatever. Thanks." I told him I'd pass along a message should I
hear from Norm, which I also told him I doubted I would.
So, Norm's got the maturity level of a bag of shelled peanuts. Didn't even
have the respect or decency to call his boss and even say something like,
"Man, I'm so sorry, ****'s hit the fan and I just need a bit of time... I
just need a day or two (or however long) to get things back in order..." or,
"I hate to do this to you, but I'm staying at this address... Would you be
able to pick me up from there for work?" Even, "Gee, I'm not at home right
now and I am going to be walking/taking the bus/riding a bike to work, so I
might be a bit later if it takes me a bit longer to get there, but I will be
at work." Nothing. Didn't call the boss, didn't care that he knows the
boss would be calling the house when he was on his way in the morning. Oh,
duh, I'm not even there! Maybe I'll avoid wasting HIS time and having him
call and wake the house up at 6am!

So, anyways, obviously didn't go to work on Monday. Monday night, we had my
brother's birthday... We were supposed to go over there for dinner... I
called my brother earlier in the afternoon to wish him a quick happy
birthday, and he asked who's all coming... I told him I would be coming with
the kids... Who else would be coming? He asked if Norm was going to make it
(seems my brother really does like him and they seem to get along real well)
and I felt horrible, but my bro sounded a bit hurt, almost, when he asked
about Norm and I told my brother that Norm most likely won't be there, as I
haven't a clue where he is, and I'm not going to beg him to come to the
birthday, obviously... Anyways, birthday went just fine, until about 530 or
so when my dad hears there's a voice mail on my cell... My dad heard my
diaper bag talking to him as he walked in the door, and I saw I had a
message... I saw it was Norm's mom calling, and since the day before I had
called her to ask her for a phone number, I thought maybe she was getting
back to me once she got home from work. No, I didn't have the brains to
check the message first, I just picked up my mom's phone and called her
back. It was Norm. I told him right up I was sorry I called, I had thought
maybe it was his mom returning my call. He said he left me a message, and
he wants his money and his bank card, and he wants it now. Sorry about your
luck, hon, but I'm on the other side of the city, and the steaks are done
and we are all sitting down to eat... Then there's cake and presents as
well, sucks to be you. He just keeps bitching about his money (that I took
almost all of it out to get diapers and pay the rent and all that)...
Anyways, I eventually check my voice mail, and he leaves a nasty message of
how he expects I will be dropping his bank card and money off at his mom's
house, but he will not be there when I drop it off. I ended up talking to
him for a little, asking him if all he really cares about is his bloody bank
card and money, and I told him I was not going to drop everything to bring
him his card. He knows where my mom lives, he knows where we live. I told
him I am NOT going to run around the city chasing after him at his every
call, since the last time we did that 4 months ago, B was seriously injured
and coulda, shoulda, woulda, we all could have been dead. During the phone
conversation, about 15 minutes long, he calms down and becomes human again.
He tells me to call him back 'when I'm done' - I told him if he wants to
talk to me, HE can call me. He knows our phone number, he knows the cell
number. HE can call, and I told him to call. Any time after 8 when the
cell is free to call and talk on. He said he'd call right around 8pm that
night.

Did he call? Of course not! Did I expect him to call? Do you really think
I'm still that stupid??

So, that brings us to today, Tuesday. To date, he has yet to call. He has
yet to show up or anything like that. Do I really care? Not really, but
maybe a bit... I was talking to a girl friend last night, and then again
this morning, and we had a good talk. I decided I was going to swallow my
pride. I went down, this morning, to the damned welfare office and made an
appointment. At this point, no one is going to hire me to work. I'm sick
of Norm coming and going as he pleases, having everything on HIS terms. For
the next little while, I am going to swallow my pride and get help and get
back on my feet. Show him I don't *need* him for us to survive. At least
for a while, I'll have that small bit of security that rent will get paid...
Bills won't pile up, food will be on the table for meals, there will be
diapers...

I came home, around 1115am, and I see there's a few messages left for me on
M$N... All from guess who! He said something along the lines of, "I really
don't know what to say" - "I miss the kids" - "I miss you :'(" (something
like that) I replied back, simply, that I can't tell him what to say or
what he should say. I miss him too, and both the kids surely miss him, but
this is nothing new. You know how to contact me, and all it takes is a
phone call if you just want to touch base. I'm not in the mood to fight or
make demands. He didn't reply, and come 6ish when his mom gets home from
work, he was logged off and she signed in. No more him since the morning.
No calls, again, even when I was gone, no more messages or anything. MIA,
as usual.
I then talked to my mom a bit earlier, and after a few minutes, she then
told me I should be going down to the welfare place. I didn't tell her
earlier today I already had, I said I would do this tomorrow. The good
thing that she said, and that I had already thought of, was I would then not
need to try and fight maintenance enforcement. Welfare will do that dirty
work for me. I also need to get the maintenance for B upped - he's getting
damn expensive - and get something in place for A. Welfare will do both of
those things, and they will do it faster and more efficiently, and I should
just be able to wait it out. With B's maintenance payments raised and with
something in order for A, bye bye to welfare... I believe I could make it on
that alone (this is assuming something can be changed, and hopefully go for
the max amount) until I can get back in school and working, which I
definitely plan to do, but obviously can't really consider just yet.

So anyways, that brings me to where I am right now. Sure, I feel so tired
of everything, and yes, I do love the jerk, although I do not love the
jerkish things he does. As of now, I've had a lot of time to sit and
think... Where am I? Where should I be? Where do I want to be? How do I
make it work for me, and the kids? Right now, I have it all planned - but
then again, when do plans ever really pan out exactly how you want and like
them to???

He's gone. I made that clear to him on Monday. I don't want or need him
back here, and he can now take some time to decide what he wants. He can
see and do what it takes for him to make his own decisions like a big boy.
If that takes 2 months, fine. If it takes 6 months, fine. If it never
happens, well, at least I will know that, and there's no reason for this
crap to happen. It doesn't do anyone any good at all. Let him go, set him
free. I need it, he needs it. Everyone needs that right now more than
ever. This time, though, it's going to be on MY terms. He's going to have
to prove anything he says, because, quite frankly, I'm not going to buy his
bs stories any more. I'm not going to give him my trust - he's lost it one
time now too many, and trust is something he now has to earn back and he has
to prove he wants and needs. I'm going to play it safe. I am thinking I'll
just lay low and see where things go.

Now, let's just say for argument's sake, he stays gone for oh, 3 months
(keep it simple). He does everything he can to gain and earn and keep
trust... Maybe he drops by to visit with the kids, and even me, maybe has
supper but goes wherever his home may be at the time... He helps put the
kids to bed, maybe we watch some TV, both get tired and he heads off home.
He goes to work every day and doesn't blow money - on stupid things, video
games, booze, drugs, eating out at restaurants every day - just becomes more
responsible in the sensible way... Provides money to help with life - maybe
swings by with some groceries for all of us to have supper and a bag of
diapers... This goes on for some time, things (obviously best case scenario)
seem to be great. He calls when he says he'll call, he shows up when he
says he'll come visit, he'll take the kids to the part when he promises them
that, whatever... Then, I guess, see how it goes... Maybe things will change
and almost be like a new start. Keep in mind, best case scenario... Maybe
consider some individual councilling, maybe try the couples one or maybe
even a family therapist of some sort... Is this kind of expectation
unrealistic? Is it possible for things to be downright horrible, yet saved
somehow?

I just think best case scenario is he pulls his socks up and grows up.
Worst case scenario is he doesn't, but at least we'll be out of it all and
don't have constant **** to dig out of all the time. Middle ground would be
he turns out to be an awesome part time dad - like if we just keep to being
civil and loving and not really together. For now, I said, this is a break.
He said he agreed. I had told him straight up that I am NOT and I will not
be looking for someone else, someone better, someone new - this is the
truth. He told me he would never do that either and that he misses me and
does love me, but right now, things aren't good - I did agree, and that is
one thing I do trust him on.

I do see this is a fairly bad situation, maybe even closer to being bad bad
situation, but... Do you think this *might* stand some chance of turning out
just fine with time? Am I (or even we) approaching this in a way that is
any worse than the way things currently seem to be, and even clearly are?
Am I setting things up for a major disaster or is there that chance that's
still there?

I'm so sorry about whats happening with you at home.
My hope is that it will all sort itself out without
hassel and you will keep that love and affection you
have together. I don't think I can offer any sound
advice, our relationships are based on love, and we
can love in lots of different ways and for different
reasons.

When I was breaking up from long friendship can
be awful enough, but when you have children to
someone its like having a part of yourself go and
leave you.

I remember reading that falling in love is deepest
lasts for about 4 or 5 months, then gradually you
get to know one another for what they are. I think
you can reverse that too, it takes at very least
5 months getting out of love and back into getting
used to yourself again. If you can still keep the
friendship together through that turmoil, I think
it can form a good foundation to build on.

But saying this, that didnt happen with my ex-hus
- no matter how I tried, no matter what I did, and
I can't understand why he didn't have the same
philosophy as me. I mean, if you go out with someone
and have a baby with, you must of liked them, so there
must be something there, sad to say, this does not
happen with all people. A man will fight for custody
and drag you through the dirt rather than pay up if
he loves his cash and doesnt want to see you spending
it. If he or she is particularly vicious, they will
drag your name and your friends the same way and do
what they can rather than see you get up, dust
yourself off and begin again.

Your separation doesn't seem like its revenge based.
You're a great Mom, I have no idea whats going on in
that head of his, maybe its the baby? I hope that
he'll have a turnaround for you, maybe the call of
twinkly lights and barmaids inflatable bras have
soothed a fear of maturity and responsibility?, kinda
'Oh **** I'm gonna end up like me ol Pa!' syndrome?
- this is only temporary - ;/

Although saying that, with B I knew he had a crush
on a woman 10 yrs older than me, and due to work and
social he saw a lot of her. She had 2 grown up children
too. Anyway one night I insisted he take me out and
I knew she'd there. I was about 5 months pregnant.
I clung scared and close to B and nearly shat myself
thinking that I had to tell this other woman to keep her
claws off my man. The bar went quiet, I looked her
straight in the eyes and said ....., right?.

luv

Miri