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#11
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What's fair with my partner?
The only thing I have to add is that you could interchange 'men' and 'women'
and it would be just as valid :-) Well maybe, but my experience is that women are worse than men when it comes to trying "train" their man. As long as they get enough sex, men seem to be a lot easier to satisfy :-) Joelle |
#12
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What's fair with my partner?
"Joelle" wrote in message ... The only thing I have to add is that you could interchange 'men' and 'women' and it would be just as valid :-) Well maybe, but my experience is that women are worse than men when it comes to trying "train" their man. As long as they get enough sex, men seem to be a lot easier to satisfy :-) Joelle And beer and I'll agree LOL |
#13
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What's fair with my partner?
"Tiffany" wrote in message ... Paul Fritz wrote in message ... Darn it Joelle, I agree with every word you said. The only thing I have to add is that you could interchange 'men' and 'women' and it would be just as valid :-) Oh you think so do you? lol Yeah, I think men can get desperate and choose "less then perfect" as well, and figure she'll adapt and it would be equally damaging for a man to bring a woman into the house for 'sleep overs' with the kids there. T |
#14
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What's fair with my partner?
"Paul Fritz" wrote in message ...
Oh, I can see, as far as you're concerned, I'm climbing further and further into my hole of deception. I'm responding with hesitance because the opinions are already there, somewhat strongly, I might add. I feel like I'm putting myself into a position of defense.....but I'm compelled, again, to respond. Do you not think that it's possible to work with a relationship towards understanding each other's needs, desires and expectations? Can it not be so much about changing the person him or herself, but at working towards what both partners need? A relationship is give and take and learning to understand each other. A relationship is never easy. It involves work to reap the rewards....and NO, sex is not the reward I'm speaking of. Sex is a natural extension of a relationship but not the end all and be all. Yeah, well, maybe so, but it seems that every woman I talk to feels that she's had to "train" the guy in her life at some point Yea and my experience is that women who think they can change men end up bitterly disappointed and surprised that an elephant never did turn into a giraff. Not necessarily so. The friends I've spoken to have actually worked towards a better relationship through communication of their wants and needs and expectations. And, by the way, it should work both ways. I know that sounds crazy, but the reality is that if you have certain expectations in a relationship, you have to let your partner know what it is that you expect. Of course and when those non-negotiable expectations (we all have to give and take and some expectations may need to be negotiated) are not met you LOOK ELSEWHERE - do not expect a man - or anyone to be someone they are not to meet your expectations. It's unfair to him and you end up taking it personally and being hurt. Well, if the non-negotiables can't be negotiated, then the couple is at laugerheads and the relationship has to end. A relationship is about give and take and compromise...as long as we don't compromise the very person that we are. After 15 months, we're still experiencing issues and I suppose, in every relationship, stuff always crops up now and again. Whoever expects otherwise is unrealistic. In most cases, one person feels more strongly about an issue than another. If both partners value the relationship, then a compromise can be made. At times one will give a little and at others, the other will give. If both are too stubborn and selfish, then they shouldn't or aren't even capable of being in a relationship. Just because a partner compromises with his partner doesn't necessarily mean he or she is being someone other than him or herself. When I've talked to different women about some of my frustrations with my partner at times, they said that they had some of the same issues. BECAUSE THEY ARE DATING THE WRONG MEN! Really? So you think that in a healthy relationship, there are no frustrations? You think that in a healthy relationship there are no conflicts to be ironed out between mutual respect, discussion and compromise? I'd love to live on your planet. Just because most of the women you know are doing this does not mean it is a good and normal thing. This is a thing women do that cause them pain. They pick the wrong man and then think they can change him. They get so desperate that they will never meet a suitable man that they grab onto the first "okay" man (sometimes he's not even okay) and then try to make him something he's not, and when he doesn't change- he's a jerk and they are hurt because he remained who he always was. Oh, so then if there are conflicts and confrontations, he must be the wrong man? The people you are talking about are both too stubborn to talk through things, work through things with open communication. That's what it comes down to. I've dated a lot before meeting my current partner....some were jerks, and some were nice enough but not what I was looking for. I didn't just grab onto this one. A lot of thought went into it beforehand. If you think that you can foresee every issue that's going to arise in a relationship, I'd have to disagree. It takes a long time to figure out all the workings of a relationship and it takes really good communication, understanding and motivation to keep it going. And, yes, sometimes there is doubt and frustration, feelings of distance and closeness. Anyone who thinks otherwise, well, good luck. You'd instantly take a liking to him. He's personable, loves people and loves to laugh. Actually I tend to be suspicious of those "charming" types. Would you slot everybody with the characteristics of "personable, loves people and loves to laugh" as those "charming" types? Have you been hurt a lot? After being shafted around by assholes enough times, anybody would put up the armour. There's a middle ground between being naive and losing all trust in mankind. I haven't hardened to that degree yet. I've been through enough life experience to roll with the punches and still have a little room left for faith in my heart. Oh, and if you think that I'm referring to being shafted around by a lot of assholes because of poor judgement in my life experiences, actually, I'm not. I was referring to my one separation after 15 years but moreso, after the loss of both of my parents. Those kinds of life experiences have actually built strength of character within me and have not instilled a bitterness and lack of faith in the future. I have to remind him that it costs ME money when he stays at my house on weekends, that I want him to pay for certain things and put more thought into certain things (like birthday celebrations, for instance). Okay you like to nag. He seems to enjoy being nagged. That's what you signed up for. So stop bitching about it. You are never going to stop having to nag him. That's who he is. Either accept it or get out. But stop taking it personally that he is NOT GOING TO CHANGE. That's my point. Put up or shut up or get out. Hmmm...actually, I've never been referred to as a nag by my ex, my kids or my partner. However, I do assert myself at certain times. I WANT this relationship to work....not by changing who he is, but by having him recognize what I need. I wouldn't know if my partner enjoys being nagged. I don't believe I've ever met anybody who does. Furthermore, I may have sounded like I was bitching in my first letter because I was upset, but I don't believe that my successive letters demonstrated bitching at all. Do you think that this discussion is "bitching"? Are you insinuating that I signed up on this newsgroup to nag? After talking about all of this, and even sharing the letters I've received here, he's agreed to help me You don't think it's bizarre that you two are arranging your relationship based on advice from strangers on the internet? Is that the way you see it? Do you think that this discussion began and ended with this newsgroup? If it had, I would have already dumped him. Did you not, perhaps, think about the fact that relationships are about loyalty and sharing? He's the third party here and I wasn't about to keep this from him. I told him I wrote the letter before I got any responses. I was frustrated and sometimes I question myself...Am I justified in my feelings or is it just that my emotions sometimes get in the way. It's about being introspective and self evaluating....so I came to a third party. Doesn't mean I have to agree whole-heartedly....just means I receive other points of view. This communication with the newsgroup was about ME and MY feelings. As for the discretion with my kids, I realize they aren't stupid and what I meant was that we always sleep in clothes and never walk around in underwear. Well I'm not the one that brought up the sleeping arrangements but since you brought it up, I think you are giving a horrible example to your children by bringing a man with whom you have no committment into your house and forcing them to live with them. And you are kidding yourself if you think they don't know exactly what is going on. This man and I have been together every day for the past 15 months. Physical closeness isn't taboo! Do you think that teaching your children about sex is pretending that it doesn't exist??? You talk about "FORCING" them to live with him. Is that the way you see people? Actually, although my older son is usually indifferent, being almost 16, my younger son really gets along well with him and enjoys when he's there. In the beginning, we were very careful not to behave in ways that were offensive to my kids. In the beginning, I wouldn't even let him come into my driveway to pick me up. The first time my younger son saw me lean against my partner on the couch (we were sitting up), he practically freaked out. I knew he wasn't ready....so I toned even that much down. Now he can see us hug while he's standing right there and I feel good about that. He's seeing a warmth in a man and a woman which he didn't experience with his mother and father. This is a boy who is very affectionate and loving and sensitive...and the older one, who has always been less demonstrative, loves when I approach him and hug him. We all need that. So, horrible that my partner is here? Not in my books. I'm not a "flavour of the month" kind of woman. If I gave up on relationships so fast because of the conflicts that arise here and there, you'd have a point. I am the type of person, on the other hand, who takes great care in working things through....WITHOUT having to compromise the person that I am with all my needs, hopes and desires. Honestly, I don't think that the first thing on their mind is what's going on behind my bedroom door. Yarite. Whatever rationalization you make to make it allright in your mind. Because as long as you get a sex life, the kids will be fine. Sounds to me like you could use a sex life!!! I don't know about you, but when I was a kid, I certainly wasn't obsessing over what was going on behind my parents' bedroom door. Oh, and if I had any idea of the fact that they might be engaging in that horrible act, I suppose, I'd be scarred for life? But that's different because they were my parents, right? It seems to me that you're under the impression that sex is more important to me than the emotional well being of my kids. I resent that. When I first separated, I took all the measures to ensure my kids emotional well being. I was told by a professional in the field that I have all the skills that I need to be a good parent. I teach my kids that relationships and physical intimacy are very healthy in the right context. Sex isn't dirty or taboo. It's very healthy when two people are mature and can make a responsible decision. It's ignorance that causes all the problems with sexuality. If you teach your kids that it's horrible and taboo, those are the kids that will be all screwed up about the subject. You make it sound as though I have a different man every month with your attitude and that couldn't be further from the truth!!!!! He's a good person with glitches that have to be smoothed out. Love is accepting a person's glitches. Nobody's perfect. Love is not changing and ironing out your loved one. Love is accepting and being accepted, glitches and all. As long as you think you can iron him out, you will never be happy, and if you continue to think your men need to be changed, you will subject your children to a stream of "good men with glitches" in and out of their home. I should clarify.....There are glitches in certain aspects of our relationship. Excuse me for the lack in forethought before I strung that sentence together. It was a thoughtless statement. Of course he isn't perfect and neither am I. I do take the good with the bad but that doesn't mean that I can't have certain needs met and he can't have his needs met too. There will always be qualities in a person that you like and some that you put up with. Personally, I sincerely believe that the good qualities far outweigh the bad where my partner is concerned. Rhonda Joelle |
#15
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What's fair with my partner?
Do you not think that it's possible to work with a relationship
towards understanding each other's needs, desires and expectations? Yes, but that's not what we are talking about it, as much as you'd like to obfiscate the obvious. You are living with a Mama's Boy and your initial post was hurt that he was still acting like a mama's boy and people are trying to tell you that he is what he is - and you can go off on all the high falootin philisophical dissertations you want, but it doesn't change what you have. Can it not be so much about changing the person him or herself, but at working towards what both partners need But if he needs a mama and you were that for him at first and now you are mad because you want to change the rules, who is the one being unfair? Really? So you think that in a healthy relationship, there are no frustrations? Could you like quote where I said that? .. You think that in a healthy relationship there are no conflicts to be ironed out between mutual respect, discussion and compromise? I'd love to live on your planet. Well on my planet I don't write resumes and make web pages for the men I date. I wouldn't even do that for my own son, cuz not only do I not want to date a mama's boy, I don't want to raise a mama's boy. You are more than welcome to live on my planet, but first you have to wake up and smell the coffee. Oh, so then if there are conflicts and confrontations, he must be the wrong man? No, if he's a mama's boy and you don't want to deal with a mama's boy, he's the wrong man. Would you slot everybody with the characteristics of "personable, loves people and loves to laugh" as those "charming" types? No, but mama's boys with those characteristics tend to be "charming types" That's how they suck you into taking care of them. Have you been hurt a lot? Well you can't love without being hurt, but I think I learned enough from early mistakes to avoid making the big mistakes that cuz the bigger pain. Hmmm...actually, I've never been referred to as a nag by my ex, my kids or my partner. Well if you were telling me what to do as much as you are telling Mama's Boy what to do I'd call you a nag. But you don't ever say that to your mama. Especially if you enjoy her nagging. I wouldn't know if my partner enjoys being nagged. Of course he enjoys it. He depends on it. It reminds him of his mother. You remind him of his mother. That's the attraction. Are you insinuating that I signed up on this newsgroup to nag? Maybe. Nagging's not all bad ya know. We need to do that for each other.You do like to lecture I notice. Do you think that teaching your children about sex is pretending that it doesn't exist??? Do you think teaching children about sex means bringing your lover in to live with them? You talk about "FORCING" them to live with him. Is that the way you see people? No, I just recognize the powerless position of children in this situation. They have no choice over who you drag into their home. my younger son really gets along well with him and enjoys when he's there. Oh great. No wonder you are reluctant to consider this might not be an appropriate relationship. You've got your kids dependent on someone who may or may not stick around. Sounds to me like you could use a sex life!!! Yup. Sex is the answer to everything. you're under the impression that sex is more important to me than the emotional well being of my kids. I resent that Why on earth would you have an emotional reaction to a stranger's opinion of you? Unless it hit a nerve of truth somewhere? I was told by a professional in the field that I have all the skills that I need to be a good parent. You seem overly concerned with affirmation from other people. Does this newsgroup think you are being fair (of course when the majority opinion was dump the chump then you weren't as interested) - does a professional think you are a good parent... Personally, I sincerely believe that the good qualities far outweigh the bad where my partner is concerned. Okey dokey - everything's wonderful. Joelle |
#16
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What's fair with my partner?
"Paul Fritz" wrote in message ...
"Tiffany" wrote in message ... Paul Fritz wrote in message ... Darn it Joelle, I agree with every word you said. The only thing I have to add is that you could interchange 'men' and 'women' and it would be just as valid :-) Oh you think so do you? lol Yeah, I think men can get desperate and choose "less then perfect" as well, and figure she'll adapt and it would be equally damaging for a man to bring a woman into the house for 'sleep overs' with the kids there. You all must be perfect people since you seem to think that it's possible to find the "perfect" partner. As for your idea of "sleepovers" being so damaging for the kids, do you think that the only time this would be acceptable would be if the kids saw you under the alter exchanging vows first? And if that's the case, would you enforce that in your kids when they reach that stage? And if you so choose to make the big decision to cohabit with your partner (through marriage if that would be your inclination), would you just pounce this on your kids suddenly without them having the chance to slowly get used to the idea or would you wait until they too get married....of course, as virgins, because any other way would be horrifying. |
#17
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What's fair with my partner?
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#18
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What's fair with my partner?
Hear that swooshing sound? That is the gist of the thread passing far
over your head "Rhonda" wrote in message om... oaway (Joelle) wrote in message ... The only thing I have to add is that you could interchange 'men' and 'women' and it would be just as valid :-) Well maybe, but my experience is that women are worse than men when it comes to trying "train" their man. As long as they get enough sex, men seem to be a lot easier to satisfy :-) Joelle Is that the kind of man you've dated? Sounds pretty basic to me....more like a dog. Oh, and "training", as mentioned in my post was "facetious"...but, obviously, you took it literally, which would make sense if the men you're used to only need sex to keep them satisfied. Sounds like you've been involved in some pretty deep, involved relationships - NOT. As for the beer, neither myself nor my partner like beer very much so that logic doesn't work either. |
#19
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What's fair with my partner?
"Rhonda" wrote in message om... "Paul Fritz" wrote in message ... "Tiffany" wrote in message ... Paul Fritz wrote in message ... Darn it Joelle, I agree with every word you said. The only thing I have to add is that you could interchange 'men' and 'women' and it would be just as valid :-) Oh you think so do you? lol Yeah, I think men can get desperate and choose "less then perfect" as well, and figure she'll adapt and it would be equally damaging for a man to bring a woman into the house for 'sleep overs' with the kids there. You all must be perfect people since you seem to think that it's possible to find the "perfect" partner. As for your idea of "sleepovers" being so damaging for the kids, do you think that the only time this would be acceptable would be if the kids saw you under the alter exchanging vows first? And if that's the case, would you enforce that in your kids when they reach that stage? And if you so choose to make the big decision to cohabit with your partner (through marriage if that would be your inclination), would you just pounce this on your kids suddenly without them having the chance to slowly get used to the idea or would you wait until they too get married....of course, as virgins, because any other way would be horrifying. And another swooshing sound! And obviously, the guy sleeping over is not the only person in the house damaging the kids. |
#20
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What's fair with my partner?
You all must be perfect people since you seem to think that it's
possible to find the "perfect" partner. You are the one that wants the perfect partner and think you can change someone into that. I'm saying accept a person with their imperfections and if you can't accept them, look elsewhere. I'd say your view of training a man into the perfect partner is the perfectionist view. Joelle |
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