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U.N. rules Canada should ban spanking
"Kane" wrote in message m... On Thu, 9 Oct 2003 17:53:15 -0400, "Ray Drouillard" wrote: It looks like one of those crusaders who google for certain key words and start stirring up the mud. No, actually I've been a serial lurker to this ng for some time now. And I do think it unwise of you to equate your comments and opinions about spanking with "mud," don't you. Which newsgroup? Crossposting is *always* rude. People who don't care about being rude, and who post on purpose to a list of newsgroups in order to start a fight are trolls. Saying you aren't is like spammers who send a "this is not spam" disclaimer to your e-mail box, proving nothing except that they are a spammer *and* a liar both. Some trolls do it for fun... some trolls do it because it is their nature. Being sincere is not an excuse. --Julie |
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U.N. rules Canada should ban spanking
"Michael S. Morris" wrote in message
... Thursday, the 9th of October, 2003 ....to once again try and go around the issue by misquoting and claiming something not in evidence and then try to build an argument upon it. Kane: Basically, Ray, you are a coward. You are afraid to defend your brutal practice of spanking in a larger arena so try to confine it to this small one where you know there will be plenty of supporters. Ray: I don't need to defend it. The practice needs no defence -- though Michael S Morris did a very good job while simultaneously tearing your arguments into tiny little pieces. I was quite impressed, actually. First of all, if it didn't need defending you wouldn't and you have. That nullifies your current claim that it doesn't need defending. Secondly, the sentence you use to try and deny your need to defend "don't need to defend" is defensive. Ray, I don't think I began to tear any arguments up yet--- You may try, It won't fly. I feel in fact that all I really did was stake out a position. Weasel Word Play...not today. Staking "out a position" differs from an "argument" how? You are arguing. Don't be shy. I don't mind. I like good arguments. Let's see some. The stuff you came up with below is lame. Just as the prior "stuff." I am especially embarassed when, Heaven'stobetsyIshouldhopeso. driving around this evening, How many wrecks will it take for you to stop that day dreaming while you drive? Or should we spank you? I got to thinking about some of the things Kane has said, and I realized how much utter hokum and nonsense they are. That was our shame based neurosis from your own childhood cp reshaping your thinking to rationalize your beliefs and actions. The last thing you can do is accuse our parents of not loving you, or of being bad parents....and they weren't of course, and I've no idea if they loved you or not, but that small frightened pain filled and betrayed child still resides within you and cannot let go of the self protection it was taught WITH PAIN and humiliation. It was that "utter hokum and nonsense" remark that tipped me off. I don't consider your position as such. I think it derives from identifiable events and known common human reactions to pain, both physical and psychological. You are spouting nonsense, but it isn't utter and it isn't hokum. It was taught to you and you believe it faithfully as taught. You are a good boy. He did say---did he not? He did NOT say the statement you try and attribute to him below. It was not that limited. I expanded the subject adequately for a reasonable person, not driven into sniveling whining, to understand the broader implications of ALL distraction while learning. ---that science has somehow shown that pain can't teach children anything. I said no such thing. I said that distraction interfers with learning the thing to be learned. Are you going to try and claim that pain isn't a distraction? Tell you what. Assuming you've never had any training in calculus, let's set up a little experiment. You crack the books and at random times I'll swat your ass with a small board. Let's see how well you learn, compared to another calculus ignorant person that is instead assisted when they are stuck with support, information, and paitence by the teacher. Now, the "science" of brain scans or no, Why do I get the feeling you don't really want to know what the brain scan studies show? One of the most interesting to me was the one that showed that in children who had experienced abuse that section of the brain that is the locus for indications of moral choices is black...dead...no neurons firing. Thought provoking and immediately jumped on by the word twisters with "spanking isn't abuse." Well, the human body and brain do not know that. Certainly not a child's body and brain. I would suggest that nearly every one of us has had some experience of doing something really stupid---like putting your hand on a hot burner or touching a "hot" wire or slamming a car door on your hand---and being rewarded for it with an immediate, and possibly longlasting, painful feedback which feedback has taught us never to do that again. Those are called logical consequences. Perfectly natural. No problem, except of course that given the child being young enough you have the responsibility (or not as you see fit) of protecting the child. Keep the child away from the hot stove with barriers and proper supervision until you can teach the child about the dangers. Same goes with electrical outlets. And supervise your too young child around things that slam. By the way, I love your examples.....they are a perfect argument for me to "stake out my position." Let me demonstrate how well pain taught you to avoid a behavior. Ever touched anything hot and burned yourself yet again since the very first experience you had with being burned? Only slammed your fingers in something once, did you? Only been zapped by an electrical current once in your life? If you answered "yes" to any of the above questions you are extremely rare or a very sheltered person that goes nowhere and does nothing. The truth is that if you allow your child to be too "consequenced" by her environment she will either be killed or so inhibited from learning that she will be as disabled from learning more (exploring and experimenting) as her constitution and pain tolerance will allow. Is that your goal? Is so, spanking is a wonderful tool to inhibit the child. I applaud your desire to keep her alive. I abhor your methods as damaging to the child and possibly to society. But most parents have to, or know to, (you are likely one of the "have tos") let their child out little by little so the environment won't overwhelm them. You mistake spanking for supervision. Or you try to substitute one for the other. My most recent case was rolling a riding lawn a couple summers ago, throwing myself off it to get clear, and snapping my left humerus in two as a result. I now have a much healthier respect for the design envelope of a riding mower. If you were three years old would the same example apply? Of course not. You would pull the child off the lawn mower seat and whack her bottom and think you had taught her not to get on the lawn mower. I would lift her gently down and explore with her why mowers are dangerous, discuss how she can ride the toy mower I'm going to buy her, and look for other ways to encourage her climbing and exploring behaviors that are safer. She's obviously, if she can climb, had enough experience with falling and pain to listen to my lesson with some understanding. I don't need to give her MORE pain. Your child will need more lessons, in fact, since nature drives her, compels her, to explore, and you'll have to do YOUR lesson again and again, and she NEVER WILL COME TO YOU FOR HELP WHEN SHE IS FACED WITH A CHOICE of exploring something potentially dangerous. At 38 my daughter felt perfectly comfortable coming to me and asking my opinion of an ethical business question she was confronted with by her company. I DID NOT SOLVE IT FOR HER. I did the same thing I did when she was young. I respected her desire to explore and experiment and acted as consultant and supporter as she did so. She chose the moral and ethically safer path, just as she chose the safer path as child. And it involved no pain. Now had she taken the less moral path I would have given her my own opinion ONCE, and left her to live with the consequences, because she's a big girl now....mentally probably my superior...and can take care of her self. Your path creates the teens you would like to claim are the "undisciplined" when in fact they are the most self disciplined of all. The don't fear their parent....and are tempted to defiance. They love and trust their parent so that bad choices are extremely hard to make. It hurts their hearts to go against their parents. Works far better than a short thought of a pained butt at three with immediately rejection and moving right on to sex, drugs and rock and roll in an effort to blot out the ugly painful parentl....... r r r r r If Kane's claim *really* is that pain blocks learning, It isn't. Had you read more carefully, ....or should I say your neurotic terrified inner child had allowed you....you'd have seen I didn't say that pain blocks learning, as in all learning about something. I said it blocks the learning of the desired skill or ability. It teaches alright, but not the skill. What it blocks is full access to the desired lesson. Enthusiastic focus and determination to learn the desired ability. Did you spank your child to teach them to ride a bicycle? Jeez, I hope not. That same patience and understanding about needing to learn balance and coordination applies absolutely to the lesson of why we don't hit our little sister with the sauce pan. Your own life experience blocks you from seeing that. The examples from your own childhood rarely, if ever, included that understanding and patience, and your being hooked, as I presume your are (correct me if I'm wrong), on the inherent "evil" in humans, requires you to think in terms of punishment. "Disere" the latin root for the world "discipline" and "disciple" has a beautiful meaning when it comes to human learning....it means to "bring out," and that is not what happens when a child who is busy experimenting and exploring (no matter how YOU interpret that behavior) is met with pain from the one person that she should be able to trust as a teacher...a true teacher. Pain does not bring out the ability to ride a bicycle, nor to ponder the moral issues in hitting one's sister, or the empathy that is the basis for the development of conscience. Empathy is retarded by distraction, built by focus on the other person. You can't even get a child to pay attention to YOUR feelings, let alone another's feelings, by the use of pain. Now this conversation may well end if you are one of those that believes that morality is not human based but rule based. I don't follow rules because they are rules and they come from some authority. I follow rules because they have proven to be the wisest choice of all in how I feel if I break them, and how I feel if I keep them. If we all did that there would be need for enforcement, and whackin' away on kids butts. then he has just ruled out all of our common sense and common experience. R R R R, I've ruled out nothing but your neurosis and your lack of common sense. Common sense based on ignorance is not sense, it is just ignorance. How common sense is built is by observing. How it turns into valuable knowledge that can be applied is by never closing the loop....always being open to new interpretations and new views being considered. Consider this.....everything the child does, no matter how YOU might interpret it, is no more or less than an experiment to learn how to live. When you, their assigned guardian and protector, their trusted teacher of how to tie shoelaced, feed themselves, bake a cupcake, think their throwing of objects out of their play pen is defiance and just to make you pick up after them, and you resort to the shocking act of hitting them, they just were betrayed. Do you KNOW why little children throw things out of their playpen or off their highchair tray, again and again and again...ad neauseum? Think about it in learning terms. The answer is here. Whey does a child keep repeating new words over and over and over? What natural phenomena is the child experimenting with in the object throwing? Children are compelled to be practical physicists. They MUST experiment, and it has to be replicated to be believed. And they must do it for themselves. Hitting inhibits that learning. He is probably also at odds with any and every evolutionary biological explanation for pain that I've ever run across. No, only with the ones based on ignorance of learning theory. I'm not against learning from pain. I'm against the deliberate application of pain by (from his point of view) a child's protector. Children get more than enough naturally consequential pain to learn about what does and doesn't cause pain. Why would you want to create an artificial application of pain that to the child is so often impossible to connect to the exploritory behavior they were performing? Are you so insistent on them developing a sense of guilt, shame, fear, about their environment and insistent on them being challenged with the thought that they may in fact be evil creatures deserving torture? A child believes the parenting they get is the parenting they deserve. The parent is all powerful to the child, even in defining who the child is. Consider: A child treated with respect, even when they make mistakes, then would believe they deserve what? Now substitute "pain" for "respect." And either is, for the child, what they will grow to seek for themselves, as it honors the beloved parent. They will do it until they die of old age. A life of self induced pain, or one of self respect. Your choice. The power that parents have awes me, still. Also, think about it for a moment: Whence brain scans "proving" that pain blocks learning? That is not what I said. I said it blocks the learning of the desired task. One can still learn....it just becomes exceedingly difficult and other things, not intended, are learned as well. How good are your math skills? Or writing. What subjects were hard for you in school? Were they taught by your favorite teacher? Did you parent "assist" in your learning with punishments involved with your attempts to learn? Did you feel stupid when they "helped" you? One of the toughest teachers I had was extremely respectful, but still, insisted quietly and respectfully, that one applied themselves. I had flunked algebra twice until him. Both prior teachers were insulting martinets. I aced his class. And he graded hard, very. I learned about learning from him. I picked my teachers with care in college. Aced it too, all of it. And I was barely a C student in highschool. Lousy teachers until the algebra teacher. I mean, I've read Milgram's summary of his psychological experiments in _Obedience to Authority_. Those experiments *simulated* pain in a "victim" in order to observe a subject's reaction to it. That is something of a departure from my position...but let's see if it is worthy of the frightened child that forced that to the surface of your consciousness to avoid my point. And that kind of experimental procedure has long since been declared unethical. Okay. Let's see where this goes. So, I'd say it's pretty obvious that no one in recent history has run experiments subjecting people to pain Wrong. It's common still. All it takes is consent of the subject. Go to your nearest college or university psych department and ask. Or try neurological departments of medical schools. Besides, the question isn't "pain" alone. It's any distraction up to and including pain. in order to test whether or not people (and certainly not kids) can learn under the influence of pain. And I was working, as I pointed out clearly, backward from pain to any distraction. Any distraction changes learning from more easily done to more difficultly done and has unwanted side effects, such as the learning of things that might even interfer with performance of the desired skill. Dr. Thomas Gordon, when a young man, was a military flight instructor. He observed that a lot of young student pilots were flying their aircraft into the ground and dying. He noted also that the instructor's, an a misguided by sincere attempt to save lives, were screaming at the students more and more and calling them more names and insults. Gordon turned that around and developed a supportive approach. His students lived. The others continued to die. Later he counseled parents and eventually wrote a book that is a standard for supportive parenting...that is supportive of the child learning, not being tortured. So, any "brain scan" claims there could be would have to be just wild extrapolation, Nice try. No cigar. As I said. Consent allows for the use of distraction up to and including pain. But distraction alone is sufficient to support my position. Unless you would care to label pain as not being a distraction. making all kinds of assumptions about what causes what and what activity here or there in the brain might mean in terms of learning or not learning something. Well, that usually IS the point of experimenting. Just as children do it. They are trying, no matter what you think they are doing, to find out about the world and how it works. They are, by our adult view, terribly ignorant and clumsy, even doing things we've come to label as "bad," or "evil," "perverse," and even "sinful" but to them, in their ignorance and nature driven compulsion to learn, those actions are not labeled as yet. Again, all one has to do is talk to an older teacher who remembers the days in public school when he had a wooden paddle and the authority to use it if students misbehaved. Guess what? Those were days when he shooting at Columbine, not to mention metal detectors at the entrances to schools, and armed policemen to patrol the halls, were unthinkable. My very favorite. I've seen this come up so many times on the talk.politics.guns website I grow weary of it. You do know that children that were spanked were the ones doing the shooting, did you not? Check out all the school shootings in recent years. These weren't "unspanked" children. Do you know how far back kids were walking into classrooms and shooting people? Try the 30's. The shooting at Columbine was not caused by the failure to spank. It was caused by the failure to inculcate a conscience. That is the product of pain based parenting, whether it is physically based, or psychologically based. My take on the boys that did the shooting was more of the psychologically based, but I doubt anyone is going to get out of the families of the boys how they were parented. I've certainly seen more than enough mental illness in teens whose histories I did have access to to tell you that pain based parenting...even when done with cold precision.... results in less conscience and morals, not more. You are spouting like a Scientologist. "One panel reads: *Since psychiatrists and psychologists entered the classroom in the 1960s, SAT scores have plummeted.* A huge line graph beside this statement illustrates the dramatic plunge. And yet, what do these two things have to do with each other? And what do they mean *since psychiatrists entered the classroom* anyway? The panel goes on to list shocking, but uncited, statistics about the dire state of American education: A 1999 study showed that 10% of college graduates could not read the back of a cereal box. It drums up experts with fancy-sounding pedigrees to testify on their behalf: *Dr. Fred A. Baughman Jr., a pediatric neurologist and Fellow of the Academy of Neurology, says ADHD and other childhood psychiatric disorders and *learning disabilities* are *inventions, contrivances,* and *100% fraud.** Pictures of child killers like Eric Harris have captions like, *Took Prozac prior to killing 14 of his classmates.* " The lack of the paddle hasn't increased the school shootings. In fact school shootings are down, and have been for years. Even the year of the Columbine shootings school was still the safest place for children. And I say that with my teeth gritted as I am a dedicated homeschooling champion. Except for the wonder of incongruence, California, it is consistently the states WITH school house paddling that has the most child perps of shootings. I'm damned if can explain California, but then who can? smile You don't have your facts Mike. You come up with speculations you haven't researched adequately to use them as support for the position you have staked out. Keep trying. Mike Morris ) It's been fun Mike. And no, I'm not a troll. If you haven't figured that out by now, well, tough ****. Kane |
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U.N. rules Canada should ban spanking
"Kane" wrote in message ... [] You have developed a strawman ("no one likes trolls"). And you have failed to establish that I am a troll and I am here just to start a fight. I give this evidence that I am not here for either: I am passionate about and dedicated to exposing the pointlessness, the wrong thinking, and perpetration of pain and humiliation on children with the misleading and false name of "discipline." I would find your protestations of passion and sincerity much more convincing if you has posted to just one group. I'm not ruling out the possibility that you are sincere. Perhaps you are simply new to Usenet and do not realize that you have posted your comments to groups with diametrically opposed views. Perhaps you do not realize the participants of these groups are virtually guaranteed to engage in an acrimonious interchange. If you truly wish a productive debate on the subject that is of such interest to you, you will avoid cross-posting. (BTW, it would also be conducive to a more fruitful conversation if you refrained from using such highly emotional language.) I have no objections at all to discussing this topic if the discussion is posted to only one newsgroup. If you feel too outnumbered on mehsc, then suggest another group where you will be more comfortable and I will come to discuss it with you there. If you insist on cross-posting now that I have explained its significance, I will consider that evidence that your goal is strife rather than intelligent debate. Jayne |
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U.N. rules Canada should ban spanking
On 10 Oct 2003, Kane wrote: "Michael S. Morris" wrote Staking "out a position" differs from an "argument" how? Much as "debate" differs from "fight," I suspect. I am especially embarassed when, Heaven'stobetsyIshouldhopeso. driving around this evening, How many wrecks will it take for you to stop that day dreaming while you drive? Or should we spank you? Is this the level of debate that can be expected by those who wish to debate you? Now, the "science" of brain scans or no, Why do I get the feeling you don't really want to know what the brain scan studies show? One of the most interesting to me was the one that showed that in children who had experienced abuse that section of the brain that is the locus for indications of moral choices is black...dead...no neurons firing. Thought provoking and immediately jumped on by the word twisters with "spanking isn't abuse." It's all fine and dandy for you to consider spanking to be abuse, but,but...if the researchers didn't include the type/frequency of spanking that most children receive to be abuse, then it's just downright dishonest for you to say that what these researchers concluded has anything to do with spanking. |
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U.N. rules Canada should ban spanking
On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 23:57:54 -0500, Jon Houts
wrote: On 10 Oct 2003, Kane wrote: "Ray Drouillard" wrote "Kane" wrote "Ray Drouillard" wrote: I wonder if Kane has a standard rant that is saved to his or her hard drive. I wonder what made YOU think of that particular tactic though? I never have. The fact is, there is one troll who uses that tactic, and another who I strongly suspect uses that tactic. Both currently occupy my killfile. I killfile very few people, but some sound like broken records and tend to splatter garbage all over the place. For the sake of cleanliness, I have chosen to ignore their posts. Do I appear to be either? Do they continue the debate? I don't abuse them. Legally you may not. It is legal to spank a child in all 50 states if you are they legal caregiver, guardian, parent. What about Minnesota? Thank you again sir. You are correct. I have read the law. It is very shakey. I am unaware of case law pertaining. Do you know of any? It might help settle my questions about Minnesota law. http://www.nospank.net/n-g02.htm SUSAN H. BITENSKY points out that it's a well kept secret. Since she is, I believe, a professor of law, I'd like very much to see her say more (she simply said it against the law, no argument) before I buy it. But claiming only one state isn't exactly a winning argument. It's a 50th of an argument, if you get my meaning. http://www.law.msu.edu/faculty/bitensky/i_h.pdf If you actually read the pdf file you will see that it doesn't say parents may not spank. In fact it outlines wherein they may do so. One could extrapolate, very possibly if they stretched really hard, that giving the outline of when and why there might be some NO and NOT. But that isn't the case in the cited section. As I said. I'm not decided on this yet. I would like it to, for debate sake, but I would HATE it to for parent and child's sake. The only really kind and gentle parent will be one that lovingly endorses, commits, and learns for him or herself how to parent gently. A parent forced into not spanking, by law, will simply devise other punishments, and cruel those will be. I've seen them. I've seen what they can do. Given the two as choices (and there are more that two of course), spanking or psychological abuse, I'd go for spanking as the lessor of two evils. That's not an endorsement of cp. Cp runs a very close second to pa for damanging human beings. Uncharacteristically, I am not for laws against spanking. I am for laws against assault, whether adult or child. If I hit, for instance, your child with the exact same intent you would (calling it "spanking to teach" of course to ease my conscience) I would be charged with assault and arrested. You would not. I do not want such laws. I want people of good conscience to continue these debates with those that spank. but,but... Try Rislone (TM) Jon Kane |
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U.N. rules Canada should ban spanking
On Thu, 9 Oct 2003 23:09:38 -0500, Jon Houts
wrote: On 9 Oct 2003, Kane wrote: "Ray Drouillard" wrote: It looks like one of those crusaders who google for certain key words and start stirring up the mud. No, actually I've been a serial lurker to this ng for some time now. I wonder if Kane has a standard rant that is saved to his or her hard drive. I wonder what made YOU think of that particular tactic though? I never have. If you *really* were a "serial lurker" in meh-sc, you'd know why he thought that. No, actually I wouldn't. Serial lurkers are, by virtue of being "serial," not privy to everything that is posted. Didn't you know that? Still don't want to discuss spanking, I take it? Makes me think you're lying about your ng habits. I don't particular care what you think when I know you are wrong. Unless it damages a child in some why. Care to discuss spanking? but,but... Maybe some Castrol (tm) Jon Kane |
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| U.N. rules Canada should ban spanking
It's pronounced nothing like the former.
As in "Raising Cane" but he has also gone by Kane9 Basically, Ray, you are a coward. You are afraid to defend your brutal practice of spanking in a larger arena so try to confine it to this small one where you know there will be plenty of supporters. The MRI guy posted one short message asking you to cite your references. You respond WITHOUT citing your sources and throw this little 12 year old temper tantrum response? Cowardice over your ignorance, and cowardice in child rearing practices. Where did he say a darn thing about child rearing? You think EVERYBODY is ignorant except you. It looks more like he just didn't like your MISUSE of so-called information from his field of research. I wonder if he saw you get laughed out for trying the old "I asked my [unnamed] psychiatrist friend to read your messages and they diagnosed you as.." thing? Another way you attempted to MISUSE or coopt some supposed scientific authority. Ray, Google the archive of this newsgroup for "Telemetric" and notice that one was tried and laughed out two different times. If Kane ever provides and specific citations, watch to see if it equates spanking to "beating". Spankers are doomed, Ray. If we don't stop it in this generation we will in the next. If you don't volunteer to learn better eventually the cure that even I don't want will come into play. The law will stop you. It's interesting to see you acknowledge that you do NOT have the constituency you'd like for your totalitarian wish to IMPOSE anti-spanking. So tell us, Ray, why do little children defy their parents? Trick question without giving an age? Different issues at different stages. Actually I also saw something on educational TV about how repeated extreme traumas can rewire the brain, inhibit growth of certain centers, etc. but if spanking is traumatic enough to cause this, you must remember that many children seem to turn lots of small things into big traumas. Do you think badly behaved kids who demand that checkout aisle candy bar and then throw a COW of a temper tantrum.. Is that also traumatic enough to cause "damage" if it goes that far? Some kids learn no discipline and are nasty little manipulators. Parents who allow or reward this may be doing the kid a disservice. And spare me the textbook parent skills "take them out of the store" answer with a half hour invested in a full grocery cart. Forget leaving the bratty kid sitting in the car stewing to themself. (illegal) Some other kids act like big time drama queens, exaggerated pathos. I've seen kids throw giant temper tantrums over the stupidest crap, obviously the manipulation WORKED before. I was oldest of four, and we had empathy and sympathy for each other all the time, BUT when we recognized a sibling was pouring on the pathos, we'd all pour on fake dramatic sympathy to ridicule the one who started it. They'd often crack a smile, realize how dumb it was and we'd all end up laughing our butts off together. If we got spanked, on the sly we would be sarcastic about spankings through blue jeans. "What're ya trying to do, tickle me?" we'd wisper among us. The token was understood, however. If the trauma of spanking causes brain problems, then what about other traumas like needle vaccinations, falling down, playground fights, or CPS child removal? Healthy Kids normally have many "owies" worse than spanking. Please go back to calling all spanking "beating" because most of the general public will recognize immediately what kooks you anti-spanking zealots are. |
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| U.N. rules Canada should ban spanking
Why would the UN single out Canada as needing a ban on spanking?
As physical discipline goes, half the world is ten times worse! Caning and strapping are still used in MANY places. No wonder they can't act to prevent real death, rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. Just like Child Protection agencies. |
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U.N. rules Canada should ban spanking
Crossposting complaints
1. Most FAQ's imply that TELLING people not to flame is as bad as flaming itself. Doesn't that apply to the crossposting ""issue"" as well? 2. All of the newsgroups I see listed SEEM to all be legit places for this thread about the UN ruling Canada should bad spanking. Germain to all newsgroups I'm seeing listed. 3. If crossposting is a no-no, then WHY do newsgroups even HAVE facilities for crossposting? Conversely, When would it ever BE appropriate to cross post to several newsgroups where the subject would seem to be germain? 4. Are there technical problems with this thread that cause fragmentation? A message from the MRI guy is missing from the incarnation I'm reading now. 5. How can we decide where to shift this entire thread without fragmentation? I hereby nominate alt.parenting.spanking if LaVonne will allow. |
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U.N. rules Canada should ban spanking
"Julie Pascal" wrote in message ... Which newsgroup? Crossposting is *always* rude. I'm sorry, Julie, but that is not correct. Crossposting is and has always been part of the design of Usenet. It was designed that way to allow discussions (and even arguments) to happen between groups. Using that design, in and of itself, rude. It is using the Usenet as it was designed to be used. You may not like it. You may not like the groups to which he posted. That does not make his behavior rude either. If the thread is offensive to you (for any reason).... well, that's what filters are for. If you're using MS Outlook Express, you can simply click on Ignore Thread. If he had picked a gazillion unrelated ngs and the thread had little to do with any of the ngs' themes, then you would have a point. This is not the case here. The fact that the groups included may (or may not) have diametrically opposed viewpoints is also irrelevant. If people here only want a select viewpoint to be included in the conversations, then they are using the wrong medium. They should be making use of invitation-only email lists. |
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