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#1
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Cow's Milk Production Question - semi OT
I need help finding some info, and googling isn't working because I don't
know what to ask Google. Okay, on my Yahoo Group that I participate in of moms with babies the same age as mine (12 months), we were having a discussion yesterday about introducing the kidlets to cows milk. One of the Moms was talking about 'how important' cows milk is nutritionally to babies that have weaned, blah blah blah. I said to her that humans aren't designed to drink cows milk, you know, human milk for human babies, cows milk is for baby cows. She said to me something to the effect that we MUST be supposed to drink cows milk, otherwise why would they make so much excess milk that their calves don't need. I replied that I'm sure cows produce so much milk only because of the early weaning of the calves, endless antibiotics and hormones given to the cows to keep them producing so much milk, and the not natural diet that they are fed to stimulate milk production. Am I right? I'm pretty sure I read this somewhere, but can't remember where, and I can't find anything to back me up. Somehow I have a feeling that I might have read it in Milk, Money and Madness, but I don't know. Can anyone help me with some cites?? Or tell me that I'm way off if I am. Thanks. Tracey in CT |
#2
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Cow's Milk Production Question - semi OT
On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 23:10:17 +0000, Tracey wrote:
I need help finding some info, and googling isn't working because I don't know what to ask Google. Okay, on my Yahoo Group that I participate in of moms with babies the same age as mine (12 months), we were having a discussion yesterday about introducing the kidlets to cows milk. One of the Moms was talking about 'how important' cows milk is nutritionally to babies that have weaned, blah blah blah. I said to her that humans aren't designed to drink cows milk, you know, human milk for human babies, cows milk is for baby cows. She said to me something to the effect that we MUST be supposed to drink cows milk, otherwise why would they make so much excess milk that their calves don't need. I replied that I'm sure cows produce so much milk only because of the early weaning of the calves, endless antibiotics and hormones given to the cows to keep them producing so much milk, and the not natural diet that they are fed to stimulate milk production. Am I right? I'm pretty sure I read this somewhere, but can't remember where, and I can't find anything to back me up. Somehow I have a feeling that I might have read it in Milk, Money and Madness, but I don't know. Can anyone help me with some cites?? Or tell me that I'm way off if I am. Thanks. Tracey in CT I have no references for you, but as far as I understand it, whatever else might be in the mix, cows basically produce milk according to the principle of supply and demand (as humans do). I give DS organic milk which is produced without hormones etc... and quite a few people around here have "house cows" who provide them with milk without any of the tricks of the dairy trade. I would also guess that cows have become extraodinary mild producers through centuries of domestication and controlled breeding. This mother you speak of seems to have very skewed logic. If the capacity for excess milk production means we ought to drink it, then we should be drinking all manner of mammal milk (and to express a culturally informed view point - yuck!). Cows milk is nutritionally useful, but not essential. It is not, for instance, a common element of many Asian diets and people with lactose allergies can get along without it, etc... Hope that helps Libby |
#3
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Cow's Milk Production Question - semi OT
Hi - Cow's produce so much milk because they've been bred to do so for centuries. However, that doesn't make cow's milk good for babies! And too much of it isn't good for most people. Visit my web site and look for the link to Don Wiss' "no milk" page. He's got links to excellent web sites, several of which explain *exactly* why cow's milk isn't good for you. (Its early introduction is linked to various autoimmune diseases, for example.) I hope this helps, --Beth Kevles http://web.mit.edu/kevles/www/nomilk.html -- a page for the milk-allergic Disclaimer: Nothing in this message should be construed as medical advice. Please consult with your own medical practicioner. NOTE: No email is read at my MIT address. Use the AOL one if you would like me to reply. |
#4
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Cow's Milk Production Question - semi OT
"Beth Kevles" wrote in message ... Hi - Cow's produce so much milk because they've been bred to do so for centuries. However, that doesn't make cow's milk good for babies! And too much of it isn't good for most people. Visit my web site and look for the link to Don Wiss' "no milk" page. He's got links to excellent web sites, several of which explain *exactly* why cow's milk isn't good for you. (Its early introduction is linked to various autoimmune diseases, for example.) Thanks Beth, I've already been to the "no milk" page, and I did find some stuff that I was looking for there. Mostly I was looking for (and did find on another site) information about WHY cows produce so much milk...and I was right, hormones, artificial insemination, lots of milking. Tracey |
#5
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Cow's Milk Production Question - semi OT
"Libby Macdonald" wrote in message I have no references for you, but as far as I understand it, whatever else might be in the mix, cows basically produce milk according to the principle of supply and demand (as humans do). LOL, thats the one thing I forgot about. Just like with humans, you pump a lot, they make more milk. How did I forget that? :-P Thanks. Tracey |
#6
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Cow's Milk Production Question - semi OT
"Tracey" wrote in message om... "Libby Macdonald" wrote in message I have no references for you, but as far as I understand it, whatever else might be in the mix, cows basically produce milk according to the principle of supply and demand (as humans do). LOL, thats the one thing I forgot about. Just like with humans, you pump a lot, they make more milk. How did I forget that? :-P Well, yes and no. Some cows, like some women, make more milk by their nature. Some breeds of cows make more milk (Holstein); some make more fat (Jersey, Guernsey). The Holstein breed especially has been bred to overproduced by spectacular amounts. Some breeds of cattle give no more than a quart a *day*. Obviously such a breed could not be expected to feed their own calves, and humans too! But of course, if a high-producing Holstein is not milked empty every milking, she will begin to produce less, and less, until she produces no more than a calf would take. The OP's friend was merely ignorant. That's easy enough to fix. --angela |
#7
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Cow's Milk Production Question - semi OT
"Tracey" wrote in message . com... I need help finding some info, and googling isn't working because I don't know what to ask Google. Okay, on my Yahoo Group that I participate in of moms with babies the same age as mine (12 months), we were having a discussion yesterday about introducing the kidlets to cows milk. One of the Moms was talking about 'how important' cows milk is nutritionally to babies that have weaned, blah blah blah. I said to her that humans aren't designed to drink cows milk, you know, human milk for human babies, cows milk is for baby cows. She said to me something to the effect that we MUST be supposed to drink cows milk, otherwise why would they make so much excess milk that their calves don't need. I replied that I'm sure cows produce so much milk only because of the early weaning of the calves, endless antibiotics and hormones given to the cows to keep them producing so much milk, and the not natural diet that they are fed to stimulate milk production. Am I right? I'm pretty sure I read this somewhere, but can't remember where, and I can't find anything to back me up. Somehow I have a feeling that I might have read it in Milk, Money and Madness, but I don't know. Can anyone help me with some cites?? Or tell me that I'm way off if I am. Thanks. Tracey in CT While I agree with you that cows do not make lots of milk just for our benefit and too much isnt good nutrition for human babies, as a farmer and professional working in the field of agricultural science, I do find your thoughts on why cows produce so much milk a bit different to my experience. In Australia, antiobiotics are used rarely because the milk cannot be sold until it is completely free of the system - this is a major hassle for the farmer and most find it is better not to use them unless absolutely necessary so I think it is not a common thing. I dont know anyone that uses growth hormones at all as there is almost no market for any livestock that have been treated with them at any point in their life. Not all of our dairy herds use ai but certainly some do so there is some use of hormones to induce cycling. We have quality assurance systems in place to track this sort of thing and audit it - and these are getting more strict all the time. Most cows in Australia are grass fed - beef cattle are primarily grass-fed, dairy cows would have some grain/silage supplementation to help meet their higher energy demand. It depends on how you define "a natural diet" but I think grass, hay and grain could be regarded as quite natural. Quite simply, cows of most commercial dairying breeds have been selected for high milk production - nothing complicated about it - over centuries, we have bred from the cows with the highest milk production to the point where it is a very large amount. For beef breeds or rare breeds, the milk production is much more in tune with the needs of the calf. Dairy cows are milked at least twice daily (sometimes 3 times) and fed to maintain that production - a case of very efficient supply and demand. The ones that dont meet the standard are culled. Some people may have ethical concerns over this but in my experience, there is no big conspiracy to sell food of a poor quality. Dairy products do have a role in a balanced diet for many people - not to say we cant point out to people that cows milk is *not* naturally intended for babies and that there arent valid alternatives as the babies grow up and require a wider variety of foods. BTW, I am not a dairy farmer - we grow wool, beef and grain. However, I am involved in plant breeding and it is amazing how some people get worried that what we do is really more complex and dangerous than it is. We use the same selective breeding techniques that humans have used for many centuries (albeit a bit more sophisticated) - no high-tech genetic engineering at all. OK - lecture over and good luck with getting your alternative pov regarding cows milk across to others - I admit that I also find the other Mum's logic very strange. Cows produce lots of milk because we have made them do it, nothing to do with what nature intended. cheers Leah Lane |
#8
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Cow's Milk Production Question - semi OT
"A & L Lane" lonewood @ telstra . com wrote in message ... While I agree with you that cows do not make lots of milk just for our benefit and too much isnt good nutrition for human babies, as a farmer and professional working in the field of agricultural science, I do find your thoughts on why cows produce so much milk a bit different to my experience. Thank you very much for you informative response. I wonder how different things are because you are in Australia vs. the US? Interesting and informative...I will pass info along to my friend. Tracey |
#9
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Cow's Milk Production Question - semi OT
"Tracey" wrote in message m... "A & L Lane" lonewood @ telstra . com wrote in message ... While I agree with you that cows do not make lots of milk just for our benefit and too much isnt good nutrition for human babies, as a farmer and professional working in the field of agricultural science, I do find your thoughts on why cows produce so much milk a bit different to my experience. Thank you very much for you informative response. I wonder how different things are because you are in Australia vs. the US? Interesting and informative...I will pass info along to my friend. Well, in the US, a great many dairy cows never see a blade of green grass once they get into production - they live in lots, eat hay, silage and grain, and generally experience nothing like a "natural" bovine existence. This may well contribute to increased rates of infection, I don't know. This is not to say that smaller farms don't have pastures for their cattle. Just that many cattle in the US are not pastured nor grass-fed. --angela |
#10
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Cow's Milk Production Question - semi OT
That was an extremely interesting post. Thank you for sharing it! I doubt
that things are quite the same here in the US from what I have seen (there's a dairy farm close to my house that gives tours and it's very disconcerting!). I enjoyed reading your post, though. Thanks! CY "A & L Lane" lonewood @ telstra . com wrote in message ... "Tracey" wrote in message . com... I need help finding some info, and googling isn't working because I don't know what to ask Google. Okay, on my Yahoo Group that I participate in of moms with babies the same age as mine (12 months), we were having a discussion yesterday about introducing the kidlets to cows milk. One of the Moms was talking about 'how important' cows milk is nutritionally to babies that have weaned, blah blah blah. I said to her that humans aren't designed to drink cows milk, you know, human milk for human babies, cows milk is for baby cows. She said to me something to the effect that we MUST be supposed to drink cows milk, otherwise why would they make so much excess milk that their calves don't need. I replied that I'm sure cows produce so much milk only because of the early weaning of the calves, endless antibiotics and hormones given to the cows to keep them producing so much milk, and the not natural diet that they are fed to stimulate milk production. Am I right? I'm pretty sure I read this somewhere, but can't remember where, and I can't find anything to back me up. Somehow I have a feeling that I might have read it in Milk, Money and Madness, but I don't know. Can anyone help me with some cites?? Or tell me that I'm way off if I am. Thanks. Tracey in CT While I agree with you that cows do not make lots of milk just for our benefit and too much isnt good nutrition for human babies, as a farmer and professional working in the field of agricultural science, I do find your thoughts on why cows produce so much milk a bit different to my experience. In Australia, antiobiotics are used rarely because the milk cannot be sold until it is completely free of the system - this is a major hassle for the farmer and most find it is better not to use them unless absolutely necessary so I think it is not a common thing. I dont know anyone that uses growth hormones at all as there is almost no market for any livestock that have been treated with them at any point in their life. Not all of our dairy herds use ai but certainly some do so there is some use of hormones to induce cycling. We have quality assurance systems in place to track this sort of thing and audit it - and these are getting more strict all the time. Most cows in Australia are grass fed - beef cattle are primarily grass-fed, dairy cows would have some grain/silage supplementation to help meet their higher energy demand. It depends on how you define "a natural diet" but I think grass, hay and grain could be regarded as quite natural. Quite simply, cows of most commercial dairying breeds have been selected for high milk production - nothing complicated about it - over centuries, we have bred from the cows with the highest milk production to the point where it is a very large amount. For beef breeds or rare breeds, the milk production is much more in tune with the needs of the calf. Dairy cows are milked at least twice daily (sometimes 3 times) and fed to maintain that production - a case of very efficient supply and demand. The ones that dont meet the standard are culled. Some people may have ethical concerns over this but in my experience, there is no big conspiracy to sell food of a poor quality. Dairy products do have a role in a balanced diet for many people - not to say we cant point out to people that cows milk is *not* naturally intended for babies and that there arent valid alternatives as the babies grow up and require a wider variety of foods. BTW, I am not a dairy farmer - we grow wool, beef and grain. However, I am involved in plant breeding and it is amazing how some people get worried that what we do is really more complex and dangerous than it is. We use the same selective breeding techniques that humans have used for many centuries (albeit a bit more sophisticated) - no high-tech genetic engineering at all. OK - lecture over and good luck with getting your alternative pov regarding cows milk across to others - I admit that I also find the other Mum's logic very strange. Cows produce lots of milk because we have made them do it, nothing to do with what nature intended. cheers Leah Lane |
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