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Help. Need some advice...Please.



 
 
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  #1  
Old April 8th 05, 03:48 AM
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Default Help. Need some advice...Please.

I am having some trouble with my wife. We have two boys, one is
2 months old and the other is 19 months. I work and my wife stays at
home. Lately my older son has been whinning and crying. He does this
with her, but not as much with me. It's driving my wife nuts and now
she wants to sent him to day care part time. She wants to enroll him
in a pre school from 9am to 3pm, 5 days a week. It costs about $500 a
month. She says it will be good for him because he is bore at home and
it will teach him how to behave. My opinion is that my wife needs to
teach or discipline him so that she can manage the day taking care of
the baby and him without all the whinning and tantrums. I really don't
want a day care worker to teach my son how to behave, I think it's the
parent's job. I would like to wait until he is 3 years old and potty
train before sending him to a pre school program and only for 1 1/2
hours twice a week. At 4 to 5 years, to pre school for 2 1/2 hours
three times a week.

My wife argues that it's in my sons best interest to send him to day
care. I don't agree and think that her reason is because she's having
a real tough time taking care of an infant (waking up in the middle of
the night) and a 19 month old all by herself. It's alot of work for
her and she's not getting enough sleep. But she insists that's not her
motivation for wanting daycare.

Thinking that her real reason is the tough work taking care of the
kids, I have been trying to help her by taking care of both the kids
when I get off from work, usually around 5:30pm until they go to sleep
at 9-10pm. I also feed the baby in the morning before I go to work
around 6 am. In addition we buy take out food everyday so she doesn't
have to cook, and I do all the chores, ie vacuuming, dishes (when I'm
home), mowing the lawn, and bathrooms. She basically takes care of the
kids when I'm doing the chores and am at work and she does the dishes
while I'm away and the laundry for everbody. She also wakes up in the
middle of the night to feed the 2 month old. Anyway, this hasn't stop
her from pushing daycare.

Is it really such a good idea to send a 19 month old to daycare monday
thru friday from 9am to 3pm? If it's really in the best interest of
the kid, I don't mind spending $500 a month, but then what happens when
the 2 month old gets to that age. Then it'll be $1000 a month. With
just my income and me not wanting to work more than 40 hours, it would
be very tough financially.

What do you guys think? Any advice or suggestion?

Thanks.

  #3  
Old April 8th 05, 12:25 PM
Tai
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wrote:


Is it really such a good idea to send a 19 month old to daycare monday
thru friday from 9am to 3pm? If it's really in the best interest of
the kid, I don't mind spending $500 a month, but then what happens
when the 2 month old gets to that age. Then it'll be $1000 a month.
With just my income and me not wanting to work more than 40 hours, it
would be very tough financially.

What do you guys think? Any advice or suggestion?


I have similar age gap between my eldest two children and it was pretty
overwhelming for a time. Possibly as long as a year but definitely for the
first 6 months or so until the second bub was sleeping through the night. I
think a 19 month old would probably enjoy spending a day or two a week at
daycare, especially as 9am to 3pm aren't long hours and your wife would be
able to sleep while your baby napped and get a bit of rest during the day.
With the proviso that the daycare is good quality and your son settles in
well, etc. I probably wouldn't go for 5 days, though, unless your wife is at
risk for post-natal depression.

I wouldn't argue with your wife about *why* a bit of respite from each other
would be a good idea but it does sound like your wife might be able to cope
better if she gets some more rest. She may (wrongly) be feeling that she's
inadequate as a mother when really the problem is that no one is a good
parent if sleep-deprived.

Does your wife have a network of friends with similarly aged children with
whom she can arrange playdates? Any grandparents who'd love to babysit for
a few hours a couple of times a week?

What about the cost of hiring a regular babysitter to come in and take your
oldest boy out for a couple of hours? At this stage the reciprocal nature of
playdates might be a bit much for your wife while your baby is so young so I
would look for other *regularly scheduled* solutions that your son would
enjoy but that gave your wife a chance to catch her breath long enough to
enjoy relating to him again. And vice versa.

You do know this is a temporary situation, don't you? It will get better! I
do think it would be a good idea for her to speak to a sympathetic doctor
who is well-used to mothers of young children.

Tai


  #4  
Old April 8th 05, 12:28 PM
bizby40
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wrote in message
ups.com...
I am having some trouble with my wife. We have two boys, one is
2 months old and the other is 19 months. I work and my wife stays at
home. Lately my older son has been whinning and crying. He does this
with her, but not as much with me. It's driving my wife nuts and now
she wants to sent him to day care part time. She wants to enroll him
in a pre school from 9am to 3pm, 5 days a week. It costs about $500 a
month. She says it will be good for him because he is bore at home and
it will teach him how to behave. My opinion is that my wife needs to
teach or discipline him so that she can manage the day taking care of
the baby and him without all the whinning and tantrums. I really don't
want a day care worker to teach my son how to behave, I think it's the
parent's job.


When my second child was born, I was way overwhelmed. He was
actually a very good and easy-going baby, but my daughter, 2y9m old,
was *very* clingy and whiny and in need of massive amounts of
attention. It got bad enough that I went to a few "under 5s" counseling
sessions. I can't say that they helped much except to convince me
that jealousy really was the underlying cause of her behavior problems.
I hadn't thought so since she wasn't acting out against the baby. How
bad did it get? Well, she took to peeing on her floor if she was mad
at me. And once or twice she completely trashed her room. I was
really at my wits end.

I'm telling you this because it's easy to think "hundreds of millions of
people all over the world have more than one kid and have no problems
with it, why can't I (or she) deal with it?" So, I want you to know that
it isn't just your wife, or her lack of discipline or whatever. Bringing
home a new baby can cause *major* problems for the older child,
and of course, for their care giver(s).

Also, you mention that he's whinier with your wife than with you.
That too is very common. Children are very often at their worst
with their primary caregiver. Not necessarily because she is too
lax with him, but simply because he is most comfortable with her.
He trusts her enough to fall apart in front of her. Strange, but true.

I would like to wait until he is 3 years old and potty
train before sending him to a pre school program and only for 1 1/2
hours twice a week. At 4 to 5 years, to pre school for 2 1/2 hours
three times a week.


This paragraph struck me as very controlling. It's one thing to say,
"Wait until he's potty trained." It's another to try to dictate years in
advance how often and for how long he'll go.

My wife argues that it's in my sons best interest to send him to day
care. I don't agree and think that her reason is because she's having
a real tough time taking care of an infant (waking up in the middle of
the night) and a 19 month old all by herself. It's alot of work for
her and she's not getting enough sleep. But she insists that's not her
motivation for wanting daycare.

Thinking that her real reason is the tough work taking care of the
kids, I have been trying to help her by taking care of both the kids
when I get off from work, usually around 5:30pm until they go to sleep
at 9-10pm. I also feed the baby in the morning before I go to work
around 6 am. In addition we buy take out food everyday so she doesn't
have to cook, and I do all the chores, ie vacuuming, dishes (when I'm
home), mowing the lawn, and bathrooms. She basically takes care of the
kids when I'm doing the chores and am at work and she does the dishes
while I'm away and the laundry for everbody. She also wakes up in the
middle of the night to feed the 2 month old. Anyway, this hasn't stop
her from pushing daycare.


It's great that you are helping out. You said the baby is only 2 months
old. As the weeks go on, he'll get on a better schedule, and she'll get
her routines down better, and be able to assume more of the load again.
Remember that in addition to caring for the two all day and interrupting
her sleep schedule at night, she's also been recovering her health and
strength after the pregnancy and birth of a child. She *is* pretty
exhausted right now, and it's completely understandable.

Is it really such a good idea to send a 19 month old to daycare monday
thru friday from 9am to 3pm? If it's really in the best interest of
the kid, I don't mind spending $500 a month, but then what happens when
the 2 month old gets to that age. Then it'll be $1000 a month. With
just my income and me not wanting to work more than 40 hours, it would
be very tough financially.


I don't think there is any reason to send a child this age to daycare.
Perhaps instead of just nixing the idea outright, you can find alternatives.
One idea might be to have a mother's helper come a couple of times
a week. She could perhaps watch the baby while your wife had
quality time with your older son, which might help offset some of
his jealousy and whining. Or maybe you can find a playgroup.
Or can sign your older son up for a toddler gym class or something.

Encourage your wife to get together with other mothers as much
as possible. Just getting out of the house will be a big relief for
her.

What do you guys think? Any advice or suggestion?


Understand that things will get better soon. Understand that your
son's whining and tantrums aren't so much a discipline problem
as an expression of anxiety. His world has been turned upside
down. He needs to be given as much love and attention as
possible. Understand that your wife's world has been turned
upside down as well. Make sure she knows that you love her
and support her, and think she's a *wonderful* mother.

Good luck.

Bizby

Thanks.



  #5  
Old April 8th 05, 12:29 PM
electroscopillan
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I'll just respond to a couple things.. ..give you my experience and opinion.
I'm a single dad of a 19mo ds too, fyi..

wrote in message
ups.com...

My opinion is that my wife needs to
teach or discipline him so that she can manage the day taking care of
the baby and him without all the whinning and tantrums. I really don't
want a day care worker to teach my son how to behave, I think it's the
parent's job.


I tend to agree with your opinion here, it really is the parents job, to
ensure consistency, and maintain a strong bond - which daycare could
potentially weaken, (though my situation is much different, and forces me
getting daycare right now). But then you say...

My wife argues that it's in my sons best interest to send him to day
care. I don't agree and think that her reason is because she's having
a real tough time taking care of an infant (waking up in the middle of
the night) and a 19 month old all by herself. It's alot of work for
her and she's not getting enough sleep. But she insists that's not her
motivation for wanting daycare.


You're probably correct, she's probably overwhelmed and possibly may be too
proud, or in denial about it. However.. ..if she says "it's in his best
interest", then maybe this is code for "I cannot handle all of this stress
(with whining/tantrums + baby) anymore, and feel like I'm in a losing
battle". And thus, maybe it really is in his best interest? Or, quite
alternately, maybe your wife needs to explain her reasoning to you, about
exactly *why* it is in his best interest to be in daycare. Maybe she thinks
that socializing him with other kids is a more important aspect to his
developement? I mean, there is a degree of balance involved here.

Thinking that her real reason is the tough work taking care of the
kids, I have been trying to help her by taking care of both the kids
when I get off from work, usually around 5:30pm until they go to sleep
at 9-10pm. I also feed the baby in the morning before I go to work
around 6 am. In addition we buy take out food everyday so she doesn't
have to cook, and I do all the chores, ie vacuuming, dishes (when I'm
home), mowing the lawn, and bathrooms. She basically takes care of the
kids when I'm doing the chores and am at work and she does the dishes
while I'm away and the laundry for everbody. She also wakes up in the
middle of the night to feed the 2 month old. Anyway, this hasn't stop
her from pushing daycare.


Good for you.. ..some other dad's I know personally, lounge around the house
when they're home, and make more of a mess than anything else, (I get to
take it all on, but that's another story).

Is it really such a good idea to send a 19 month old to daycare monday
thru friday from 9am to 3pm? If it's really in the best interest of
the kid, I don't mind spending $500 a month, but then what happens when
the 2 month old gets to that age. Then it'll be $1000 a month. With
just my income and me not wanting to work more than 40 hours, it would
be very tough financially.


My 19mo son is currently in daycare M-F, 10am-6pm, while I work, and/or go
to school. I spend about 4 hours a day with him weekdays, and through most
weekends. Our bond hasn't weakened as far as I'm concerned - but is in fact
stronger, as I now have the energy and eagerness to expend on him that he
needs and deserves to recieve. My son is learning to socialize with other
kids/people, and gets to go on little field trips and excusrsions with other
kids nearly every other day. He's always full of eager hugs and smiles when
I come to pick him up.. .and falls asleep easily from all of the energy he's
burned off doing constructive things throughout the day.

Before I got him into daycare , the drudgery of struggling to get studying
done, or to fit in evening work on the weekends was daunting and draining.
I was frankly becoming very emotionally overwhelmed and needed a break from
his constant energy. (I recently acquired sole custody, whilst already
enrolled in classes, and have had to juggle my way through quite the
maelstrom as of late). When my ds' mother was around, things weren't much
better.. ..I was feeling emotionally drained, unfortunately, around my son,
and didn't feel like he was getting the best parts of my attention.

But he is now. =)

What do you guys think? Any advice or suggestion?


My best advice is.. ..talk to your wife. Find out what's going on, in her
mind. Maybe you guys can reach some kind of compromise with getting him
into more part-time daycare, or homecare, or something like that? I don't
know where you live, but a lot of homecare workers where I live will do very
part-time hours, and charge accordingly.. ..much cheaper. I know there are
some bad stories about homecare.. ..some people won't go near it. I just
went through someone I knew to be very reputable for some home-care for my
son in the past (which I needed to survive). I'm actually surprised that
you'd have to pay $500/mo for the hours you described, esp. if you live in
the states? (I'm in Canada) I pay $505/mo (CDN) for M-F, 7:30am-6:00pm
(which I choose to not fully utilize, so I can spend more time with my son).


  #6  
Old April 8th 05, 02:39 PM
Penny Gaines
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wrote:

I am having some trouble with my wife.


I think the real problem is that you have two babies (no matter how big
he seems compared to the 2mo, the 19mo is still a baby), and almost
everyone would find it hard to cope. You are probably both stressed out,
and it is possible your wife has postnatal depression as well.

We have two boys, one is
2 months old and the other is 19 months. I work and my wife stays at
home. Lately my older son has been whinning and crying. He does this
with her, but not as much with me.


He's just found that life no longer revolves aroud him, and he's probably
having a hard time adjusting. Possibly when he is with you, you are not
also in sole charge of the baby, but when he is with your wife, she is
trying to look after another child too. That is, the reason you aren't
getting the tantrums is because he isn't jealous that the baby is stealing
his time with you.

It's driving my wife nuts and now
she wants to sent him to day care part time. She wants to enroll him
in a pre school from 9am to 3pm, 5 days a week. It costs about $500 a
month. She says it will be good for him because he is bore at home and
it will teach him how to behave. My opinion is that my wife needs to
teach or discipline him so that she can manage the day taking care of
the baby and him without all the whinning and tantrums. I really don't
want a day care worker to teach my son how to behave, I think it's the
parent's job. I would like to wait until he is 3 years old and potty
train before sending him to a pre school program and only for 1 1/2
hours twice a week. At 4 to 5 years, to pre school for 2 1/2 hours
three times a week.


I don't think that is an unreasonable ideal for day care use: OTOH, you
aren't looking after him for the rest of the time, so you can look at it in
a different light to the way your wife is looking at it. Also, if she is
exhausted, she probably isn't thinking straight: maybe she would be happy
with shorter time, but doesn't think a daycare would offer it.

My wife argues that it's in my sons best interest to send him to day
care. I don't agree and think that her reason is because she's having
a real tough time taking care of an infant (waking up in the middle of
the night) and a 19 month old all by herself. It's alot of work for
her and she's not getting enough sleep. But she insists that's not her
motivation for wanting daycare.


One option she could consider is perhaps getting a mother's help for a
few hours a day. That way, the mother's help could take the older child out
so he isn't bored and give your wife the time she wants with the baby.

It's possible that your wife is feeling guilty that the baby isn't getting
the same attention that she gave the older one, and the only way she can see
to do this is to send the older one someone else.

[snip]

Is it really such a good idea to send a 19 month old to daycare monday
thru friday from 9am to 3pm? If it's really in the best interest of
the kid, I don't mind spending $500 a month, but then what happens when
the 2 month old gets to that age. Then it'll be $1000 a month. With
just my income and me not wanting to work more than 40 hours, it would
be very tough financially.

What do you guys think? Any advice or suggestion?


I think this is nothing to do with whether daycare is in the best interests
of your children, and has a huge amount to do with your wife feeling
exhausted, over-stretched and unappreciated. From what you have written,
there is a certain air of "look at *all* I do, and how little she does", and
if you discuss this issue with her like that, she probably feels you
don't appreciate that she may well be runing round trying to keep two
demanding little tryants happy, and have no idea what it is like for her -
and you don't. I'm not trying to belittle what you do, but when you have
a single baby, you get lots of time off- eg when the baby is napping - but
when you add the second child, you don't have that time off. She is on call
the entire time you are at work, she doesn't even get coffee breaks.

--
Penny Gaines
UK mum to three

  #7  
Old April 8th 05, 05:10 PM
Tomwaters
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Default

Tai wrote:
With the proviso that the daycare is good quality and your son

settles in
well, etc. I probably wouldn't go for 5 days, though, unless your

wife is at
risk for post-natal depression.


We went to several day care provides. The wife likes a montessori
provider
and the director at that school recommends all five days. They really
stress the learning value over child care. I just think 19 months is
a little too early to be so concerned about learning. Wife might have
some depression since she sometimes would say "I wished we never had
any
kids and her life is now miserable".


I wouldn't argue with your wife about *why* a bit of respite from

each other
would be a good idea but it does sound like your wife might be able

to cope
better if she gets some more rest. She may (wrongly) be feeling that

she's
inadequate as a mother when really the problem is that no one is a

good
parent if sleep-deprived.


Good advice. Thanks.


Does your wife have a network of friends with similarly aged children

with
whom she can arrange playdates? Any grandparents who'd love to

babysit for
a few hours a couple of times a week?


We have some friends with similar aged children, but they don't live
nearby.
We get together every two months or so on the weekend. Her parents
travel
alot and are not available at this time. Wife doesn't feel comfortable
with my parents and doesn't want me to ask them to help out.

What about the cost of hiring a regular babysitter to come in and

take your
oldest boy out for a couple of hours? At this stage the reciprocal

nature of
playdates might be a bit much for your wife while your baby is so

young so I
would look for other *regularly scheduled* solutions that your son

would
enjoy but that gave your wife a chance to catch her breath long

enough to
enjoy relating to him again. And vice versa.


We talked about that, but turned out too hard for us to find someone.
It
was easier just to look at licensed day care centers.


You do know this is a temporary situation, don't you? It will get

better! I
do think it would be a good idea for her to speak to a sympathetic

doctor
who is well-used to mothers of young children.


I hope so. Thanks for your advice.

P.S. I'm new to usenet via google.com. How do I change the text color
when
I reply?

  #8  
Old April 8th 05, 05:11 PM
Nikki
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wrote:

We have two boys, one is
2 months old and the other is 19 months. I work and my wife stays at
home. Lately my older son has been whinning and crying. He does this
with her, but not as much with me. It's driving my wife nuts and now
she wants to sent him to day care part time. She wants to enroll him
in a pre school from 9am to 3pm, 5 days a week. It costs about $500 a
month. She says it will be good for him because he is bore at home and
it will teach him how to behave.


She's got to be exhausted physically and emotionally from meeting the needs
of two such young children. Make sure she knows she is a good mother. It
is easy to think someone else would do a better job when you are completely
exhausted and things aren't going well. It is expected that his behavior
will regress due to his age and a new baby. That is due to the situation,
not the parenting. It will get better.

She needs a break - regularly. A block of time (a couple hours) when she is
needed by no one nor responsible for anyone.

OK - to give some suggestions that are actually helpful ;-)

Daycare is one option. Other options a

Hire someone to do the indoor and outdoor chores so instead of you doing
them, you can watch the babies. Watch them 100% for a couple hours. Have a
list of places you can go/things you can do with the babies so you can
sometimes leave the house. Your wife can sometimes leave to go to a restful
peaceful place, or do something she enjoys that isn't kid friendly. She can
lock herself in the bedroom and read/sleep/whatever.

Summer is coming. Hire a 14yo to come in 3 times a week for a couple hours
to watch the new baby. She can spend that time alone with the toddler.
That will be nice for both of them and his behavior will probably improve.

Sign up for some toddler classes or mom groups if any are available. That
won't be a break but it is sometimes helpful to have other woman of babies
to talk to.

--
Nikki


  #9  
Old April 8th 05, 05:12 PM
Tomwaters
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


electroscopillan wrote:

You're probably correct, she's probably overwhelmed and possibly may

be too
proud, or in denial about it. However.. ..if she says "it's in his

best
interest", then maybe this is code for "I cannot handle all of this

stress
(with whining/tantrums + baby) anymore, and feel like I'm in a losing
battle". And thus, maybe it really is in his best interest? Or,

quite
alternately, maybe your wife needs to explain her reasoning to you,

about
exactly *why* it is in his best interest to be in daycare. Maybe she

thinks
that socializing him with other kids is a more important aspect to

his
developement? I mean, there is a degree of balance involved here.


I think you're right about being overwhelmed. When we talked I told
her
that I won't mind sending the older child to daycare if the reason is
she needs a break, but she always insists that it's the best thing
because
he needs to interact with other kids and be exposed to other things to
get stimulated and not bored. I don't want to send the child to
daycare for that reason because I think it's too early. Aside from the
different view point about whether it's good for him or not, I just
don't think we can afford it on a permanent basis, especially if both
kids go to day care from
toddler to kindergarden.

Good for you.. ..some other dad's I know personally, lounge around

the house
when they're home, and make more of a mess than anything else, (I get

to
take it all on, but that's another story).


Thanks. I'm getting really tired, but I think she really needs a break
until things get easier.


My 19mo son is currently in daycare M-F, 10am-6pm, while I work,

and/or go
to school. I spend about 4 hours a day with him weekdays, and

through most
weekends. Our bond hasn't weakened as far as I'm concerned - but is

in fact
stronger, as I now have the energy and eagerness to expend on him

that he
needs and deserves to recieve. My son is learning to socialize with

other
kids/people, and gets to go on little field trips and excusrsions

with other
kids nearly every other day. He's always full of eager hugs and

smiles when
I come to pick him up.. .and falls asleep easily from all of the

energy he's
burned off doing constructive things throughout the day.


Sounds like your a good dad. It's really hard being a parent,
especially
a single one. I'm not anti daycare because I think it's up to each
family's
situation. I think if my wife just can't take it, then we would have
to get day care help. Otherwise it won't be good for any of us. It's
amazing you can do all that and still go to school.


I'm actually surprised that
you'd have to pay $500/mo for the hours you described, esp. if you

live in
the states? (I'm in Canada) I pay $505/mo (CDN) for M-F,

7:30am-6:00pm
(which I choose to not fully utilize, so I can spend more time with

my son).

Yes in LA, that's the going rate...some a little more some a little
less.
We are thinking about a montessori school. The have full time care
from
6:00am-6:30pm and that would cost about $700/mo.

  #10  
Old April 8th 05, 06:28 PM
Banty
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article . com, Tomwaters
says...



I think you're right about being overwhelmed. When we talked I told
her
that I won't mind sending the older child to daycare if the reason is
she needs a break, but she always insists that it's the best thing
because
he needs to interact with other kids and be exposed to other things to
get stimulated and not bored. I don't want to send the child to
daycare for that reason because I think it's too early. Aside from the
different view point about whether it's good for him or not, I just
don't think we can afford it on a permanent basis, especially if both
kids go to day care from
toddler to kindergarden.


She may truly see it that was, or it may really be because she needs a break, or
(most likely) some combination. Consider that women are socialized not to do
things for their own sakes, so we tend to couch our needs in terms of what
others' needs are. (Speaking in very broad and general terms, but I feel these
expectations every single day as a woman.) "It's best for the child" is seen as
more acceptable than "I need a break".

And she may need to see it that way - if you're insisting that it's only
necessary if it's for her sake, you may be putting her into a spot where she
either is 'selfish', or doesn't get her needs fulfilled.

With this in mind, lay out the options for daycare and/or preschool and discuss
from among these.

Banty

 




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