Advice about summer work?

"shinypenny" wrote in message
ups.com...

electroscopillan wrote:

Pros:

3. Girlfriend is already committed to going. She's been very
supportive,
and it will be immensely hard on me to be apart from her.

It's *only* three months - a drop in the bucket of a lifelong
relationship, if this is destined to be a lifelong relationship.

And I just don't
want us to end up drifting apart.

If you think three months will cause you to drift apart, then the
relationship wasn't worth it to begin with.

She really wants me to come too.

She is an adult - three months is nothing to her (and should be nothing
to you, too). OTOH, DS is only 19 months. Three months is an eternity
at that age. So much can happen in three months!


Our
relationship is important to ds' future as well.

Agreed. I'm not trying to be harsh; I do get this.

I agree with you.. ..I can be emotionally needy I suppose. I don't really
think that this seperation will severely threaten our relationship - I am
worried about my own stability - and hence, my son's.

Cons:
1. Bond between ds and I will be threatened. Possibly resulting in
problems down the road. I know that many of you will respond to this
factor.. ..so I won't say much more.

I don't know if it's so much that the bond will be threatened, as that
you are leaving at a vulnerable age. Your son is getting close to
hitting the "terrible two's" and this stage is critical, IMO. Also, a
19 month old is going to experience separation anxiety way more than an
older or younger child. It's just really bad timing for this age.

Duly noted.. ..do you just know this intuitively/experience-wise, or what is
your basis, (just genuinely curious about the source of your info)

Additionally, this child already lost his mother. He needs a sense of
constancy and stability right now. His needs, IMO, are far, far greater
right at the moment than yours or your gf.

I know this.. ..I'm trying to find the balance point where he and I are both
better off now, and in the future (near and far).

2. Mother may show up while I'm out of town (she is currently 2
provinces
away), and orchestrate some kind of nightmare scene, (this is
something that
could happen while i'm here anyway.. ..but it is the psychological
stress of
not-knowing/not-being-in-control, that is my concern).

I didn't read your previous posts, but consider that she could possibly
use this against you in court, making a claim that you abandoned your
son to her mother.

It wouldn't be abandonment. I was actually thinking about this.. ..that we
would write up a child-care contract together.. ..just in case something you
described was attempted by her.

besides, mother appears to be completely inept/intimidated at dealing with
authority, beuracracy or administrative things. She never showed up for
either of the 2 hearings for custody of her 2 children.

3. Working alongside gf may weaken our relationship. (though I
doubt this
one - she is the cook for the camp, while I'll be a planter, so we'd
only
see each other at breakfast, supper, and at the end of the day)

If it weakens your relationship, then it wasn't meant to be. I sense
too much doubt here on your part. Regardless of how long you've known
her, it sounds like this is still very much a question mark of a
relationship. It's not worth your son having to do all the sacrifices,
if you want my opinion. It might be different if you and she were
already married, but you're not.

point taken. I think I suffer some insecurities.. ..I'm doing my best to
overcome them. However.. .even if gf wasn't in the picture, I'd still be
eyeing the option to make $300/day

Anyway.. ..I apologize for the length of this post.. ..I'm just
really
twisted up inside over what to do. I'm in love with both ds and gf.
I
would lament leaving ds.. ..but also feel that a break from the
constant
juggling/gasping for air (always one step behind bills/rent etc.)
would be a
smart move for the future. As well as nurturing the relationship
with gf.

Any thoughts?

Any possibility you can bring DS with you? That might be the ticket.

There is a small possibility.. .if enough other parents end up showing up
and organizing a time-sharing care network, or all hire a childcare-worker
at the camp. Though in this case, ds would be apart from the other
familiars in his life (grandma, grandpa, brother, friends at daycare), which
he wouldn't be if he stayed.

Otherwise, my advice is to stay where you are, work, and if your
relationship is meant to be, it'll survive the three months just fine.

I'm still looking for other employment options

One final thought: imagine how sad, depressed, lonely and pining you
will have if you and your gf are apart for three months. Imagine how
anxious you will be wondering what she's doing, who she's meeting,
whether she still loves you, whether she will ever come back to you.
Totally sucks, doesn't it?

Now, imagine you deliberately putting your DS through those exact same
emotions. Because that's what you'd be doing.

I get what you're trying to say.. ..but that analogy doesn't translate in my
opinion. There are huge differences between a man-woman relationship and a
father-son one.

Thanks for your advice tho.. ..I'm looking for all the input I can get.

In article ,
electroscopillan wrote:

I have looked for other jobs, and there's nothing else available (in the
city) that will allow me to actually get ahead of the cash-flow beast and
out of debt. I generally work for $15/hour for my dad as a
handi-man/contractor.. ..whom I don't want to work for anymore. I don't
have my own vehicle (yet) or a huge cache of tools (yet), so I can't really
work for myself, and am severely limited by who I could work for. Taking a
minimum wage job ($6/hr - like a retail/service job) isn't really a
viable/rational option for me at this point, as it would be a huge stepping
down, when I need to be making *more* money.

I would be very careful when considering tree planting if your main
motivation is the amount of money you can earn. The work is extremely
physically demanding, and for an inexperienced planter the amount that
you earn (which is per tree planted) can be much less than that of an
experienced planter. Of my aquaintences who have tried tree planting,
one quit after a few weeks and the other did complete the summer but
with much smaller earnings than he had budgeted for.

You need to consider that if your earnings forecast is not as high as
you are currently expecting, is it still a worthwhile opportunity
given that you have to be away from your son for 3 months?

Carol Hulls

electroscopillan wrote:

I agree with you.. ..I can be emotionally needy I suppose. I don't
really
think that this seperation will severely threaten our relationship -
I am
worried about my own stability - and hence, my son's.


And it is a legitimate concern. Financial stability is important when
raising a child. I am just of the mind that it is not as important as a
stable parent/child bond, especially at this critical age.



Duly noted.. ..do you just know this intuitively/experience-wise, or
what is
your basis, (just genuinely curious about the source of your info)

I have two children, ages 10 and 12. Admittedly my memory can be
sketchy when it comes to thinking back to when they were younger, but
19 months stands out in my mind because DD#1 was that age when DD#2 was
born, so I remember it quite well. DD#1 had no concept of time, and did
not handle my going off to the hospital for 36 hours very well. Didn't
matter how much her dad and grandparents attempted to distract and
reassure her. She just stood at the window with a sad face watching for
mom to return.

Also, I have been through a divorce and custody battle myself. From
what I learned through that experience, the courts have a strong belief
that young children "bond" with their primary caretaker (could be mom,
dad, relative, or sitter). They are quite loathe to disrupt this bond,
even if that caretaker has issues. As long as the issues are treatable
and the caretaker is attempting to treat them, they attempt at all
costs to keep the caretaker in the child's life. They believe the bond
is THAT important.

I'd be worried, knowing what I know of the courts, that if mom came
back while you were gone, the courts might side with her and restore
her contact. They may look at your 3-month absence in a negative light,
especially considering that this child's bond with his mother has
already been broken (by her own accord, right?). If grandma was so
inclined, the courts might jump at the chance to have her sign up for
the role of primary caretaker and stable parental influence in the
child's life. They might figure that the child needs *someone* who
won't run off like mom and dad did.


I know this.. ..I'm trying to find the balance point where he and I
are both
better off now, and in the future (near and far).

How long ago did mom leave? Have you been a stable, steady influence in
the child's life since birth? If not, for how long? Or has grandma
really been the only steady influence to date? If so, then I'd be less
concerned about your going away - instead, I'd be more concerned if the
bond with grandma was disrupted.


point taken. I think I suffer some insecurities.. ..I'm doing my
best to
overcome them. However.. .even if gf wasn't in the picture, I'd
still be
eyeing the option to make $300/day


Your child, at this age, cares little about money. He cares much more
about the people in his life.

Now, if he was school-aged, I'd be much less hesitant about what you're
proposing. He'd be at a much less vulnerable age. Keep in mind that a
19 month old can't tell time, and has no concept of what "three months"
means, and has little vocabularly as far as expressing his emotions. As
far as he's concerned, it could mean you are returning tomorrow... or
in 20 years! Not only that, but many 19 month olds don't even
understand that's you talking to them over the phone. They have no
concept of daddy being in another "state" - what's a "state"?

This is the age when children start carving out their independence,
usually by learning to say no, throwing temper tantrums, potty
training, etc. In order to become independent, a child must have a
stable starting point, and that is the dependent relationship on the
primary caretaker. If that relationship is strong, consistent, and
stable, from out of that dependency, grows the child's budding
independence.

This is why it's such a bad idea, if you've been the primary caretaker,
for you to suddenly break that bond and disappear for so long. It will
disrupt the child's natural growth towards independence.


I get what you're trying to say.. ..but that analogy doesn't
translate in my
opinion. There are huge differences between a man-woman relationship
and a
father-son one.


Absolutely, there's a huge difference: adults can tell time, read a
calendar, have a concept of what "three months" means. Adults can also
make sacrifices, be patient, and delay gratification. They can maintain
a relationship over the phone, because they have a more advanced
vocabularly. They understand abstract concepts. A 19 month old? Ha ha
ha! Not any of the 19 month olds I've ever known!

If your child has a strong bond with you, though his feelings may be
different, the magnitude will be the same or much worse. He will suffer
emotionally. Please don't underestimate that.

If you're inclined, I recommend the book, "A General Theory of Love."
It has several chapters on the science behind the parent/child
relationship.

jen

"shinypenny" wrote in message

electroscopillan wrote:

I agree with you.. ..I can be emotionally needy I suppose. I don't
really
think that this seperation will severely threaten our relationship -
I am
worried about my own stability - and hence, my son's.


And it is a legitimate concern. Financial stability is important when
raising a child. I am just of the mind that it is not as important as a
stable parent/child bond, especially at this critical age.

I do generally agree with this. I really would prefer to bring my son along
with me, and am attempting to do so. However, finances for me/ds are a very
real issue right now. I need to get some things off the ground.. ..waiting
til a year from now just doesn't seem beneficial from a long-view, IMO.

Duly noted.. ..do you just know this intuitively/experience-wise, or
what is
your basis, (just genuinely curious about the source of your info)

She just stood at the window with a sad face watching for
mom to return.

I know that my son has a very bright outlook/demeanor. He is very
socialable - a little charmer actually - and I can't say that I noticed any
substantial change in his behaviour when his mother dissapeared, (not that I
don't think it affected him at all.. ..just that he didn't really seem to
care/notice/react - other than a few rougher nights of restlessness - which
I would attribute more to the end of his weening process which his mother
had started already), and his mother was very affectionate and bonded with
him - as am I - as negligent as she was with
home-life/finances/work/cleanliness/scheduling/you-get-the-idea.

Also, I have been through a divorce and custody battle myself. From
what I learned through that experience, the courts have a strong belief
that young children "bond" with their primary caretaker (could be mom,
dad, relative, or sitter). They are quite loathe to disrupt this bond,
even if that caretaker has issues. As long as the issues are treatable
and the caretaker is attempting to treat them, they attempt at all
costs to keep the caretaker in the child's life. They believe the bond
is THAT important.

I'd be worried, knowing what I know of the courts, that if mom came
back while you were gone, the courts might side with her and restore
her contact. They may look at your 3-month absence in a negative light,
especially considering that this child's bond with his mother has
already been broken (by her own accord, right?).

I know where you're coming from.. ..but I am not worried about the courts
deciding to give mom custody. She's done a pretty good job of ensuring that
she won't be getting custody any time soon.. ..she needs professional help.
She hasn't even provided the courts with a mailing address - hasn't played
her part at all, in dealing with responsibility.

If grandma was so
inclined, the courts might jump at the chance to have her sign up for
the role of primary caretaker and stable parental influence in the
child's life. They might figure that the child needs *someone* who
won't run off like mom and dad did.

Ds' grandmother is completely on my side - she was attempting to get her
daughter commited amidst court issues. Have very open communication about
care plans. I occasionally take care of ds' 5yo brother overnight, when my
roomate is able to cope with his hyperness. (19mo is much easier/quieter to
deal with than 5yo, is that normal?)

I know this.. ..I'm trying to find the balance point where he and I
are both
better off now, and in the future (near and far).

How long ago did mom leave? Have you been a stable, steady influence in
the child's life since birth? If not, for how long? Or has grandma
really been the only steady influence to date? If so, then I'd be less
concerned about your going away - instead, I'd be more concerned if the
bond with grandma was disrupted.

ok, here's the background everyone. mother and I had horrible fallout soon
after she became pregnant - we'd attempted to move in together and there was
much abuse (verbal, physical, mental - on her behalf). I really knew
better, and should never have stayed with this woman as long as I did (she
was abusive throughout our entire relationship). After too many things were
broken, too many bruises taken, too much abuse 24-7, I asked her to leave -
there was no way I, or anyone, could put up with the level of abuse she
upheld - pregnancy is no excuse for the terror she put me through - and
regardless, it wasn't something new.

She took this in a strong sense, and left the province. Ds was born 2
provinces away. I went to visit him (staying in a hotel for a week) at 1.5
weeks. And again at 4 months. Situation with the ex was still tense - and
she was very obsessed with me - wanting me to move in with her, etc. She
became enraged any time I expressed reservations or concerns about our
past - I had to keep reminding her that we were 'over'. Anyway..

Mom decided that she needed my help (and was still pining over me ,eyes
rolling painfully) at ds=13mo. Made the move back (after convincing me to
"lend" her huge portions of cash to make the trip). We work out 50/50
parenting arrangements. For the first 4 months, this included taking care
of both my ds, and her ds5yo, for about 1/3 of the time. Her ds is quite
the handful, and this was seen as being quite generous on my behalf. She
was working and I was going to school during this time.. ..so overlapping
hours were picked up by homecare that we were to split (but *I* ended up
paying for).

Anyway, yaddayadda.. ..she finds young bf and falls head over hills in
love, (I was in a relationship at this point too), and her life-management
skills take a dramatic slide for the worse, (not that they were great to
begin with - far from). She gets fired from her job, then became ill for
awhile, requiring me to take on both kids nearly full-time for a period. I
was getting fed up. Why I was carrying the misplaced burden for someone who
treated me so badly and disrespectfully, I was beginning to question. She
had a live-in bf who did nothing to contribute to the kids.

I got assertive (after she got better). I gave her a months notice that I
would be taking on ds 50% and nothing more. No more other ties, other than
the occasional social visit at our mutual convenience with her ds. She
agreed to this. Then when the time came to apply it.. ..she was not dealing
well with it, and became *very* embittered toward me for "spitefully pulling
the rug out from under her". Communication became ridiculously impossible
during this period. She was constantly ruining my day by being late, or
absent when I was to drop or pick up ds. She would hang up the phone and
unhook it when there was a problem.. ..leaving me holding ds when I had an
exam or class or job to go to. She was surviving on barely any food.. ..and
I would regularly send food home with ds, both for her and the kids, out of
concern. She lived in squalor.

this is getting long..

anyway.. ..she secretly plots with bf to skip her rent, sell off tons of her
and her kids stuff (through an NG no less, where she lied that I wasn't
helping with our son - to gain public sympathy - adding insult to injury).
Tells me that she is forced to move to a shelter for a time.. ..and that
she'll call me when she's settled in. She *actually* hops on a bus, heading
off to god knows where.. ..falls ill on the way, and contacts some relatives
for help, who then contact her mother, who then contacts me. We (ds'
grandma and I) get our lit-up butts into court out-of-province within 2 days
time, and easily pull-off exparte custody on account of mom is off her nut.
Mother misses next two court dates.. ..end of story. =) phew.

Sooo.. ..I've had ds in my care since he was 13 mo (almost 7 months now)..
...barring a 2 week period when he was being kept from me. Grandma has
basically only been in his life for past 3 months - she has been quite
present in ds'bros life on and off throughout his years.

point taken. I think I suffer some insecurities.. ..I'm doing my
best to
overcome them. However.. .even if gf wasn't in the picture, I'd
still be
eyeing the option to make $300/day


Your child, at this age, cares little about money. He cares much more
about the people in his life.
snip
This is the age when children start carving out their independence,
usually by learning to say no, throwing temper tantrums, potty
training, etc. In order to become independent, a child must have a
stable starting point, and that is the dependent relationship on the
primary caretaker. If that relationship is strong, consistent, and
stable, from out of that dependency, grows the child's budding
independence.

I hear you.

This is why it's such a bad idea, if you've been the primary caretaker,
for you to suddenly break that bond and disappear for so long. It will
disrupt the child's natural growth towards independence.

I'm having many doubts about leaving, based on all of this, yes...

If your child has a strong bond with you, though his feelings may be
different, the magnitude will be the same or much worse. He will suffer
emotionally. Please don't underestimate that.

I realize how much ds depends on me.. ..he's always exhuberant to see me
when I come to pick him up from daycare.. ..getting upset when I stop
hugging him to set him down momentarily to sign him out, (he cries when
grandma has to leave too). We are very in sync with each others
emotions/behaviour (though ds is actually quite independant in some ways
already, he'll play quietly by himself in his room when he sees that I am
busy), and I don't want to lose that.. ..at the same time.. ..I wonder if
being with grandma won't help him with development of independance? Ds is
quite the blessing.. .really, from my experience, and what I gather from
others, he's the most well-behaved and good-natured kid I could possibly
hope for - as well as being indescribably beautiful. Grandma and grandpa
love having him around, as his energy is very contagious to everyone,
especially 5yo hyper-master.

I just want to provide for his future.. ..I'm very stressed out about it -
and for good reason.

electroscopillan wrote:


I just want to provide for his future.. ..I'm very stressed out about
it -
and for good reason.

What a story! My heart goes out to you; it must've been a very tough
year, and I can see you really are in a dilemma here. I think your
heart is in the right place, and no matter which way you decide
(neither option is ideal), it sounds like you've got your head screwed
on straight and you'll make the best of it that you can.

If you decide to take the job and can't swing taking DS with you, I'd
recommend keeping DS in the same daycare. Sounds like this has been a
constant for him and I'd want to maintain as many constants as
possible. Would you also be able to travel back periodically during the
three months for visits?

If you decide not to take the job, might I recommend a couple of
things? First, if it is necessary, don't be too proud to go on welfare.
You are the type of person it was designed for. It's obvious you are on
the right track in your life, you're just in a rough patch right now
and could use a little temporary help. Second, is there any possibility
grandma would allow you and DS to move in with her? This might help you
save on expenses, and perhaps make up the difference financially. I
think it's great grandma is playing an active role in DS' life.
Grandparents are important.

Whichever way you decide, good luck to you both.

jen

Thanks to all for advice..

as it is now.. ..mother has been in contact (somewhat negatively) and I feel
something is brewing in the background.. ..so I'm definitely edging towards
staying.. ..or even better: taking him with me if I can.

(I've been working nightshifts and burning the candle at both ends lately..
...god.. ..I am so tired. I can't wait until finals are done)

Ty

"Nikki" wrote in message
...
electroscopillan wrote:
I'm just posting my thoughts, see what some other parents think about
my situation.

If I were in your situation I would probably choose to stay with my son
and
find a way to make that work.

I don't think it would be the end of the earth if you chose differently
however. It sound as if grandma is a good person to leave him with and
she
has an established relationship with him already. It might be harder for
him to leave her in the fall and come back to live with you then it would
be
him for you to leave him now. Mostly because of his age and that she will
likely be spending more of her day with him then you do. Even 3 months
can
make a difference and a 23mo will have a hard time with that amount of
change.

yeah.. .things could be strange coming back to.. (if I go)

I've seen this happen with two fairly close people in my life so I caution
you to be certain that the mother doesn't make a play for custody because
she could use an absence like this against you.

if I go, I'll be sure to make sure several safe-guards are in place..
...written contracts, regular checking up, etc.

I also caution you to make
sure the grandmother would not make a play for custody because she could
also use this absence against you and she's had him so she'll have
something
working for her. The two people I know of had the grandparents make the
play for custody and one of them got it.

well, I don't see grandma making a play for custody.. ..it just wouldn't
make sense. I am actually going to be paying her to help. I currently have
a hard time getting more than one day per week help from her, as she is busy
taking care of a 5yo handful and working during the day.

thanks for the heads up tho.

It is mighty hard to give kids back once you love them and raise them for
any significant amount of time.

When deciding what to do, I would really try to completely not think about
the gf relationship. That shouldn't be part of the decision...it should
be
about what is best for your son.

I think that is good advice.. ..and I'm able to see that now. I know that
my son really does need some consistency in his life.. ..I wish to provide
him with that.

"electroscopillan" wrote in message
well, I don't see grandma making a play for custody.. ..it just wouldn't
make sense. I am actually going to be paying her to help. I currently
have
a hard time getting more than one day per week help from her, as she is
busy
taking care of a 5yo handful and working during the day.

Okay, so the child isn't going to be spending the days with grandma and then
is going to still need to be sent to another daycare during the day? I'm
sorry, that just sounds so inconsistent for a child of 19 months. Remember,
children like routines and thrive on them. Even though he is young, he will
still need to have some consistency in his days. Not knowing where you are,
then going to grandmas to stay part of the time and then getting used to
other caregivers, sounds really inconsistent for a child.
--
Sue (mom to three girls)

"Sue" wrote in message

Okay, so the child isn't going to be spending the days with grandma and
then
is going to still need to be sent to another daycare during the day?

Same daycare he's in now. Where his brother goes, and has been going. It's
true.. ..grandma's not really going to be spending a huge portion of the day
with him, excepting weekends of course. The tumultuousness of *my* life
since the big event has forced me into taking advantage of nearly the
full-time daycare hours too.. ..I would rather get a jump start away from
having to continue taking him there, instead of lingering in this rut
indefinitely. I don't think going on welfare would be a great move right
now.

still have time for options.. ..just want to make sure I feel everything out
before I make a choice..

In article , electroscopillan says...


"Sue" wrote in message

Okay, so the child isn't going to be spending the days with grandma and
then
is going to still need to be sent to another daycare during the day?

Same daycare he's in now. Where his brother goes, and has been going. It's
true.. ..grandma's not really going to be spending a huge portion of the day
with him, excepting weekends of course.

Perhaps I missed something - but why would he be spending a lot of time at
gradma's on the weekends?

Banty