Vaccines are destroying our immune systems.

And yet again, John has dodged the issue and failed to respond to even
one of the scientific studies I linked to, or my comments. Rather, he
fell back onto his usual "it's all lies" claims. Of course he has no
proof, but we can't blame him. It's hard to find proof for fantasies.

I think he's a coward - he too afraid to actually read the studies as he
may actually have to consider his long-held beliefs...

Bryan

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...83572797&q=911

This is quite a different angle I've seen on it. The main spokespeople
exposing this "new pearl harbour" as part of the Project for the New
American Century (PNAC) are now warning us that we don't want mainstream(is
that you?) to find out TOO quickly because it will cause anarchy.

But hey, if you want to know the truth about 911 and 7/7 and BaliBombings,
then that link above is a good start. If you want to verify any of the
claims there is evidence all over the internet and just search "911" at
video.Google.com

Enjoy - I'm not sure what we are to do about it and what may happen but I
can say that its very exciting to be on the inside like this whereas people
are walking around thinking all this rubbish about jihadists and so forth -
its all mainstream cattle pellets - just stock rubbish to keep you all
working and stupid like good little ants.

Personally I don't agree with covert government. I believe in open
government where people are all informed and can make informed decisions and
also have informed debates about our issues as humanity while we share our
lives here on earth awake. There is no reason to believe that these
secretive oligarchs - which is how they behave - have a better insight as to
what we need and should have. And this is exactly what they are doing.

I want to share this with people because I want them to know what's
happening so they can decide for themselves. I can tell you that the
mainstream media is a propaganda machine and everything told on it has an
agenda. If the truth conflicts with their agenda then they lie. And they lie
ALL the time.



--
"We decided long ago that the dangers of excessive and unwarranted
concealment of pertinent facts far outweighed the dangers that are cited to
justify it.
There is very grave danger that unannounced need for increased security will
be seized upon by those anxious to expand its meaning to the very limits of
official censorship and concealment." (JFK)
A MUST LISTEN:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...99905805&q=JFK

"No war ever posed a greater threat to our security. A monolithic and
ruthless conspiracy"
On the illuminati and zionism:
http://www.erichufschmid.net/Benjami...nsSpeech16.mp3
http://usa-the-republic.com/audio/index.html

Daryl Bradford Smith:
www.iamthewitness.com
Professor Steven Jones proof of WTC demolition explosives:
http://www.physics.byu.edu/research/energy/htm7.html






--
"We decided long ago that the dangers of excessive and unwarranted
concealment of pertinant facts far outweighed the dangers that are cited to
justify it.
There is very grave danger that anannounced need for increased security will
be seized upon by those anxious to expand its meaning to the very limits of
offical censorship and concealment." (JFK)
A MUST LISTEN:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...99905805&q=JFK

"No war ever posed a greater threat to our security. A monolithic and
ruthless conspiracy"
On the illuminati and zionism:
http://www.erichufschmid.net/Benjami...nsSpeech16.mp3
http://usa-the-republic.com/audio/index.html

Daryl Bradford Smith:
www.iamthewitness.com
Professor Steven Jones proof of WTC demolition explosives:
http://www.physics.byu.edu/research/energy/htm7.html



"john" wrote in message
...
Do Vaccines Disable the Immune System?
Randall Neustaedter OMD, LAc
-----------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.cure-guide.com/Vaccine_Gu...e_system_damag
e_from_vacc/immune_system_damage_from_vacc.html
------------------------------------------------
Vaccines are destroying our immune systems. Amazingly, the medical
profession ignores the incriminating evidence against vaccines, and
continues to inflict more unnecessary and harmful vaccines on our nation's
infants

What is the effect of long-term immune suppression? Some investigators
are concerned that vaccines could be disabling our body's ability to react
normally to disease, and creating the climate for autoimmune
self-destruction. The many reports of autoimmune phenomena that occur as
reactions to vaccination provide incontrovertible proof that tampering
with
the immune system causes devastating disease.
------------------------------------------------------------

Parents watch with proud satisfaction as their infant, just a few months
old, begins to reach out into the world-tiny hands grasping at toys and
gently twirling locks of their mother's hair. Just when they have begun to
take a lively interest in the world, rolling-over, cooing, and smiling,
the
first illnesses strike.

The baby's runny nose develops into a fever, fussiness, and
night-waking. Her previously placid demeanor suddenly changes to obvious
discomfort-crying, clinging, refusing to leave her mother's arms. The
pediatrician sees red eardrums and prescribes antibiotics. That first
infection starts a seemingly endless battle against viral and bacterial
illnesses that persists despite repeated treatment with a barrage of
different antibiotics. Something is dreadfully wrong. Frequent visits to
the pediatrician do nothing to prevent the continuous pattern of
illness-antibiotic-illness.

Why do these illnesses begin when babies are three or four months
old? What event triggers this frustrating scenario? What happens to babies
at two to four months that could initiate this relentless course of
symptoms? Perhaps maternal antibodies are beginning to wear out, making
babies susceptible to these environmental microbes. But why don't these
babies develop their own antibodies in response to the initial viral or
bacterial infections? What prevents the immune system from mounting a
vigorous response? And why does this pattern of illness with recurrent ear
infections occur now, a pattern that seldom occurred prior to thirty years
ago? What is weakening the immune function of today's infants?

The only event that all infants routinely encounter at two months of
age is vaccination with at least five different vaccines
(Diphtheria-Tetanus-Pertussis-Polio-Hemophilus). They are repeated at four
months. Could this simple fact explain the onset of the recurrent
illnesses
that plague so many infants? If vaccines stimulate antibody production to
fight diseases, why would they weaken the immune system? Is there any
evidence that vaccines do cause illness and immune system dysfunction?

One answer came in a careful study of illness patterns observed in
babies before and after vaccination. If vaccines cause a weakened immune
system, then we would expect to see a higher incidence of illness
following
vaccination. In that study the incidence of acute illnesses in the 30 day
period following DTP vaccine was compared to the incidence in the same
children for the 30 day period prior to vaccine. The three-day period
immediately following vaccine was excluded because children frequently
develop fever as a direct response to vaccine toxins. A total of 82
healthy
infants received DTP, and their symptoms were reported by parents and
observed by a pediatrician at weekly intervals. Those babies experienced a
dramatic increase in fever, diarrhea, and cough in the month following DTP
vaccine compared to their health before the shot (Jaber et al., 1988).

The incidence of asthma has steadily increased in the modern
era. During the period 1980 through 1989 the prevalence rate of
self-reported asthma in the United States increased 38 percent, and the
death rate for asthma increased 46 percent (Centers for Disease Control,
1992). In the five years from 1985 through 1990, projected estimates for
asthma's medical costs increased 53 percent. The total estimated cost of
asthma rose from $4.5 billion to $6.2 billion, or 1 percent of all US
health-care costs (Weiss et al., 1992). This dramatic increase has been
attributed to increased exposure to environmental pollutants, and to the
toxic effect of asthma medications themselves.

Could vaccines be weakening the immune system of our populations and
causing asthma and allergies at unprecedented levels? A recent study
suggests the answer is yes. A team of New Zealand researchers, found a
greater rate of asthma and allergy episodes among immunized children. Of
1,265 children born in 1977, the 23 who did not receive the
diphtheria/pertussis/tetanus shot had no recorded asthma or allergy
problems before age 10. Of the children who were vaccinated, 23.1 percent
had asthma episodes, and 30 percent had consultations for other allergic
illnesses (Kemp, et al., 1997).

How do researchers investigate immune system reactions to vaccines?
First, they can observe the incidence of serious disease onset soon after
vaccination. They can also study immune functions following vaccines given
to children and adults. Two research models have been used to discover the
possible adverse effect of vaccines on the immune system. Laboratory
researchers observe whether vaccines have any negative effect on white
blood cells, the body's primary immune defense system. Clinical
researchers
study illness patterns preceding and following vaccination. All of these
investigative channels have reached the same conclusions-vaccines can
trigger immune system suppression.

Vaccines are destroying our immune systems. Amazingly, the medical
profession ignores the incriminating evidence against vaccines, and
continues to inflict more unnecessary and harmful vaccines on our nation's
infants. A recent study from the New England Journal of Medicine reported
by Time magazine and the Associated Press revealed that tetanus vaccine
disables the immune system in HIV patients. Tetanus vaccination produced a
drop in T cells in 10 of 13 patients, a classic sign of immune deficiency.
HIV viral replication increased dramatically in response to tetanus
vaccine. Finally, white blood cells from 7 of 10 uninfected individuals
became more susceptible to HIV infection following tetanus vaccination.
Despite these findings, the authors made no comment about the immune
depleting effect of the vaccine (Stanley et al., 1996).

Why is the public unaware of these findings? Why has the medical
profession kept these reports hidden from the public eye? With typical
condescension, Dr. Martin Smith, president of the American Academy of
Pediatrics, explained that the inclusion of this type of information in
vaccine brochures "would confuse many parents and could even needlessly
alarm them" (AAP News, 1989). An uninformed patient is compliant.

The cover-up of immune system failure following vaccination is
reminiscent of the tobacco industry's continuous denial and disinformation
campaign about the dangers of cigarettes. In both instances huge profits
are at stake in multibillion-dollar industries. Vaccine manufacturers
cannot afford to have their product maligned in a public forum.

Doctors have often stated that broadcasting adverse effects of
vaccines to the public would hinder the vaccine campaign. This attitude
emerged in congressional hearings more than thirty years ago.

It is hard to convince the public that something is good. Consequently,
the best way to push forward a new program is to decide on what you think
the best decision is and not question it thereafter, and further, not to
raise questions before the public or expose the public to open discussion
of the issues (Intensive Immunization Programs, Hearings, 1962).

The medical profession has been aware of the damaging effects of
vaccines on the immune system since their introduction. For example, the
ability of pertussis and DTP vaccines to stimulate the onset of paralytic
polio was first noted in 1909. In every polio epidemic since then DTP
injections have caused the onset of polio disease.

In 1950, two careful studies were conducted in the state of New York
to evaluate the reports of an association between the onset of paralytic
polio and recent injections. Investigators contacted the families of all
children who contracted polio during that year, a total of 1,300 cases in
New York City and 2,137 cases in the remainder of New York State. A
history
of vaccinations received in the previous two months was obtained on each
child and from a group of matched controls in the same population. Those
studies discovered that children with polio were twice as likely to have
received a DTP vaccination in the two months preceding the onset of polio
than were the control children (Korns et al., 1952; Greenberg et al.,
1952).

The association of vaccines with the onset of polio continues in the
modern age. During a recent polio epidemic in Oman, DTP vaccination again
caused the onset of paralytic polio In that epidemic, 70 children 5 to 24
months old contracted paralytic polio during the period 1988-1989. When
compared to a control group of children without polio, it was found that a
significantly higher percentage of these children had received a DTP shot
within 30 days of the onset of polio, 43 percent of polio victims compared
to 28 percent of controls (Sutter et al., 1992). The DTP vaccine
suppresses
the body's ability to fight off the polio virus.

The destructive effect of vaccines on the immune system can persist
over an extended period of time. One study documented a long-term
depressive effect on interferon production. Interferon is a chemical
produced by lymphocytes (a type of white blood cell) that renders the host
resistant to infection. Interferon production is stimulated by infection
with a virus to protect the body from superinfection by some other
organism. In this study, vaccination of one-year-old infants with measles
vaccine caused a precipitous drop in the level of alpha-interferon
produced
by lymphocytes. This decline persisted for one year following vaccination,
at which time the experiment was terminated. Thus, this study showed that
measles vaccine produced a significant long-term immune suppression
(Nakayama et al., 1988)

Autoimmune Reactions to Vaccines
· An 11 year old girl received a routine tetanus booster dose and
three days later developed blindness in the right eye and light perception
only in the left eye. Her optic discs were swollen on exam. Two days later
she had partial paralysis of her legs and loss of bladder control, then
more widespread sensory loss including a lack of vibrational and
positional
senses. Seven weeks later she still had some vision loss and decreased
muscle power. Within one year she recovered (Topaloglu et al., 1992).

· A 20 year old woman experienced pain and swelling of her right
wrist and fingers 4 days after a hepatitis vaccination. The pain and
swelling resolved, but returned again 6 months later with more severe
swelling and pain, following a second hepatitis vaccination. Nine years
later, X-ray of the hands showed destruction of the bones throughout her
wrist joints (Gross et al., 1995).

· A 4 year old girl developed progressive weakness of the legs,
pain in the legs and feet, and gradual inability to walk 10 days after Hib
vaccination. On the fifth day she had swallowing difficulties, facial
weakness, and a monotonous voice. Her symptoms gradually improved, and
within 3 weeks she could walk with help (Gervaix et al., 1993).

· A 42 year old man received tetanus toxoid on three separate
occasions over a period of 13 years. Following each vaccination he
developed acute nerve symptoms diagnosed as Guillain-Barré syndrome, a
disease of the nervous system characterized by rapid onset of motor
weakness and loss of sensation. (Pollard & Selby, 1978). A nerve biopsy
revealed destruction of the myelin nerve sheath. Following his last
injection he continued to experience multiple recurrences, and continued
to
show abnormal findings on examination 15 years later (Pollard, 1993).

What is the effect of long-term immune suppression? Some
investigators are concerned that vaccines could be disabling our body's
ability to react normally to disease, and creating the climate for
autoimmune self-destruction. The many reports of autoimmune phenomena that
occur as reactions to vaccination provide incontrovertible proof that
tampering with the immune system causes devastating disease.

Federal legislation of 1986 commissioned the Institute of Medicine
to establish a Vaccine Safety Committee. The purpose of that committee was
to search the medical literature for reports of adverse events associated
with the vaccines routinely administered to children, and report their
findings. Computer searches revealed 1,800 relevant articles. However, the
committee's rigid criteria for establishing a causal relationship between
vaccine and adverse event made it nearly impossible for a disease
condition
to make their short list. Without a case-controlled study proving a
relationship, the hundreds of case reports of immune system destruction
following vaccines were relegated to coincidence. Case-controlled studies
are expensive. They must include tens or hundreds of thousands of
children.

Even the Vaccine Safety Committee acknowledged the onset of several
autoimmune diseases as a result of vaccination (Guillain-Barré syndrome
following tetanus and polio vaccines, that causes muscle weakness and
paralysis; thrombocytopenia, destruction of blood platelets responsible
for
blood clotting, following MMR; and chronic arthritis following rubella).
These types of symptoms have occurred following every vaccine routinely
given to children-the suppressed immune system begins to attack the body's
own cells, usually the nerves and joints. Thousands of autoimmune
incidents
following vaccines have been reported in the medical literature and
adverse
event reporting systems (Neustaedter, 1996). These autoimmune responses to
vaccines have resulted in permanent, chronic disease conditions-deforming
arthritis and muscle wasting and paralysis.

In their attempt to explain the repeated occurrence of autoimmune
diseases that attack and destroy the myelin sheaths of nerves as a direct
result of vaccines, the committee members explain:

It is biologically plausible that injection of an inactivated virus,
bacterium, or live attenuated virus might induce in the susceptible host
an
autoimmune response by deregulation of the immune response, by nonspecific
activation of the T cells directed against myelin proteins, or by
autoimmuniity triggered by sequence similarities of proteins in the
vaccine
to host proteins such as those of myelin (Institute of Medicine, 1994).

Since the committee's report, a large ecological study in New
Zealand revealed that an epidemic of diabetes followed a massive campaign
to vaccinate children against hepatitis B. This report, published in the
New Zealand Medical Journal in 1996 revealed that a 60 percent increase in
childhood diabetes occurred in the years following the
1989-1991vaccination
program of chidren aged 6 to 16. The widespread use of the new Haemophilus
meningitis vaccine has similarly resulted in diabetes epidemics. Diabetes
is an autoimmune disease that has been frequently observed to occur as a
consequence of mumps vaccine (Fescharek et al., 1990; Helmke et al.,
1986).
The dramatic rise in vaccine-induced diabetes has led researchers to raise
a warning flag. "We believe the effects of vaccines on diabetes are of
tremendous clinical importance and that trials need to be started
immediately to address the effect of vaccines on diabetes and other
autoimmune diseases (Classen & Classen,
1996).

Vaccines have become a sacred cow of our culture, unassailable to
criticism. Now that we know their devastating effects on the immune
system,
perhaps we need to take a more cautious approach to the vaccine campaigns.
The zealous rush to bring new vaccines to market may be setting the stage
for the unwitting destruction of our population's immune system integrity.

References
AAP News Vaccine brochures: AAP proposes changes. June 1989, p 2.
Centers for Disease Control. Asthma - United States, 1980-1990. MMWR
(Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report) 1992, 41:733-735.
Classen, J.B. Childhood immunisation and diabetes mellitus. New Zealand
Medical Journal 1996; 109;195.
Classen, J.B. and Classen, D.C. Vaccines modulate IDDM.
Diabetologia1996; 39:500-501.
Fescharek, R., Quast U., Maass, G. et al. Measles-mumps vaccination in
the FRG: an empirical analysis after 14 years of use. II. Tolerability and
analysis of spontaneously reported side effects. Vaccine 1990; 8:446-456.
Greenberg, M., Abrahamson, H., Cooper, H.M., Solomon, H.E. The relation
between recent injections and paralytic poliomyelitis in children.
American
Journal of Public Health 1952; 42:142-152.
Gross, K., Combe, C., Krüger, K., Schattenkirchner, M. Arthritis after
hepatitis vaccination: report of three cases. Scandinavian Journal
Rheumatology 1995; 24:50-52.
Helmke, K., Otten, A., Willems, W.R. et al. Islet cell antibodies and
the development of diabetes mellitus in relation to mumps infection and
mumps vaccination. Diabetologia 1986; 29:30-33.
Institute of Medicine, Adverse Events Associated with Childhood
Vaccines: Evidence Bearing on Causality. Washington, DC: National Academy
Press, 1994.
Intensive Immunization Programs. Hearings before the Committee on
Interstate and Foreign Commerce, House of Representatives, 87th Congress,
2nd Session on H.R. 10541. Washington, DC: US Government Printing Office,
1962.
Jaber, L., Shohat, M., Mimouni, M. Infectious episodes following
diphtheria-pertussis-tetanus vaccination: a preliminary observation in
infants. Clinical Pediatrics 1988; 27:491-494.
Kemp, Trudi; Pearce, Neil; Fitzharris, Penny; et al. Results of the
Christchurch Health and Development Study. Epidemiology 1997, 8:678.
Korns, R.F., Albrecht, R.M., Locke, F.B. The association of parenteral
injections with poliomyelitis. American Journal of Public Health 1952;
42:153-169.
Nakayama, T., Urano, T., Osano, M., et al. Long-term regulation of
interferon production by lymphocytes from children inoculated with live
measles virus vaccine. Journal of Infectious Diseases 1988; 158:1386-1390.
Neustaedter, R. The Vaccine Guide: Making an Informed Choice. Berkeley,
CA: North Atlantic Books, 1996.
Stanley, S.K., Ostrowski, M.A., Justement, J.S., et al. Effect of
immunization with a common recall antigen on viral _expression in patients
infected with human immunodeficiency virus type 1.New England Journal of
Medicine 1996; 334:1222-1230.
Sutter, R.W., Patriarca, P.A., Suleiman, A.J.M. et al. Attributable risk
of DTP (diphtheria and tetanus toxoids and pertussis vaccine) injection in
provoking paralytic poliomyelitis during a large outbreak in Oman. Journal
of Infectious Disease 1992; 165:444-449.
Weiss, K.B., Gergen, P.J., Hodgson, T.A. An economic evaluation of
asthma in the United States. New England Journal of Medicine 1992; 326:
862-866.

"Bryan Heit" wrote in message
...
You forget, John hates children. He wants them do die...

Bryan

whereas Bryan kills them with vaccines http://www.whale.to/vaccine/mmr2.html

http://www.whale.to/vaccines/deaths.html

do you have any kids Bryan?

"Bryan Heit" wrote in message
...
And yet again, John has dodged the issue and failed to respond to even one
of the scientific studies I linked to, or my comments. Rather, he fell
back onto his usual "it's all lies" claims. Of course he has no proof,
but we can't blame him. It's hard to find proof for fantasies.

I think he's a coward - he too afraid to actually read the studies as he
may actually have to consider his long-held beliefs...

If you keep expecting him to use logic and real evidence, he might even make
a web page for you. He did for me.

Jeff

Bryan

"HCN" wrote in message
. ..

wrote in message
oups.com...


My brother in Germany informs me that the Germans as a rule are averse
to vaccines and also antibiotics. They prefer to expose their children
to measles etc. to get them naturally immunised. The doctors too do not
press too hard and prescribe the minimum medication. My brother says
despite all this the Germans are very healthy and very few suffer from
serious ailments. Any comments?

Jagannath.


Then he will really like this website:
http://www.ariplex.com/ama/ama_p0.htm

This is Happy Oyster. He flooded this ng and smd with his lies.

He posted my pic which clearly showed I am female. He continued to call me
a HE.

"Bryan Heit" wrote in message
...
You forget, John hates children. He wants them do die...

Bryan

YOU do not know this. It is ABSURD.

Typically from brain washed *organized (deaf, dumb and blind) medicine jerks
like you.

"Bryan Heit" wrote in message
...
And yet again, John has dodged the issue and failed to respond to even one
of the scientific studies I linked to, or my comments. Rather, he fell
back onto his usual "it's all lies" claims. Of course he has no proof,
but we can't blame him. It's hard to find proof for fantasies.

I think he's a coward - he too afraid to actually read the studies as he
may actually have to consider his long-held beliefs...

Bryan

Read his websites. MUCH information there. Lots of hard work.

Unlike...YOU who is here to blow off with your *organized medicine beliefs*.

"Jeff" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Bryan Heit" wrote in message
...
And yet again, John has dodged the issue and failed to respond to even
one of the scientific studies I linked to, or my comments. Rather, he
fell back onto his usual "it's all lies" claims. Of course he has no
proof, but we can't blame him. It's hard to find proof for fantasies.

I think he's a coward - he too afraid to actually read the studies as he
may actually have to consider his long-held beliefs...

If you keep expecting him to use logic and real evidence, he might even
make a web page for you. He did for me.

Jeff

Yes, he exposed your LIES!

Bryan

john wrote:
"Arthur Brain" wrote in message
oups.com...

uh, hang on - maybe these anti-vaccination lunatics actually *have*
irreversible brain damage?

At least we can back up our opinions, unlike you who just likes to blow off,
get yourself a wank mag instead

I don't have opinions, I rely on facts.

The facts show quite clearly that where vaccination rates are too low,
epidemics of these diseases occur.

You snipped the facts, so here they are again:

http://www.eurosurveillance.org/ew/2006/060511.asp

The reported number of measles cases linked to the current outbreak in
the federal state (Land) of Nordrhein Westfalen, in the west of
Germany, has now risen to over 1000 [1]. Between 1 January and 3 May
2006, 1018 cases were notified to the health authorities, and this
number is believed to be an underestimate, as some cases are not
notified, or are not diagnosed.

In recent weeks, the number of notified measles cases has been stable
at around 120-140 cases per week. No significant decrease has yet been
observed during the school holidays. Particularly efficient
transmission has been noted in the Nordrhein region, where 56 cases of
measles per 100 000 inhabitants have been reported in the city of
Duisburg, 33 per 100 000 inhabitants in the district of Wesel and 53
per 100 000 inhabitants in the district of Mönchengladbach.

Age distribution
School-age children are still the main group affected, representing
over 60% of all reported cases. There have been 252 cases reported in
children aged 10-14 years, 198 cases reported in children aged 15-19,
and 186 cases reported in children aged 5-9. Sixty four cases in
children under one year old have also been reported (Figure).

Figure. Age distribution of reported measles cases in Nordrhein
Westfalen, 1 January - 3 May 2006. N=1018.

Vaccination status
The majority of patients have not been vaccinated against measles.
According to current data, only 25 patients (2.5%) had received a full
course of vaccination against measles (2 doses of measles, mumps and
rubella (MMR) vaccine).

Complications
About 15% of the patients required hospital admission. Two cases with
serious complications (measles encephalitis) have been reported. Other
reported complications include 20 cases of lung infection and 17
middle-ear infections.

"Jan Drew" wrote in message
.com...

"Jeff" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Bryan Heit" wrote in message
...
And yet again, John has dodged the issue and failed to respond to even
one of the scientific studies I linked to, or my comments. Rather, he
fell back onto his usual "it's all lies" claims. Of course he has no
proof, but we can't blame him. It's hard to find proof for fantasies.

I think he's a coward - he too afraid to actually read the studies as he
may actually have to consider his long-held beliefs...

If you keep expecting him to use logic and real evidence, he might even
make a web page for you. He did for me.

Jeff

Yes, he exposed your LIES!

No, he didn't. But YOUR lies have been exposed. You are a liar and a thief
and have no high ground from which to call others liars.
--


--Rich

Recommended websites:

http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
http://www.acahf.org.au
http://www.quackwatch.org/
http://www.skeptic.com/
http://www.csicop.org/