Fake names helped mom adopt 11 New York children: welfare agency:received $1.26 million in stipends to help care for the kids, Authoritiesin Florida, however, say she received up to $2 million in payments from NewYork City.

On Aug 5, 5:19 pm, Greegor wrote:
Dan Sullivan's little girl said:

"My daddy touched me with the puppet bear in the toilet."

G Did you touch her with something in the toilet?
G What is a puppet bear? (Condom?)

G Was your daughter being truthful when she said this?
G Why were you anywhere near the toilet when she was in there Dan?

G How old was this little girl, Dan?

FM Your girlfriends daughter said you washed
FM her private parts with your bare hands greg,

No she didn't.

Were you in the room with the little girl when she was interviewed bt
the CW?

Was Lisa in the room?

You did admit putting your hands on the girl and forcing her into the
shower.

How many times did you put your hands on her to force her into the
cold showers?

And don't tell me she got in willingly.

Standard caseworker tactic to LIE and hope she could
get a confession.
The girl never said that at all.

Did you get a copy of the video/audio tape?

They got bupkis and were DESPERATE to make a case.

But is WAS documented in the caserecord.

Something about the other caseworker's PERJURY and
controlling the child for 21 days with NO COURT AUTHORIZATION.

The OTHER CW?

Are you claiming that since the other CW supposedly committed perjury
the CW who documented the little girl saying you washed her privates
with your bare hands had to be lying?

On Aug 5, 3:41 pm, firemonkey wrote:
On Aug 3, 10:17 pm, Greegor wrote:





Why do these stories refer to 2 million or 1.3 million?

9 to 11 kids all special needs, $55 per day, for MANY years.

Splitting the difference and saying 10 kids yields $550 per day.
x30 days per month 16,500 monthly take.

x12 months yields 198,000 per year

x24 years she's been doing this yields $ 4,752,000.00

That's 4.75 Million dollars.

So WHY are they saying she ripped off 2 million?
The math shows that amount is oddly low!

There was a comment in Florida from somebody who
Leekin had approached them personally seeking help
to deposit $20 (or 30) Million into an off shore account.

What else was this Leekin woman connected to?

A RING of people grifting this way from the system?

Question:
Did she qualify for Food Stamps for all of these people?

Food stamps for Fosters/adopters are disconnected
from the caretakers income aren't they?

Dan and Firemonkey, Can you offer any answers?

On Aug 2, 11:54 pm, fx wrote:

Fake names helped mom adopt 11 New York children: welfare agency

By BRIAN SKOLOFF | Associated Press Writer
4:35 PM EDT, August 2, 2007

http://www.amny.com/news/local/wire/...buse-adoptedch...

WEST PALM BEACH, Fla. - A woman accused of abusing her 11 adopted
children and bilking New York City out of nearly $1.3 million gained
custody of the kids through six adoption processes using four fakes
names, authorities said Thursday.

Judith Leekin, of Port St. Lucie, used the four aliases at separate
agencies in New York City to adopt the children between July 1988 and
April 1996 and never once used her real name, said Sharman Stein, a
spokeswoman for the New York City Administration for Children's
Services, a child welfare agency.

Stein said Leekin, 62, received $1.26 million in stipends to help care
for the kids.

Authorities in Florida, however, say she received up to $2 million in
payments from New York City. They say the children _ who now range in
age from 15 to 27 _ told them Leekin never took them to see a doctor or
dentist and never allowed them to attend school.

Leekin is charged with 10 counts of abuse, among other things. She
handcuffed the children and tethered them together at night, forcing
them to sleep on a cold tile floor and soil themselves because they
weren't allowed to use the bathroom, prosecutors said. She could face up
to 190 years in prison if convicted on all counts.

Her attorney, Mario Garcia, said he has filed a not guilty plea. Her
arraignment is set for Aug. 17.

Leekin's biological son spoke out recently in his mother's defense.

"She's a loving caring mom and grandma," the son told New York's
WCBS-TV, which did not name him and did not show his face. "I'm her only
son. ... You don't see me driving a BMW. I'm renting my apartment. The
$2 million I'd love to see."

Port St. Lucie police have said that Leekin would likely face more
charges and that others could be arrested for helping her. They would
not elaborate.

The Florida Department of Children & Families investigated a complaint
of child abuse against Leekin in 1999, but the case was later closed and
the records are sealed.

"There was absolutely no indication of child abuse on any of the victims
that they saw at that time," DCF spokeswoman Ellen Higinbotham said.

However, New York City officials said they have no record of Florida
ever contacting them in 1999, a move that may have raised red flags
since Leekin never used her real name to adopt the children.

"But that would be considered part of standard practice if they wanted
to see what the earlier jurisdiction might have known about this
individual," Stein said.

Higinbotham could not say whether such a call was made. However, she
said DCF investigators would not be required to determine whether the
children were adopted or where they were from. She declined to say
whether DCF knew in this case that the children had been adopted in New
York.

New York City officials believe Leekin may have been able to fool the
system because it wasn't until 1999 that adoption agencies there began
requiring fingerprints from prospective parents.

Stein said Leekin adopted her first child using an alias in July 1988.
She said Leekin then adopted three more under another alias in May 1993
and three more using yet another fake name in June 1994. She said Leekin
adopted two more children _ one in December 1994 and one in June 1995 _
using that alias and then adopted two more under a fourth false name in
April 1996.

Authorities allege Leekin was using the children as a cottage industry
to line her pockets with subsidy payments while abusing and neglecting them.

People who adopt special needs children in New York City can get as much
as $55 a day until the child turns 21. Stein said all the children
adopted by Leekin were deemed to have special needs.

Ten of the children and adults are now in Florida state care. One is
blind and mumbles. Another can barely walk or stand. None appears to
have more than a fourth-grade education.

Police were still searching for an 18-year-old believed to have been
among the 11 adopted children.

Firemonkey wrote
greg asks" Dan and Firemonkey, Can you offer any answers?"
I can't greg,I do not know anything about how children in foster care
are funded. Sorry.

Firemonkey, how many dollars in FOOD STAMPS do you
get each month for your special needs kid?

On Aug 5, 5:51 pm, Greegor wrote:
On Aug 5, 3:41 pm, firemonkey wrote:





On Aug 3, 10:17 pm, Greegor wrote:

Why do these stories refer to 2 million or 1.3 million?

9 to 11 kids all special needs, $55 per day, for MANY years.

Splitting the difference and saying 10 kids yields $550 per day.
x30 days per month 16,500 monthly take.

x12 months yields 198,000 per year

x24 years she's been doing this yields $ 4,752,000.00

That's 4.75 Million dollars.

So WHY are they saying she ripped off 2 million?
The math shows that amount is oddly low!

There was a comment in Florida from somebody who
Leekin had approached them personally seeking help
to deposit $20 (or 30) Million into an off shore account.

What else was this Leekin woman connected to?

A RING of people grifting this way from the system?

Question:
Did she qualify for Food Stamps for all of these people?

Food stamps for Fosters/adopters are disconnected
from the caretakers income aren't they?

Dan and Firemonkey, Can you offer any answers?

On Aug 2, 11:54 pm, fx wrote:

Fake names helped mom adopt 11 New York children: welfare agency

By BRIAN SKOLOFF | Associated Press Writer
4:35 PM EDT, August 2, 2007

http://www.amny.com/news/local/wire/...buse-adoptedch...

WEST PALM BEACH, Fla. - A woman accused of abusing her 11 adopted
children and bilking New York City out of nearly $1.3 million gained
custody of the kids through six adoption processes using four fakes
names, authorities said Thursday.

Judith Leekin, of Port St. Lucie, used the four aliases at separate
agencies in New York City to adopt the children between July 1988 and
April 1996 and never once used her real name, said Sharman Stein, a
spokeswoman for the New York City Administration for Children's
Services, a child welfare agency.

Stein said Leekin, 62, received $1.26 million in stipends to help care
for the kids.

Authorities in Florida, however, say she received up to $2 million in
payments from New York City. They say the children _ who now range in
age from 15 to 27 _ told them Leekin never took them to see a doctor or
dentist and never allowed them to attend school.

Leekin is charged with 10 counts of abuse, among other things. She
handcuffed the children and tethered them together at night, forcing
them to sleep on a cold tile floor and soil themselves because they
weren't allowed to use the bathroom, prosecutors said. She could face up
to 190 years in prison if convicted on all counts.

Her attorney, Mario Garcia, said he has filed a not guilty plea. Her
arraignment is set for Aug. 17.

Leekin's biological son spoke out recently in his mother's defense.

"She's a loving caring mom and grandma," the son told New York's
WCBS-TV, which did not name him and did not show his face. "I'm her only
son. ... You don't see me driving a BMW. I'm renting my apartment. The
$2 million I'd love to see."

Port St. Lucie police have said that Leekin would likely face more
charges and that others could be arrested for helping her. They would
not elaborate.

The Florida Department of Children & Families investigated a complaint
of child abuse against Leekin in 1999, but the case was later closed and
the records are sealed.

"There was absolutely no indication of child abuse on any of the victims
that they saw at that time," DCF spokeswoman Ellen Higinbotham said.

However, New York City officials said they have no record of Florida
ever contacting them in 1999, a move that may have raised red flags
since Leekin never used her real name to adopt the children.

"But that would be considered part of standard practice if they wanted
to see what the earlier jurisdiction might have known about this
individual," Stein said.

Higinbotham could not say whether such a call was made. However, she
said DCF investigators would not be required to determine whether the
children were adopted or where they were from. She declined to say
whether DCF knew in this case that the children had been adopted in New
York.

New York City officials believe Leekin may have been able to fool the
system because it wasn't until 1999 that adoption agencies there began
requiring fingerprints from prospective parents.

Stein said Leekin adopted her first child using an alias in July 1988.
She said Leekin then adopted three more under another alias in May 1993
and three more using yet another fake name in June 1994. She said Leekin
adopted two more children _ one in December 1994 and one in June 1995 _
using that alias and then adopted two more under a fourth false name in
April 1996.

Authorities allege Leekin was using the children as a cottage industry
to line her pockets with subsidy payments while abusing and neglecting them.

People who adopt special needs children in New York City can get as much
as $55 a day until the child turns 21. Stein said all the children
adopted by Leekin were deemed to have special needs.

Ten of the children and adults are now in Florida state care. One is
blind and mumbles. Another can barely walk or stand. None appears to
have more than a fourth-grade education.

Police were still searching for an 18-year-old believed to have been
among the 11 adopted children.

Firemonkey wrote

greg asks" Dan and Firemonkey, Can you offer any answers?"
I can't greg,I do not know anything about how children in foster care
are funded. Sorry.

Firemonkey, how many dollars in FOOD STAMPS do you
get each month for your special needs kid?

Isn't it $600?

How's the new two story wing with the olympic sized swimming pool?

Did SS pay for the water falls and koi pond?

Is the chauffeur full time or just days?

On Aug 5, 4:07 pm, Dan Sullivan wrote:
On Aug 5, 4:50 pm, Greegor wrote:

G Why do these stories refer to 2 million or 1.3 million?
G 9 to 11 kids all special needs, $55 per day, for MANY years?
G Splitting the difference and saying 10 kids yields $550 per day.
G x30 days per month 16,500 monthly take.
G x12 months yields 198,000 per year
G x24 years she's been doing this yields $ 4,752,000.00
G That's 4.75 Million dollars.
G So WHY are they saying she ripped off 2 million?
G The math shows that amount is oddly low!
G There was a comment in Florida from somebody who
G Leekin had approached them personally seeking help
G to deposit $20 (or 30) Million into an off shore account.
G What else was this Leekin woman connected to?
G A RING of people grifting this way from the system?
G Question:
G Did she qualify for Food Stamps for all of these people?
G Food stamps for Fosters/adopters are disconnected
G from the caretakers income aren't they?
G Dan and Firemonkey, Can you offer any answers?
DS Sure Greg.
DS To the question "Can you describe Greg Hanson?"
DS Answer; he's an asshole.
krp Danny STILL making EXCUSES for CPS
krp and the adoption RACKET aren't ya?
G Dan, Why do you try to deflect from every huge
G CPS fiasco and PR disaster by launching insults
G directed at me?
Dan Sullivan wrote "Cause you're YOU, Greg. Simple as that.
G You didn't criticize the MATH that says the
G figure claimed by the media is LOW.
DS I didn't look at the math.

What WERE you looking at Dan?

Something else, obviously.

G You ignored the money laundering bit.
DS So?

WHY would a Family Rights person let that big one slip?

I didn't read it.

I don't read everything on asCPS, Greg

Doesn't it bother you a bit that this woman was
trying to money launder over $20 Million dollars
to an off shore account?

I think it bothers you a LOT more than me, Greg.

You're not worried about her co-conspirators in the racket?
Did you REALLY think she did this alone?

G You even ignored the question about whether
G this person was able to collect FOOD STAMPS.
G without regard for HER financial holdings or earnings.
DS Well, when you get the answer to the food stamp
DS question, post it... and I'll insult you all over again.

Are we having fun yet?

GFYS... now I am.

It's a flaming hoop you jump through any time I want! LOL

G You just launched more insults toward me?
DS Yes, I did.
G Do you think CPS SEVERELY UNDER REPORTED
G the DOLLARS that MOTIVATED THIS
G EVIL JUDITH LEEKIN WOMAN?
DS GFYS.
G Why are you so touchy about the question Dan?
DS Which question?
G THIS ONE!
G Do you think CPS SEVERELY UNDER REPORTED
G the DOLLARS that MOTIVATED THIS
G EVIL JUDITH LEEKIN WOMAN?
DS GFYS.

DS I don't know.

Family Rights advocates generally DO know what to expect.
Sometimes you complain about their dishonesty, but
when the BIG MONEY is involved you get shy about
having a suspicion? Are you WAFFLING Dan?

You claim a LOT of experience with CPS and their
corrupt ways, yet you aren't quite SURE that
they would lie about the BIG MONEY?

Hilarious!

Why don't you just profess your ENDLESS LOVE
for the corrupt agencies Dan?

You're trying to bail out the Titanic with a Dixie Cup!

Isn't it embarassing to be such a butt kisser for the agencies?

DS There, I did it again!
G Why the hostile reaction when I posted comments
G about how the dollar figures in the Judith Leekin case
G were apparently UNDER PLAYED in the media?
DS Post the true facts... not your speculation.
G A news story reported $55 per day per child.
G How is the math beyond that speculation?
DS Who knows if that's accurate?
DS Now confirm all your other numbers.
G Check my MATH, Dan!
DS You need to prove all the figures in
DS your calculations are accurate and true.

Why in hell do I need to prove that?

To establish beyond a reasonable doubt that your conclusion as far as
the amount of money is accurate.

I don't need beyond a reasonable doubt!
I don't even need a PREPONDERANCE!
I don't need diddly squat to accuse the Child Protection INDUSTRY
of telling lies about the money this evil woman got for her RACKET!

The agencies just don't want to give me the information
that reveals what a corrupt bunch of *******s they are!

So you admit you conclusion isn't accurate.

No, I admit that the agencies are so crooked they
create a situation where YOU CANNOT KNOW in detail.

MY figures are as accurate as they can be based
on logical extrapolation.

As LONG as they're going to conceal the figures
I assert my right to make the best ESTIMATE I can!
If they don't LIKE that, well.... That's just TOO BAD!

Best estimate... meaning a guess on your part,

Extrapolation and Projection are valid mathematical concepts.
The agencies use them for FUNDING constantly.

Isn't it awful when these concepts work
AGAINST THE AGENCIES PUBLIC RELATIONS STANDING?

When they do this do you BUY IT?
I've asked this question several times and
you EVADE or dodge with GFYS.

I HEREBY ASK FOR A FULL PUBLIC ACCOUNTING!

WooWoo.

I'm sure THAT'LL do it.

Yes.

If CPS was forced into a public accounting, they
would have to hire the people who cooked the books
for the MOB or for ENRON.

G Isn't that my right?
DS To be an asshole?
DS It never stopped you before.

Cute!


Any moron who can MULTIPLY and knows
where a decimal point and commas go can
see they are being LIED TO about the numbers.

YOU are the nay sayer, but rather than finding any
actual mathematical or source fault with my
4.75 Million dollar figure, you issue general demands
for proof? Whose SIDE are you on?

I'm simply looking for accuracy in the calculations.

You are enabling stonewalling by CPS.
Looking for accuracy in this case is a delay tactic.

From this post of yours it appears you're just guessing.
Why do you seem to be protecting the AGENCIES?

I just want accuracy.

Get them to hand over the numbers then!

It'll take YEARS and enable more of the same abuses.
But that's what you intend right?

Against my evil mathematical assertions?

Get the hard figures and you can argue!
Until then, you and your buddies at the agencies
will just have to suffer the ravages of the
citizen with a dangerous calculator!! LOL

G The $55 per day for special needs kids came from an article.
G Beyond that it's simple to multiply by the number of kids,
G number of days in a month, number of months in a year,
G and 24 years (from an article).

DS Post the citations for each of the figures you used.

There is only one citation, $55 per day for special needs kids.
It is in one of the news articles on this VERY STORY
about Judith Leekin.

Beyond that it's simple MULTIPLICATION!
You can do that right?

x10 kids

For the entire length of time?

x30 days in month

Some months have more days, some less.

x12 months

Accurate.

x24 years

DUHHHHH.

She received money till all the children were 24 years old?

She ran this scam since the middle 1980's.

I think NOT!!!

How nice for you!

She was given 8 within TWO months, for example.
(Straight from a news story out of NY, Dan.)

Tear it up Dan!

DONE!!!!!

Whip out your agency threatening CALCULATOR! LOL
Anxious to protect your beloved agencies from
the ravages of a citizen with a calculator?

The ravages of a fool with a calculator.

Isn't DEMOCRACY a gas?
The US Constitution, gotta love it!

G The question about FOOD STAMPS is fairly obvious.
G As I understand it, with special needs kids, she was able
G to obtain Food Stamps for TEN PEOPLE with no regard
G to her holdings or earnings.

G Dan Sullivan, HOW MUCH would you estimate
G this JUDITH LEEKIN got in FOOD STAMPS EACH MONTH?

DS I don't know.

You don't know anybody who gets FOOD STAMPS?

No.

I hear it's around $140 per month, per head,
but CHECK MY FIGURE Dan! Ask around!
You must know somebody who gets a full draw.
Like a disabled person.

You ask around, Greg.

I did. I got $140 per month per head.

And don't forget to whip out your evil agency crushing calculator!

How much BOLOGNA and BREAD would that buy Dan?

You Family Rights reformer you! LOL

G As I understand it she was also able to obtain
G GRANT MONEY for adding onto her house as well.

DS Citations?

Ask Ron! Yeah, he is ANXIOUS to tell you publicly
about how much GRANT MONEY would be available
to somebody with TEN "special needs" kids!

If he won't tell you, then ask SHERMAN!

Come on! Come on! Be quick about it!

Time is money! Wouldn't want to drag this out and delay it!

Or would you?

DS Do you think the Child Protection INDUSTRY wants
DS that to be reported Dan?

Did you miss this question Dan?

Let's have it!

G Do YOU trust CPS to be fully forthcoming about
G the full funding amount involved?
DS More than trusting your speculations?
G DO YOU TRUST THE FIGURES FROM CPS DAN?
DS I haven't looked at them.
G Not the 2 million in the press or the 1.26 Million in the press?
G Haven't you looked at those numbers?
DS No.
G Head in the sand Dan?

Head in the sand, Dan?

G Dollar amounts severely under claimed.
DS See above.
G Simple math shows it to be MORE than claimed.
DS See above.
G Why no consideration when I asked about whether
G the evil Leekin woman (?) qualified to get
G FOOD STAMPS AS WELL? Or other funds?
DS You can ask anything you want, Greg.
G Did you think I needed your approval?
DS Did I say you did?
G Your big response was a lame insult of me?
DS That wasn't a big response.
DS That was a regular response.
G Was this a regular story, Dan?
G WHO are you looking out for Dan?
DS The next single mother you might victimize.
G You think she wouldn't see you trying to "skip away"
G from this news story or trying to shout me down for
G asking some good questions?
DS Do your own research, Greg, rather than
DS asking others to do it for you.
G Why am I an "asshole" for asking those questions?
DS You're an asshole for just being who you are and for what you've
done.
DS Criminal convictions for beating your
DS mentally ill wife... and abusing your
DS former girlfriends seven year old daughter.
G Do you think posting that reference comment from
G Doug will negate the effect of your comments here?
DS Not to idiots like you... and kenny boy.
G How do you think your distraction from such
G a big agency abuse story would appear to
G any new people looking in on this group?
DS I don't know.
G Do you think a newcomer would think my
G questions are bad, wrong or inappropriate?
DS I just want them to know you abused your
DS girlfriend's seven year old daughter back in
DS 2001 and the mother hasn't regained
DS custody since then.
G Dan Sullivan, Based on YOUR OWN WORDS
G You were investigated for child abuse 15 times
G and founded for child abuse 5 times.
DS And CPS has to reverse all five of their findings because
DS their decisions weren't based on any credible evidence.

G Which is THE USUAL from CPS and you know it!
G CPS itself is "not credible".

G One time you were even founded for
G sexually molesting your own little girl.
DS Despite the fact the Judge threw the charges out of court.

G The word "despite" is an acknowledgement that it was true.

DS No, it doesn't.

DS It means the Judge decided there was no evidence I did anything
wrong.
DS CPS disagreed, and they had to reverse their decision after an
DS Administrative Hearing.

G The two processes are supposed to be independant of each other.

DS They are.

G They're NOT but they are supposed to be.

DS Obviously what you claim wasn't true in my case.

How nice for you!

DS The "credible evidence" CPS used to make that
DS decision was a statement from my daughter,
DS which was "My daddy touched me with the
DS puppet bear in the toilet."

G So why did you do that Dan?

snip - refer to new thread

DS Then next sentence in the case record was
DS "We didn't know what she was trying to say."
DS How can something be credible when you don't know what it is?

G Hysteria. Like yours about showers.

G You never experienced child removal because
G you were a non custodial parent.
DS I had full custody at that time.

G NO YOU DIDN'T.
DS Sure I did.
DS Prove otherwise.

G Post your records.
DS It's your obligation to prove my statement wrong when you claim
it is.

It is?

Does that work BOTH WAYS?
Or is that a convenient one way street, Dan?

G Changing your story now Dan?
DS Not at all.

G How can a person with that experience
G play games with false accusations like you do?
DS Which false accusations?

G Naive innocent little Dan says "Who, me?"

DS Interesting.

DS You chose not to claim the accusations about the showers were
false.

Was it about the showers, or your INTERPRETATION of them?

Should we ask the "puppet bear" for the answer?

Sure, stick your face up REAL close and ask the puppet bear.
Make sure it's used puppet bear.

Used condom?

G Do you think your attempt to shout me down
G with insults would make you look good?
DS No, Make you look bad.
G Good luck with that.
G I thought you were worried about your PR?
G Did you give up on that Dan?
DS Not at all.
DS Now, GFYS.
G Good luck with that!
DS Are you posting from a Commdore 64?
DS What's with the software?
G Desperate for a distraction, Dan? Why would that be? chuckle
DS It's not a real distraction, Greg.
DS I'm just curious why you use this BS stuff.

What BS stuff?

The stuff that comes out of your mouth... and computer.

Kinda like what comes out of YOURS isn't it?
Don't you recognize your own argument style?

On Aug 5, 6:47 pm, Greegor wrote:
On Aug 5, 4:07 pm, Dan Sullivan wrote:

On Aug 5, 4:50 pm, Greegor wrote:

snip

Doesn't it bother you a bit that this woman was
trying to money launder over $20 Million dollars
to an off shore account?

I think it bothers you a LOT more than me, Greg.

You're not worried about her co-conspirators in the racket?

They should be the ones worrying.

Did you REALLY think she did this alone?

I don't know.

G You even ignored the question about whether
G this person was able to collect FOOD STAMPS.
G without regard for HER financial holdings or earnings.
DS Well, when you get the answer to the food stamp
DS question, post it... and I'll insult you all over again.

Are we having fun yet?

GFYS... now I am.

It's a flaming hoop you jump through any time I want! LOL

G You just launched more insults toward me?
DS Yes, I did.
G Do you think CPS SEVERELY UNDER REPORTED
G the DOLLARS that MOTIVATED THIS
G EVIL JUDITH LEEKIN WOMAN?
DS GFYS.
G Why are you so touchy about the question Dan?
DS Which question?
G THIS ONE!
G Do you think CPS SEVERELY UNDER REPORTED
G the DOLLARS that MOTIVATED THIS
G EVIL JUDITH LEEKIN WOMAN?
DS GFYS.

DS I don't know.

Family Rights advocates generally DO know what to expect.
Sometimes you complain about their dishonesty, but
when the BIG MONEY is involved you get shy about
having a suspicion? Are you WAFFLING Dan?

You claim a LOT of experience with CPS and their
corrupt ways, yet you aren't quite SURE that
they would lie about the BIG MONEY?

Hilarious!

Why don't you just profess your ENDLESS LOVE
for the corrupt agencies Dan?

You're trying to bail out the Titanic with a Dixie Cup!

Isn't it embarassing to be such a butt kisser for the agencies?

DS There, I did it again!
G Why the hostile reaction when I posted comments
G about how the dollar figures in the Judith Leekin case
G were apparently UNDER PLAYED in the media?
DS Post the true facts... not your speculation.
G A news story reported $55 per day per child.
G How is the math beyond that speculation?
DS Who knows if that's accurate?
DS Now confirm all your other numbers.
G Check my MATH, Dan!
DS You need to prove all the figures in
DS your calculations are accurate and true.

Why in hell do I need to prove that?

To establish beyond a reasonable doubt that your conclusion as far as
the amount of money is accurate.

I don't need beyond a reasonable doubt!
I don't even need a PREPONDERANCE!
I don't need diddly squat to accuse the Child Protection INDUSTRY
of telling lies about the money this evil woman got for her RACKET!

The agencies just don't want to give me the information
that reveals what a corrupt bunch of *******s they are!

So you admit you conclusion isn't accurate.

No, I admit that the agencies are so crooked they
create a situation where YOU CANNOT KNOW in detail.

MY figures are as accurate as they can be based
on logical extrapolation.

As LONG as they're going to conceal the figures
I assert my right to make the best ESTIMATE I can!
If they don't LIKE that, well.... That's just TOO BAD!

Best estimate... meaning a guess on your part,

Extrapolation and Projection are valid mathematical concepts.
The agencies use them for FUNDING constantly.

Isn't it awful when these concepts work
AGAINST THE AGENCIES PUBLIC RELATIONS STANDING?

When they do this do you BUY IT?
I've asked this question several times and
you EVADE or dodge with GFYS.

I HEREBY ASK FOR A FULL PUBLIC ACCOUNTING!

WooWoo.

I'm sure THAT'LL do it.

Yes.

If CPS was forced into a public accounting, they
would have to hire the people who cooked the books
for the MOB or for ENRON.

G Isn't that my right?
DS To be an asshole?
DS It never stopped you before.

Cute!

Any moron who can MULTIPLY and knows
where a decimal point and commas go can
see they are being LIED TO about the numbers.

YOU are the nay sayer, but rather than finding any
actual mathematical or source fault with my
4.75 Million dollar figure, you issue general demands
for proof? Whose SIDE are you on?

I'm simply looking for accuracy in the calculations.

You are enabling stonewalling by CPS.
Looking for accuracy in this case is a delay tactic.

What am I delaying?

From this post of yours it appears you're just guessing.
Why do you seem to be protecting the AGENCIES?

I just want accuracy.

Get them to hand over the numbers then!

It'll take YEARS and enable more of the same abuses.
But that's what you intend right?

Against my evil mathematical assertions?

Get the hard figures and you can argue!
Until then, you and your buddies at the agencies
will just have to suffer the ravages of the
citizen with a dangerous calculator!! LOL

G The $55 per day for special needs kids came from an article.
G Beyond that it's simple to multiply by the number of kids,
G number of days in a month, number of months in a year,
G and 24 years (from an article).

DS Post the citations for each of the figures you used.

There is only one citation, $55 per day for special needs kids.
It is in one of the news articles on this VERY STORY
about Judith Leekin.

Beyond that it's simple MULTIPLICATION!
You can do that right?

x10 kids

For the entire length of time?

x30 days in month

Some months have more days, some less.

x12 months

Accurate.

x24 years

DUHHHHH.

She received money till all the children were 24 years old?

She ran this scam since the middle 1980's.

Till the individuals were 24 years old?

I think NOT!!!

How nice for you!

She was given 8 within TWO months, for example.
(Straight from a news story out of NY, Dan.)

Tear it up Dan!

DONE!!!!!

Whip out your agency threatening CALCULATOR! LOL
Anxious to protect your beloved agencies from
the ravages of a citizen with a calculator?

The ravages of a fool with a calculator.

Isn't DEMOCRACY a gas?
The US Constitution, gotta love it!

G The question about FOOD STAMPS is fairly obvious.
G As I understand it, with special needs kids, she was able
G to obtain Food Stamps for TEN PEOPLE with no regard
G to her holdings or earnings.

G Dan Sullivan, HOW MUCH would you estimate
G this JUDITH LEEKIN got in FOOD STAMPS EACH MONTH?

DS I don't know.

You don't know anybody who gets FOOD STAMPS?

No.

I hear it's around $140 per month, per head,
but CHECK MY FIGURE Dan! Ask around!
You must know somebody who gets a full draw.
Like a disabled person.

You ask around, Greg.

I did. I got $140 per month per head.

And don't forget to whip out your evil agency crushing calculator!

How much BOLOGNA and BREAD would that buy Dan?

You Family Rights reformer you! LOL

G As I understand it she was also able to obtain
G GRANT MONEY for adding onto her house as well.

DS Citations?

Ask Ron! Yeah, he is ANXIOUS to tell you publicly
about how much GRANT MONEY would be available
to somebody with TEN "special needs" kids!

If he won't tell you, then ask SHERMAN!

Come on! Come on! Be quick about it!

Time is money! Wouldn't want to drag this out and delay it!

Or would you?

DS Do you think the Child Protection INDUSTRY wants
DS that to be reported Dan?

Did you miss this question Dan?

Let's have it!

G Do YOU trust CPS to be fully forthcoming about
G the full funding amount involved?
DS More than trusting your speculations?

G DO YOU TRUST THE FIGURES FROM CPS DAN?
DS I haven't looked at them.
G Not the 2 million in the press or the 1.26 Million in the press?
G Haven't you looked at those numbers?
DS No.
G Head in the sand Dan?

Head in the sand, Dan?

G Dollar amounts severely under claimed. DS See above.
G Simple math shows it to be MORE than claimed.
DS See above.
G Why no consideration when I asked about whether
G the evil Leekin woman (?) qualified to get
G FOOD STAMPS AS WELL? Or other funds?
DS You can ask anything you want, Greg.
G Did you think I needed your approval?
DS Did I say you did?
G Your big response was a lame insult of me?
DS That wasn't a big response.
DS That was a regular response.
G Was this a regular story, Dan?
G WHO are you looking out for Dan?
DS The next single mother you might victimize.
G You think she wouldn't see you trying to "skip away"
G from this news story or trying to shout me down for
G asking some good questions?
DS Do your own research, Greg, rather than
DS asking others to do it for you.
G Why am I an "asshole" for asking those questions?
DS You're an asshole for just being who you are and for what you've
done.
DS Criminal convictions for beating your
DS mentally ill wife... and abusing your
DS former girlfriends seven year old daughter.
G Do you think posting that reference comment from
G Doug will negate the effect of your comments here?
DS Not to idiots like you... and kenny boy.
G How do you think your distraction from such
G a big agency abuse story would appear to
G any new people looking in on this group?
DS I don't know.
G Do you think a newcomer would think my
G questions are bad, wrong or inappropriate?
DS I just want them to know you abused your
DS girlfriend's seven year old daughter back in
DS 2001 and the mother hasn't regained
DS custody since then.
G Dan Sullivan, Based on YOUR OWN WORDS
G You were investigated for child abuse 15 times
G and founded for child abuse 5 times.
DS And CPS has to reverse all five of their findings because
DS their decisions weren't based on any credible evidence.

G Which is THE USUAL from CPS and you know it!
G CPS itself is "not credible".

G One time you were even founded for
G sexually molesting your own little girl.
DS Despite the fact the Judge threw the charges out of court.

G The word "despite" is an acknowledgement that it was true.

DS No, it doesn't.

DS It means the Judge decided there was no evidence I did anything
wrong.
DS CPS disagreed, and they had to reverse their decision after an
DS Administrative Hearing.

G The two processes are supposed to be independant of each other.

DS They are.

G They're NOT but they are supposed to be.

DS Obviously what you claim wasn't true in my case.

How nice for you!

DS The "credible evidence" CPS used to make that
DS decision was a statement from my daughter,
DS which was "My daddy touched me with the
DS puppet bear in the toilet."

G So why did you do that Dan?

snip - refer to new thread

DS Then next sentence in the case record was
DS "We didn't know what she was trying to say."
DS How can something be credible when you don't know what it is?

G Hysteria. Like yours about showers.

G You never experienced child removal because
G you were a non custodial parent.
DS I had full custody at that time.

G NO YOU DIDN'T.
DS Sure I did.
DS Prove otherwise.

G Post your records.
DS It's your obligation to prove my statement wrong when you claim
it is.

It is?

Does that work BOTH WAYS?
Or is that a convenient one way street, Dan?

G Changing your story now Dan?
DS Not at all.

G How can a person with that experience
G play games with false accusations like you do?
DS Which false accusations?

G Naive innocent little Dan says "Who, me?"

DS Interesting.

DS You chose not to claim the accusations about the showers were
false.

Was it about the showers, or your INTERPRETATION of them?

Should we ask the "puppet bear" for the answer?

Sure, stick your face up REAL close and ask the puppet bear.
Make sure it's used puppet bear.

Used condom?

Poo paper.

On Aug 5, 5:16 pm, Dan Sullivan wrote:
On Aug 5, 5:51 pm, Greegor wrote:



On Aug 5, 3:41 pm, firemonkey wrote:

On Aug 3, 10:17 pm, Greegor wrote:

Why do these stories refer to 2 million or 1.3 million?

9 to 11 kids all special needs, $55 per day, for MANY years.

Splitting the difference and saying 10 kids yields $550 per day.
x30 days per month 16,500 monthly take.

x12 months yields 198,000 per year

x24 years she's been doing this yields $ 4,752,000.00

That's 4.75 Million dollars.

So WHY are they saying she ripped off 2 million?
The math shows that amount is oddly low!

There was a comment in Florida from somebody who
Leekin had approached them personally seeking help
to deposit $20 (or 30) Million into an off shore account.

What else was this Leekin woman connected to?

A RING of people grifting this way from the system?

Question:
Did she qualify for Food Stamps for all of these people?

Food stamps for Fosters/adopters are disconnected
from the caretakers income aren't they?

Dan and Firemonkey, Can you offer any answers?

On Aug 2, 11:54 pm, fx wrote:

Fake names helped mom adopt 11 New York children: welfare agency

By BRIAN SKOLOFF | Associated Press Writer
4:35 PM EDT, August 2, 2007

http://www.amny.com/news/local/wire/...buse-adoptedch...

WEST PALM BEACH, Fla. - A woman accused of abusing her 11 adopted
children and bilking New York City out of nearly $1.3 million gained
custody of the kids through six adoption processes using four fakes
names, authorities said Thursday.

Judith Leekin, of Port St. Lucie, used the four aliases at separate
agencies in New York City to adopt the children between July 1988 and
April 1996 and never once used her real name, said Sharman Stein, a
spokeswoman for the New York City Administration for Children's
Services, a child welfare agency.

Stein said Leekin, 62, received $1.26 million in stipends to help care
for the kids.

Authorities in Florida, however, say she received up to $2 million in
payments from New York City. They say the children _ who now range in
age from 15 to 27 _ told them Leekin never took them to see a doctor or
dentist and never allowed them to attend school.

Leekin is charged with 10 counts of abuse, among other things. She
handcuffed the children and tethered them together at night, forcing
them to sleep on a cold tile floor and soil themselves because they
weren't allowed to use the bathroom, prosecutors said. She could face up
to 190 years in prison if convicted on all counts.

Her attorney, Mario Garcia, said he has filed a not guilty plea. Her
arraignment is set for Aug. 17.

Leekin's biological son spoke out recently in his mother's defense.

"She's a loving caring mom and grandma," the son told New York's
WCBS-TV, which did not name him and did not show his face. "I'm her only
son. ... You don't see me driving a BMW. I'm renting my apartment. The
$2 million I'd love to see."

Port St. Lucie police have said that Leekin would likely face more
charges and that others could be arrested for helping her. They would
not elaborate.

The Florida Department of Children & Families investigated a complaint
of child abuse against Leekin in 1999, but the case was later closed and
the records are sealed.

"There was absolutely no indication of child abuse on any of the victims
that they saw at that time," DCF spokeswoman Ellen Higinbotham said.

However, New York City officials said they have no record of Florida
ever contacting them in 1999, a move that may have raised red flags
since Leekin never used her real name to adopt the children.

"But that would be considered part of standard practice if they wanted
to see what the earlier jurisdiction might have known about this
individual," Stein said.

Higinbotham could not say whether such a call was made. However, she
said DCF investigators would not be required to determine whether the
children were adopted or where they were from. She declined to say
whether DCF knew in this case that the children had been adopted in New
York.

New York City officials believe Leekin may have been able to fool the
system because it wasn't until 1999 that adoption agencies there began
requiring fingerprints from prospective parents.

Stein said Leekin adopted her first child using an alias in July 1988.
She said Leekin then adopted three more under another alias in May 1993
and three more using yet another fake name in June 1994. She said Leekin
adopted two more children _ one in December 1994 and one in June 1995 _
using that alias and then adopted two more under a fourth false name in
April 1996.

Authorities allege Leekin was using the children as a cottage industry
to line her pockets with subsidy payments while abusing and neglecting them.

People who adopt special needs children in New York City can get as much
as $55 a day until the child turns 21. Stein said all the children
adopted by Leekin were deemed to have special needs.

Ten of the children and adults are now in Florida state care. One is
blind and mumbles. Another can barely walk or stand. None appears to
have more than a fourth-grade education.

Police were still searching for an 18-year-old believed to have been
among the 11 adopted children.

Firemonkey wrote

greg asks" Dan and Firemonkey, Can you offer any answers?"
I can't greg,I do not know anything about how children in foster care
are funded. Sorry.



Isn't it $600?

How's the new two story wing with the olympic sized swimming pool?

Did SS pay for the water falls and koi pond?

Is the chauffeur full time or just days?

Dan, I can't believe you outed us!!
I am sure glad you didn't mention the furs ,jewelry and new ranch in
Montana. We decided to keep the chauffeur full time, we never know
when we may need to go out and use our food stamps for a quick bottle
of Crystal, crackers and caviar.
We were also able to use the food stamps to pay for the water falls,
btw, did you know they take food stamps for jet fuel now?? Give me a
holler and I send it out to pick up you and the kids, Firemonkey

On Aug 5, 7:01 pm, firemonkey wrote:
On Aug 5, 5:16 pm, Dan Sullivan wrote:
Isn't it $600?

How's the new two story wing with the olympic sized swimming pool?

Did SS pay for the water falls and koi pond?

Is the chauffeur full time or just days?

Dan, I can't believe you outed us!!
I am sure glad you didn't mention the furs ,jewelry and new ranch in
Montana. We decided to keep the chauffeur full time, we never know
when we may need to go out and use our food stamps for a quick bottle
of Crystal, crackers and caviar.
We were also able to use the food stamps to pay for the water falls,
btw, did you know they take food stamps for jet fuel now?? Give me a
holler and I send it out to pick up you and the kids, Firemonkey

Thanks, I'll get back to you.

On Aug 5, 5:59 pm, Dan Sullivan wrote:
On Aug 5, 6:47 pm, Greegor wrote:

On Aug 5, 4:07 pm, Dan Sullivan wrote:

On Aug 5, 4:50 pm, Greegor wrote:

snip

Doesn't it bother you a bit that this woman was
trying to money launder over $20 Million dollars
to an off shore account?

I think it bothers you a LOT more than me, Greg.

You're not worried about her co-conspirators in the racket?

They should be the ones worrying.

Did you REALLY think she did this alone?

I don't know.

G You even ignored the question about whether
G this person was able to collect FOOD STAMPS.
G without regard for HER financial holdings or earnings.
DS Well, when you get the answer to the food stamp
DS question, post it... and I'll insult you all over again.

Are we having fun yet?

GFYS... now I am.

It's a flaming hoop you jump through any time I want! LOL

G You just launched more insults toward me?
DS Yes, I did.
G Do you think CPS SEVERELY UNDER REPORTED
G the DOLLARS that MOTIVATED THIS
G EVIL JUDITH LEEKIN WOMAN?
DS GFYS.
G Why are you so touchy about the question Dan?
DS Which question?
G THIS ONE!
G Do you think CPS SEVERELY UNDER REPORTED
G the DOLLARS that MOTIVATED THIS
G EVIL JUDITH LEEKIN WOMAN?
DS GFYS.

DS I don't know.

Family Rights advocates generally DO know what to expect.
Sometimes you complain about their dishonesty, but
when the BIG MONEY is involved you get shy about
having a suspicion? Are you WAFFLING Dan?

You claim a LOT of experience with CPS and their
corrupt ways, yet you aren't quite SURE that
they would lie about the BIG MONEY?

Hilarious!

Why don't you just profess your ENDLESS LOVE
for the corrupt agencies Dan?

You're trying to bail out the Titanic with a Dixie Cup!

Isn't it embarassing to be such a butt kisser for the agencies?

DS There, I did it again!
G Why the hostile reaction when I posted comments
G about how the dollar figures in the Judith Leekin case
G were apparently UNDER PLAYED in the media?
DS Post the true facts... not your speculation.
G A news story reported $55 per day per child.
G How is the math beyond that speculation?
DS Who knows if that's accurate?
DS Now confirm all your other numbers.
G Check my MATH, Dan!
DS You need to prove all the figures in
DS your calculations are accurate and true.

Why in hell do I need to prove that?

To establish beyond a reasonable doubt that your conclusion as far as
the amount of money is accurate.

I don't need beyond a reasonable doubt!
I don't even need a PREPONDERANCE!
I don't need diddly squat to accuse the Child Protection INDUSTRY
of telling lies about the money this evil woman got for her RACKET!

The agencies just don't want to give me the information
that reveals what a corrupt bunch of *******s they are!

So you admit you conclusion isn't accurate.

No, I admit that the agencies are so crooked they
create a situation where YOU CANNOT KNOW in detail.

MY figures are as accurate as they can be based
on logical extrapolation.

As LONG as they're going to conceal the figures
I assert my right to make the best ESTIMATE I can!
If they don't LIKE that, well.... That's just TOO BAD!

Best estimate... meaning a guess on your part,

Extrapolation and Projection are valid mathematical concepts.
The agencies use them for FUNDING constantly.

Isn't it awful when these concepts work
AGAINST THE AGENCIES PUBLIC RELATIONS STANDING?

When they do this do you BUY IT?
I've asked this question several times and
you EVADE or dodge with GFYS.

I HEREBY ASK FOR A FULL PUBLIC ACCOUNTING!

WooWoo.

I'm sure THAT'LL do it.

Yes.

If CPS was forced into a public accounting, they
would have to hire the people who cooked the books
for the MOB or for ENRON.

G Isn't that my right?
DS To be an asshole?
DS It never stopped you before.

Cute!

Any moron who can MULTIPLY and knows
where a decimal point and commas go can
see they are being LIED TO about the numbers.

YOU are the nay sayer, but rather than finding any
actual mathematical or source fault with my
4.75 Million dollar figure, you issue general demands
for proof? Whose SIDE are you on?

I'm simply looking for accuracy in the calculations.

You are enabling stonewalling by CPS.
Looking for accuracy in this case is a delay tactic.

What am I delaying?

From this post of yours it appears you're just guessing.
Why do you seem to be protecting the AGENCIES?

I just want accuracy.

Get them to hand over the numbers then!

It'll take YEARS and enable more of the same abuses.
But that's what you intend right?

Against my evil mathematical assertions?

Get the hard figures and you can argue!
Until then, you and your buddies at the agencies
will just have to suffer the ravages of the
citizen with a dangerous calculator!! LOL

G The $55 per day for special needs kids came from an article.
G Beyond that it's simple to multiply by the number of kids,
G number of days in a month, number of months in a year,
G and 24 years (from an article).

DS Post the citations for each of the figures you used.

There is only one citation, $55 per day for special needs kids.
It is in one of the news articles on this VERY STORY
about Judith Leekin.

Beyond that it's simple MULTIPLICATION!
You can do that right?

x10 kids

For the entire length of time?

x30 days in month

Some months have more days, some less.

x12 months

Accurate.

x24 years

DUHHHHH.

She received money till all the children were 24 years old?

She ran this scam since the middle 1980's.

Till the individuals were 24 years old?

I think NOT!!!

How nice for you!

She was given 8 within TWO months, for example.
(Straight from a news story out of NY, Dan.)

Tear it up Dan!

DONE!!!!!

Whip out your agency threatening CALCULATOR! LOL
Anxious to protect your beloved agencies from
the ravages of a citizen with a calculator?

The ravages of a fool with a calculator.

Isn't DEMOCRACY a gas?
The US Constitution, gotta love it!

G The question about FOOD STAMPS is fairly obvious.
G As I understand it, with special needs kids, she was able
G to obtain Food Stamps for TEN PEOPLE with no regard
G to her holdings or earnings.

G Dan Sullivan, HOW MUCH would you estimate
G this JUDITH LEEKIN got in FOOD STAMPS EACH MONTH?

DS I don't know.

You don't know anybody who gets FOOD STAMPS?

No.

I hear it's around $140 per month, per head,
but CHECK MY FIGURE Dan! Ask around!
You must know somebody who gets a full draw.
Like a disabled person.

You ask around, Greg.

I did. I got $140 per month per head.

And don't forget to whip out your evil agency crushing calculator!

How much BOLOGNA and BREAD would that buy Dan?

You Family Rights reformer you! LOL

G As I understand it she was also able to obtain
G GRANT MONEY for adding onto her house as well.

DS Citations?

Ask Ron! Yeah, he is ANXIOUS to tell you publicly
about how much GRANT MONEY would be available
to somebody with TEN "special needs" kids!

If he won't tell you, then ask SHERMAN!

Come on! Come on! Be quick about it!

Time is money! Wouldn't want to drag this out and delay it!

Or would you?

DS Do you think the Child Protection INDUSTRY wants
DS that to be reported Dan?

Did you miss this question Dan?

Let's have it!

G Do YOU trust CPS to be fully forthcoming about
G the full funding amount involved?
DS More than trusting your speculations?

G DO YOU TRUST THE FIGURES FROM CPS DAN?
DS I haven't looked at them.
G Not the 2 million in the press or the 1.26 Million in the press?
G Haven't you looked at those numbers?
DS No.
G Head in the sand Dan?

Head in the sand, Dan?

G Dollar amounts severely under claimed. DS See above.
G Simple math shows it to be MORE than claimed.
DS See above.
G Why no consideration when I asked about whether
G the evil Leekin woman (?) qualified to get
G FOOD STAMPS AS WELL? Or other funds?
DS You can ask anything you want, Greg.
G Did you think I needed your approval?
DS Did I say you did?
G Your big response was a lame insult of me?
DS That wasn't a big response.
DS That was a regular response.
G Was this a regular story, Dan?
G WHO are you looking out for Dan?
DS The next single mother you might victimize.
G You think she wouldn't see you trying to "skip away"
G from this news story or trying to shout me down for
G asking some good questions?
DS Do your own research, Greg, rather than
DS asking others to do it for you.
G Why am I an "asshole" for asking those questions?
DS You're an asshole for just being who you are and for what you've
done.
DS Criminal convictions for beating your
DS mentally ill wife... and abusing your
DS former girlfriends seven year old daughter.
G Do you think posting that reference comment from
G Doug will negate the effect of your comments here?
DS Not to idiots like you... and kenny boy.
G How do you think your distraction from such
G a big agency abuse story would appear to
G any new people looking in on this group?
DS I don't know.
G Do you think a newcomer would think my
G questions are bad, wrong or inappropriate?
DS I just want them to know you abused your
DS girlfriend's seven year old daughter back in
DS 2001 and the mother hasn't regained
DS custody since then.
G Dan Sullivan, Based on YOUR OWN WORDS
G You were investigated for child abuse 15 times
G and founded for child abuse 5 times.
DS And CPS has to reverse all five of their findings because
DS their decisions weren't based on any credible evidence.

G Which is THE USUAL from CPS and you know it!
G CPS itself is "not credible".

G One time you were even founded for
G sexually molesting your own little girl.
DS Despite the fact the Judge threw the charges out of court.

G The word "despite" is an acknowledgement that it was true.

DS No, it doesn't.

DS It means the Judge decided there was no evidence I did anything
wrong.
DS CPS disagreed, and they had to reverse their decision after an
DS Administrative Hearing.

G The two processes are supposed to be independant of each other.

DS They are.

G They're NOT but they are supposed to be.

DS Obviously what you claim wasn't true in my case.

How nice for you!

DS The "credible evidence" CPS used to make that
DS decision was a statement from my daughter,
DS which was "My daddy touched me with the
DS puppet bear in the toilet."

G So why did you do that Dan?

snip - refer to new thread

DS Then next sentence in the case record was
DS "We didn't know what she was trying to say."
DS How can something be credible when you don't know what it is?

G Hysteria. Like yours about showers.

G You never experienced child removal because
G you were a non custodial parent.
DS I had full custody at that time.

G NO YOU DIDN'T.
DS Sure I did.
DS Prove otherwise.

G Post your records.
DS It's your obligation to prove my statement wrong when you claim
it is.

It is?

Does that work BOTH WAYS?
Or is that a convenient one way street, Dan?

Do you feel a snugness in your petard? As in "hoisted by your own"?

G Changing your story now Dan?
DS Not at all.

G How can a person with that experience
G play games with false accusations like you do?
DS Which false accusations?

G Naive innocent little Dan says "Who, me?"

DS Interesting.

DS You chose not to claim the accusations about the showers were
false.

Was it about the showers, or your INTERPRETATION of them?

Should we ask the "puppet bear" for the answer?

Sure, stick your face up REAL close and ask the puppet bear.
Make sure it's used puppet bear.

Used condom?

Poo paper.

Dan, you touched your little girl in the bathroom didn't you?

Of course you're going to rationalize it!

Your interpretation of "puppet bear" is not superior is it?

After your INTERPRETATION about showers, I am
of course not inclined to believe your INTERPRETATION
about "puppet bear".

What's the matter, Dan?
Can't you TAKE what you DISH OUT?

You touched your little girl in the bathroom didn't you?

Be EVASIVE, that always helps!

On Aug 5, 7:00 pm, Greegor wrote:
On Aug 5, 5:59 pm, Dan Sullivan wrote:

On Aug 5, 6:47 pm, Greegor wrote:

On Aug 5, 4:07 pm, Dan Sullivan wrote:

On Aug 5, 4:50 pm, Greegor wrote:

snip

Doesn't it bother you a bit that this woman was
trying to money launder over $20 Million dollars
to an off shore account?

I think it bothers you a LOT more than me, Greg.

You're not worried about her co-conspirators in the racket?

They should be the ones worrying.

Did you REALLY think she did this alone?

I don't know.

G You even ignored the question about whether
G this person was able to collect FOOD STAMPS.
G without regard for HER financial holdings or earnings.
DS Well, when you get the answer to the food stamp
DS question, post it... and I'll insult you all over again.

Are we having fun yet?

GFYS... now I am.

It's a flaming hoop you jump through any time I want! LOL

G You just launched more insults toward me?
DS Yes, I did.
G Do you think CPS SEVERELY UNDER REPORTED
G the DOLLARS that MOTIVATED THIS
G EVIL JUDITH LEEKIN WOMAN?
DS GFYS.
G Why are you so touchy about the question Dan?
DS Which question?
G THIS ONE!
G Do you think CPS SEVERELY UNDER REPORTED
G the DOLLARS that MOTIVATED THIS
G EVIL JUDITH LEEKIN WOMAN?
DS GFYS.

DS I don't know.

Family Rights advocates generally DO know what to expect.
Sometimes you complain about their dishonesty, but
when the BIG MONEY is involved you get shy about
having a suspicion? Are you WAFFLING Dan?

You claim a LOT of experience with CPS and their
corrupt ways, yet you aren't quite SURE that
they would lie about the BIG MONEY?

Hilarious!

Why don't you just profess your ENDLESS LOVE
for the corrupt agencies Dan?

You're trying to bail out the Titanic with a Dixie Cup!

Isn't it embarassing to be such a butt kisser for the agencies?

DS There, I did it again!
G Why the hostile reaction when I posted comments
G about how the dollar figures in the Judith Leekin case
G were apparently UNDER PLAYED in the media?
DS Post the true facts... not your speculation.
G A news story reported $55 per day per child.
G How is the math beyond that speculation?
DS Who knows if that's accurate?
DS Now confirm all your other numbers.
G Check my MATH, Dan!
DS You need to prove all the figures in
DS your calculations are accurate and true.

Why in hell do I need to prove that?

To establish beyond a reasonable doubt that your conclusion as far as
the amount of money is accurate.

I don't need beyond a reasonable doubt!
I don't even need a PREPONDERANCE!
I don't need diddly squat to accuse the Child Protection INDUSTRY
of telling lies about the money this evil woman got for her RACKET!

The agencies just don't want to give me the information
that reveals what a corrupt bunch of *******s they are!

So you admit you conclusion isn't accurate.

No, I admit that the agencies are so crooked they
create a situation where YOU CANNOT KNOW in detail.

MY figures are as accurate as they can be based
on logical extrapolation.

As LONG as they're going to conceal the figures
I assert my right to make the best ESTIMATE I can!
If they don't LIKE that, well.... That's just TOO BAD!

Best estimate... meaning a guess on your part,

Extrapolation and Projection are valid mathematical concepts.
The agencies use them for FUNDING constantly.

Isn't it awful when these concepts work
AGAINST THE AGENCIES PUBLIC RELATIONS STANDING?

When they do this do you BUY IT?
I've asked this question several times and
you EVADE or dodge with GFYS.

I HEREBY ASK FOR A FULL PUBLIC ACCOUNTING!

WooWoo.

I'm sure THAT'LL do it.

Yes.

If CPS was forced into a public accounting, they
would have to hire the people who cooked the books
for the MOB or for ENRON.

G Isn't that my right?
DS To be an asshole?
DS It never stopped you before.

Cute!

Any moron who can MULTIPLY and knows
where a decimal point and commas go can
see they are being LIED TO about the numbers.

YOU are the nay sayer, but rather than finding any
actual mathematical or source fault with my
4.75 Million dollar figure, you issue general demands
for proof? Whose SIDE are you on?

I'm simply looking for accuracy in the calculations.

You are enabling stonewalling by CPS.
Looking for accuracy in this case is a delay tactic.

What am I delaying?

From this post of yours it appears you're just guessing.
Why do you seem to be protecting the AGENCIES?

I just want accuracy.

Get them to hand over the numbers then!

It'll take YEARS and enable more of the same abuses.
But that's what you intend right?

Against my evil mathematical assertions?

Get the hard figures and you can argue!
Until then, you and your buddies at the agencies
will just have to suffer the ravages of the
citizen with a dangerous calculator!! LOL

G The $55 per day for special needs kids came from an article.
G Beyond that it's simple to multiply by the number of kids,
G number of days in a month, number of months in a year,
G and 24 years (from an article).

DS Post the citations for each of the figures you used.

There is only one citation, $55 per day for special needs kids.
It is in one of the news articles on this VERY STORY
about Judith Leekin.

Beyond that it's simple MULTIPLICATION!
You can do that right?

x10 kids

For the entire length of time?

x30 days in month

Some months have more days, some less.

x12 months

Accurate.

x24 years

DUHHHHH.

She received money till all the children were 24 years old?

She ran this scam since the middle 1980's.

Till the individuals were 24 years old?

I think NOT!!!

How nice for you!

She was given 8 within TWO months, for example.
(Straight from a news story out of NY, Dan.)

Tear it up Dan!

DONE!!!!!

Whip out your agency threatening CALCULATOR! LOL
Anxious to protect your beloved agencies from
the ravages of a citizen with a calculator?

The ravages of a fool with a calculator.

Isn't DEMOCRACY a gas?
The US Constitution, gotta love it!

G The question about FOOD STAMPS is fairly obvious.
G As I understand it, with special needs kids, she was able
G to obtain Food Stamps for TEN PEOPLE with no regard
G to her holdings or earnings.

G Dan Sullivan, HOW MUCH would you estimate
G this JUDITH LEEKIN got in FOOD STAMPS EACH MONTH?

DS I don't know.

You don't know anybody who gets FOOD STAMPS?

No.

I hear it's around $140 per month, per head,
but CHECK MY FIGURE Dan! Ask around!
You must know somebody who gets a full draw.
Like a disabled person.

You ask around, Greg.

I did. I got $140 per month per head.

And don't forget to whip out your evil agency crushing calculator!

How much BOLOGNA and BREAD would that buy Dan?

You Family Rights reformer you! LOL

G As I understand it she was also able to obtain
G GRANT MONEY for adding onto her house as well.

DS Citations?

Ask Ron! Yeah, he is ANXIOUS to tell you publicly
about how much GRANT MONEY would be available
to somebody with TEN "special needs" kids!

If he won't tell you, then ask SHERMAN!

Come on! Come on! Be quick about it!

Time is money! Wouldn't want to drag this out and delay it!

Or would you?

DS Do you think the Child Protection INDUSTRY wants
DS that to be reported Dan?

Did you miss this question Dan?

Let's have it!

G Do YOU trust CPS to be fully forthcoming about
G the full funding amount involved?
DS More than trusting your speculations?

G DO YOU TRUST THE FIGURES FROM CPS DAN?
DS I haven't looked at them.
G Not the 2 million in the press or the 1.26 Million in the press?
G Haven't you looked at those numbers?
DS No.
G Head in the sand Dan?

Head in the sand, Dan?

G Dollar amounts severely under claimed. DS See above.
G Simple math shows it to be MORE than claimed.
DS See above.
G Why no consideration when I asked about whether
G the evil Leekin woman (?) qualified to get
G FOOD STAMPS AS WELL? Or other funds?
DS You can ask anything you want, Greg.
G Did you think I needed your approval?
DS Did I say you did?
G Your big response was a lame insult of me?
DS That wasn't a big response.
DS That was a regular response.
G Was this a regular story, Dan?
G WHO are you looking out for Dan?
DS The next single mother you might victimize.
G You think she wouldn't see you trying to "skip away"
G from this news story or trying to shout me down for
G asking some good questions?
DS Do your own research, Greg, rather than
DS asking others to do it for you.
G Why am I an "asshole" for asking those questions?
DS You're an asshole for just being who you are and for what you've
done.
DS Criminal convictions for beating your
DS mentally ill wife... and abusing your
DS former girlfriends seven year old daughter.
G Do you think posting that reference comment from
G Doug will negate the effect of your comments here?
DS Not to idiots like you... and kenny boy.
G How do you think your distraction from such
G a big agency abuse story would appear to
G any new people looking in on this group?
DS I don't know.
G Do you think a newcomer would think my
G questions are bad, wrong or inappropriate?
DS I just want them to know you abused your
DS girlfriend's seven year old daughter back in
DS 2001 and the mother hasn't regained
DS custody since then.
G Dan Sullivan, Based on YOUR OWN WORDS
G You were investigated for child abuse 15 times
G and founded for child abuse 5 times.
DS And CPS has to reverse all five of their findings because
DS their decisions weren't based on any credible evidence.

G Which is THE USUAL from CPS and you know it!
G CPS itself is "not credible".

G One time you were even founded for
G sexually molesting your own little girl.
DS Despite the fact the Judge threw the charges out of court.

G The word "despite" is an acknowledgement that it was true.

DS No, it doesn't.

DS It means the Judge decided there was no evidence I did anything
wrong.
DS CPS disagreed, and they had to reverse their decision after an
DS Administrative Hearing.

G The two processes are supposed to be independant of each other.

DS They are.

G They're NOT but they are supposed to be.

DS Obviously what you claim wasn't true in my case.

How nice for you!

DS The "credible evidence" CPS used to make that
DS decision was a statement from my daughter,
DS which was "My daddy touched me with the
DS puppet bear in the toilet."

G So why did you do that Dan?

snip - refer to new thread

DS Then next sentence in the case record was
DS "We didn't know what she was trying to say."
DS How can something be credible when you don't know what it is?

G Hysteria. Like yours about showers.

G You never experienced child removal because
G you were a non custodial parent.
DS I had full custody at that time.

G NO YOU DIDN'T.
DS Sure I did.
DS Prove otherwise.

G Post your records.
DS It's your obligation to prove my statement wrong when you claim
it is.

It is?

Does that work BOTH WAYS?
Or is that a convenient one way street, Dan?

Do you feel a snugness in your petard? As in "hoisted by your own"?

G Changing your story now Dan?
DS Not at all.

G How can a person with that experience
G play games with false accusations like you do?
DS Which false accusations?

G Naive innocent little Dan says "Who, me?"

DS Interesting.

DS You chose not to claim the accusations about the showers were
false.

Was it about the showers, or your INTERPRETATION of them?

Should we ask the "puppet bear" for the answer?

Sure, stick your face up REAL close and ask the puppet bear.
Make sure it's used puppet bear.

Used condom?

Poo paper.

Dan, you touched your little girl in the bathroom didn't you?

Of course you're going to rationalize it!

Your interpretation of "puppet bear" is not superior is it?

After your INTERPRETATION about showers, I am
of course not inclined to believe your INTERPRETATION
about "puppet bear".

What's the matter, Dan?
Can't you TAKE what you DISH OUT?

You touched your little girl in the bathroom didn't you?

Be EVASIVE, that always helps!

On Aug 5, 7:00 pm, Greegor wrote:
On Aug 5, 5:59 pm, Dan Sullivan wrote:

On Aug 5, 6:47 pm, Greegor wrote:

On Aug 5, 4:07 pm, Dan Sullivan wrote:

On Aug 5, 4:50 pm, Greegor wrote:

snip

Doesn't it bother you a bit that this woman was
trying to money launder over $20 Million dollars
to an off shore account?

I think it bothers you a LOT more than me, Greg.

You're not worried about her co-conspirators in the racket?

They should be the ones worrying.

Did you REALLY think she did this alone?

I don't know.

G You even ignored the question about whether
G this person was able to collect FOOD STAMPS.
G without regard for HER financial holdings or earnings.
DS Well, when you get the answer to the food stamp
DS question, post it... and I'll insult you all over again.

Are we having fun yet?

GFYS... now I am.

It's a flaming hoop you jump through any time I want! LOL

G You just launched more insults toward me?
DS Yes, I did.
G Do you think CPS SEVERELY UNDER REPORTED
G the DOLLARS that MOTIVATED THIS
G EVIL JUDITH LEEKIN WOMAN?
DS GFYS.
G Why are you so touchy about the question Dan?
DS Which question?
G THIS ONE!
G Do you think CPS SEVERELY UNDER REPORTED
G the DOLLARS that MOTIVATED THIS
G EVIL JUDITH LEEKIN WOMAN?
DS GFYS.

DS I don't know.

Family Rights advocates generally DO know what to expect.
Sometimes you complain about their dishonesty, but
when the BIG MONEY is involved you get shy about
having a suspicion? Are you WAFFLING Dan?

You claim a LOT of experience with CPS and their
corrupt ways, yet you aren't quite SURE that
they would lie about the BIG MONEY?

Hilarious!

Why don't you just profess your ENDLESS LOVE
for the corrupt agencies Dan?

You're trying to bail out the Titanic with a Dixie Cup!

Isn't it embarassing to be such a butt kisser for the agencies?

DS There, I did it again!
G Why the hostile reaction when I posted comments
G about how the dollar figures in the Judith Leekin case
G were apparently UNDER PLAYED in the media?
DS Post the true facts... not your speculation.
G A news story reported $55 per day per child.
G How is the math beyond that speculation?
DS Who knows if that's accurate?
DS Now confirm all your other numbers.
G Check my MATH, Dan!
DS You need to prove all the figures in
DS your calculations are accurate and true.

Why in hell do I need to prove that?

To establish beyond a reasonable doubt that your conclusion as far as
the amount of money is accurate.

I don't need beyond a reasonable doubt!
I don't even need a PREPONDERANCE!
I don't need diddly squat to accuse the Child Protection INDUSTRY
of telling lies about the money this evil woman got for her RACKET!

The agencies just don't want to give me the information
that reveals what a corrupt bunch of *******s they are!

So you admit you conclusion isn't accurate.

No, I admit that the agencies are so crooked they
create a situation where YOU CANNOT KNOW in detail.

MY figures are as accurate as they can be based
on logical extrapolation.

As LONG as they're going to conceal the figures
I assert my right to make the best ESTIMATE I can!
If they don't LIKE that, well.... That's just TOO BAD!

Best estimate... meaning a guess on your part,

Extrapolation and Projection are valid mathematical concepts.
The agencies use them for FUNDING constantly.

Isn't it awful when these concepts work
AGAINST THE AGENCIES PUBLIC RELATIONS STANDING?

When they do this do you BUY IT?
I've asked this question several times and
you EVADE or dodge with GFYS.

I HEREBY ASK FOR A FULL PUBLIC ACCOUNTING!

WooWoo.

I'm sure THAT'LL do it.

Yes.

If CPS was forced into a public accounting, they
would have to hire the people who cooked the books
for the MOB or for ENRON.

G Isn't that my right?
DS To be an asshole?
DS It never stopped you before.

Cute!

Any moron who can MULTIPLY and knows
where a decimal point and commas go can
see they are being LIED TO about the numbers.

YOU are the nay sayer, but rather than finding any
actual mathematical or source fault with my
4.75 Million dollar figure, you issue general demands
for proof? Whose SIDE are you on?

I'm simply looking for accuracy in the calculations.

You are enabling stonewalling by CPS.
Looking for accuracy in this case is a delay tactic.

What am I delaying?

From this post of yours it appears you're just guessing.
Why do you seem to be protecting the AGENCIES?

I just want accuracy.

Get them to hand over the numbers then!

It'll take YEARS and enable more of the same abuses.
But that's what you intend right?

Against my evil mathematical assertions?

Get the hard figures and you can argue!
Until then, you and your buddies at the agencies
will just have to suffer the ravages of the
citizen with a dangerous calculator!! LOL

G The $55 per day for special needs kids came from an article.
G Beyond that it's simple to multiply by the number of kids,
G number of days in a month, number of months in a year,
G and 24 years (from an article).

DS Post the citations for each of the figures you used.

There is only one citation, $55 per day for special needs kids.
It is in one of the news articles on this VERY STORY
about Judith Leekin.

Beyond that it's simple MULTIPLICATION!
You can do that right?

x10 kids

For the entire length of time?

x30 days in month

Some months have more days, some less.

x12 months

Accurate.

x24 years

DUHHHHH.

She received money till all the children were 24 years old?

She ran this scam since the middle 1980's.

Till the individuals were 24 years old?

I think NOT!!!

How nice for you!

She was given 8 within TWO months, for example.
(Straight from a news story out of NY, Dan.)

Tear it up Dan!

DONE!!!!!

Whip out your agency threatening CALCULATOR! LOL
Anxious to protect your beloved agencies from
the ravages of a citizen with a calculator?

The ravages of a fool with a calculator.

Isn't DEMOCRACY a gas?
The US Constitution, gotta love it!

G The question about FOOD STAMPS is fairly obvious.
G As I understand it, with special needs kids, she was able
G to obtain Food Stamps for TEN PEOPLE with no regard
G to her holdings or earnings.

G Dan Sullivan, HOW MUCH would you estimate
G this JUDITH LEEKIN got in FOOD STAMPS EACH MONTH?

DS I don't know.

You don't know anybody who gets FOOD STAMPS?

No.

I hear it's around $140 per month, per head,
but CHECK MY FIGURE Dan! Ask around!
You must know somebody who gets a full draw.
Like a disabled person.

You ask around, Greg.

I did. I got $140 per month per head.

And don't forget to whip out your evil agency crushing calculator!

How much BOLOGNA and BREAD would that buy Dan?

You Family Rights reformer you! LOL

G As I understand it she was also able to obtain
G GRANT MONEY for adding onto her house as well.

DS Citations?

Ask Ron! Yeah, he is ANXIOUS to tell you publicly
about how much GRANT MONEY would be available
to somebody with TEN "special needs" kids!

If he won't tell you, then ask SHERMAN!

Come on! Come on! Be quick about it!

Time is money! Wouldn't want to drag this out and delay it!

Or would you?

DS Do you think the Child Protection INDUSTRY wants
DS that to be reported Dan?

Did you miss this question Dan?

Let's have it!

G Do YOU trust CPS to be fully forthcoming about
G the full funding amount involved?
DS More than trusting your speculations?

G DO YOU TRUST THE FIGURES FROM CPS DAN?
DS I haven't looked at them.
G Not the 2 million in the press or the 1.26 Million in the press?
G Haven't you looked at those numbers?
DS No.
G Head in the sand Dan?

Head in the sand, Dan?

G Dollar amounts severely under claimed. DS See above.
G Simple math shows it to be MORE than claimed.
DS See above.
G Why no consideration when I asked about whether
G the evil Leekin woman (?) qualified to get
G FOOD STAMPS AS WELL? Or other funds?
DS You can ask anything you want, Greg.
G Did you think I needed your approval?
DS Did I say you did?
G Your big response was a lame insult of me?
DS That wasn't a big response.
DS That was a regular response.
G Was this a regular story, Dan?
G WHO are you looking out for Dan?
DS The next single mother you might victimize.
G You think she wouldn't see you trying to "skip away"
G from this news story or trying to shout me down for
G asking some good questions?
DS Do your own research, Greg, rather than
DS asking others to do it for you.
G Why am I an "asshole" for asking those questions?
DS You're an asshole for just being who you are and for what you've
done.
DS Criminal convictions for beating your
DS mentally ill wife... and abusing your
DS former girlfriends seven year old daughter.
G Do you think posting that reference comment from
G Doug will negate the effect of your comments here?
DS Not to idiots like you... and kenny boy.
G How do you think your distraction from such
G a big agency abuse story would appear to
G any new people looking in on this group?
DS I don't know.
G Do you think a newcomer would think my
G questions are bad, wrong or inappropriate?
DS I just want them to know you abused your
DS girlfriend's seven year old daughter back in
DS 2001 and the mother hasn't regained
DS custody since then.
G Dan Sullivan, Based on YOUR OWN WORDS
G You were investigated for child abuse 15 times
G and founded for child abuse 5 times.
DS And CPS has to reverse all five of their findings because
DS their decisions weren't based on any credible evidence.

G Which is THE USUAL from CPS and you know it!
G CPS itself is "not credible".

G One time you were even founded for
G sexually molesting your own little girl.
DS Despite the fact the Judge threw the charges out of court.

G The word "despite" is an acknowledgement that it was true.

DS No, it doesn't.

DS It means the Judge decided there was no evidence I did anything
wrong.
DS CPS disagreed, and they had to reverse their decision after an
DS Administrative Hearing.

G The two processes are supposed to be independant of each other.

DS They are.

G They're NOT but they are supposed to be.

DS Obviously what you claim wasn't true in my case.

How nice for you!

DS The "credible evidence" CPS used to make that
DS decision was a statement from my daughter,
DS which was "My daddy touched me with the
DS puppet bear in the toilet."

G So why did you do that Dan?

snip - refer to new thread

DS Then next sentence in the case record was
DS "We didn't know what she was trying to say."
DS How can something be credible when you don't know what it is?

G Hysteria. Like yours about showers.

G You never experienced child removal because
G you were a non custodial parent.
DS I had full custody at that time.

G NO YOU DIDN'T.
DS Sure I did.
DS Prove otherwise.

G Post your records.
DS It's your obligation to prove my statement wrong when you claim
it is.

It is?

Does that work BOTH WAYS?
Or is that a convenient one way street, Dan?

Do you feel a snugness in your petard? As in "hoisted by your own"?

G Changing your story now Dan?
DS Not at all.

G How can a person with that experience
G play games with false accusations like you do?
DS Which false accusations?

G Naive innocent little Dan says "Who, me?"

DS Interesting.

DS You chose not to claim the accusations about the showers were
false.

Was it about the showers, or your INTERPRETATION of them?

Should we ask the "puppet bear" for the answer?

Sure, stick your face up REAL close and ask the puppet bear.
Make sure it's used puppet bear.

Used condom?

Poo paper.

Dan, you touched your little girl in the bathroom didn't you?

Of course you're going to rationalize it!

Your interpretation of "puppet bear" is not superior is it?

After your INTERPRETATION about showers, I am
of course not inclined to believe your INTERPRETATION
about "puppet bear".

What's the matter, Dan?
Can't you TAKE what you DISH OUT?

You touched your little girl in the bathroom didn't you?

Be EVASIVE, that always helps!