some people are so STOOOOOOOOPID I wonder how they can LIVE

(Kent_AOL) wrote in message . com...
(Cathy Weeks) wrote

Ah, how have all the employees paid for this room. You don't delude
yourself that it actually might have translated into higher pay, do
you?

The company has $X amount to spend on everyone, for whatever. A
pumping room costs $Y. That is $Y that could have been spent on
something ALL employees could use, versus something only a very small
number could use. How would you like it if your workplace paid for a
room for uncircumsized men to clean their foreskins?

Rooms for cleaning body parts are in most big buildings - it's called
the showers. My building has a gym complete with showers. But, your
point being, how would I feel if my employer did such a thing - well,
if there is a legitimate health need for specialized space, then I
wouldn't have a problem with it. But, I think the problem is defining
"legitimate need." Your analogy is ridiculous, because foreskin
cleaning CAN be done in the showers - with no issues of hygiene.
Pumping CAN be done in the bathroom (I did that), but hygiene is an
issue.

And you are deluding yourself if you think big companies divide things
up nicely like that, even without special needs. For instance, the
director of my division recently spent seven grand on new office
furniture for himself. Ate up a big chunk of that $X for ONE person.

Besides, she wasn't complaining about the pumping room - she was
complaining that some jerk actually complained.

I believe she DID complain. She complained that she had to walk all
the way there, take time, etc. Hmmm, seems like we all have to do
that, every time we use the rest room. Again, I think I'll start
bringing a bucket, ya know?

I feel bad for you, man. Have you considered changing jobs? You might
find other employers who A) have more restrooms, or B) might be able
to give you a cube nearer the restrooms if you have a need for it.
Oh, wait - you need a more convenient bathroom? Whoa, boy, that
wouldn't be fair to anyone else, now would it? That man with
irritable bowel syndrome - I guess he's just **** out of luck (pun
intended), now isn't he, since we can't make exceptions for any one
individual?

And exactly what percentage of this company ARE breastfeeders?

I don't know for her company, but at mine, it's much higher than for
instance the number of people in wheelchairs - and EVERY bathroom (4
on each floor) is handicapped accessible. Oh, I forget, you probably
wouldn't want them to have special facilities, either. Two few people
to need it.


For a nursing room to be useful, it has to be relatively close, and
include a sink before it's going to be useful. The best ones have a
fully enclosed room with with private cubicles eqipped power outlets
(so more than one woman can use it at once, and a sink in the room.
Some even provide hospital-grade pumps. And one on every floor is
nice, too.

Now you aren't happy until you have one on EVERY FLOOR? And you don't
think this is an expense that comes out of everyone's budget? All for
exactly WHAT percentage of employees?

What is your hangup on percentage? We spend money to help people with
special needs get by. Where I used to work - university, they turned
the hot water off to all buildings that didn't have food service. One
guy on oxygen required hot water to clean the tubing, which he needed
to do several times per day. He was a good man, a valuable employee,
well-liked by everyone. They installed a water heater in the bathroom
nearest where he worked. But by your reconning, they shouldn't have
done that, since too few people benefited.

Where I work, there are about
250 of us in one building, more than half of them women, and I am
pretty sure not a single one of them is BF at work.

You've asked? Maybe they do, and you don't know about it. Maybe they
use unused conference rooms, or like me, the handicapped stall of the
bathroom - which is not the best place (unhygenic for food prep). I
did that because the convenience outweighed the hygiene issue for me.
I never knew we even had a pumping room, and when I suggested it
(thinking, oh, wouldn't it be nice if we had an actual pumping room?),
they told me about the one they had - borrowing a key to use it (SOL
If the secretary with key was away from her desk) which had no special
anything done to it to make it into a pumping room - and when I
realized it was 3 floors down, I chose to continue using the bathroom,
because the convenience outweighed the lockable room.

I would guess that a pumping room isn't feasible at your place of
employment. You don't have the space, or the need. And when some
woman needs a space, if SOME provisions can be made - like she can use
a conference room for 15 minutes 2X per day, or something like that,
then there will probably never be a problem.

Yet, according to
you, were are supposed to spend money on space (which we don't
have--people are doubling up in offices, etc.) so that we can have a
pump room ON EVERY FLOOR just in the off chance that once in a while
someone will need it. I wish I had a money tree like you seem to!

No, I never said it should be required. I said it would be nice. You
see, I work in a building which houses over 7000 people, and my
employer, a fortune 10 company is one of the biggest employers in the
nation. I wasn't kidding when I said it would be 1/2 a mile to the
pumping room, which as I said before is REALLY inconvenient. I would
guess that there are probably a hundred or so nursing mothers that
work there at any given time. They went to zero extra money or effort
to make it into a pumping room. Out of my three building complex, one
room in each building would have been nice, and one room on each floor
- which we have the room and money for - would be even better.

Frankly, you show your ignorance. A good boss realizes that by making
breastpumping very easy, they decrease the amount of sick leave
parents have to take to care for sick kids, AND increase the
productivity of their workforce AND increase the job satisfaction AND
lower the attrition rate of their workers.

Lots of assumptions there. For example, the previous poster's "job
satisfaction" was NOT increased, since she HAS a pump room but won't
use it, preferring to bitch about how inconvenient it is.

So just because her employer threw pumping moms a bone, they don't
have the right complain? If someone does something badly, and then
claims they've done everyone a great service, we're supposed to be
greatful? If it were me, I'd rather they did nothing at all, then
claim they did so much.

And I
guarantee you that her co-workers, at the very least the one who
complained, don't enjoying increased productivity and satisfaction! I
guess non-breastfeeders' opinions don't count though, huh?

So the opinion of the complainer counts MORE in your world, than that
of the breastfeeding mom? They are entitled to a company that works
in a certain way, but the breastfeeding mom isn't?

A "good boss" looks at the WHOLE picture of what will bring OVERALL
satisfaction and increased productivity. If it is an office where 60%
of the employees at any given time are all lactating and need pump
rooms, then yes, I will agree with you that such rooms are a benefit
to the overall goodwill.

Why 60%? Why not 10%? If 10% really needed a space, and would use
it, then would you deny it?

Building), most bosses who understand human nature will realize that
spending everyone's money for one small subset of the workforce

I would ABSOLUTELY support the expenditure that helps out a small
subset of a workforce. Even if I'm not part of that subset. I would
hate working somewhere that doesn't make allowances for the needs of
its employees.

(hint--ZERO men will ever need a pump room, and I'd say probably 2/3
of the women in a typical workplace will either a) never have children
b) have past nursing years c) stay home while they're lactating d)
make their own arrangements ) will in fact DECREASE morale, because
suddenly everyone else is thinking "What's so special about Group X
that they get a room? Where's my room?"

The only people whose morale are going to be decreased are selfish
jerks who don't have an ounce of community spirit. And there are
plenty of men who would support the installation of pumping rooms in
big office buildings - at very least the men whose wives are working
and nursing. My husband is one, and I've talked to plenty of others
who think it's idiotic that their companies make zero effort to help
breastfeeders.


Hint: A boss's job is TO DO BUSINESS. It is NOT to succumb to every
whim of every employee. If a majority of the employees have a certain
need, then it is worth addressing, but again, I question what
percentage of a typical workforce will EVER breastfeed while they work
there, never mind all at the same time (needing "one on every floor"!)

So a need is only valid if a majority needs it? What about individuals
with special needs? In your little world, the only reasonable place
for them would be group homes, right? Get them out of the workforce,
eh, since they eat up too many public resources?

And again, the scenario we are talking about is where a room ALREADY
EXISTS!! Yet still, the poster couldn't be bothered to hike up there.
You know, I have to walk a long damn way to the Men's Room when
there's a women's room right outside my office. I guess if I hung
around you folks long enough,

I don't have a problem with you using the women's room, but most women
wouldn't agree with me. But, where I work, there are bathrooms - 4 on
every floor, and they are convenient and easy. I have a hard time
believing that your men's room is as inconvenient as the pumping room
is - 3 floors down in my case, but if you work elsewhere in my complex
- 1/2 mile away. I suspect you would throw a fit, if you had to hike
1/2 mile to use the toilet.

I would learn the Entitlement While that
says Every Employee Should Be Given Whatever They Want At Company
Expense, and demand that they kick even MORE people out of their
already too-few offices and build a Men's bathroom closer, so I don't
have to inconVEEEEEEENience myself walking down three long hallways to
get there.

Why does making a complaint equate entitlement? If a woman doesn't
like a situation, and complains, that makes her a whining
entitlement-seeker?

Or, I could bring a bucket.

Go right ahead. I suspect you'll be fired. And no lawsuit will get
you your job back, or any compensation. Whereas the same can't be
said about a woman finding a convenient place to pump.

Silly me, I think
that when an employer is willing to the trouble of building a special
room just for a group, especially one that is a miniscule percentage
of the work force, that, gosh, they should maybe APPRECIATE that they
have it, and use it??

They didn't build her a room. It was, like mine, an unused room that
she had to fetch a key for. They went to ZERO effort on her behalf.
ZERO. But, they get to claim they are a family-friendly business
because they've got a pumping room. So they reap the rewards of good
publicity without actually implementing they say they did.

So you appreciate being pat on the head? That's what they did.

Instead of grossing out their co-workers who
were under the mistaken impression that an office/cubicle is for work,
not for extruding bodily fluids.

So, do you ever eat at your cubicle? What about blowing your nose?
Bodily fluids are present in both cases IN A CUBE. OH MY GOD - HE'S
SPREADING GERMS - HE COUGHED NEAR OUR DIVIDER!!!! HE SPEWED ME WITH
BODILY FLUIDS!! (Tell you a secret - you are in a lot more danger of
catching the common cold from a sneeze nearby than you to be harmed in
anyway by a pumping near you. Unless of course, she tries to drown
you in it afterwards.)

Cathy Weeks