pushy moms at school

OK, I feel kinda mean even posting this, but I'm really curious
whether anyone else sees what I've been seeing at my kids' school.
There are all kinds of opportunities for parents to be in the school
helping out: holiday parties, special craft projects, field trips, and
also major, extra-classroom volunteer opps like planning or working at
a school fair or book fair etc. I try to give some time to projects
here and there and I also try to attend most of the in-classroom
events to which parents are invited, which has so far amounted to one
about every 6 to 8 weeks in each of my kids' classrooms.

There are also people called "classroom moms" who are the designated
parent volunteers in each class. Each class has 3 to 6 classroom moms.
I understand that the teachers call on them to organize other parents'
efforts (e.g., donating for parties) and to come in for the little
mundane helping out she might need.

In both classes, but most noticeably in my kindergartener's class, I'm
finding some of these classroom moms to be pushy nearly to the point
of offensiveness. These are clearly very smart women, and I strongly
suspect that they had good jobs before becoming stay-at-home moms.
They tend to address the rest of us "occasional" volunteers as
underlings. I feel like I'm their guest in the class as much as the
teacher's.

I think of the classroom as belonging to the teacher, not to any of
the parents based on how much time they spend there. Do I have the
wrong idea? Does anyone else have an issue with the "regular" parent
volunteers at their school? Are any of you "classroom moms" who feel
you do have the right to sort of own the classroom because you are
there so much more than most other parents?

I should note before finishing that I have also encountered a number
of extremely involved PTA parents who are also clearly very smart and
accomplished people who have the knack for making the other volunteers
feel important and "in ownership" of the projects they're working on.

At our school, yes there are a lot of opportunities to help in the classroom
and other areas of the school. We only have 1-2 room parents though. You
are encouraged to help, but no it's not pushed. I also belong to the PTA and
as usual with any situation, there are many of us who are repeat helpers
because not everyone has the time. No one, to my knowledge is made to feel
bad about the lack of help that they can do. When my two oldest girls
started school, I helped out a lot and was involved in just about
everything. But now, as my third child is in first grade, I have found
myself burnt out and I don't help as much. I go on field trips and attend
parties, but I don't help in the classroom anymore. I also hold an officer
position in the PTA, but really don't do much else. No one makes me feel bad
for my lack of help. I think that there is an underlying superiority in the
kindergarten moms because they are just starting out, but overall, the main
attitude is if you want something changed or you want a program instituted
you are more than welcome to run it or organize it.
--
Sue (mom to three girls)
I'm Just a Raggedy Ann in a Barbie Doll World...

Nevermind wrote in message
om...
OK, I feel kinda mean even posting this, but I'm really curious
whether anyone else sees what I've been seeing at my kids' school.
There are all kinds of opportunities for parents to be in the school
helping out: holiday parties, special craft projects, field trips, and
also major, extra-classroom volunteer opps like planning or working at
a school fair or book fair etc. I try to give some time to projects
here and there and I also try to attend most of the in-classroom
events to which parents are invited, which has so far amounted to one
about every 6 to 8 weeks in each of my kids' classrooms.

There are also people called "classroom moms" who are the designated
parent volunteers in each class. Each class has 3 to 6 classroom moms.
I understand that the teachers call on them to organize other parents'
efforts (e.g., donating for parties) and to come in for the little
mundane helping out she might need.

In both classes, but most noticeably in my kindergartener's class, I'm
finding some of these classroom moms to be pushy nearly to the point
of offensiveness. These are clearly very smart women, and I strongly
suspect that they had good jobs before becoming stay-at-home moms.
They tend to address the rest of us "occasional" volunteers as
underlings. I feel like I'm their guest in the class as much as the
teacher's.

I think of the classroom as belonging to the teacher, not to any of
the parents based on how much time they spend there. Do I have the
wrong idea? Does anyone else have an issue with the "regular" parent
volunteers at their school? Are any of you "classroom moms" who feel
you do have the right to sort of own the classroom because you are
there so much more than most other parents?

I should note before finishing that I have also encountered a number
of extremely involved PTA parents who are also clearly very smart and
accomplished people who have the knack for making the other volunteers
feel important and "in ownership" of the projects they're working on.

In article , Nevermind says...

OK, I feel kinda mean even posting this, but I'm really curious
whether anyone else sees what I've been seeing at my kids' school.
There are all kinds of opportunities for parents to be in the school
helping out: holiday parties, special craft projects, field trips, and
also major, extra-classroom volunteer opps like planning or working at
a school fair or book fair etc. I try to give some time to projects
here and there and I also try to attend most of the in-classroom
events to which parents are invited, which has so far amounted to one
about every 6 to 8 weeks in each of my kids' classrooms.

There are also people called "classroom moms" who are the designated
parent volunteers in each class. Each class has 3 to 6 classroom moms.
I understand that the teachers call on them to organize other parents'
efforts (e.g., donating for parties) and to come in for the little
mundane helping out she might need.

In both classes, but most noticeably in my kindergartener's class, I'm
finding some of these classroom moms to be pushy nearly to the point
of offensiveness. These are clearly very smart women, and I strongly
suspect that they had good jobs before becoming stay-at-home moms.
They tend to address the rest of us "occasional" volunteers as
underlings. I feel like I'm their guest in the class as much as the
teacher's.

I think of the classroom as belonging to the teacher, not to any of
the parents based on how much time they spend there. Do I have the
wrong idea? Does anyone else have an issue with the "regular" parent
volunteers at their school? Are any of you "classroom moms" who feel
you do have the right to sort of own the classroom because you are
there so much more than most other parents?

I should note before finishing that I have also encountered a number
of extremely involved PTA parents who are also clearly very smart and
accomplished people who have the knack for making the other volunteers
feel important and "in ownership" of the projects they're working on.


Ohh, yeah. I've done a fair amount of volunteer work - of course there are all
kinds - this is one of the things about volunteer work. It does get some
really take-charge types. On one hand, in my volunteer work I'm grudgingly
grateful to these folks because stuff gets done; on the other hand, Banty and
take-charge types don't get along in general. And I know I'm not unique - often
what happens is that a tight volunteer group forms, being self-selected after
many people feeling uncomfortable and staying away, or giving up in disgust when
no ideas but those of the central person or group seem to pass muster. (Then the
central take-charge person or clique complain about how they "'have to' do
evvvverrything"). But it varies widely - it's a group dynamic thing, with a
luck-of-the-draw as to who happens to get connected with the work. Sometimes
it's a more easy-going group. But sometimes, you can get the situation where no
one really does anything, wanting to do little bits and/or really only wanting
to chat. Then I wish there were a take-charge type around ;-) Good balances
do exist, though.

So with volunteer work it's a combination of go-with-the-flow and being
judiciously assertive.

I'd suggest a couple of things before giving up. One is to establish personally
(and singly) a good relationship with the teacher if you can. Yes, it *is* his
or her classroom, and not the Classroom Moms', and you can find out what the
teacher really wants and where there may be gaps. The other is to be assertive
with one or more of the Classroom Moms, judiciously. One or two may just need
you to say something like "excuse me, I may not be around quite as much as you,
but I have some real contributions to make." Then launch into what your plans
are or voice your concern politely. Also, make clear your boundaries as to how
you'll contribute and how you'll be treated.

It's amazing how some people come around when one is assertive. It's like
they're suddenly realizing "oh - a PERSON". :-)

It is also possible that your particular situation is a hard nut to crack, and
you may decide to concentrate your contribution on something you can
compartmentalize, like certain kinds of field trips. Or even decide you'll put
in your precious time and energy to other endeavors (and there's no shame in
that).

But, no, it's certainly not just you. Good luck.

Cheers,
Banty

I've run into a few pushy classroom volunteers who I have had to ban from my
classroom, because they wouldn't let me teach the class, would contradict me
on discipline in front of the children, and things like that.. Usually these
ladies would volunteer basically full-time in the kindergarten or 1st grade
classroom, and I guess they'd got things arranged with that teacher, but
when they followed the students to music, they'd try to run the show. One
particular example was a volunteer in a 1st grade class, who, when a child
was sent to time out because he/she was having trouble with self-control,
would take and cuddle that child on her lap, giving them all sorts of
attention. Or she'd go to the shelf and get an instrument for a child when I
had just taken one away from them because they were not following instrument
rules. It took almost no time at all before the students were looking to her
whenever I gave any instruction.

I got very good at finding this particular volunteer things which needed to
be copied, laminated, cut out, etc-anything to keep her in the lounge and
out of the room when the kids were there!

"Sue" wrote in message ...
At our school, yes there are a lot of opportunities to help in the classroom
and other areas of the school. We only have 1-2 room parents though. You
are encouraged to help, but no it's not pushed. I also belong to the PTA and
as usual with any situation, there are many of us who are repeat helpers
because not everyone has the time. No one, to my knowledge is made to feel
bad about the lack of help that they can do.

I haven't experienced this either; it's more some perceived (on my
part) sense of greater entitlement and of being in charge, when, IMO,
they're on the exact same level as I am (and as are the other
volunteers) in any given project on which we're both working. And
they're just "pushy" -- as Banty pointed out, this can probably be
chalked up to personality. There're pushy people everywhere, and they
tend to become important in volunteer situations.

I think that there is an underlying superiority in the
kindergarten moms because they are just starting out,

I think you've hit on something there. All the "worst offenders" are
women volunteering in their oldest child's K classroom, so they're new
to the school volunteering game. Maybe they're trying to assert
themselves and make a place and that's how these particular women go
about doing so. I also want to make a place for myself at this school,
but my personal style is to just sort of "be there" and naturally and
slowly build up face recognition and get to know and be known by those
important to my kids. The last time we experienced school, which was 3
years ago (we homeschooled my oldest for first and second grades), I
came away really humbled as to what I could hope to accomplish and
what influence I could have. Now, I just want to help out as needed to
make the existing program work better for the kids, in addition to the
more selfish goals I mentioned above.

Banty wrote
I'd suggest a couple of things before giving up.

Oh, I won't be giving up. It's too important to me and, in the case of
the in-classroom stuff, to my kids.

One is to establish personally
(and singly) a good relationship with the teacher if you can.

Yeh, besides my kids' desire to have me in the classroom for projects
sometimes, my other real reason for helping out in the actual
classroom (besides helping out) is to get to know the teachers. This
is especially important, so far, with my oldest, who is not the
easiest, most typical child around.

Yes, it *is* his
or her classroom, and not the Classroom Moms', and you can find out what the
teacher really wants and where there may be gaps. The other is to be assertive
with one or more of the Classroom Moms, judiciously. One or two may just need
you to say something like "excuse me, I may not be around quite as much as you,
but I have some real contributions to make." Then launch into what your plans
are or voice your concern politely. Also, make clear your boundaries as to how
you'll contribute and how you'll be treated.


Yeh, you're right, and I can do that. I have exercised some judicious
interrupting when the authoritarian-pedagogical tones start flying and
it does tend to help for a bit. But I hate having to do that, you
know? I resent it. This ain't my job, where I need to put up with all
the petty ego needs and politics because I'm paid to do so. Oh,
whatever.

It is also possible that your particular situation is a hard nut to crack, and
you may decide to concentrate your contribution on something you can
compartmentalize, like certain kinds of field trips. Or even decide you'll put
in your precious time and energy to other endeavors (and there's no shame in
that).

Yes, or I can decide to just swallow my ego and let these ladies get
their kicks bossing people around since they had to give up their
careers 6 years ago. After all, they are doing important work on my
kids' behalf and I feel no ego-fulfillment need to take charge of
these volunteers. I got enough on my plate already. I am capable of
getting myself into that "lil 'ol me -- just tell me what to do!"
place. Or I can beat 'em by joining 'em: becoming a classroom mom. :0


But, no, it's certainly not just you. Good luck.

Thanks!

In ,
Nevermind wrote:

*There are also people called "classroom moms" who are the designated
*parent volunteers in each class. Each class has 3 to 6 classroom moms.

My son is still in preschool (his school includes 2 yr old preschool, 3 yr
old preschool, pre-K, and K - the majority of kids continue through pre-K
and then go to public K, but a good number stay through K and then go to
public 1st grade or a different private 1st grade), so maybe it is totally
different from other schools, I don't know. But, there are classroom moms
at our school...and I have to say I have never found them particularly
pushy. As a board member of the PTO (outgoing treasurer, incoming
co-president, I'm sorry to say. Sigh.) I have had the opportunity to hear
a lot of the "behind the scenes" talk about homeroom moms from the body of
the PTO. The homeroom moms are viewed by many of our PTO members as
slackers! The PTO and a few of the homeroom moms felt we should come up
with a "homeroom mom handout" to delineate what their duties should be and
offer advice on how to accomplish all the goals laid out in the handout.
Like, calling other moms and getting them to volunteer for stuff and so
on. Because at our school, people do not WANT to be homeroom mom, for the
most part. They would rather volunteer for a particular event. That being
said, at our school we have separate sign-up sheets for people to be
"library mom" once a week, to be "lunch helper," and the teachers always
solicit moms on an individual basis to help with particular projects they
might be doing (a mom who is a pastry chef might help with a baking
project; a mom who is a horticulturist might help with a garden project; I
am being called upon to teach a lesson on animal health and safety, etc).

h.
--
hillary israeli vmd http://www.hillary.net
"uber vaccae in quattuor partes divisum est."
not-so-newly minted veterinarian-at-large

"Nevermind" wrote in message
om...
OK, I feel kinda mean even posting this, but I'm really curious
whether anyone else sees what I've been seeing at my kids' school.
There are all kinds of opportunities for parents to be in the school
helping out: holiday parties, special craft projects, field trips, and
also major, extra-classroom volunteer opps like planning or working at
a school fair or book fair etc. I try to give some time to projects
here and there and I also try to attend most of the in-classroom
events to which parents are invited, which has so far amounted to one
about every 6 to 8 weeks in each of my kids' classrooms.

There are also people called "classroom moms" who are the designated
parent volunteers in each class. Each class has 3 to 6 classroom moms.
I understand that the teachers call on them to organize other parents'
efforts (e.g., donating for parties) and to come in for the little
mundane helping out she might need.

In both classes, but most noticeably in my kindergartener's class, I'm
finding some of these classroom moms to be pushy nearly to the point
of offensiveness. These are clearly very smart women, and I strongly
suspect that they had good jobs before becoming stay-at-home moms.
They tend to address the rest of us "occasional" volunteers as
underlings. I feel like I'm their guest in the class as much as the
teacher's.

I think of the classroom as belonging to the teacher, not to any of
the parents based on how much time they spend there. Do I have the
wrong idea?

Very much so. The idea is to help out in the classroom so that your child
and the other children in the classroom can benefit from their education as
much as possible and also keep tabs on your child(ren).

If some mothers want to pretend to run the group, let them. Let them do the
organizing and stuff. Then you get to spend more quality time with the kids
and really make a difference.

Does anyone else have an issue with the "regular" parent
volunteers at their school? Are any of you "classroom moms" who feel
you do have the right to sort of own the classroom because you are
there so much more than most other parents?

I should note before finishing that I have also encountered a number
of extremely involved PTA parents who are also clearly very smart and
accomplished people who have the knack for making the other volunteers
feel important and "in ownership" of the projects they're working on.

On the other hand, you do have a valid point about other parents not playing
well with their fellow parents.

You might want to talk to the teachers about this, though. If teachers
approach this carefully and thoughtfully, they can something like "you know,
there parents who really want to be involved and unfortunately, have time
constraints that you don't have. Sometimes you come on a little too strong
by making them feel like they don't belong. If you work more with them...."
As you can tell, I am not one of these people. If the teachers understand
how you feel, sometimes the teachers can step in and improve the situation
for all concerned (esp. the kids).

Jeff

On 14 Apr 2004 09:03:59 -0700, (Nevermind) wrote:

OK, I feel kinda mean even posting this, but I'm really curious
whether anyone else sees what I've been seeing at my kids' school.
There are all kinds of opportunities for parents to be in the school
helping out: holiday parties, special craft projects, field trips, and
also major, extra-classroom volunteer opps like planning or working at
a school fair or book fair etc. I try to give some time to projects
here and there and I also try to attend most of the in-classroom
events to which parents are invited, which has so far amounted to one
about every 6 to 8 weeks in each of my kids' classrooms.

There are also people called "classroom moms" who are the designated
parent volunteers in each class. Each class has 3 to 6 classroom moms.
I understand that the teachers call on them to organize other parents'
efforts (e.g., donating for parties) and to come in for the little
mundane helping out she might need.

In both classes, but most noticeably in my kindergartener's class, I'm
finding some of these classroom moms to be pushy nearly to the point
of offensiveness. These are clearly very smart women, and I strongly
suspect that they had good jobs before becoming stay-at-home moms.
They tend to address the rest of us "occasional" volunteers as
underlings. I feel like I'm their guest in the class as much as the
teacher's.

I think of the classroom as belonging to the teacher, not to any of
the parents based on how much time they spend there. Do I have the
wrong idea? Does anyone else have an issue with the "regular" parent
volunteers at their school? Are any of you "classroom moms" who feel
you do have the right to sort of own the classroom because you are
there so much more than most other parents?

I should note before finishing that I have also encountered a number
of extremely involved PTA parents who are also clearly very smart and
accomplished people who have the knack for making the other volunteers
feel important and "in ownership" of the projects they're working on.

They're everywhere. I encountered them in the elementary, middle and
high schools as well as ballet classes, cheerleader practice, you name
it. They're everywhere.

In their defense, I have to say that they are performing an extremely
valuable service to the underfunded public school system. I always
took a back seat to them, because they were familiar with the
classroom and I wasn't. If they hadn't been there, I'd have had to use
a lot more of my vacation time to help out.

They're pains in the neck, because they treat everyone like children.
It's demeaning, I suppose, but we're all grownups here and my
self-esteem certainly wasn't threatened by their behavior.

"Donna Metler" ) writes:
I got very good at finding this particular volunteer things which needed to
be copied, laminated, cut out, etc-anything to keep her in the lounge and
out of the room when the kids were there!

Hmm ... I wonder if I was like that volunteer without realizing it!!
I wouldn't put it past me!

I volunteered just once, I think, in the kindergarten.
The teacher had me sit away from the children and cut up
things that the children were going to use for a craft
on another day. As a working person who had signed up
for a few hours off work to spend time at the school, I
didn't get the feeling that this was a highly productive
use of my time. Any sort of interaction with the children
would have probably seemed worthwhile. I got the impression,
though, that she usually had preplanned cutting-up work
for the parent volunteers. I did it without complaining,
but wasn't keen on coming back.

I forget whether it was the same day or not, but I was
also assigned to sit with one child at a time and get them
to write their name. This was more like the sort of
interaction I was looking for. However, at that time
I had ideas that kindergarten kids should just be allowed
to play, so I wasn't too happy about actually making
them do something that was rather difficult for some of
them. However, I did it. Maybe it taught me something
about how kids do come up to expectations if you act
confident with them about it.
--
Cathy