How much greed does it take to raise a child?

And amazingly enough I devoted a great deal of my post to my ex's
abusive nature yet none of this was addressed in your comment to mine.
I wonder why that is? Typically in my research of appeals in my state,
men (fathers) appeal for financial issues and women appeal regarding
issues concerning the children. Seldomly do you find a woman appealing
based on financial issues unlesss those financial issues are regarding
the child(ren). Men are concerned with their wallets and women with
the children in the appeals I have researched so far (I have read
though hundreds of online published opinions).

John Meyer wrote:
Excuse me, but let me explain something about child support, something
which I probably should not have to do since you know enough to run the
CSE in your hometown. Child support depends on three factors: your
income, his income, and percentage of parenting time the child spends
with each parent. That's it. As soon as that marriage was finalized
who he slept with or socialized with was none of your business.
And for that matter, what business is it of yours what his new wife
makes? That's her income, not your husbands.
Your ex pays out 17 percent of his income in child support and according
to you is living fine. I'm paying out 65 percent of my take home pay,
if you want to know, not to mention health insurance at the family level
which I am required to take out on my children and myself that the ex
does not even use because the copays are too expensive. We all have
different stories here, stay around and listen to a few.

neenna66 wrote:
Lastly, my ex remarried shortly after our divorce (he cohabitated with
this woman a mere 3 weeks after filing for divorce). While they have
two incomes, I have one and that is barely min. wage due to being a
SAHM for our child. Had our marriage lasted a few scant years longer I
wuld be eligible for alimony. I could have even pushed temp alimony
but did not. I just wanted a safe home for our child, and a safe home
for myself. Is that wrong? And this ex has been proven in two seprate
dissolution actions with two seperate women to have issues of abuse and
control. My ex pays out 17% of his take home pay in cs, his new wife
makes twice what I do. They are not hurting while I am considered at
poverty level even with cs added in my income and with tax benefits

Why? Because this is alt.child-support, not alt.abuse or
alt.divorce-support. From what you have said, the physical abuse either
ended or mitigated to the point to where you can talk to your ex about
"hobbies" that you wish to be able to pursue with your child on his
dime. Moreover, I thought that child support wasn't supposed to be a
punishment for bad behavior, but rather an obligation to support the
children without regard for any sort of guilt or innocence. And I love
the stereotyping in your article regarding men, women, and children.
Maybe I don't bring up the children because I feel that they should be
left out of it. Maybe I feel that my children should not be hid behind
or be used as human shields. If there are costs and expenses then bring
them up but make sure that it is known that they are your costs.
There is the difference, my good lady. You make free use of your child
to defend your wants--and yes, hobbies are "wants", not needs, not the
basic necessities child support is supposed to cover or help cover, but
wants. I keep my children in the back, and fight my own battles. If
you were abused, I'm sorry about that, but this is not about abuse or
getting even with the ex, of whom I see a great amount of envy regarding
his income and that of his new missus (and that is none of your business
no matter what the law says).
neenna66 wrote:
And amazingly enough I devoted a great deal of my post to my ex's
abusive nature yet none of this was addressed in your comment to mine.
I wonder why that is? Typically in my research of appeals in my state,
men (fathers) appeal for financial issues and women appeal regarding
issues concerning the children. Seldomly do you find a woman appealing
based on financial issues unlesss those financial issues are regarding
the child(ren). Men are concerned with their wallets and women with
the children in the appeals I have researched so far (I have read
though hundreds of online published opinions).

Yes, and we know those standards are the same, just some kids are more
standard than others. And we're pretty lucky your opinion is just that,
your opinion.

neenna66 wrote:

Well why should the child have to suffer because dad cannt keep his
hands to himself (ie: committing domestic battery and wandering hands -
other woman)? Our state statutes have laws in place regarding standard
of living for children and for divorcing cuoples for this very reason.
Men who whine and complain about these issues are IMHO either deadbeats
or abusive or both.

And if it is the woman who decides to run off with another man? Dad still
has to maintain the standard of living, even though he was the one cheated
on?

"neenna66" wrote in message
oups.com...

DB wrote:
Here's what you bloody idiots just don't get when you decide to divorce.

It means game over, you do not continue as is, everybody loses.

And who said little Johnny gets what ever he wants when the parents are
together?
I didn't get new pants and shoes every month, I was told we couldn't
afford
new things.
Seems now the thing to do is get divorced and force Dad to pay for
everything regardless of his income.

Well why should the child have to suffer because dad cannt keep his
hands to himself (ie: committing domestic battery and wandering hands -
other woman)? Our state statutes have laws in place regarding standard
of living for children and for divorcing cuoples for this very reason.
Men who whine and complain about these issues are IMHO either deadbeats
or abusive or both.

"neenna66" wrote in message
ups.com...
In answer to your questions/issues raised - no I did not work while
married I stayed home with our child. I have no choice but to work now
because my ex hid income from the courts. Also, I did not file for
divorce, I filed for protection from abuse. I am 5'6" and weigh about
120. My ex is 6'1" and weighs 270. He had for the last 3 years of our
marriage engaged in a course of controlling, manipulative, and abusive
behaviors which I had no choice but to seek assistance from the courts
in the form of a restraining order. Lastly our child has expressed the
desire to continue this hobby to the ex to which he refuses saying I am
putting these ideas in our child's head. Our child is school age and
is able to express an opinion.

Nobody should have to put up with abuse. Sounds like you married a jerk.
Did you know about his abuse of his exwife before you married him? That is
enerally not something that changes with time. His current wife is probably
in for the same thing.


Also I realize that by posting on a father's rights message board, I am
playing against everything you stand for. I am one of "those". One of
those women whon supposedly try to cut the father from the child's
life. I also realize nothing I say will change your mind.

Really? And what makes you make that assumption? I certainly said nothing
like that in my post. You don't have a chip on your shoulder, do you?
Actually, I do not think the current system is healthy for anyone!
Sometimes the CPs get screwed. More often, the NCPs get screwed. The
system is there for the system--not for people. Not even for the children.

I don't
have to change your mind though. All I have to do is effectively
parent the child in question and provide for the child in question.
And I do that. I am teachingt his child that all abuse is wrong
something the ex wuld not do. He would not do this by the very example
he set - abusing me.

Good--I am glad you are teaching your child not to be an abuser. Does he
see his father often?


Lastly, my ex remarried shortly after our divorce (he cohabitated with
this woman a mere 3 weeks after filing for divorce). While they have
two incomes, I have one and that is barely min. wage due to being a
SAHM for our child.

How much his current wife makes is none of your business. You are not and
never have been married to her! It would be outrageous for you to get a cut
of her paycheck!

Had our marriage lasted a few scant years longer I
wuld be eligible for alimony. I could have even pushed temp alimony
but did not. I just wanted a safe home for our child, and a safe home
for myself. Is that wrong?

Not at all. And you didn't get alimony, and really can't expect child
support to make up for that. The same laws that you use to get child
support prevent yopu from getting the alimony. You've got to take the bad
with the good.

And this ex has been proven in two seprate
dissolution actions with two seperate women to have issues of abuse and
control. My ex pays out 17% of his take home pay in cs,

What percentage of his take-home pay would you consider fair? What
percentage was spent on your child when you sere still together?

his new wife
makes twice what I do.

Again, her salary has nothing whatsoever to do with you or your child.


They are not hurting while I am considered at
poverty level even with cs added in my income and with tax benefits

But, Neenna, you don't live in a commune. You are not entitled to live at
the same level they live at. She probably has more education and experience
than you do, so she commands a higher salary. It is not her fault--nor was
it her choice--that you made the decisions you did regarding your life. She
doesn't owe you for that. Get yourself some more education--even if you do
it one class at a time. Many women on this board have done that, and are
supporting their own children even when their exes flake out! Don't be
jealous of her--she is living with an abuser! Would you rather go back to
that?


And whether the dad agrees or not is irrelevant. The child's best
interests should be at the heart of this matter. I as CP will do what
I have to do to make sure our child can get the best of everything I
can provide. Dad is selfish plain and simple.

OK, so he's selfish. Being selfish is not against the law. And CSE can
only take a certain percentage of his pay for child support. No matter what
you think they should do. As long as your child's basic needs are being
met, no law is being broken. I know I don't want the state to have the
right to commandeer my income just because someone somewhere thinks their
child needs more than they are getting.



teachrmama wrote:
I am certain that it has occurred to you that when you were together,
your
salary(ies--you do work, right?) supported ONE household. Now those same
salary(ies) support TWO households. There is simply not as much money
available as there was before. Besides, if you and your child did the
activity together, why should YOU not pay for it now? Do you and the NCP
sit down together and discuss your child's needs and wants? He does have
a
part in all these decisions, right?

"neenna66" wrote in message
ups.com...

DB wrote:

SHe seems to be doing a lot of back peddling once I checked her on it.

I suspect she thought her story would get instant sympathy, but I'm
really
not sure what she wants as she has all the support of government
agencies
behind her and they can garnish his wages at any time.

Many do not understand how CSE works. I am a cp to one child and my ex
is under IDO (income deduction order) and according to our state
statutes, his employer is required to submit an amount equal to or
greater than what would be considered a periodic payment. What this
amopunts to is this: CSE multiplies his monthly obligation amount by 12
(months in the year) and divides it by his pay schedule (24 for twice
monthly, 26 for biweekly, 52 for weekly) and that is the periodic
payment amount. Further the employer is required by law to send this
payment to a central unit (State Disbursement Unit where I live) for
processing. This is all law, the employer is REQUIRED to do this by
state law. Well this is the problem I have. My ex (the NCP) gets paid
weekly, so his employer should be submitting weekly payments which are
in turn sent to me the following business day. If the employer does
not do as they are required to do then the child who deserves this
support is the one left suffering. And sadly CSE is run by many who do
not understand the law. I have been told by more than one worker that
I should apply for a job at their office, that I know more about CS
than 90% of the employees. And lastly where I live the NCP can legally
get away with making 1 periodic payment a month and CSE will do no
enforcement on him or her. This can cause huge amounts of arrears in a
very short time.

Also in response to some posts on here about "extras" - our children
had these extras when the two parents were together - why can they not
have them when wqe are divorced? Our child had a hobby that was
enjoyed by both of us - of course not by the ex - and is no longer able
to particpate due to money issues. This is extremely upsetting to our
child who continually questions why this is not allowed anymore. It is
not that it is not allowed - it is simply the NCP (dad) is selfish.

"neenna66" wrote in message
ps.com...
Her income is our business in court since our state stautes say that
adultery can be used in dissolution actions (all actions in connection
with the dissolution as well) if the adulterous spouse is attempting to
divert excessive funds to the paramour. In my own case my ex is
claiming he cannot afford his bills because of the support obligation.
Is his new wife not obligated to help with those bills since she
benfits from them - house, vehicle? If my ex is claiming that giving
me 17% of his take home pay is such a hard ship, then he needs to
resubmit his financials. His new wife has nearly exclusive use of his
vehicle. She resides in the previous marital home we jointly owned.
Is she not obligated to pay a fair share towards her residence there?
Yes, according to state statutes she should be paying something so my
ex's claims that he is barely surviving is garbage. His basic
obligations for a month are approx. 1500. Mine are 1700. He has
standard visitation with our child (every other weekend, alternating
holidays). My monthly take home pay from employment is approx 1100 his
is 2700 (not counting her's which is approx 2000 maybe more - these
figures are her 1999 income).

So you get 1100 per month plus 17% of 2700, right? So that would be 1559.
Times 12, gives you and annual income of 18,700. And, since you are
living at poverty level (according to one of your posts) you also receive
food stamps and other government support, and your child qualifies for free
breakfast and lunch at school. Plus your tax benefits, such as Head of
Household, etc. It may be difficult, and not what you are used to, but if
that is how it is right now, then that is how it is. Why should this total
stranger donate part of her salary to you? That's the part I'm not getting.


As far as your story where I live the state can only take 60% of your
pre-tax income and only in cases of arrearages. So if you lived in my
state and your claims are true - you would obviously be in arrears
which is your own fault.

Really? Arrearages are the fault of the NCP? Try this our for size: Man
spends youth living an undesirable lifestyle, but stops drinking, cleans up
his act, marries, and has 2 children. When those children are 5 and 6 years
old, he is told that he is the father of an older child, who is almost
13--and that he owes over $100,000 in arrearages. He files for a paternity
test, and finds out that he really IS the father. The mother just never
bothered to tell him that he became a father in a drunken one-night stand.
Mom lives on government handouts--welfare for as long as she qualified, then
disability, because the poor little thing just could not stop drinking.
That mean old alcohol forces itself down her throat. She has numerous
children by an equal number of fathers--and only this one father has been
"found." State law does not permit arrearages to be charged beyond 2 years
back from proof of paternity, so the $100,000 figure is dropped doen to
$28,000. Is it truly HIS fault that he has arrearages? If so, why? And
why is the mother not being held liable for the support of any of her
children? And why is this man's child support being used for the whole
family, rather than just the child it is paid for?


Also this could very well work out to 65% of
your take home pay Our court system has an appeals process (like all
states) and this is an issue you could have appealed. Or you could
just have done the right thing and paid. I know this pains you fr's to
have to give the witch any of your money but it is for your child(ren).

chuckle I am amused by your ignorance. It may be paid "for the
children," but there is no requirement anywhere that it must be SPENT on the
children. And why would 65% of a man's income EVER be considered fair?


Lastly my ex has the benefit of the tax exemption for our child every
year with no basis in our decree stating why he should have it nor
providing extra child support to offset the loss of that exemption to
me. For every sob story about NCP dads there are several for CP
mothers.

I doubt that it comes out at 1 sob story for NCPs = 3 or 4 sob stories for
CPs. But, as I have stated many times, the system doesn't care who gets
screwed, so long as the system is not harmed.


John Meyer wrote:
Excuse me, but let me explain something about child support, something
which I probably should not have to do since you know enough to run the
CSE in your hometown. Child support depends on three factors: your
income, his income, and percentage of parenting time the child spends
with each parent. That's it. As soon as that marriage was finalized
who he slept with or socialized with was none of your business.
And for that matter, what business is it of yours what his new wife
makes? That's her income, not your husbands.
Your ex pays out 17 percent of his income in child support and according
to you is living fine. I'm paying out 65 percent of my take home pay,
if you want to know, not to mention health insurance at the family level
which I am required to take out on my children and myself that the ex
does not even use because the copays are too expensive. We all have
different stories here, stay around and listen to a few.

neenna66 wrote:
Lastly, my ex remarried shortly after our divorce (he cohabitated with
this woman a mere 3 weeks after filing for divorce). While they have
two incomes, I have one and that is barely min. wage due to being a
SAHM for our child. Had our marriage lasted a few scant years longer I
wuld be eligible for alimony. I could have even pushed temp alimony
but did not. I just wanted a safe home for our child, and a safe home
for myself. Is that wrong? And this ex has been proven in two seprate
dissolution actions with two seperate women to have issues of abuse and
control. My ex pays out 17% of his take home pay in cs, his new wife
makes twice what I do. They are not hurting while I am considered at
poverty level even with cs added in my income and with tax benefits

"neenna66" wrote
.........................
My ex pays out 17% of his take home pay in cs, his new wife
makes twice what I do. They are not hurting while I am considered at
poverty level even with cs added in my income and with tax benefits
==
Your standard of living is not your ex's responsibility. His/his wife's
standard of living is not your business. If you desire
a higher standard of living, it is your responsibility to attain it--go back
to school, get a higher paying/second job. You
are not entitled to a handout--your child is entitled to half his/her needs
met by you and half by his/her dad. Period.

"neenna66" wrote
And amazingly enough I devoted a great deal of my post to my ex's
abusive nature yet none of this was addressed in your comment to mine.
I wonder why that is?
==
Because we hear this all the time and it is usually only a prop for pity.
It also usually doesn't surface until the poster attempts to justify
support/divorce.
We are very aware of how often an allegation of abuse is used by women for
financial gain.
Further, it is irrelevent to child support.

"neenna66" wrote in

Well why should the child have to suffer because dad cannt keep his
hands to himself (ie: committing domestic battery and wandering hands -
other woman)? Our state statutes have laws in place regarding standard
of living for children and for divorcing cuoples for this very reason.

Laws are not to be abused in the name of revenge, lady you sound very
bitter!
Maybe take a good look at yourself and figure out why your husband had to
leave you?
Men are only human too, did you think he woudl be happy living with a Nag
that didn't look after herself?
I've never known a healthy relationship to be busted up by a 3rd party, if
people would be mature enough to admit the relationship is not working, then
a lot of hurt feelings could be saved before the split.

You seem very informed about his life, why don't you forget about his life
and get on with your own?
Do you really want to go to your grave as a lonely and bitter old woman?

Men who whine and complain about these issues are IMHO either deadbeats
or abusive or both.

Yes, we can see you have convinced yourself of this!

I'm sure you're always so gleeful when the gas company hikes the price of
gas or when your insurance rates keep going up? Don't you just love paying
taxes?

**** off ya whinee old coot, be glad that you have a roof over your head and
can eat on a dailey basis.
People like you are so ungrateful for what they have, their are plenty more
that woudl gladly trade places.

And quit with the stay at home mommy bit, what do you do all day long when
the child is in school? Roll Eyes

Try to have a nice day!

I was going to write a very sarcastic and nasty post right back at you.
But I am a little more refined than that. I do not care what any of
you woman haters write on this board. I will lurk form here on out.
To think I could actually carry on an intelligent conversation with any
of you. Well there were a few posters who seemed to have that ability,
but your nastiness has far outweighed the value of a good debate and
problem solving to fix everything wrong with our system. And it is sad
that you have to resort to using nasty names to get your point across.
I imagine your next issue will be, well if mom cannot get a good enough
job to support the child in the manner he or she has been accustomed
to, then give the child to me. I will do it. All well and good if you
did it before. My ex DID NOT. I did, plain and simple. I took our
child to doctor appts, to preschool functions, to church, to birthday
parties. I did everything except for one small detail. I stayed at
hoem with little or no income. And I stand by my statement, adultery
can and should be used against any man trying to reduce his support
obligation. If his lifestyle is too expensive due to cs, then he needs
to cut something out or get a second job. The needs of the next spouse
should not overide the needs of the child. Again, why should the child
suffer because one person (in my case, the ex) decides he just cannot
keep his hands to himself and feels the need to abuse his spouse? And
to answer your reply or another reply in this thread about the supposed
abuse excuse.......the abuse was brought up long before the divorce
was. there were several police reports filed regarding the abuse.
This was not brought up to bolster my divorce/child support case.
Abuse was brought up so I culd feel safe and not have to worry about
the next time - would I be around to watch our child become an adult or
would I be buried in our yard as had been threatened. He filed for
divorce nearly 6 months after the first police report was filed and 3
months after the RO. This case was not a case of "let's use the abuse
excuse so I can get a good settlement". If that was the case I would
be living in the nice house paying the mortgage and he would be renting
right now. I chose safety over monetary issues. Lastly as far as the
schooling issue is concerned, the child in question was just starting
into homeschooling. As far as being a bitter old woman or a cold nag,
I am neither. I have many friends, an active social life with our
child and without our child. I enjoy my current job, and I have no
desire to change anything. I am safe I do not have to worry about
being beaten. I can do as I please as long as it is legal to do so
where I live. I do not worry near as much as I used to about our child
growing up to be abused or being an abuser. I know that since our
child is with me the vast majority of the time I will instill in our
child a sense of ethics and values which my ex was unable to do.
Beating your spouse is not very ethical now is it?
DB wrote:
"neenna66" wrote in

Well why should the child have to suffer because dad cannt keep his
hands to himself (ie: committing domestic battery and wandering hands -
other woman)? Our state statutes have laws in place regarding standard
of living for children and for divorcing cuoples for this very reason.

Laws are not to be abused in the name of revenge, lady you sound very
bitter!
Maybe take a good look at yourself and figure out why your husband had to
leave you?
Men are only human too, did you think he woudl be happy living with a Nag
that didn't look after herself?
I've never known a healthy relationship to be busted up by a 3rd party, if
people would be mature enough to admit the relationship is not working, then
a lot of hurt feelings could be saved before the split.

You seem very informed about his life, why don't you forget about his life
and get on with your own?
Do you really want to go to your grave as a lonely and bitter old woman?

Men who whine and complain about these issues are IMHO either deadbeats
or abusive or both.

Yes, we can see you have convinced yourself of this!

I'm sure you're always so gleeful when the gas company hikes the price of
gas or when your insurance rates keep going up? Don't you just love paying
taxes?

**** off ya whinee old coot, be glad that you have a roof over your head and
can eat on a dailey basis.
People like you are so ungrateful for what they have, their are plenty more
that woudl gladly trade places.

And quit with the stay at home mommy bit, what do you do all day long when
the child is in school? Roll Eyes

Try to have a nice day!