Friendship problem for my 9 year old

"Welches" wrote in message
...

"Stephanie" wrote in message
news:ts_7i.19$fX4.17@trndny03...

"Vickie" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Jun 1, 10:24 am, Jeff wrote:

I think what is going on here is that the girl is testing your
daughter.
She is scared that your daughter will back away or stop acting like
her friend. Considering all the stuff she has had to put up with, I
don't blame her. So, basically, she is acting normally for 9-year old
girl who has had a lot of relationship problems with her mom, her dad
and kids at school. You would too if you had all the issues she does.

It's not your job or your daughter's job to provide counseling for
another person's daughter. That is essentially what she is asking you
to do.

Part of me is saying that the girl will be in big trouble if someone
doesn't step in and help her. Obviously, the mother is not doing it.
You
might be the only one who will be able to help.

Part of me is saying that if you get more involved, you'll only set up
yourself and your daughter for more heartache. And you probably won't
make a difference.

I think I would make a two-part plan. I would call child protective
services or what state or local agency protects kids, and fill them in.
They may be able to step in and help. It's their job, not yours.
Whatever, happens, end of part 1.

And I would get a backbone and say that you're not going to let girl
see
your daughter until the girl and her sister (and maybe the mother, too)
get into counseling.

If that happens, I would be expecting a lot of acting out when she gets
to your home. She is going to test her welcome very much. However, once
she knows that she is truly welcome, she may stop acting out so much
and
have much better behavior.

Whether you want to cave in and the girl see your daughter if she
doesn't get counseling is up to you to decide later.

These are just my thoughts.

Jeff- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I appreciate your thoughts.

Gosh, calling child protective services. I don't know. I almost want
to just pay myself for the girl to go to a therapist, but I don't
think I am strong enough to handle a whole set of someone else's
problems along with my own family dynamic.




Child Protective Services is, indeed, a very scary prospect. Very scary.
That said... man knifes mom blood everywhere and 9yo has to phone 911.
Someone *else* might do something. But then again, maybe they won't.
Counseling over this one event is necessary, to be sure.

I would have thought if this was the situation then the police would have
been involved and I'd have thought that police would have informed CPS at
least. If nothing else some provision must have been made for the children
while mum was in hospital.


I thought that too. But if you don't know you don't know.


I wonder how much you trust the stories she tells. Not saying they're
entirely fake, just maybe exaggerated for sympathy.
It sounds to me like they do need help, whether or not this is true, but I
agree you're not the one to do it. It needs professionals to help
properly. As your daughter has other friends now I'd encourage her to keep
those friends. It sounds to me as if this other girl could expect her to
drop everyone else if they're friends-as you might expect because she
probably needs the security of not thinking your daughter might "go off"
with someone else.
I think I'd explain to my daughter that this other girl has a hard home
life-don't need to go into details, she may have had them anyway. Suggest
if she tells her anything that upsets her about homelife then to tell
someone else-either you or a teacher. Ask her to be kind to her, if she's
on her own invite her to join in, maybe do some work together. But at the
same time encourage her to walk away if she's being nasty, and not to
break with other friends. Make sure she is seeing plenty of other friends
so she has plenty of others to go with. And I would speak to the teachers,
just to say please watch this friendship, as there has been nastiness
here. They should know a bit about the homelife of the other girl anyway.

Calling CPS isn't a bad idea, but it does seem hard to do. Is there
something like "The Samaritans" (volunteer councelling telephone service
in UK) that you could talk it through with? They maight even do the
informing the CPS for you so if she says "did you tell them" you can
honestly say "no".



I wished there was something HERE like that!


Debbie

I know calling CPS is hard. I have done it. As a child care provider, I
am a mandatory reporter. I can share my experience in case it helps you
to decide what you need to do. This is how it worked at my state. Don't
know if yours is the same. They may take your name. They had to take my
name, in my case. I don't know if that is always the case. They do NOT
tell the other party who made the report. In my case, I fessed up. The
Mom would have been able to figure it out anyway. So details of your
story may give a clue to the Mom. They ask you what you heard, saw and
whatnot. They do not ask you for your judgments. Very only the facts
Maam. Very professional.




You really think calling would be ok?


Your only decision is to report or not report what you know. THEIR
decision is whether or not children need intervention. That can be
reassuring. In my opinion, reporting would be better than Ok. If knives
are being placed into other human beings bodies in that household, then
she is in imminent danger. What would happen, for instance, if she were
to try to intervene with her Mom's assault next time?


I really don't think the mom
has the mind or money to help her children. She has told me she is on
a waiting list to get counseling, but it was only in regards to her,
not the kids.

I agree with you about what the little girl is projecting, which is
why I tried to hang in as long as I could. It was when it started to
effect my own daughter, who has some issues of her own, that I
couldn't deal anymore.

Do you have experience with this service?

Vickie


Good luck, Vickie. This sounds truely awful.

"Aula" wrote in message
...

"Jeff" wrote in message
news:Q858i.44$fX4.41@trndny03...
Also, the crisis center isn't just for abused females. The crisis centers
are also for abused males, too.



Well...some are some aren't. The one in Brattleboro VT is very clear in
stating that they serve women. They also draw the line at allowing male
child above about age 12 into the shelter if the mother flees accompanied
by them. IOW, various shelters have various philosophies and battered men
are generally underserved, ime, and often discredited by others so less
likely to step forward for help.

-Aula


Not all shelters are motivated so much by lack of sympathy for battered men
but by the difficulties of serving both communities. I was positively
*amazed* the lengths to which batterers would go to get access to their
victims when I worked at a women's shelter. It can be a simple measure of
protection.

I agree that there is more of a stigma around being a battered man that
prevents them from getting help though.

Stephanie wrote:
"Aula" wrote in message
...
"Jeff" wrote in message
news:Q858i.44$fX4.41@trndny03...
Also, the crisis center isn't just for abused females. The crisis centers
are also for abused males, too.


Well...some are some aren't. The one in Brattleboro VT is very clear in
stating that they serve women. They also draw the line at allowing male
child above about age 12 into the shelter if the mother flees accompanied
by them. IOW, various shelters have various philosophies and battered men
are generally underserved, ime, and often discredited by others so less
likely to step forward for help.

-Aula


Not all shelters are motivated so much by lack of sympathy for battered men
but by the difficulties of serving both communities. I was positively
*amazed* the lengths to which batterers would go to get access to their
victims when I worked at a women's shelter. It can be a simple measure of
protection.

I agree that there is more of a stigma around being a battered man that
prevents them from getting help though.

Thanks Stephanie and Aula for your clarifications to my comments.

I definitely should have said something like there are some shelters
that help men in need.

Jeff

On Jun 2, 4:18 am, "deja.blues" wrote:
"Vickie" wrote in message

ups.com...



Then, the big news. She told me her daughter really needed my
daughter's friendship right now because a couple months ago, her
husband, on drugs, came over, while the little girl was there, and
attacked her (the mom). She said he had a knife, stabbed her, slashed
her neck, threw her around, while she screamed for the little girl to
call 911. I was horrified and felt so bad for her. But, as a mom, a
kept focusing on her 2 girls and asking if they were getting the
therapy they needed. She kept blowing that off and talking about
herself and how horrible it was for her. I agree but I was really
focused on the little girl who saw all of this happening. I couldn't
even figure out if the mom had even tried to get counseling for the
girls.

Are you sure this is true? She could be making this up to manipulate you and
your daughter.

God, I didn't even think of that! No, couldn't be. All the details
she mentioned with police, etc. Why would someone do that?
Vickie

On Jun 2, 10:18 am, Vickie wrote:
On Jun 2, 4:18 am, "deja.blues" wrote:





"Vickie" wrote in message

oups.com...

Then, the big news. She told me her daughter really needed my
daughter's friendship right now because a couple months ago, her
husband, on drugs, came over, while the little girl was there, and
attacked her (the mom). She said he had a knife, stabbed her, slashed
her neck, threw her around, while she screamed for the little girl to
call 911. I was horrified and felt so bad for her. But, as a mom, a
kept focusing on her 2 girls and asking if they were getting the
therapy they needed. She kept blowing that off and talking about
herself and how horrible it was for her. I agree but I was really
focused on the little girl who saw all of this happening. I couldn't
even figure out if the mom had even tried to get counseling for the
girls.

Are you sure this is true? She could be making this up to manipulate you and
your daughter.

God, I didn't even think of that! No, couldn't be. All the details
she mentioned with police, etc. Why would someone do that?
Vickie- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

OK. Forget that last question.

I guess I just don't want to feel that someone would play me like
that, but I guess it is important for me to find out the extent of the
situation before I take any steps.

Vickie

Vickie wrote:
On Jun 2, 4:18 am, "deja.blues" wrote:
"Vickie" wrote in message

ups.com...



Then, the big news. She told me her daughter really needed my
daughter's friendship right now because a couple months ago, her
husband, on drugs, came over, while the little girl was there, and
attacked her (the mom). She said he had a knife, stabbed her, slashed
her neck, threw her around, while she screamed for the little girl to
call 911. I was horrified and felt so bad for her. But, as a mom, a
kept focusing on her 2 girls and asking if they were getting the
therapy they needed. She kept blowing that off and talking about
herself and how horrible it was for her. I agree but I was really
focused on the little girl who saw all of this happening. I couldn't
even figure out if the mom had even tried to get counseling for the
girls.
Are you sure this is true? She could be making this up to manipulate you and
your daughter.

God, I didn't even think of that! No, couldn't be. All the details
she mentioned with police, etc. Why would someone do that?

A related medical condition is Munchausen Syndrome by Proxy
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fabrica...duced_Illness). In this, a
parent or other caregiver fakes an illness, usually in a child, so that
the parent can get sympathy.

If someone does that, someone could lie about the police.

I am not suggesting this is the case, only saying it could happen.

Jeff

Vickie

IMO, the school needs to be notified. I am a teacher and I believe
that there are not one teacher anywhere who would feel bothered by
being told this information. In fact, I would guess that the teachers
have been very worried about this little girl and have been hoping and
waiting for any information that they could get in an attempt to help
her. I know that it can be difficult to talk to teachers about other
children's problems when you really want (and should) be spending all
of your energy focusing on your own family, but imagine the guilt and
sadness if the girl or her sister ended up seriously hurt or worse.
For whatever reason, the mother choose to tell you this information
and you really should report it. It could save the girls lives. They
did not ask for this situation any more than you did and in the matter
of a few minute that a telephone call takes, you could help them by
getting people involved that have the skills and time to find
resources for the family, counseling for the girls, and Child and
Youth service intervention. Just a thought....thanks for reading.

On Jun 2, 1:29?pm, Jeff wrote:
Vickie wrote:
On Jun 2, 4:18 am, "deja.blues" wrote:
"Vickie" wrote in message

roups.com...

Then, the big news. She told me her daughter really needed my
daughter's friendship right now because a couple months ago, her
husband, on drugs, came over, while the little girl was there, and
attacked her (the mom). She said he had a knife, stabbed her, slashed
her neck, threw her around, while she screamed for the little girl to
call 911. I was horrified and felt so bad for her. But, as a mom, a
kept focusing on her 2 girls and asking if they were getting the
therapy they needed. She kept blowing that off and talking about
herself and how horrible it was for her. I agree but I was really
focused on the little girl who saw all of this happening. I couldn't
even figure out if the mom had even tried to get counseling for the
girls.
Are you sure this is true? She could be making this up to manipulate you and
your daughter.

God, I didn't even think of that! No, couldn't be. All the details
she mentioned with police, etc. Why would someone do that?

A related medical condition is Munchausen Syndrome by Proxy
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fabrica...duced_Illness). In this, a
parent or other caregiver fakes an illness, usually in a child, so that
the parent can get sympathy.

If someone does that, someone could lie about the police.

I am not suggesting this is the case, only saying it could happen.

Jeff



Vickie- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

My heart breaks for this girl at potentially losing a friend that she
may hold dear and has no example of a healthy relationship to follow.
I don't see any reason really why they still can't be friends, if your
child wants to be that is. Letting them remain friends with some
proper guidance for the friend as to how that goes is one thing and
learning to say "no", "i don't have it" or "I can't help right now" to
the mother is another issue entirely. Heck, when she visits your
house, just a simple touch on the shoulder and a "how's everything
going for ya sweetie?" can make all the difference in the world in a
child's life. Sorry, I was thinking more along the lines of giving a
child some hope and an example of a normal world, one she may never
know because nobody wants to be associated with her mother - not her
fault kwim?

"Vickie" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Jun 2, 10:18 am, Vickie wrote:
On Jun 2, 4:18 am, "deja.blues" wrote:
"Vickie" wrote in message

oups.com...

Then, the big news. She told me her daughter really needed my
daughter's friendship right now because a couple months ago, her
husband, on drugs, came over, while the little girl was there, and
attacked her (the mom). She said he had a knife, stabbed her,
slashed
her neck, threw her around, while she screamed for the little girl to
call 911. I was horrified and felt so bad for her. But, as a mom, a
kept focusing on her 2 girls and asking if they were getting the
therapy they needed. She kept blowing that off and talking about
herself and how horrible it was for her. I agree but I was really
focused on the little girl who saw all of this happening. I couldn't
even figure out if the mom had even tried to get counseling for the
girls.

Are you sure this is true? She could be making this up to manipulate
you and
your daughter.

God, I didn't even think of that! No, couldn't be. All the details
she mentioned with police, etc. Why would someone do that?
Vickie- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

OK. Forget that last question.

I guess I just don't want to feel that someone would play me like
that, but I guess it is important for me to find out the extent of the
situation before I take any steps.

Vickie

I'm just sayin'!
Seriously, addicts are consummate liars and manipulators, and very selfish
..
A close friend of DH's has been living here for the past month after
extricating himself from a ten-year relationship with an alcoholic bi-polar
woman.
She has two girls, now 17 and 15, and DH's friend is understandably very
close to them, having been in their lives since they were 5 and 7. After he
left, she's called him multiple times a day with all kinds of dramatic
life-or-death stories to suck him back into their lives.

Maybe your daughter's friends mom isn't doing this, but my advice is to take
her story with a large grain of salt. Oh, and talk to the teacher as other
posters have said.

On Sat, 02 Jun 2007 16:34:54 GMT, Jeff
wrote:

Stephanie wrote:
"Aula" wrote in message
...
"Jeff" wrote in message
news:Q858i.44$fX4.41@trndny03...
Also, the crisis center isn't just for abused females. The crisis centers
are also for abused males, too.


Well...some are some aren't. The one in Brattleboro VT is very clear in
stating that they serve women. They also draw the line at allowing male
child above about age 12 into the shelter if the mother flees accompanied
by them. IOW, various shelters have various philosophies and battered men
are generally underserved, ime, and often discredited by others so less
likely to step forward for help.

-Aula


Not all shelters are motivated so much by lack of sympathy for battered men
but by the difficulties of serving both communities. I was positively
*amazed* the lengths to which batterers would go to get access to their
victims when I worked at a women's shelter. It can be a simple measure of
protection.

I agree that there is more of a stigma around being a battered man that
prevents them from getting help though.

Thanks Stephanie and Aula for your clarifications to my comments.

I definitely should have said something like there are some shelters
that help men in need.

Jeff

The shelter I worked at wouldn't allow adult males, but we had access
to several places battered men could receive help. We could do
outreach for them, but not provide physical shelter.

Nan