Preteens grouped w/younger kids or older?

Jeff wrote:
"Chris" wrote in message
(...)

I can definitely understand an 11 year old being bored with the
traditional after-school program and I would at least give the
alternative a try.

I agree. It would be good to have a backup plan, in case things do work out,
like going back with the 8 and 9 year olds.

Yeah, I agree, too. I've already touched bases with the head of her
current program, and we could return there. Or even swap off weeks. I
think we should do a one-week trial of the middle schooler program and
then see what The Kid would prefer to do. The only downside is that the
program could fill up. On the other hand, though, I don't really want
to commit my kid to a whole summer of a program that she may not like.

The kids in the afterschool program that morphs into a summer program
aren't just 8 or 9. It runs the gauntlet from preschool through
elementary age. The bulk of the kids, however, are on the
quite-a-bit-younger side.

Thanks for writing.

beeswing

animzmirot wrote:
Because my son is academically advanced 2 full years, he has no choice but
to socialize with kids that are, on average, 3 years older than he is. We've
had a few issues, mostly due to his wanting desperately to be feeling the
same feelings his friends, who have mostly passed through puberty while my
kid hasn't even started, are experiencing with regards to the opposite
gender. Other than that, he's basically much much happier with older kids
who are much more in synch with his intellectual ability and his sense of
humor. His age peers really don't get him at all.

His twin sister, who shares his very late August b'day, is also in classes
with kids at least a year older. Ditto for camp. She also fits in much
better with older kids, even though academically she might be a bit lost.
She's just more mature socially than her age peers after being with older
kids her entire academic life. This summer she'll be attending the 'teen'
program at camp, for kids 13+, but she won't be 13 until the very end of
August. Gradewise she's fine, but she is a bit immature in some aspects
socially, like being truthful and trustworthy. She's a teenage girl,
afterall!

Her brother is going away to Yale for summer camp this summer in a program
for high schoolers. He will be the youngest by several years, and it might
be challanging socially for him. He's mature in some aspects, and a real
little boy in other aspects. This might be a tough summer for him, but I
have faith that he's going to be much happier in this program than staying
with his age peers.

I guess I think that your kid, who is after all only 6 months shy of 11,
will be happier with older peers than in a boring afterschool program. I'd
definately try it if I were you.

Thanks for your stories. It's especially helpful because my daugher is
younger but academically advanced, so I appreciate hearing how your
kids did with older kids.

At school, my daughter has been in an accelerated class with same-age
peers, so this will be her first time interacting at any length with
older kids. On the other hand, she starts middle school (there's a 5th
grade) next year and this exactly the age of the kids she'll need to be
adjusting to.

beeswing

Rosalie B. wrote:
"beeswing" wrote:

When my oldest daughter was almost 11, I sent her to Girl Scout camp
(sleepover) for a week, and then to a primitive horse camp (also GS)
for a week. At the regular camp, she was in a group of 9-11 year olds
and this was a positive experience.

That's great. The Kid is going to Girl Scout camp for a week and will
be in a unit of Junior-aged kids. She's right smack in the middle of
the age range, and I expect that she'll really like being among kids
her age unstead of younger.

However the primitive camp was for 11-14 year olds and she was about
the youngest there. She was not large for her age, although she was
quite academically advanced, and she was emotionally mature, but not
physically or socially mature.

My daughter looks like a teenager. *sigh* So physically, she'll
probably blend in. Socially? I don't know. Could indeed pose a problem.

She had no problem with the primitive part of the camping experience -
they had tents, but they had to do their own cooking, carry water,
from a pump etc. She loved the horseback riding part of the camp.

Her problem was that she needed quite a bit of sleep - she's not the
kind of kid that can sit up all night and function the next day. The
other girls were into nail polish and talking about boys and were
wearing bras whereas she was still a little girl. They teased her a
bit about that, and about the fact that she wanted to go to sleep
rather than painting her toenails or something.

Yeah, this stuff concerns me: the whole girls must be into boys and
fingernail polish (though not necessarily in that order.) One of the
reasons she's unhappy with her current school is that she dislikes this
kind of "girl talk" -- and that leaves her excluded.


I don't think she was
totally miserable or anything, but I think it could have been a better
experience for her.

I also had a bad week at a Girl Scout camp where I was in a tent with
a couple of girls from the orphanage who were less socially mature
than the average, and a couple of girls who were much more socially
mature than the average, and I was in the middle. I spent a lot of
time sitting out on the bluff (and got a really bad case of chiggers)
until the counselors called me in to talk to me. I remember
dissolving into tears.

This was my only really bad camp experience though out of many weeks
at camp and while it was a similar problem to that which my daughter
experience, it was not really due to an age difference. So my point
is that a sleepover camp experience depends a lot on the people you
are with, and age is only one factor.

For your daughter, I think the problem will be much less at a day camp
type place - I think the problems my daughter and I experienced would
not have been problems if we were only there during the day.

I appreciate you sharing your perspective. Thanks for writing.

beeswubg

Penny Gaines wrote:

One option might be for her to act as some kind of helper with the
younger kids at the current daycare. She might be bored being expected
to do what the 8 & 9 yos are doing, but she might enjoy being the big
girl helping the toddlers.

It's a good idea -- her current program thought of it, too. They've
been trying it out (having her help out with the preschoolers at times)
with some success. But I think what The Kid really needs is some more
same-age/similar-intellect peers. She's getting really burnt out on
having preschoolers demolish her elaborately built block structures and
such and trying to play basketball and kickball with five-year-olds.
It's understandable enough.

Thanks for writing.

beeswing

In article .com,
beeswing wrote:

With both programs, you can sign up a week at a time (conceivably,
though, they could fill up some weeks). I'm thinking we should try the
middle schooler camp for a week, then see what The Kid would prefer to
do. She could even swap off weeks and move between the two.

You should find out if they usually do tend to fill up, and what their
cancellation policies are (should you wish to hedge your bets and
sign up for both for some of the weeks). Around here, it would be hard
to get a kid into later weeks of a "good" summer program after summer
begins. They are starting to fill up around now, with the reality of
school ending in under 2 weeks finally hitting home with the parents.

It sounds like you need her to be in a program for childcare as much
as to entertain her, and if so, you don't want to end up high and dry
should the desired (or worse both!) program(s) fill up while you're
deciding.

Good luck!

--Robyn
..

Robyn Kozierok wrote:

You should find out if they usually do tend to fill up, and what their
cancellation policies are (should you wish to hedge your bets and
sign up for both for some of the weeks). Around here, it would be hard
to get a kid into later weeks of a "good" summer program after summer
begins. They are starting to fill up around now, with the reality of
school ending in under 2 weeks finally hitting home with the parents.

It sounds like you need her to be in a program for childcare as much
as to entertain her, and if so, you don't want to end up high and dry
should the desired (or worse both!) program(s) fill up while you're
deciding.

Good luck!

Thanks for the good advice. We do need childcare, but we're very lucky
on one count -- we're assured a place in her current program any week
we need one. So that's a weight off our shoulders.

That leaves the question of whether or not the middle schooler program
might fill up...and it might just. I should ask them the likelihood, as
you suggest.

At least we're not high and dry if it turns out she can't get in. I'd
really rather try at least one week in the new program (if The Kid
chooses to go that route) before committing to an entire summer there.

Thanks for writing.

beeswing

In article .com,
beeswing wrote:

Thanks for the good advice. We do need childcare, but we're very lucky
on one count -- we're assured a place in her current program any week
we need one. So that's a weight off our shoulders.

Ah, that does make things considerably less stressful! I was afraid
if you waited until she had a chance to try the new program, you
might find *both* programs full for at least some of the weeks, leaving
you in a bind. Obviously, it would stink if she loves the new program
and then can't get in for the rest of the summer, but at least she'd
know about it for the next year. In any case, I'd bet that some
weeks might have openings if not all.

I don't know how your daughter is about change/variety, but you might
see if there are some shorter-term special-interest camps she might be
interested in for a single week for variety. My kids like the variety
and are signed up for a dizzying array of special-interest day camps
for the part of the summer we need them to do that for childcare
purposes: arts and crafts, gymnastics, soccer, history, animals, music,
horseback riding, etc... Our local library keeps a folder of summer
camp flyers that is a good place to start.

Anyhow, I hope whatever you end up doing works out well for your
daughter! The tween years can be tough. I am starting to see this
with my 11yo as well.

--Robyn
..

For nearly ten years, I have been the storyteller at two residential youth camps at a Quaker conference center near Santa Cruz in California. The camps started 12 years ago with one session for ages 9 and up. After two summers, that got split into two sessions by grade level. One is for rising fifth, sixth, and seventh graders, the other for rising eighth, ninth, and tenth graders. We have made a few exceptions about the 7/8 placement to keep friends or siblings together, but we usually resist the requests of parents to have an eighth grader in the younger camp when that seems based on the parents' wish to postpone teenageness.

I really enjoy working with the younger camp age range [mostly 9 to 12] in storytelling and community building activities drawn from the Alternatives to Violence Project. We have had a few seventh grade campers who came for the first time with an 'I'm really too old for this' attitude about some activities, but our counselors are mostly former campers and great at drawing everyone in. Usually each camp has 25 - 30 campers, 6 teen counselors, 3 young adult program planners/leaders, and 6 older adult support staff.

This year each camp still has a few spaces left. You can find out more about them at http://www.quakercenter.org/Pages/Pr...uakerCamp.html and
http://www.quakercenter.org/Pages/Pr...rviceCamp.html

Tom Farley, Spontaneous Combustion Storytellers http://www.spont.com/

On 2005-06-03, Robyn Kozierok wrote:
You should find out if they usually do tend to fill up, and what their
cancellation policies are (should you wish to hedge your bets and
sign up for both for some of the weeks). Around here, it would be hard
to get a kid into later weeks of a "good" summer program after summer
begins. They are starting to fill up around now, with the reality of
school ending in under 2 weeks finally hitting home with the parents.

"starting to fill up around now"?
You must either have a *lot* of summer programs available, or few
parents interested in them

Most of the programs we were interested in opened registration in
March and filled up in April.

------------------------------------------------------------
Kevin Karplus http://www.soe.ucsc.edu/~karplus
Professor of Biomolecular Engineering, University of California, Santa Cruz
Undergraduate and Graduate Director, Bioinformatics
(Senior member, IEEE) (Board of Directors, ISCB)
life member (LAB, Adventure Cycling, American Youth Hostels)
Effective Cycling Instructor #218-ck (lapsed)
Affiliations for identification only.

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Kevin Karplus wrote:

"starting to fill up around now"?
You must either have a *lot* of summer programs available, or few
parents interested in them

Most of the programs we were interested in opened registration in
March and filled up in April.

We did have to register for Girl Scout resident camp that early, and I
know if we were trying to get The Kid into aquarium camp (which she did
one week one year) or another special-interest program, we'd have to
book early. Our current program feeds out of the
before-and-after-school program and usually just has a subset of those
kids there, so they basically staff it to fit. The other one we're
looking at is a community center program, and as such, there's not
probably as big of a draw.

beeswing