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Poll: Birth Control



 
 
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  #101  
Old December 22nd 05, 06:46 PM posted to misc.kids.breastfeeding
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Default Birth Control


"Cathy Weeks" wrote in message
oups.com...
LOL Fair enough! I *do* wonder how they gather their info, though.


Probably a longish term trial study where they track women and calculate the
numbers from how many women get pregnant.

Jess


  #102  
Old December 22nd 05, 06:51 PM posted to misc.kids.breastfeeding
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Default Birth Control

"Nikki" wrote in message
...
Circe wrote:
"Catherine Woodgold" wrote in message
...
"Circe" ) writes:
I'm not opposed to vasectomies; I'm just opposed to forcing anybody
to undergo a surgical procedure (or have an IUD or take BCPs or
anything else)
against their will. There are nearly always other alternatives.

Nobody's being forced into anything. There's always abstinence.


Well, there's "force" and there's "force". Telling your spouse you're
not going to have sex with him/her any more until he/she does X is a
form of coercion, and anyone who thinks otherwise is fooling herself.


Telling your spouse you are unwilling to do anything about birth control
is just as forceful. It is just more passive. If Bob and Sally have a
healthy sex life and want no more kids and Bob tells Sally that he will
not partake in any type of birth control he is forcing Sally into a few
options a) take care of it herself, b) risk pregnancy, c) avoid sex. In
each of those cases Bob has forced Sally's hand, IMO, unless they have
mutually agreed on one of those as a good solution for both of them. Lets
say that there is no mutual agreement though. I take it most people here
do not feel that the first option is any big deal as long as it is applied
to the woman and not the man simply because she has more options to choose
from. The second two choices are then bounced back and make the woman
look like the manipulator.

No, it's not a matter of the woman being the manipulator and the man not
being one, it's just a matter of life not always being fair. It is not fair
that there are only two methods of birth control that men control, and that
of those, one is both surgical and permanent. It is not fair that only women
get pregnant and give birth. It is not fair that a woman who IS pregnant has
the final say on whether to terminate that pregnancy or not.

What I think I am trying to say is that it is wrong-headed to go into a
discussion about a decision that affects both partners in unequal ways with
the idea that you can MAKE it "fair". You can't.

In a situation like the one you've just described, Sally is responsible for
what Sally chooses to do (or not do) and Bob is responsible for what Bob
chooses to do (or not to). The CONSEQUENCE of those choices affects them
both (although in different ways), but each person can only be responsible
for what he/she is responsible for. So, in this scenario, Sally and Bob sit
down and discuss what each is willing (or not willing) to do. If Sally
states that she would prefer to risk pregnancy than to use contraceptives
herself or have no sex, Bob gets to decide whether that changes his
decisions about using contraceptives himself or having sex himself. If
neither of them is willing to use contraception or stop having sex, then
they will likely wind up having more children, but it will be a MUTUAL
decision (because BOTH of them decided what each was willing to do based on
what the other was willing to do). It may not be the choice either would
have preferred (Sally might prefer Bob get the snip and Bob might prefer
that Sally use contraceptives) and if may affect Sally in a more direct way
(at least initially) than Bob, but in the end, it IS a mutual decision. BOTH
of them are having their hands forced EQUALLY, IMO, although the choices
each one has may not be deemed to be "fair" by either party.

Marriages in which both parties expect absolute parity on every issue are
doomed to failure. In all marriages, there are times when one party does
"more" than the other. Attempts to keep a mental balance sheet to somehow
ensure that each person does his/her "fair share" always lead to one or both
parties feeling certain that he/she is doing "more" than the other. The
recipe for success in a marriage is to do and give all you *can* do and
give; no more and no less. It doesn't mean there won't be times when each
partner feels some resentment that he/she is doing "more" than the other or
"not a fair share", but if either partner starts thinking that way for too
long, there will be problems. (Recent events in my 16-year marriage have
driven this point home to me in ways I am not prepared to go into here, but
suffice it to say that both my husband and I needed an attitude adjustment
and we got it!)
--
Be well, Barbara


  #103  
Old December 22nd 05, 06:54 PM posted to misc.kids.breastfeeding
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Default Birth Control


"Circe" wrote in message
news:j7Cqf.179$sA3.87@fed1read02...
Of course, if there was no string at all, you wouldn't have any way to be
sure it hadn't been ejected at some point (not that that's very likely
after the first few months or so). I'm not exactly sure how they get it
out when there's no string, either, although I'm sure they can since the
strings migrating up into the uterus isn't unheard of.


You would *feel* it if it expelled or perforated. It's embedded in the wall.


As far as getting it out-I made the mistake of looking at the pointy he used
to insert it, and I decided not to ask.

Jess


  #104  
Old December 22nd 05, 06:58 PM posted to misc.kids.breastfeeding
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Default Birth Control

"Cathy Weeks" wrote in message
oups.com...
Circe wrote:
"Cathy Weeks" wrote in message
oups.com...

Circe wrote:
The Copper-T (which I have) is 99.2% effective in actual use. The
Mirena
is
closer to 98% effective. (I didn't know there was that significant a
difference until I looked it up just now. I wonder why the Mirena is
so
much
less effective?)

I think you should probably trust numbers from an independent website.


Those statistics are from the FDA's site, which one would think would be
pretty independent!


LOL Fair enough! I *do* wonder how they gather their info, though.

Yeah, I'm not sure, either. After looking at that one, I checked Planned
Parenthood's site and they quoted a 0.1% failure rate for the Mirena in both
actual and "perfect" use. So I don't know where the numbers on the FDA's
site came from.
--
Be well, Barbara


  #105  
Old December 22nd 05, 07:09 PM posted to misc.kids.breastfeeding
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Default Birth Control

Cathy Weeks wrote:
What I objected to, is that it *seemed* like she had
decided he *was* going to have a vasectomy, whether he liked it or
not.


I didn't take that away from the conversation because short of clubbing him
over the head and hauling him in I'm not sure how she'd manage that :-)

To be quite honest, neither is a particularly good situation.


That is the truest statement in this thread.

So, he has to decide which is worse - occasonally getting poked, and
paying probably $1500 over the next 15 years or so to get them, or
getting a free vasectomy. And for him, the jury is pretty much out
still.


Lucky for you guys there does seem to be a few different options open to you
and while they might not be the ideal for either one of you, they are all
acceptable to both of you.

I know an awful lot of women who are squicked by having a
foreign object inserted into their uteruses, and so they dismiss it
out of hand. Why is that any different than a man being squicked by
scalpels near his testicles?


I don't know. I'm probably not thinking it through well enough. It just
seems different to have something in you for years versus a procedure that
is over in a short bit. There are quite a few things that totally squick me
out that I do because I feel they are necessary and are over in a short bit
so I put up with them. All the pregnancy stuff, pap smears, I'll need a
colonoscopy in the next few years etc. All are awful shiver. I think it
would be irresponsible of me to just dismiss them because I was squicked.
It is my duty to my family to do what I can to deliver healthy babies and
live long enough to raise them.

If that's the case - I'm not sure that his getting a V is a good idea.
Fertility depends on him, too, unless of course you are thinking ahead
to his demise. (I'm kidding - please don't take offense!) ;-)


Hee hee. We've never discussed the V. It hasn't been anything I've
interested in, nor he AFAIK. Having said that if he was 100% sure he wanted
no more kids ever and felt strongly that an accidental pregancy would be a
very bad thing, I wouldn't stop him (or try to convince him) to not get it.

I hope you don't mind my asking - but what method *did* you agree on?


Condoms. Not his favorite, nor mine really, but the best of all our choices
and we both agreed on it without any drama. We were always planning a third
pregnancy so the reliability thing wasn't huge. This pregnancy did come
about 6mos earlier then planned but they worked for us for many many years.
I'm not sure how he'll feel after this pregnancy since we get two for the
trouble :-) That is why we'll have to have a more intense discussion. We
seem to be very compatible in the fertility department as it only took one
actual time for us to conceive all three times so effectiveness is certainly
part of the equation. It will really depend on how strongly he feels that
he is done with having children.

--
Nikki
Hunter 4/99
Luke 4/01
Thing One and Thing Two :-) EDD 4/06


  #106  
Old December 22nd 05, 07:19 PM posted to misc.kids.breastfeeding
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Default Birth Control

"Cathy Weeks" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hillary Israeli wrote:
That's how mine was - the tip of the string was flush with the cervical
os. You couldn't trim it any shorter - he TRIED, but it just wasn't
possible. My poor husband said it felt like a razor poking him. It's much
better now with the length about 2 cm past the os. Neither of us is
bothered by it at all.


Hmmmm... I wonder if Chris does decide against a V, if we can find a
better length for the strings? And why couldn't the strings be removed
entirely? Like before the thing is even inserted? If there's no
string, then there's nothing to poke, right?

Of course, if there was no string at all, you wouldn't have any way to be
sure it hadn't been ejected at some point (not that that's very likely after
the first few months or so). I'm not exactly sure how they get it out when
there's no string, either, although I'm sure they can since the strings
migrating up into the uterus isn't unheard of.
--
Be well, Barbara


  #107  
Old December 22nd 05, 07:29 PM posted to misc.kids.breastfeeding
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Default Birth Control

Circe wrote:

What I think I am trying to say is that it is wrong-headed to go into
a discussion about a decision that affects both partners in unequal
ways with the idea that you can MAKE it "fair". You can't.


My views aren't really driven by 'fairness' either. Even if men had an
arsenal of birth control options open to them we are the one's who are
pregnant and that will never change...which I'm secretly kind of glad about
;-)


In a situation like the one you've just described, Sally is
responsible for what Sally chooses to do (or not do) and Bob is
responsible for what Bob chooses to do (or not to). The CONSEQUENCE
of those choices affects them both (although in different ways), but
each person can only be responsible for what he/she is responsible
for.


Yes. I'm just saying that in real life it doesn't seem that woman are given
much respect when making their decisions. I'm not saying forcing a man to
have a V is the right thing, just that his decision to refuse one seems to
be given the utmost respect regardless of the factors behind it and that
woman just need to find some method of birth control that works for them
*yet keeps their husbands happy and marriage stable*. It is just a
disparity and perhaps always will be but that doesn't mean I have to like it
;-)

Marriages in which both parties expect absolute parity on every issue
are doomed to failure. In all marriages, there are times when one
party does "more" than the other.


I think all intact marriages are living proof of that! It also depends on
what sacrifices one is willing to make for the sake of their partner,
marriage, and family.
--
Nikki
Hunter 4/99
Luke 4/01
Thing One and Thing Two :-) EDD 4/06


  #108  
Old December 22nd 05, 11:29 PM posted to misc.kids.breastfeeding
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Default Birth Control

"Jess" wrote in message
news:kDCqf.6737$NS.2524@dukeread04...

"Circe" wrote in message
news:j7Cqf.179$sA3.87@fed1read02...
Of course, if there was no string at all, you wouldn't have any way to be
sure it hadn't been ejected at some point (not that that's very likely
after the first few months or so). I'm not exactly sure how they get it
out when there's no string, either, although I'm sure they can since the
strings migrating up into the uterus isn't unheard of.


You would *feel* it if it expelled or perforated. It's embedded in the
wall.

I'm not 100% sure that's true. A fair number of IUD pregnancies apparently
occur because the device was expelled without the wearer's knowledge.

Also, I don't believe that the IUD is supposed to be embedded in the uterine
except in the case of one brand (called the Gynefix, which I've never heard
of before). An IUD that has accidentally become embedded in the wall is
actually cited as a common reason for problems with removal.

As far as getting it out-I made the mistake of looking at the pointy he
used to insert it, and I decided not to ask.

LOL.
--
Be well, Barbara


  #109  
Old December 23rd 05, 01:56 AM posted to misc.kids.breastfeeding
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Posts: n/a
Default Birth Control

In ltCqf.6734$NS.3243@dukeread04,
Jess wrote:

*
*"Cathy Weeks" wrote in message
roups.com...
* Hmmmm... I wonder if Chris does decide against a V, if we can find a
* better length for the strings? And why couldn't the strings be removed
* entirely? Like before the thing is even inserted? If there's no
* string, then there's nothing to poke, right?
*
*My doc left the strings long for the first month because if I did a partial
*expulsion or it tried to perforate, he figured having the strings there
*would be better than not. Once that first month passed, he snipped 'em all
*the way down.

"all the way down" to where? Surely he couldn't have trimmed them so that
they were shorter than flush with the opening of the cervix, unless he
dilated your cervix? Because you can't open scissors inside the cervical
canal really. Oh ouch it hurts to think of it...

--
Hillary Israeli, VMD
Lafayette Hill/PA/USA/Earth
"Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it is
too dark to read." --Groucho Marx



  #110  
Old December 23rd 05, 02:03 AM posted to misc.kids.breastfeeding
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Default Birth Control


Amy wrote:

Hell, if reversals were easier, I'd have him get one now, and we could
reverse it when it's time for the spare. I kind of wish they could
install a little faucet on 'em, so if we want the swimmers on, they're
on, and if we want 'em off, they're off. Hot and cold running sperm.
Hahhaa...

You mean they should install a stopcock? ;-)

--Helen

 




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