The Debate on Spanking is Dead.

Was it reasonable to start a discussion thread
by titling it "The Debate on Spanking is Dead" ?

kidman - 14 Jul 2007 15:21 GMT
Greg, you don't sound like a happy camper
and I'm sorry about your anger issue.

If a CPS caseworker created a fictional ""Sex Abuse History""
about YOU, in order to tear up your family, how
irate do you think you would be?
Can you tell "constructive anger" from true rage?

Jim wrote
Did you know that anger can render you incapable
of reasonable and/or rational thought?

And I see you have pointed out instances of irrationality! (sic)

Jim wrote
I'm afraid that by appearing as an on-the-edge, mean-
spirited individual on a basis of vindictiveness might leave
others with the impression that you're emotionally stunted
and mentally unstable.

You actually think it's vindictive when somebody
directly challenges your liberal dogma?

Did you forget your own comments about conservatives
and Fundamentalist Christians?
Was that cathartic or vindictive on your part?

This certainly doesn't help in your efforts to
gain retribution against child protection agencies.

Retribution? Challenging the sappy sacharine
"social work mentality" online?

Have you considered professional help?

Civil Rights attorney.

It might help alleviate your miserable disposition.

The jury award will probably fix that.


On Jul 14, 10:05 am, "kidman via FamilyKB.com" u35676@uwe wrote:
Greg, was that supposed to be a rebuttal to my remarks? I'll let your
response stand on it's own merits.

You keep harping on credentials when you already
know they mean nothing on boards such as this.

Then why are you an e-zine ""expert""?

But, I'll tell you what. Considering that you present
yourself as an expert in the field of Social Work,

Where did I present myself as any such thing?

After CPS tore into our family we were amazed that
neither the caseworkers nor the contract ""Social Workers""
actually are state licensed Social Workers.
Early on we saw a "Tricks of the Trade" list and
thought it could not be true. Item by item we
found out that they actually USED most of the
bizarre tactics on us.
"The emperor is wearing no clothes".

Did you honestly think that only insiders have
a right to criticize the system?

I'll be more than glad to
compare my credentials with yours. You go first.

I have never claimed myself to be an expert.
Did you see me writing for an e-zine as an ""expert"" or
posting my Curriculum Vitae/Resume or ""BIO"" on the
web to claim credentials.

BTW, I'm not at all surprised to find that you're
just one more pro-spanking devotee in Denial.

You seem bitter.
Get used to it, you are in a severe minority.
Really odd considering the world is so jam packed with
information that proves your political agenda.

You DID have a run-in with a child protection agency, did you not?
Did you have a child placed as a result of your abusive treatment? I
don't know how else to explain the apparent level of rage
you display on this board.

Your clone Kane whose been here for ages has actually
bragged about posting gratuitous obscenity, (epithets etc.)
for over a year. I recently created a thread just to
assess who uses one particular abbreviation for an obscene
epithet. Amazingly the people who have posted that sort
of comment and obscenity are the "system sucks" and
only rarely somebody on the Family Rights or Parents Rights side.

You should really search the alt.support.child-protective-services
newsgroup for swear words, then you can talk to me about
the "level of rage" I display in this newsgroup.

Do you intend to evade all of the questions I asked of you?





James C Talbot wrote
I feel it's important to make it very clearly known

Greg wrote You have an agenda.

Jim wrote
to any and all concerned,
that the debate on spanking within the scientific and academic communities is
dead, and has been for a number of years now.

G Herein read: You declare it so and don't want to debate.

J The most substantial indicator
of this development is evidenced by the fact that virtually every
professional organization in the U.S. and Canada concerned with the care and
treatment of children, has taken a public stance against the practice of
spanking*.

G It goes with the predominantly kook left political demographics
too.
G So what?

Based on the overwhelming accumulation of research conducted over the past
50+ years linking spanking to a number of risk factors, the professional
consensus against this practice has grown to world-wide proportions...

The "Social Worker mentality" was exported as part of the crusade.
So?

even to
the extent that, in an effort to reduce rates of Child Abuse, Sweden, Finland,
Austria, Norway, Croatia, Denmark, Hungary, Israel, Cyprus, Netherlands,
Bulgaria, Germany, Latvia, Iceland, Romania, Greece, New Zealand, and Ukraine
have legislated total bans on spanking.... with Italy, South Africa, Scotland,
Canada, and Ireland apparently in the process of following suit.

G Nope.
G And neither has any of the 50 United States.

It should
also be noted that every industrialized country in the world has banned
spanking in schools.

G But in a few US states while a kid CAN be paddled in school,
G the use of the very same paddle at home would be a crime.

The evidence is in, and the evidence has found against
the practice of spanking in a compellingly conclusive manner.

G Propaganda from the Berkeley kook Left.

Just as one might find supportive views toward spanking being promoted
(typically) on web sites sponsored by fundamentalist Christian sects, so can
one find supportive views promoting Homophobia, Racism, Misogyny, and other
'hate group' propaganda.

Whereas Child Protective service agencies have gotten slapped
for hiring pedophiles, child molesters and child abusers.
""Social Worker"" Geoffrey Rantz was quietly ejected from Iowa after
some molestation incidents (for PR reasons!), but got
a job as a child protection caseworker in Colorado Springs CO.

Because of the fact that the actual agendas of these
sites are often deceptively disguised by organizational titles such as,
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
figures' that can prove to represent nothing more than religious, political,
or philosophical attempts to spread self-serving misinformation.

Whereas the Child Protection INDUSTRY in the US is so noble
that all the workers, supervisors, and many spinoff contractors
do it all for free!

Having spent 30+ years examining/evaluating the research on this issue of
spanking children, I am able to state with a high degree of confidence

Herein read: 30 years of being a left wing kook ACTIVIST...
What are your actual CREDENTIALS ""Jim C Talbot"" ?

J that there has never been a peer-reviewed

G Politically inbred.
G Peer review is NOT all that it's cracked up to be.

J study that has been able to establish the efficacy of
J spanking as a means of long-term behavior modification;
J as an effective teaching modality;

Did it work on Abe Lincoln, Andrew Jackson, Neil Armstrong?
You pretend that spanking has no track record of working.
What about just the first 200 years the USA existed?

as an effective punishment; or as a means of
instilling self-discipline. Nor has there been research findings produced
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
the onset of dependence on external controls; or a proclivity toward
authority-directed behavior.

Except you WANT people to respect the authority of a Social Worker,
right?
Cute.

Moreover, there has never been research data
produced that spanking carries no risk to the quality of the parent-child
relationship (and I should add that conservative editorial reviews of
previous research findings do not constitute actual research, as is sometimes
claimed to be the case).

Hey, You don't like CONSERVATIVES do you? Who'da guessed?
Only your Berkeleyesque kook left research is valid, right?

Nevertheless, there are some spankers who will find reasons to dismiss,
ignore, or discount, the research findings of field conducted experimental
studies related to the Social Sciences.

Academia and the REAL WORLD are NOT the same in many arenas!
Grow up and climb out of your "Ivory Tower" you idealogue!

Well, it's especially these folks
that I'd like to address concerning alarming new research findings which
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
of sample homogeneity, they incorporated subjects who had been categorized as
'abused' children for their study, common sense tells us that

Kook left propaganda tells you

this does not
eliminate the possibility of a lesser degree of brain damage occurring to
spanked children

In other words, the linkage is questionable! But YOU BELIEVE!

who are subjected to a lesser degree of non-injurious
violence. In other words, it would be ludicrous to assume that a child must
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]

As far as I'm concerned,

How do you earn your living and what are your actual credentials?
Can they be verified?

How far are you concerned if your JOB depends on this hysteria?

this new area of research (apparently not yet
available on the internet)

They used SLOW electrons?

represents the most compelling, undeniable reason

Not available, yet undeniable? Are you forming a CULT?

that's yet been discovered to persuade parents to stop (or never start)
striking their children as a punitive measure. And I hope any pro-spankers
reading this feel the same way. It's difficult to imagine any parent who
would be willing to treat their child in a way that might carry even a remote
risk of causing a measure of brain damage to their child.

In your case maybe a swat on your butt caused brain damage.

But, in spite of having said all of that, we actually shouldn't need research
to end the practice of striking children any more than we needed research to
end the practice of striking wives. As a society, there was no need for
research findings to convince us of the harmful effects associated with the
practice of wives being physically punished.

No need for research finding to BELIEVE YOU? ARE you forming a
cult?

Instead, when we reached the point of being no longer willing to grant social
tolerance to the tradition of husbands physically disciplining their wives,
[quoted text clipped - 41 lines]

James C. Talbot

What exact sort of Socialist Utopia (Harmonious) are you after Jim?

OORAH!

On Jul 14, 11:54 pm, Greegor wrote:
Was it reasonable to start a discussion thread
by titling it "The Debate on Spanking is Dead" ?

kidman - 14 Jul 2007 15:21 GMT
Greg, you don't sound like a happy camper
and I'm sorry about your anger issue.

If a CPS caseworker created a fictional ""Sex Abuse History""
about YOU, in order to tear up your family, how
irate do you think you would be?
Can you tell "constructive anger" from true rage?

Which do you have, Greg?

And it hasn't subsided in more than six years?

Seems like you have a profound problem no matter which one it is.

Jim wrote

Did you know that anger can render you incapable
of reasonable and/or rational thought?

And I see you have pointed out instances of irrationality! (sic)

Jim wrote

I'm afraid that by appearing as an on-the-edge, mean-
spirited individual on a basis of vindictiveness might leave
others with the impression that you're emotionally stunted
and mentally unstable.

You actually think it's vindictive when somebody
directly challenges your liberal dogma?

Did you forget your own comments about conservatives
and Fundamentalist Christians?
Was that cathartic or vindictive on your part?

This certainly doesn't help in your efforts to
gain retribution against child protection agencies.

Retribution? Challenging the sappy sacharine
"social work mentality" online?

Have you considered professional help?

Civil Rights attorney.

BWAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!

It might help alleviate your miserable disposition.

The jury award will probably fix that.

Dream on, dipstick!

On Jul 14, 10:05 am, "kidman via FamilyKB.com" u35676@uwe wrote:

Greg, was that supposed to be a rebuttal to my remarks? I'll let your
response stand on it's own merits.

You keep harping on credentials when you already
know they mean nothing on boards such as this.

Then why are you an e-zine ""expert""?

But, I'll tell you what. Considering that you present
yourself as an expert in the field of Social Work,

Where did I present myself as any such thing?

After CPS tore into our family we were amazed that
neither the caseworkers nor the contract ""Social Workers""
actually are state licensed Social Workers.
Early on we saw a "Tricks of the Trade" list and
thought it could not be true. Item by item we
found out that they actually USED most of the
bizarre tactics on us.
"The emperor is wearing no clothes".

Did you honestly think that only insiders have
a right to criticize the system?

I'll be more than glad to
compare my credentials with yours. You go first.

I have never claimed myself to be an expert.
Did you see me writing for an e-zine as an ""expert"" or
posting my Curriculum Vitae/Resume or ""BIO"" on the
web to claim credentials.

BTW, I'm not at all surprised to find that you're
just one more pro-spanking devotee in Denial.

You seem bitter.
Get used to it, you are in a severe minority.
Really odd considering the world is so jam packed with
information that proves your political agenda.

Really?

You DID have a run-in with a child protection agency, did you not?
Did you have a child placed as a result of your abusive treatment? I
don't know how else to explain the apparent level of rage
you display on this board.

Your clone Kane whose been here for ages has actually
bragged about posting gratuitous obscenity, (epithets etc.)
for over a year.

BFD.

I recently created a thread just to
assess who uses one particular abbreviation for an obscene
epithet.

oooOOOooo!

And it isn't monumentally more obscene that your former girlfriend's
daughter was removed from her custody six plus years ago because of
what you were doing to her, Greg?

If you know so much about CPS and their weaknesses why hasn't the
mother gotten her daughter back yet?

Amazingly the people who have posted that sort
of comment and obscenity are the "system sucks" and
only rarely somebody on the Family Rights or Parents Rights side.

You should really search the alt.support.child-protective-services
newsgroup for swear words, then you can talk to me about
the "level of rage" I display in this newsgroup.

Swear word are so relevant.

Do you intend to evade all of the questions I asked of you?

Asked Greg, the KING of evading questions.

On Jul 14, 3:34 pm, Greegor wrote:
On Jul 14, 9:42 am, firemonkey wrote:

On Jul 14, 9:12 am, Greegor wrote:

Firemonkey wrote

Thank God you have no children to spank.

And you know this how exactly?

I know a lot about you greg, in fact, I am thinking about posting some
of that info here and other place a bit at a time until you leave my
computer alone.

Firemonkey somebody is sending you fake pings.
They're faking the IP address on them.
Look to your so-called allies.

You're either getting fake pings or else you're making it up.

Why are you so interested in port 24202 ?

I'm not. I blocked your address weeks ago.

I googled it for you. (I know that's hard for you.)

SuSE Linux Forums SSH hack attemptsMay 16 02:19:33 meridian
sshd[24202]: Failed password for mysql from ::ffff:62.138.234.27 port
18547 ssh2 May 16 02:19:34 meridian sshd[24204]: Failed ...
forums.suselinuxsupport.de/lofiversion/index.php/t17475.html - 29k -
Cached - Similar pages

And does this number mear anything to you? 401

Is this some of the information you PAID for Firemonkey?
ROFL

I'm listed in the phone book, and electronic ones online also.
Didn't Ron help you access an online phone book?

What is said between me and anyone else in this group, other than
postings,
is none of your ****ing business, jackass.

I thought you said your ex the cop was all worked up
and anxious to defend your attacks on me...

You came after me because I thanked and praised Dan, what he's doing
and how well he does it. Thats it, your low self-esteem and tremendous
ego were so shattered you HAD to come after me, didn't you little boy?
You want to be Dan or Kane. You see the respect they have EARNED for
their kindness and intelligence and you want it. I caught a line off
television this morning, it fits....
"Its a great shoe, but it doesn't come in your size."

But you can't work an online phone book and need to pay for
information?

Keep wondering, maybe we all ARE plotting against you.

Firemonkey

On Jul 15, 5:58 pm, firemonkey wrote:
On Jul 14, 3:34 pm, Greegor wrote:





On Jul 14, 9:42 am, firemonkey wrote:

On Jul 14, 9:12 am, Greegor wrote:

Firemonkey wrote

Thank God you have no children to spank.

And you know this how exactly?

I know a lot about you greg, in fact, I am thinking about posting some
of that info here and other place a bit at a time until you leave my
computer alone.

Firemonkey somebody is sending you fake pings.
They're faking the IP address on them.
Look to your so-called allies.

You're either getting fake pings or else you're making it up.

Why are you so interested in port 24202 ?

I'm not. I blocked your address weeks ago.

I googled it for you. (I know that's hard for you.)

SuSE Linux Forums SSH hack attemptsMay 16 02:19:33 meridian
sshd[24202]: Failed password for mysql from ::ffff:62.138.234.27 port
18547 ssh2 May 16 02:19:34 meridian sshd[24204]: Failed ...
forums.suselinuxsupport.de/lofiversion/index.php/t17475.html - 29k -
Cached - Similar pages

And does this number mear anything to you? 401

Is this some of the information you PAID for Firemonkey?
ROFL

I'm listed in the phone book, and electronic ones online also.
Didn't Ron help you access an online phone book?

What is said between me and anyone else in this group, other than
postings,
is none of your ****ing business, jackass.

I thought you said your ex the cop was all worked up
and anxious to defend your attacks on me...

You came after me because I thanked and praised Dan, what he's doing
and how well he does it. Thats it, your low self-esteem and tremendous
ego were so shattered you HAD to come after me, didn't you little boy?
You want to be Dan or Kane. You see the respect they have EARNED for
their kindness and intelligence and you want it. I caught a line off
television this morning, it fits....
"Its a great shoe, but it doesn't come in your size."

But you can't work an online phone book and need to pay for
information?

Keep wondering, maybe we all ARE plotting against you.

Along with CPS, the Courts in Iowa, Lisa's parents, the guy across the
street, his friend the cop... I must be missing dozens of people.

Firemonkey- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Firemonkey wrote
Thank God you have no children to spank.

Greg wrote
And you know this how exactly?

Firemonkey wrote
I know a lot about you greg, in fact, I am thinking about posting some
of that info here and other place a bit at a time until you leave my
computer alone.

Greg wrote
Firemonkey somebody is sending you fake pings.
They're faking the IP address on them.
Look to your so-called allies.
You're either getting fake pings or else you're making it up.

Firemonkey wrote
Why are you so interested in port 24202 ?

Greg wrote
I'm not. I blocked your address weeks ago.
I googled it for you. (I know that's hard for you.)

SuSE Linux Forums SSH hack attemptsMay 16 02:19:33 meridian
sshd[24202]:

Firemonkey, which of your ""FRIENDS"" is
big on using LInux instead of Windows?
Fake IP, fake ID, On his ""special"" computer?

F And does this number mear anything to you? 401

Greg wrote
Is this some of the information you PAID for Firemonkey?
ROFL
I'm listed in the phone book, and electronic ones online also.
Didn't Ron help you access an online phone book?

F What is said between me and anyone else
F in this group, other than postings, is none
F of your [f'ing] business, jackass.

Firemonkey, you MADE IT my business, threatening
me with harassment using ""information"" and then you
SWEAR OPENLY because I saw through your game?

LOL

G I thought you said your ex the cop was all worked
G up and anxious to defend your attacks on me...

Firemonkey wrote
You came after me because I thanked and praised Dan, what he's doing
and how well he does it. Thats it, your low self-esteem and tremendous
ego were so shattered you HAD to come after me, didn't you little boy?
You want to be Dan or Kane.

Why would I want to be a system suck?

They are the ones who posed as Family Rights people
so they could "infiltrate" family rights groups.

So just who is envious of whom, Firemonkey?

F You see the respect they have EARNED for
F their kindness and intelligence and you want it.

Kicked out of Family Rights groups?
Using internet tricks and fake ID?
Using ANONYMOUS internet identies as ""references""?

F I caught a line off television this morning, it fits....
F "Its a great shoe, but it doesn't come in your size."

G But you can't work an online phone
G book and need to pay for information?

Firemonkey wrote
Keep wondering, maybe we all ARE plotting against you.

You're so neurotic your own cronies are taking advantage
of that by sending you fake pings just to fire you up!

With friends like that, who needs enemies?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dan And it hasn't subsided in more than six years?
Dan Seems like you have a profound problem no matter which one it
is.

Problem being?

G Your clone Kane whose been here for ages
G has actually bragged about posting gratuitous
G obscenity, (epithets etc.) for over a year.

Dan BFD.

Dan, Does Jim know you had FIFTEEN run ins with CPS?
Soes he know you had FIVE foundeds that you reversed?
Does he know you regularly display your rage with "GFYS"?
Jim lives in a harmonious "Romper Room" world, remember.

Dan Swear word are so relevant.

When discussing "level of rage"? Of course.

Greg asked James C. Talbot AKA "KIDMAN"
Do you intend to evade all of the questions I asked of you?

Dan Asked Greg, the KING of evading questions.

Dan, what profession are you employed in?

On Jul 14, 4:12 pm, Greegor wrote:
Firemonkey wrote

Thank God you have no children to spank.

And you know this how exactly?

Hi I'm new to this page. I have two daughters. 8 and 11. The 11 yr old
is not very confident. She is also a bit of a calamity jane. She is
loving etc. but has difficulty asserting herself.

How can I as the father help my daughter to become more self-assured,
more assertive, etc.?

Please let me have your thoughts. If this is the wrong place for this
type of request then please advise me.

Thanks.

On Jul 15, 7:26 pm, Greegor wrote:
Firemonkey wrote

Thank God you have no children to spank.

Greg wrote

And you know this how exactly?

Firemonkey wrote

I know a lot about you greg, in fact, I am thinking about posting some
of that info here and other place a bit at a time until you leave my
computer alone.

Greg wrote

Firemonkey somebody is sending you fake pings.
They're faking the IP address on them.
Look to your so-called allies.
You're either getting fake pings or else you're making it up.


No Greg, you have been doing it, you and your little friends.
My friends here aren't the problem. You are.

Firemonkey wrote

Why are you so interested in port 24202 ?

Greg wrote

I'm not. I blocked your address weeks ago.
I googled it for you. (I know that's hard for you.)

SuSE Linux Forums SSH hack attemptsMay 16 02:19:33 meridian
sshd[24202]:

Firemonkey, which of your ""FRIENDS"" is
big on using LInux instead of Windows?
Fake IP, fake ID, On his ""special"" computer?

Right. Do not waste your time giving me advise, like I'd take it after
you have given me two trojans.

F And does this number mear anything to you? 401

Greg wrote

Is this some of the information you PAID for Firemonkey?
ROFL
I'm listed in the phone book, and electronic ones online also.
Didn't Ron help you access an online phone book?

F What is said between me and anyone else
F in this group, other than postings, is none
F of your [f'ing] business, jackass.

Firemonkey, you MADE IT my business, threatening
me with harassment using ""information"" and then you
SWEAR OPENLY because I saw through your game?

No gregie, you made it my business when you followed Bob into fightcps
to attack Dan, You came after me because I made it clear Dan had given
advise that helped me get 3 children back to their parents. You
accused me of being Kane, of being a case worked, a lesbian and on and
on. You went looking for information on me and found that I was a
poster at an group for autism, You brought that information here and
tried to ridicule me. You disrespected my daughter privacy. Your
behavior concerning that made a lot of people very angry.
You tricked me into clicking on a link that put DyFuKa trojan on my
computer, YOUR POST. You also put Pushu trojan on my computer. You are
nothing but a molester of little girls and a wife beater. A criminal,
a punk. You are the system suck gregie, you don't work, you want to
sue the state, you choose weak women with kids for girlfriends/ wives
to live and feed off of.
Don't lie to the readers, you brought whatever comes onto yourself.

Do not fret about me doing anything illegal, your not worth it. My
only weapon against you is the truth you little turd.

You would do well to know who your messing with before you mess with
them. So go ahead and do what you do, just know people are watching
you very closely.

Firemonkey, LOL

LOL

G I thought you said your ex the cop was all worked
G up and anxious to defend your attacks on me...

Firemonkey wrote

You came after me because I thanked and praised Dan, what he's doing
and how well he does it. Thats it, your low self-esteem and tremendous
ego were so shattered you HAD to come after me, didn't you little boy?
You want to be Dan or Kane.

Why would I want to be a system suck?

They are the ones who posed as Family Rights people
so they could "infiltrate" family rights groups.

So just who is envious of whom, Firemonkey?

F You see the respect they have EARNED for
F their kindness and intelligence and you want it.

Kicked out of Family Rights groups?
Using internet tricks and fake ID?
Using ANONYMOUS internet identies as ""references""?

F I caught a line off television this morning, it fits....
F "Its a great shoe, but it doesn't come in your size."

G But you can't work an online phone
G book and need to pay for information?

Firemonkey wrote

Keep wondering, maybe we all ARE plotting against you.

You're so neurotic your own cronies are taking advantage
of that by sending you fake pings just to fire you up!

With friends like that, who needs enemies?

Dan's advice helped me do something you have not been able to do for 6
years.
I am thankful for my "FRIENDS", they have helped me help others far
more than you will ever realize. Furthermore, my "FRIENDS" have my
personal information, we email each other, they have photos of my
family. If they wanted to mess with me they surely would not have to
sit at their computers and ping me 1000's times per day. Its a pity
you cannot see how different than you they are, you could learm so
much from them. I do every day.



Dan And it hasn't subsided in more than six years?
Dan Seems like you have a profound problem no matter which one it
is.

Problem being?

G Your clone Kane whose been here for ages
G has actually bragged about posting gratuitous
G obscenity, (epithets etc.) for over a year.

Dan BFD.

Dan, Does Jim know you had FIFTEEN run ins with CPS?
Soes he know you had FIVE foundeds that you reversed?
Does he know you regularly display your rage with "GFYS"?
Jim lives in a harmonious "Romper Room" world, remember.

Dan Swear word are so relevant.

When discussing "level of rage"? Of course.

Greg asked James C. Talbot AKA "KIDMAN"

Do you intend to evade all of the questions I asked of you?

Dan Asked Greg, the KING of evading questions.

Dan, what profession are you employed in?

kidman wrote:
I feel it’s important to make it very clearly known to any and all concerned,
that the debate on spanking within the scientific and academic communities is
dead, and has been for a number of years now. The most substantial indicator
of this development is evidenced by the fact that virtually every
professional organization in the U.S. and Canada concerned with the care and
treatment of children, has taken a public stance against the practice of
spanking*.

Based on the overwhelming accumulation of research conducted over the past
50+ years linking spanking to a number of risk factors, the professional
consensus against this practice has grown to world-wide proportions...even to
the extent that, in an effort to reduce rates of Child Abuse, Sweden, Finland,
Austria, Norway, Croatia, Denmark, Hungary, Israel, Cyprus, Netherlands,
Bulgaria, Germany, Latvia, Iceland, Romania, Greece, New Zealand, and Ukraine
have legislated total bans on spanking.... with Italy, South Africa, Scotland,
Canada, and Ireland apparently in the process of following suit. It should
also be noted that every industrialized country in the world has banned
spanking in schools. The evidence is in, and the evidence has found against
the practice of spanking in a compellingly conclusive manner.

Just as one might find supportive views toward spanking being promoted
(typically) on web sites sponsored by fundamentalist Christian sects, so can
one find supportive views promoting Homophobia, Racism, Misogyny, and other
‘hate group’ propaganda. Because of the fact that the actual agendas of these
sites are often deceptively disguised by organizational titles such as,
‘Family Council’, ‘People’s Choice’, ‘Rights and Freedoms’, etc., people are
forced to exercise a highly judicious discernment of the information being
made available on the Internet. Some web surfers have had to learn the hard
way that the Internet abounds with persuasive presentations of ‘facts and
figures’ that can prove to represent nothing more than religious, political,
or philosophical attempts to spread self-serving misinformation.

Having spent 30+ years examining/evaluating the research on this issue of
spanking children, I am able to state with a high degree of confidence that
there has never been a peer-reviewed study that has been able to establish
the efficacy of spanking as a means of long-term behavior modification; as an
effective teaching modality; as an effective punishment; or as a means of
instilling self-discipline. Nor has there been research findings produced
that have served to refute previous research showing spanking to be
associated with a risk for undesirable emotional consequences; a risk for
physical injury; a risk of counter-productive behavioral outcomes; a risk for
the onset of dependence on external controls; or a proclivity toward
authority-directed behavior. Moreover, there has never been research data
produced that spanking carries no risk to the quality of the parent-child
relationship (and I should add that conservative editorial reviews of
previous research findings do not constitute actual research, as is sometimes
claimed to be the case).

Nevertheless, there are some spankers who will find reasons to dismiss,
ignore, or discount, the research findings of field conducted experimental
studies related to the Social Sciences. Well, it’s especially these folks
that I’d like to address concerning alarming new research findings which
represent the most severe consequences of physical punishment yet discovered..
.while doing so in the form of documented scientific proof*.

These revelations have come through studies in brain research having provided
CAT SCAN pictures showing an abnormal lack of brain development (within the
portion of the brain responsible for emotional functioning) in children who
had been subject to spankings as a punitive measure. Although, for the sake
of sample homogeneity, they incorporated subjects who had been categorized as
‘abused’ children for their study, common sense tells us that this does not
eliminate the possibility of a lesser degree of brain damage occurring to
spanked children who are subjected to a lesser degree of non-injurious
violence. In other words, it would be ludicrous to assume that a child must
first suffer bruises, cuts, or welts (or other injuries), before brain damage
can take place as a result of the physical punishments. Rather, it is much
more logical to deduce that acts of physical aggression toward young children
can disrupt, or prevent, the optimal conditions necessary to facilitate a
normal process of healthy brain development.

As far as I’m concerned, this new area of research (apparently not yet
available on the internet) represents the most compelling, undeniable reason
that’s yet been discovered to persuade parents to stop (or never start)
striking their children as a punitive measure. And I hope any pro-spankers
reading this feel the same way. It’s difficult to imagine any parent who
would be willing to treat their child in a way that might carry even a remote
risk of causing a measure of brain damage to their child.

But, in spite of having said all of that, we actually shouldn’t need research
to end the practice of striking children any more than we needed research to
end the practice of striking wives. As a society, there was no need for
research findings to convince us of the harmful effects associated with the
practice of wives being physically punished.

Instead, when we reached the point of being no longer willing to grant social
tolerance to the tradition of husbands physically disciplining their wives,
our decision to do so was based on our having progressed socially into the
higher morality of a greater humanity. Perhaps, our next step ahead in
forward progress should come by way of reaching a decision to begin
recognizing children as also being deserving of those same protections.

No longer do we see any adult members of our society remaining outside the
jurisdiction of the protective laws once enjoyed by only the more privileged
and ‘deserving’ (namely white males), regardless of race, gender, religion,
ethnic group, or sexual orientation. None of our adult citizens remains
legally unprotected from being violated by harassment, threats, defamation,
discrimination, or being victimized by violence to any degree or form. So,
given our heritage of bestowing a greater humanity upon those of a lower
social status by welcoming them as our equals in the eyes of the law (in
terms of violent treatment), would it be so out of character for us to also
shelter the younger, weaker of our members by allowing them to join those of
us already sharing in the security and comfort of safety that’s provided
under the umbrella of legal protections from violence?

Bringing our little ones into the fold really doesn’t seem all that
magnanimous if we keep in mind that we’ve already been willing to share the
shelter of our umbrella of Assault laws with even the most vicious of
hardened adult criminals. After all, children are the very last segment of
our shared human collective who still remain as fair game for being subjected
to acts of physical aggression. We display a strange sense of priorities when
we don’t allow the prison guard to break-out a paddle and start whacking away
on the disobedient buttocks of a sociopathic death-row inmate who kills for
the rush it gives him, yet we find helpless, defenseless young children as
deserving of such treatment.

Fact is, we define corporal punishments of prison inmates as ‘Cruel and
Unusual Punishment’, ‘Guard Brutality’, or ‘Aggravated Assault’. And should
the physical punishments be repeated as a routine punitive measure, such a
treatment of prisoners would fall under the definition of ‘Torture’.

Why would a murderous inmate be less subject to physical discipline than a
helpless 3-year-old child?

Logically, morally, humanely, and scientifically, the debate on spanking is
dead...save for those who would object to continuing social progress.

James C. Talbot

Hi James (aka kidman),
I am interested in the research you mentioned above. Can you point me to

where I can read them.

Thanks,

AFfromDreamLand

On Jul 16, 9:32 am, firemonkey wrote:
On Jul 15, 7:26 pm, Greegor wrote:

Firemonkey wrote

Thank God you have no children to spank.

Greg wrote

And you know this how exactly?

Firemonkey wrote

I know a lot about you greg, in fact, I am thinking about posting some
of that info here and other place a bit at a time until you leave my
computer alone.

Greg wrote

Firemonkey somebody is sending you fake pings.
They're faking the IP address on them.
Look to your so-called allies.
You're either getting fake pings or else you're making it up.

No Greg, you have been doing it, you and your little friends.
My friends here aren't the problem. You are.

Firemonkey wrote

Why are you so interested in port 24202 ?

Greg wrote

I'm not. I blocked your address weeks ago.
I googled it for you. (I know that's hard for you.)

SuSE Linux Forums SSH hack attemptsMay 16 02:19:33 meridian
sshd[24202]:

Firemonkey, which of your ""FRIENDS"" is
big on using LInux instead of Windows?
Fake IP, fake ID, On his ""special"" computer?

Right. Do not waste your time giving me advise, like I'd take it after
you have given me two trojans.

And yet while you are so very certain of that you have not
filed any legal action?

That's strange, particularly if you're in SouthEast Iowa.

F And does this number mear anything to you? 401

Greg wrote

Is this some of the information you PAID for Firemonkey?
ROFL
I'm listed in the phone book, and electronic ones online also.
Didn't Ron help you access an online phone book?

F What is said between me and anyone else
F in this group, other than postings, is none
F of your [f'ing] business, jackass.

Firemonkey, you MADE IT my business, threatening
me with harassment using ""information"" and then you
SWEAR OPENLY because I saw through your game?

No gregie, you made it my business when you followed Bob into fightcps
to attack Dan,

Huh?
I was not even IN that web group for about a year and during
that time Dan posted my family's pleadings trying to ridicule me.
He thought everybody was going to laugh at it.
Sadly for Dan, he didn't get the sort of response from
the other people there, that he wanted.
But the point here is that Dan was the attacker.

When Bob started talking about his Constitutional Defense,
Dan began his attack Bob and his suggestions.

When I rejoined that group, there were lots of people
who already had some considerable concerns about Dan.

Dan and Bob went at it and they were both ejected.

You made bitter comments blaming me, in there and in
the newsgroups.

I STILL suspect you may be Kane in drag, and the only
evidence contrary to that is from your own anonymous hyena pack.

You came after me because I made it clear Dan had given
advise that helped me get 3 children back to their parents. You
accused me of being Kane, of being a case worked, a
lesbian and on and on.

When you're anonymous, if it walks like a duck....

You went looking for information on me and found that I was a
poster at an group for autism, You brought that information here and
tried to ridicule me. You disrespected my daughter privacy.

I did not post her name or your address.
I pointed out that a person who is EXTREMELY DEPENDENT
on social services might think social services people are angels.

Your behavior concerning that made a lot of people very angry.

Your hyena pack? What's new about that?

You tricked me into clicking on a link that put
DyFuKa trojan on my computer, YOUR POST.

Is that the really OLD virus that reports back
to somebody on a Canadian Cable internet IP?

You're a moron and in 2007 you were surfing the net
on a computer withOUT security updates, without antivirus
software, without spyware or firewall.

You have never stated just HOW I infected your
computer with this one by way of newsgroup text.
Or how it is that Kym Olson got it also.

You also put Pushu trojan on my computer.

Your claim is that I posted a link to a photo on somebody
else's web site (like photobucket) and that the photo had
a JPEG virus.

Never mind that you STILL had no normal internet security.
No Windows security updates, no antivirus software,
without spyware or firewall.

Nothing people normally do when surfing the internet.

Never mind that the Pushu one is linked to the
use of PORNO sites.

But Wait! There's more!

Once you actually got a firewall on your computer,
and saw how many pings you got from all around
the world, suddenly you complained that you were
getting pings from me.

I had not done such a thing, so I did the routine
security updates, scans, defrag, etc.

I blocked your port and told you so.

You continued to make the complaint.

Either you were lying or getting pings with a faked IP.

One clue was when you got the same pings
through the time when my dynamic IP had changed!

I tend to believe you are Kane in drag.

You are nothing but a molester of little girls
and a wife beater. A criminal, a punk. You
are the system suck gregie, you don't work,
you want to sue the state, you choose weak
women with kids for girlfriends/ wives to live
and feed off of. Don't lie to the readers, you
brought whatever comes onto yourself.

Do not fret about me doing anything illegal,
your not worth it. My only weapon against
you is the truth you little turd.

You mean the phone book?

You would do well to know who your messing
with before you mess with them.

That's why you hide behind anonymity, right?
Make threats about using your ex the cop?
Make bogus threats of legal action?
(Golly, who ELSE do I know who tried that at least 3 times?)

So go ahead and do what you do, just
know people are watching you very closely.

Firemonkey, LOL

I still think you are Kane in drag.

Did you think the sock attacks would distract
from your apparent ""difficulties"" recently Donald?



LOL

G I thought you said your ex the cop was all worked
G up and anxious to defend your attacks on me...

Firemonkey wrote

You came after me because I thanked and praised Dan, what he's doing
and how well he does it. Thats it, your low self-esteem and tremendous
ego were so shattered you HAD to come after me, didn't you little boy?
You want to be Dan or Kane.

Why would I want to be a system suck?

They are the ones who posed as Family Rights people
so they could "infiltrate" family rights groups.

So just who is envious of whom, Firemonkey?

F You see the respect they have EARNED for
F their kindness and intelligence and you want it.

Kicked out of Family Rights groups?
Using internet tricks and fake ID?
Using ANONYMOUS internet identies as ""references""?

F I caught a line off television this morning, it fits....
F "Its a great shoe, but it doesn't come in your size."

G But you can't work an online phone
G book and need to pay for information?

Firemonkey wrote

Keep wondering, maybe we all ARE plotting against you.

You're so neurotic your own cronies are taking advantage
of that by sending you fake pings just to fire you up!

With friends like that, who needs enemies?

Dan's advice helped me do something you have not been able to do for 6
years.
I am thankful for my "FRIENDS", they have helped me help others far
more than you will ever realize. Furthermore, my "FRIENDS" have my
personal information, we email each other, they have photos of my
family. If they wanted to mess with me they surely would not have to
sit at their computers and ping me 1000's times per day. Its a pity
you cannot see how different than you they are, you could learm so
much from them. I do every day.



Dan And it hasn't subsided in more than six years?
Dan Seems like you have a profound problem no matter which one it
is.

Problem being?

G Your clone Kane whose been here for ages
G has actually bragged about posting gratuitous
G obscenity, (epithets etc.) for over a year.

Dan BFD.

Dan, Does Jim know you had FIFTEEN run ins with CPS?
Soes he know you had FIVE foundeds that you reversed?
Does he know you regularly display your rage with "GFYS"?
Jim lives in a harmonious "Romper Room" world, remember.

Dan Swear word are so relevant.

When discussing "level of rage"? Of course.

Greg asked James C. Talbot AKA "KIDMAN"

Do you intend to evade all of the questions I asked of you?

Dan Asked Greg, the KING of evading questions.

Dan, what profession are you employed in?

On Jul 16, 5:03 pm, Greegor wrote:
On Jul 16, 9:32 am, firemonkey wrote:

....snipping unrelated discussion with FM.....

I still think you are Kane in drag.

Mmmm...gee, shouldn't that be "you are Donald in drag?"

Did you think the sock attacks would distract
from your apparent ""difficulties"" recently Donald?

Gosh, do you mean the threats to expose him as a panderer to
paedophiles by his managing an adoption webpage of chidren waiting for
adoption?

Yeah, he should be scared, because as soon as I have that proof you
two, Dennis and you, have to back up your claim, I'm going to nail
that scumsucker. I'll help tighten up the allegation document you are
going to file with the state of Oregon, so you two can mail it off.
It's the least I can do, isn't it?

Look OUT DONALD we are going to get you, Greegor, Dennis and Kane, the
Three Munchauseneers.

I'll be Athos. You can be Porthos, and Dennis can be Aramis, with Dan
as d'Artagnan.

Together we shall save France. All for one, and ONE FOR ALL.

Hold up your sword, Greg...Asstho...opps, Athos. Hold up your sword.






....snip...unrelated material...