1 Cuban girl in exile, 2 dads....

1 Cuban girl in exile, 2 dads
In the first public hearing on the fate of a 4-year-old girl whose
father wants her to return to Cuba, a frustrated judge called for calm.
BY CAROL MARBIN MILLER


http://www.miamiherald.com/579/story/175091.html


The closed-door custody battle over the 4-year-old Cuban girl who ended
up in foster care after her mother attempted suicide went on public
display Wednesday, baring finger-pointing, raised voices and raw emotion.

Crushed into a courtroom in Miami's dingy juvenile courthouse were about
a dozen lawyers, four psychologists, social workers, guardians, an
interpreter and a judge. They met in public after an appeals court
ordered the hearings, which had been held secretly for more than a year,
to be opened.

At stake is the fate of a 4-year-old girl who confided to a caseworker
that she has two fathers, ``one resting on each shoulder.''

The case also is freighted with a half-century's geopolitical conflict.
On one side is a Cuban father, hoping to raise his daughter, even in a
communist country. On the other is a proud exile community seeking to
shield her from the tyranny they fled.

''Everybody is attacking everybody,'' Circuit Judge Jeri B. Cohen, who
is presiding over the unusual case, said at the hearing Wednesday. ``I
can't control all of you.''

The youngster, whom The Miami Herald is not identifying to protect her
privacy, entered the United States legally in March 2005 when her mother
won a visa lottery. By the end of that year, however, she had been
sheltered by the Department of Children & Families, which had asked
Cohen to declare the girl's mother unfit.

The girl now lives with a Cuban exile family that is seeking to adopt
her. Her birth father, a fisherman and office worker from Guayos,
traveled to Miami six weeks ago to press his case. He attended the
hearing Wednesday in a crisply pressed crimson dress shirt and slacks,
his dark hair cropped short.

His lawyer, Ira Kurzban, a prominent immigration attorney, says he
thinks the girl's father is being treated unfairly.

Kurzban said the custody dispute is ''extraordinarily one-sided'' and
hinges largely on the child welfare agency's claims in an updated
petition that the girl might be ''endangered'' by any reunification with
her father.

''No one has ever accused my client of abusing his child. No one has
ever accused my client of being involved with drugs. No one has ever
accused my client of in any way harming his child,'' Kurzban said. ``But
he's being treated in this process as if all those things were true.''

''My client has done nothing wrong,'' Kurzban added. ``He has done what
any parent would do: try to get his child back.''

Cohen agreed that DCF's petition to declare the father unfit was
''light'' on evidence that he was a poor father. ''You know it, and I
know it,'' she added, looking squarely at the state's attorneys.

DCF is offering the father a chance to win custody of his daughter by
completing a set of tasks, such as the visitations, although an agency
attorney, Rebecca Kapotsa, said DCF ultimately would like to see the
foster family win permanent custody through a guardianship.

Said Alan Mishael, the foster family's attorney: ``What is going on with
even limited visitation is injurious to the child.''

Since he arrived, the father has been allowed only videotaped,
supervised visits with the girl in two- or three-hour intervals. During
a recent visit, a courtappointed psychologist strongly urged the birth
father to tell the girl that the nice people she is living with are not
her real family and that he is her real dad.

The father showed the little girl pictures of her as a baby in Cuba and
pointed out the family resemblance and shared surname, said Julio Vigil,
the psychologist.

''She had a very strong emotional reaction to that,'' Vigil said. ``She
cried and yelled at him, and said she had one father and she loved that
father.''

Another therapist who is treating the girl, Miguel Firpi, described the
girl's father as emotionally detached and warned that, after 17 visits,
he has failed to bond or forge an attachment to the little girl. ''The
father is not very expressive,'' Firpi said. ``There seems to be no bond.''

And, Firpi added, it should not be the job of a 4-year-old to establish
a relationship with her father. ''I believe this is a great burden for
this child,'' he said. ``She has expressed it already.''

A court-appointed therapist for the father called the visitation plan
''a setup for failure'' because the visits aren't long enough or often
enough.

''I think the people here are against my patient,'' said psychologist
Andrew Lagomasino. ``They use [the visitation schedule] as an attempt to
prove my patient is not a fit parent.''

Cohen agreed it would be difficult for the father to win over the girl
in such short visits. She ordered that he be allowed an unsupervised,
daylong visit with his daughter next week at the home where he's
staying, where they could swim together in a pool.

''Oftentimes,'' she said, ``you just have to take a leap of faith.''

The hearings -- it's unclear how many have been held because all child
welfare records are confidential -- had been closed to the public until
Wednesday, and Cohen has ordered that all courtroom participants be
gagged from discussing the case. She has even threatened to jail lawyers
who violated the gag order.

At the start of Wednesday's hearing, Cohen said she would abide by the
appeals court's ruling, which came at the request of The Miami Herald,
but she defended her decision to preside over the case privately.

Revelations about the dispute, she said, ``are the kind of thing that
can wreak havoc for the children.''

Balancing the public's right to know what goes on at the courthouse
against the vulnerability of a small child was just one of the case's
challenges, Cohen said.

''I am trying to do what is in the best interests of the child without
emotionally damaging her,'' the judge said.





CURRENTLY CHILD PROTECTIVE SERVICES VIOLATES MORE CIVIL RIGHTS ON A
DAILY BASIS THEN ALL OTHER AGENCIES COMBINED INCLUDING THE NSA / CIA
WIRETAPPING PROGRAM....

CPS Does not protect children...
It is sickening how many children are subject to abuse, neglect and even
killed at the hands of Child Protective Services.

every parent should read this .pdf from
connecticut dcf watch...

http://www.connecticutdcfwatch.com/8x11.pdf

http://www.connecticutdcfwatch.com

Number of Cases per 100,000 children in the US
These numbers come from The National Center on
Child Abuse and Neglect in Washington. (NCCAN)
Recent numbers have increased significantly for CPS

*Perpetrators of Maltreatment*

Physical Abuse CPS 160, Parents 59
Sexual Abuse CPS 112, Parents 13
Neglect CPS 410, Parents 241
Medical Neglect CPS 14 Parents 12
Fatalities CPS 6.4, Parents 1.5

CHILD PROTECTIVE SERVICES, HAPPILY DESTROYING HUNDREDS OF INNOCENT
FAMILIES YEARLY NATIONWIDE AND COMING TO YOU'RE HOME SOON...


BE SURE TO FIND OUT WHERE YOUR CANDIDATES STANDS ON THE ISSUE OF
REFORMING OR ABOLISHING CHILD PROTECTIVE SERVICES ("MAKE YOUR CANDIDATES
TAKE A STAND ON THIS ISSUE.") THEN REMEMBER TO VOTE ACCORDINGLY IF THEY
ARE "FAMILY UNFRIENDLY" IN THE NEXT ELECTION...

"fx" wrote in message
...
1 Cuban girl in exile, 2 dads
In the first public hearing on the fate of a 4-year-old girl whose father
wants her to return to Cuba, a frustrated judge called for calm.
BY CAROL MARBIN MILLER

The closed-door custody battle over the 4-year-old Cuban girl who ended up
in foster care after her mother attempted suicide went on public display
Wednesday, baring finger-pointing, raised voices and raw emotion.

Crushed into a courtroom in Miami's dingy juvenile courthouse were about a
dozen lawyers, four psychologists, social workers, guardians, an
interpreter and a judge. They met in public after an appeals court ordered
the hearings, which had been held secretly for more than a year, to be
opened.

At stake is the fate of a 4-year-old girl who confided to a caseworker
that she has two fathers, ``one resting on each shoulder.''

The case also is freighted with a half-century's geopolitical conflict. On
one side is a Cuban father, hoping to raise his daughter, even in a
communist country. On the other is a proud exile community seeking to
shield her from the tyranny they fled.

''Everybody is attacking everybody,'' Circuit Judge Jeri B. Cohen, who is
presiding over the unusual case, said at the hearing Wednesday. ``I can't
control all of you.''

The youngster, whom The Miami Herald is not identifying to protect her
privacy, entered the United States legally in March 2005 when her mother
won a visa lottery. By the end of that year, however, she had been
sheltered by the Department of Children & Families, which had asked Cohen
to declare the girl's mother unfit.

The girl now lives with a Cuban exile family that is seeking to adopt her.
Her birth father, a fisherman and office worker from Guayos, traveled to
Miami six weeks ago to press his case. He attended the hearing Wednesday
in a crisply pressed crimson dress shirt and slacks, his dark hair cropped
short.

His lawyer, Ira Kurzban, a prominent immigration attorney, says he thinks
the girl's father is being treated unfairly.

Kurzban said the custody dispute is ''extraordinarily one-sided'' and
hinges largely on the child welfare agency's claims in an updated petition
that the girl might be ''endangered'' by any reunification with her
father.

''No one has ever accused my client of abusing his child. No one has ever
accused my client of being involved with drugs. No one has ever accused my
client of in any way harming his child,'' Kurzban said. ``But he's being
treated in this process as if all those things were true.''

''My client has done nothing wrong,'' Kurzban added. ``He has done what
any parent would do: try to get his child back.''

Cohen agreed that DCF's petition to declare the father unfit was ''light''
on evidence that he was a poor father. ''You know it, and I know it,'' she
added, looking squarely at the state's attorneys.

DCF is offering the father a chance to win custody of his daughter by
completing a set of tasks, such as the visitations, although an agency
attorney, Rebecca Kapotsa, said DCF ultimately would like to see the
foster family win permanent custody through a guardianship.

Said Alan Mishael, the foster family's attorney: ``What is going on with
even limited visitation is injurious to the child.''

Since he arrived, the father has been allowed only videotaped, supervised
visits with the girl in two- or three-hour intervals. During a recent
visit, a courtappointed psychologist strongly urged the birth father to
tell the girl that the nice people she is living with are not her real
family and that he is her real dad.

The father showed the little girl pictures of her as a baby in Cuba and
pointed out the family resemblance and shared surname, said Julio Vigil,
the psychologist.

''She had a very strong emotional reaction to that,'' Vigil said. ``She
cried and yelled at him, and said she had one father and she loved that
father.''

Another therapist who is treating the girl, Miguel Firpi, described the
girl's father as emotionally detached and warned that, after 17 visits, he
has failed to bond or forge an attachment to the little girl. ''The father
is not very expressive,'' Firpi said. ``There seems to be no bond.''

And, Firpi added, it should not be the job of a 4-year-old to establish a
relationship with her father. ''I believe this is a great burden for this
child,'' he said. ``She has expressed it already.''

A court-appointed therapist for the father called the visitation plan ''a
setup for failure'' because the visits aren't long enough or often enough.

''I think the people here are against my patient,'' said psychologist
Andrew Lagomasino. ``They use [the visitation schedule] as an attempt to
prove my patient is not a fit parent.''

Cohen agreed it would be difficult for the father to win over the girl in
such short visits. She ordered that he be allowed an unsupervised, daylong
visit with his daughter next week at the home where he's staying, where
they could swim together in a pool.

''Oftentimes,'' she said, ``you just have to take a leap of faith.''

The hearings -- it's unclear how many have been held because all child
welfare records are confidential -- had been closed to the public until
Wednesday, and Cohen has ordered that all courtroom participants be gagged
from discussing the case. She has even threatened to jail lawyers who
violated the gag order.

At the start of Wednesday's hearing, Cohen said she would abide by the
appeals court's ruling, which came at the request of The Miami Herald, but
she defended her decision to preside over the case privately.

Revelations about the dispute, she said, ``are the kind of thing that can
wreak havoc for the children.''

Balancing the public's right to know what goes on at the courthouse
against the vulnerability of a small child was just one of the case's
challenges, Cohen said.

''I am trying to do what is in the best interests of the child without
emotionally damaging her,'' the judge said.


Once again we have an "Elian" case. And once again I side with the Cuban
father. Regardless of the political bull****, the child belongs with her
father. PERIOD!
Regardless of what one feels about the government in Cuba the tie to her
father trumps all else. I include the poisoning of the child's mind against
her father due to blind hatred of Mr. Castro that so poisons Miami. How easy
it is to attack the child's father - I wonder how many yanked into such an
alien world would do as well as he has?

The child by all that it right and holy belongs with her popi!!!

Here's a thought, you go back to Castro and stay there.... hopefully
where there is no internet service. You're washed up here in the
states anyhow, a known thief and liar.
I have a small blow up raft you can have to get there. We will all
throw a party for you, after you're gone.


Firemonkey


krp wrote:
"fx" wrote in message
...
1 Cuban girl in exile, 2 dads
In the first public hearing on the fate of a 4-year-old girl whose father
wants her to return to Cuba, a frustrated judge called for calm.
BY CAROL MARBIN MILLER

The closed-door custody battle over the 4-year-old Cuban girl who ended up
in foster care after her mother attempted suicide went on public display
Wednesday, baring finger-pointing, raised voices and raw emotion.

Crushed into a courtroom in Miami's dingy juvenile courthouse were about a
dozen lawyers, four psychologists, social workers, guardians, an
interpreter and a judge. They met in public after an appeals court ordered
the hearings, which had been held secretly for more than a year, to be
opened.

At stake is the fate of a 4-year-old girl who confided to a caseworker
that she has two fathers, ``one resting on each shoulder.''

The case also is freighted with a half-century's geopolitical conflict. On
one side is a Cuban father, hoping to raise his daughter, even in a
communist country. On the other is a proud exile community seeking to
shield her from the tyranny they fled.

''Everybody is attacking everybody,'' Circuit Judge Jeri B. Cohen, who is
presiding over the unusual case, said at the hearing Wednesday. ``I can't
control all of you.''

The youngster, whom The Miami Herald is not identifying to protect her
privacy, entered the United States legally in March 2005 when her mother
won a visa lottery. By the end of that year, however, she had been
sheltered by the Department of Children & Families, which had asked Cohen
to declare the girl's mother unfit.

The girl now lives with a Cuban exile family that is seeking to adopt her.
Her birth father, a fisherman and office worker from Guayos, traveled to
Miami six weeks ago to press his case. He attended the hearing Wednesday
in a crisply pressed crimson dress shirt and slacks, his dark hair cropped
short.

His lawyer, Ira Kurzban, a prominent immigration attorney, says he thinks
the girl's father is being treated unfairly.

Kurzban said the custody dispute is ''extraordinarily one-sided'' and
hinges largely on the child welfare agency's claims in an updated petition
that the girl might be ''endangered'' by any reunification with her
father.

''No one has ever accused my client of abusing his child. No one has ever
accused my client of being involved with drugs. No one has ever accused my
client of in any way harming his child,'' Kurzban said. ``But he's being
treated in this process as if all those things were true.''

''My client has done nothing wrong,'' Kurzban added. ``He has done what
any parent would do: try to get his child back.''

Cohen agreed that DCF's petition to declare the father unfit was ''light''
on evidence that he was a poor father. ''You know it, and I know it,'' she
added, looking squarely at the state's attorneys.

DCF is offering the father a chance to win custody of his daughter by
completing a set of tasks, such as the visitations, although an agency
attorney, Rebecca Kapotsa, said DCF ultimately would like to see the
foster family win permanent custody through a guardianship.

Said Alan Mishael, the foster family's attorney: ``What is going on with
even limited visitation is injurious to the child.''

Since he arrived, the father has been allowed only videotaped, supervised
visits with the girl in two- or three-hour intervals. During a recent
visit, a courtappointed psychologist strongly urged the birth father to
tell the girl that the nice people she is living with are not her real
family and that he is her real dad.

The father showed the little girl pictures of her as a baby in Cuba and
pointed out the family resemblance and shared surname, said Julio Vigil,
the psychologist.

''She had a very strong emotional reaction to that,'' Vigil said. ``She
cried and yelled at him, and said she had one father and she loved that
father.''

Another therapist who is treating the girl, Miguel Firpi, described the
girl's father as emotionally detached and warned that, after 17 visits, he
has failed to bond or forge an attachment to the little girl. ''The father
is not very expressive,'' Firpi said. ``There seems to be no bond.''

And, Firpi added, it should not be the job of a 4-year-old to establish a
relationship with her father. ''I believe this is a great burden for this
child,'' he said. ``She has expressed it already.''

A court-appointed therapist for the father called the visitation plan ''a
setup for failure'' because the visits aren't long enough or often enough.

''I think the people here are against my patient,'' said psychologist
Andrew Lagomasino. ``They use [the visitation schedule] as an attempt to
prove my patient is not a fit parent.''

Cohen agreed it would be difficult for the father to win over the girl in
such short visits. She ordered that he be allowed an unsupervised, daylong
visit with his daughter next week at the home where he's staying, where
they could swim together in a pool.

''Oftentimes,'' she said, ``you just have to take a leap of faith.''

The hearings -- it's unclear how many have been held because all child
welfare records are confidential -- had been closed to the public until
Wednesday, and Cohen has ordered that all courtroom participants be gagged
from discussing the case. She has even threatened to jail lawyers who
violated the gag order.

At the start of Wednesday's hearing, Cohen said she would abide by the
appeals court's ruling, which came at the request of The Miami Herald, but
she defended her decision to preside over the case privately.

Revelations about the dispute, she said, ``are the kind of thing that can
wreak havoc for the children.''

Balancing the public's right to know what goes on at the courthouse
against the vulnerability of a small child was just one of the case's
challenges, Cohen said.

''I am trying to do what is in the best interests of the child without
emotionally damaging her,'' the judge said.


Once again we have an "Elian" case. And once again I side with the Cuban
father. Regardless of the political bull****, the child belongs with her
father. PERIOD!
Regardless of what one feels about the government in Cuba the tie to her
father trumps all else. I include the poisoning of the child's mind against
her father due to blind hatred of Mr. Castro that so poisons Miami. How easy
it is to attack the child's father - I wonder how many yanked into such an
alien world would do as well as he has?

The child by all that it right and holy belongs with her popi!!!

On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 01:40:37 -0700, fx wrote:

1 Cuban girl in exile, 2 dads
In the first public hearing on the fate of a 4-year-old girl whose
father wants her to return to Cuba, a frustrated judge called for calm.
BY CAROL MARBIN MILLER

In terms of rights, whose should be honored in this conflict...the
long absent father, or the girl's current relationship with the man
she views as her father?

Support your argument with something other than opinion please. There
is enough hot air already coming from the eternally deflating bag of
methane, krp.

I can't really type while holding my nose, so I'll no longer respond
seriously to the little fat fart.

But Michael, you I will debate anytime you care to take off that
poorly fitting transparent sock.

Or you can continue to run and hide.

0:]




http://www.miamiherald.com/579/story/175091.html


The closed-door custody battle over the 4-year-old Cuban girl who ended
up in foster care after her mother attempted suicide went on public
display Wednesday, baring finger-pointing, raised voices and raw emotion.

Crushed into a courtroom in Miami's dingy juvenile courthouse were about
a dozen lawyers, four psychologists, social workers, guardians, an
interpreter and a judge. They met in public after an appeals court
ordered the hearings, which had been held secretly for more than a year,
to be opened.

At stake is the fate of a 4-year-old girl who confided to a caseworker
that she has two fathers, ``one resting on each shoulder.''

The case also is freighted with a half-century's geopolitical conflict.
On one side is a Cuban father, hoping to raise his daughter, even in a
communist country. On the other is a proud exile community seeking to
shield her from the tyranny they fled.

''Everybody is attacking everybody,'' Circuit Judge Jeri B. Cohen, who
is presiding over the unusual case, said at the hearing Wednesday. ``I
can't control all of you.''

The youngster, whom The Miami Herald is not identifying to protect her
privacy, entered the United States legally in March 2005 when her mother
won a visa lottery. By the end of that year, however, she had been
sheltered by the Department of Children & Families, which had asked
Cohen to declare the girl's mother unfit.

The girl now lives with a Cuban exile family that is seeking to adopt
her. Her birth father, a fisherman and office worker from Guayos,
traveled to Miami six weeks ago to press his case. He attended the
hearing Wednesday in a crisply pressed crimson dress shirt and slacks,
his dark hair cropped short.

His lawyer, Ira Kurzban, a prominent immigration attorney, says he
thinks the girl's father is being treated unfairly.

Kurzban said the custody dispute is ''extraordinarily one-sided'' and
hinges largely on the child welfare agency's claims in an updated
petition that the girl might be ''endangered'' by any reunification with
her father.

''No one has ever accused my client of abusing his child. No one has
ever accused my client of being involved with drugs. No one has ever
accused my client of in any way harming his child,'' Kurzban said. ``But
he's being treated in this process as if all those things were true.''

''My client has done nothing wrong,'' Kurzban added. ``He has done what
any parent would do: try to get his child back.''

Cohen agreed that DCF's petition to declare the father unfit was
''light'' on evidence that he was a poor father. ''You know it, and I
know it,'' she added, looking squarely at the state's attorneys.

DCF is offering the father a chance to win custody of his daughter by
completing a set of tasks, such as the visitations, although an agency
attorney, Rebecca Kapotsa, said DCF ultimately would like to see the
foster family win permanent custody through a guardianship.

Said Alan Mishael, the foster family's attorney: ``What is going on with
even limited visitation is injurious to the child.''

Since he arrived, the father has been allowed only videotaped,
supervised visits with the girl in two- or three-hour intervals. During
a recent visit, a courtappointed psychologist strongly urged the birth
father to tell the girl that the nice people she is living with are not
her real family and that he is her real dad.

The father showed the little girl pictures of her as a baby in Cuba and
pointed out the family resemblance and shared surname, said Julio Vigil,
the psychologist.

''She had a very strong emotional reaction to that,'' Vigil said. ``She
cried and yelled at him, and said she had one father and she loved that
father.''

Another therapist who is treating the girl, Miguel Firpi, described the
girl's father as emotionally detached and warned that, after 17 visits,
he has failed to bond or forge an attachment to the little girl. ''The
father is not very expressive,'' Firpi said. ``There seems to be no bond.''

And, Firpi added, it should not be the job of a 4-year-old to establish
a relationship with her father. ''I believe this is a great burden for
this child,'' he said. ``She has expressed it already.''

A court-appointed therapist for the father called the visitation plan
''a setup for failure'' because the visits aren't long enough or often
enough.

''I think the people here are against my patient,'' said psychologist
Andrew Lagomasino. ``They use [the visitation schedule] as an attempt to
prove my patient is not a fit parent.''

Cohen agreed it would be difficult for the father to win over the girl
in such short visits. She ordered that he be allowed an unsupervised,
daylong visit with his daughter next week at the home where he's
staying, where they could swim together in a pool.

''Oftentimes,'' she said, ``you just have to take a leap of faith.''

The hearings -- it's unclear how many have been held because all child
welfare records are confidential -- had been closed to the public until
Wednesday, and Cohen has ordered that all courtroom participants be
gagged from discussing the case. She has even threatened to jail lawyers
who violated the gag order.

At the start of Wednesday's hearing, Cohen said she would abide by the
appeals court's ruling, which came at the request of The Miami Herald,
but she defended her decision to preside over the case privately.

Revelations about the dispute, she said, ``are the kind of thing that
can wreak havoc for the children.''

Balancing the public's right to know what goes on at the courthouse
against the vulnerability of a small child was just one of the case's
challenges, Cohen said.

''I am trying to do what is in the best interests of the child without
emotionally damaging her,'' the judge said.





CURRENTLY CHILD PROTECTIVE SERVICES VIOLATES MORE CIVIL RIGHTS ON A
DAILY BASIS THEN ALL OTHER AGENCIES COMBINED INCLUDING THE NSA / CIA
WIRETAPPING PROGRAM....

CPS Does not protect children...
It is sickening how many children are subject to abuse, neglect and even
killed at the hands of Child Protective Services.

every parent should read this .pdf from
connecticut dcf watch...

http://www.connecticutdcfwatch.com/8x11.pdf

http://www.connecticutdcfwatch.com

Number of Cases per 100,000 children in the US
These numbers come from The National Center on
Child Abuse and Neglect in Washington. (NCCAN)
Recent numbers have increased significantly for CPS

*Perpetrators of Maltreatment*

Physical Abuse CPS 160, Parents 59
Sexual Abuse CPS 112, Parents 13
Neglect CPS 410, Parents 241
Medical Neglect CPS 14 Parents 12
Fatalities CPS 6.4, Parents 1.5

CHILD PROTECTIVE SERVICES, HAPPILY DESTROYING HUNDREDS OF INNOCENT
FAMILIES YEARLY NATIONWIDE AND COMING TO YOU'RE HOME SOON...


BE SURE TO FIND OUT WHERE YOUR CANDIDATES STANDS ON THE ISSUE OF
REFORMING OR ABOLISHING CHILD PROTECTIVE SERVICES ("MAKE YOUR CANDIDATES
TAKE A STAND ON THIS ISSUE.") THEN REMEMBER TO VOTE ACCORDINGLY IF THEY
ARE "FAMILY UNFRIENDLY" IN THE NEXT ELECTION...

"firemonkey" wrote in message
ups.com...

Here's a thought, you go back to Castro and stay there.... hopefully
where there is no internet service. You're washed up here in the
states anyhow, a known thief and liar.
I have a small blow up raft you can have to get there. We will all
throw a party for you, after you're gone.

You're so sweet, no wonder all the guys want your body.

















NOT!!!

"0:-]" wrote in message
...

1 Cuban girl in exile, 2 dads
In the first public hearing on the fate of a 4-year-old girl whose
father wants her to return to Cuba, a frustrated judge called for calm.
BY CAROL MARBIN MILLER

In terms of rights, whose should be honored in this conflict...the
long absent father, or the girl's current relationship with the man
she views as her father?

Long absent father? When the child is "snatched" from him? And now the
child is mind poisoned against him? Yes, Kane, the father's rights SHOULD be
honored absent a showing of abuse or unfitness. Just because of your
arrogant bull**** that a poor Cuban fisherman isn't up to your ELITE
standing does not make it right to steal the man's child. Common decency
says that children should be with their parents absent an OVERWHELMING
reason to the contrary. That YOU, high Highness Kane see a poor fisherman
from a 3rd world country beneath human dignity says LOADS about YOU Mr.
Kane!

` I love how you just pop off with ZERO facts and you pronounce your
sanctimonious judgments on people. How typical of the CPS whore. The salient
part of the story now long snipped is that after all the months NOBODY has
produced on shred of evidence against the man other than in the tightly
controlled environment the child is against the father. One need not wonder
why. You seem to miss the hysteria in Miami that opposes so fanatically
children going back to Cuba even when it is the right thing to do. You see,
Kane, closed minds are not of a singular kind. Wars can indeed make some
strange bedfellows.

The side of Elian's father was correct when that saga wet the tabloids,
and the sage of this father is right too. The mother slipped off with the
child. The father's lack of contact wasn't voluntary. The issue of the
mother seeking freedom isn't the point here. It's the right of BLOOD and
that trumps even politics even you SILLY ASSED notions of superiority!
SHAME ON YOU AGAIN!

On Fri, 20 Jul 2007 07:07:43 GMT, " krp" wrote:


"0:-]" wrote in message
.. .

1 Cuban girl in exile, 2 dads
In the first public hearing on the fate of a 4-year-old girl whose
father wants her to return to Cuba, a frustrated judge called for calm.
BY CAROL MARBIN MILLER

In terms of rights, whose should be honored in this conflict...the
long absent father, or the girl's current relationship with the man
she views as her father?

Long absent father?

Why did you delete from your reply what I actually said, past that
question above, krp? So that you could set out on another vile lying
attack and think you wouldn't be seen for what you are?

So, let us see how you start right off with lies.

When the child is "snatched" from him?

How do you know she was "snatched?" You don't even know if he had
custody of her in Cuba. If he had, would the mother have left alone?
No, she'd have been a couple with him and both would have won the visa
lottery as a couple.

You are stupid, as usual:

"The youngster, whom The Miami Herald is not identifying to protect
her privacy, entered the United States legally in March 2005 when her
mother won a visa lottery. By the end of that year, however, she had
been sheltered by the Department of Children & Families, which had
asked Cohen to declare the girl's mother unfit."

Who, krp, can you show proof of, snatched the child from the father?

And this is, for the most part, a closed case for confidentiality, as
ordered by judge Cohen. We know and will know very little about the
disposition of the father as to the daughter. And their relationship.

The child has already voiced her concerns, has she not?

And now the
child is mind poisoned against him?

Is she? Your question mark is well placed. Could she not simply be
expressing her attachment to the man that has been fathering her for
the past few years...most of her childhood apparently?

Yes, Kane, the father's rights SHOULD be
honored absent a showing of abuse or unfitness.

In other words the child's rights do not matter? She has none?

Just because of your
arrogant bull**** that a poor Cuban fisherman isn't up to your ELITE
standing does not make it right to steal the man's child.

Well, I've read my post, and I made no comment about the fitness or
not of the child's biological father, and I come from very common
stock. My dad was a carpenter and fisherman, would you know. And a
lumberjack. Hardly makes me have any "ELITE" standing. In fact, except
for the separation in time, I'm more like the child than you, I'd
think.

Common decency
says that children should be with their parents absent an OVERWHELMING
reason to the contrary.

Yep, and their developmental psychological health is one of those
things being considered. And battled over. It is, as you label it, and
overwhelming reason, should it turn out that indeed she would suffer
if removed from the person she sees as her father.

That YOU, high Highness Kane

Son of a carpenter, fisherman, and logger? We are royalty? Gee thanks.

see a poor fisherman
from a 3rd world country beneath human dignity says LOADS about YOU Mr.
Kane!

I made no comment about his dignity, fitness, or other, about him...I
only asked a question about rights. And you haven't answered it at
all, other than to rant and lie about what I said.

And erase it, so the casual reader not following the story and thread
might actually believe your accusations.

That makes you, once again, the babbling arrogant liar that you have
proven you are for many years now.

Here, directly quoted by copy and paste, are my exact words, in full.

Please match your accusations against my actual statements and show
where I expressed what you say I did:

....In terms of rights, whose should be honored in this conflict...the
long absent father, or the girl's current relationship with the man
she views as her father?

Support your argument with something other than opinion please. There
is enough hot air already coming from the eternally deflating bag of
methane, krp.

I can't really type while holding my nose, so I'll no longer respond
seriously to the little fat fart.

But Michael, you I will debate anytime you care to take off that
poorly fitting transparent sock.

Or you can continue to run and hide.

0:] ...

` I love how you just pop off with ZERO facts and you pronounce your
sanctimonious judgments on people.


Do you see me making a judgement in my question? My only 'judgement'
above has nothing to do with this case, but with the poster. And even
then I take no position.

Or is pointing out the possibility of the child having rights equal to
the father offensive to you? If so, why?

How typical of the CPS whore.

Did you see me take a position one way or the other?

I've made no statement that precludes either outcome as being in favor
of one or the other.

The salient
part of the story now long snipped

You were the first and only person to snip it, jackass. So YOU put it
back if you want to use it for points to debate. Or be seen, once
again, for the lying manipulative slime you really are.

Hell, we are only about 8 posts deep, krp. You could certainly put it
back, or are you so disabled you can't block copy and paste?

is that after all the months NOBODY has
produced on shred of evidence against the man other than in the tightly
controlled environment the child is against the father.

Do you wish to have this child, to whom this man is a stranger...she
didn't even remember him...left alone with him for long periods of
time?

As to your speculation, bogus of course, because you do NOT read for
comprehension but simply for supporting your bias, and reject the
rest, is shot down by the few facts offered to us by the article.

Periods of longer visitation were being suggested and scheduled. So
the father and child will have a better chance to bond. Did you miss
that?

See, even without the article in front of me I can remember the
salient points. Clue, pasted directly from the article as posted by
FX:

.... Cohen agreed it would be difficult for the father to win over the
girl in such short visits. She ordered that he be allowed an
unsupervised, daylong visit with his daughter next week at the home
where he's staying, where they could swim together in a pool. ...

''Oftentimes,'' she said, ``you just have to take a leap of faith.''
....

From YOUR post, krp, attributing fx. Seems like we have a wise,
thoughtful, caring judge that's unwilling to make BLIND leaps of
faith, as you seem to be willing to do.

My question was about rights. Not about method. You still have not
chosen to argue the rights balance question. Have you?

One need not wonder why. You seem to miss the hysteria in Miami that opposes
so fanatically children going back to Cuba even when it is the right thing to do.

No, I didn't miss it. I dismissed it as not relevant to MY question.
The child's rights question. I made no political statement, or asked
about politics, not because I missed anything (I rarely do), but
narrowed the question to what should be of serious importance to all.

The child's rights. It appears judge Cohen didn't miss that either,
and the political problem...that's why she gave a gag order. To keep
the politics out as much as possible.

Say something trite now, krp.

You see, Kane, closed minds are not of a singular kind. Wars can indeed make some strange bedfellows.

Ah, yes, I knew you could.

Non sequitur. Unless of course you wish to explain the connection of
your statements above to the question I actually posed. Does the child
have rights equal to the father she does not know?

The side of Elian's father was correct when that saga wet the tabloids,
and the sage of this father is right too.

I do not know that, and neither do you unless you have information not
shared with the rest of us.

The mother slipped off with the
child. The father's lack of contact wasn't voluntary.

Apparently you know something that was not included in the article.
Would you point us to it please? Or are you simply voicing your
opinion of events?

The issue of the
mother seeking freedom isn't the point here.

No, but then if she went alone we have the question of whether or not
the man claiming fatherhood IS in fact the father, and whether or not
he had custody rights, if they divorced, awarded by the Cuban courts.

Has this all been settled? Has a DNA check been done?

It's the right of BLOOD and

Then you know this man fathered this child, for certain?

As they used to say, before DNA, it's "a wise child that knows his
father."

At birth it's damnably hard to fake who the mother is, but not the
father.

that trumps even politics even you SILLY ASSED notions of superiority!
SHAME ON YOU AGAIN!

kpr, you have done nothing but lie in virtually every post you and I
have exchanged.

And again, you create a story about what I said or didn't say, that is
a lie.

Show in MY POSTS, MY words, where I have expressed such sentiments.

I have asked a question about father's and children's rights, as to
which is superior, or inferior, and of course you may, from my former
posts on this subject on other cases, presume that I hold both as
equal.

But you cannot claim that I hold the father's to be less for any
reason.

I've never taken such a position, and I have not done so here.

I have merely pointed out that those involved are in dispute about
this very thing, and Judge Cohen is doing her best to preside in this
dispute to protect the RIGHTS OF BOTH.

Do you disagree? And if so, how, and why do you take your position?

Politics aside. You bursts of gaseous methane beside the point.

Stick to the question.

Do children have less, more, or equal rights?

Now, if equal, as I believe they do under our system of laws, and you
believe otherwise, please state your case based on our laws.

.... if you can.
0:]

krp wrote:
"firemonkey" wrote in message
ups.com...

Here's a thought, you go back to Castro and stay there.... hopefully
where there is no internet service. You're washed up here in the
states anyhow, a known thief and liar.
I have a small blow up raft you can have to get there. We will all
throw a party for you, after you're gone.

You're so sweet, no wonder all the guys want your body.

NOT!!!

What? Is that supposed to be offensive?

Is that what you think about American women? That their self esteem is
all wrapped up in how many men want their body? Are you really that
stupid?
Really, you are such a silly little fool.

Firemonkey

firemonkey wrote:
krp wrote:
"firemonkey" wrote in message
ups.com...

Here's a thought, you go back to Castro and stay there.... hopefully
where there is no internet service. You're washed up here in the
states anyhow, a known thief and liar.
I have a small blow up raft you can have to get there. We will all
throw a party for you, after you're gone.
You're so sweet, no wonder all the guys want your body.

NOT!!!

What? Is that supposed to be offensive?

Is that what you think about American women? That their self esteem is
all wrapped up in how many men want their body? Are you really that
stupid?
Really, you are such a silly little fool.

Firemonkey


Let me guess firedonkey - they lust you for your mind.

Bwawawawawawawawawahaha

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

KANE - WORLD'S GREATEST EXPERT ON CUBA AND INTERNATIONAL PARENTAL RIGHTS LAW
"0:-]" wrote in message
...

1 Cuban girl in exile, 2 dads
In the first public hearing on the fate of a 4-year-old girl whose
father wants her to return to Cuba, a frustrated judge called for calm.
BY CAROL MARBIN MILLER

In terms of rights, whose should be honored in this conflict...the
long absent father, or the girl's current relationship with the man
she views as her father?

Long absent father?

Why did you delete from your reply what I actually said, past that
question above, krp? So that you could set out on another vile lying
attack and think you wouldn't be seen for what you are?

Ph so NOW you claim PERSONAL KNOWLEDGE in addition to your EXPERT STATUS
on international Child custody law. SO - since you KNOW firsthand, tell us
the date and PRECISE TIME to the second the last time the CUBAN (biological)
(REAL) father saw his child.. Tell us WHERE it took place andf how many
times he beat or sexually molested the child on that day Kane!!!

So, let us see how you start right off with lies.

When the child is "snatched" from him?

How do you know she was "snatched?" You don't even know if he had
custody of her in Cuba. If he had, would the mother have left alone?
No, she'd have been a couple with him and both would have won the visa
lottery as a couple.

"The youngster, whom The Miami Herald is not identifying to protect
her privacy, entered the United States legally in March 2005 when her
mother won a visa lottery. By the end of that year, however, she had
been sheltered by the Department of Children & Families, which had
asked Cohen to declare the girl's mother unfit."

Kane was the FATHER consulted for his permission to abscond with the
child out of Cuba?

Who, krp, can you show proof of, snatched the child from the father?

It's in the trial proceeding Kane. The LAW in Cuba - - REQUIRES that
the othjer parent give permission through legal chanels before the child is
removed from the country. That was not done according to court papers here.

And this is, for the most part, a closed case for confidentiality, as
ordered by judge Cohen. We know and will know very little about the
disposition of the father as to the daughter. And their relationship.

Other than the FACTS that his contact is controlled by people 100%
hostile to him and his rights.

The child has already voiced her concerns, has she not?

Like many children Kane - repeating what they are TOLD to say. Remember
the Elian video???????

And now the child is mind poisoned against him?

Is she? Your question mark is well placed. Could she not simply be
expressing her attachment to the man that has been fathering her for
the past few years...most of her childhood apparently?

Unlikely that a 4 year old would "remember" independently events when
they were LESS THAN 2 years old! The chances of the girls memory being REAL
is on in maybe 450 trillion!

Yes, Kane, the father's rights SHOULD be honored absent a showing of abuse
or unfitness.

In other words the child's rights do not matter? She has none?

Absent a showing (PROOF) that the father is irredemable unfit .. NONE!
ZIP! NADA! ZILCH! ZERO! Got it Kane? Kids of keeps unprincipled cretins like
the people YOU hang with - with successfully getting away with head tripping
kids to get them where they don't deserve them. NONE KANE! NOT NEVEN A
LITTLE BIT! Kids are NOT property. They aren't a prize. That's why ALL OVER
THE WORLD biology IS a trump card absent proof of UNFITNESS!

Just because of your arrogant bull**** that a poor Cuban fisherman isn't
up to your ELITE
standing does not make it right to steal the man's child.

Well, I've read my post, and I made no comment about the fitness or
not of the child's biological father, and I come from very common
stock. My dad was a carpenter and fisherman, would you know. And a
lumberjack. Hardly makes me have any "ELITE" standing. In fact, except
for the separation in time, I'm more like the child than you, I'd
think.

Sure you did you slured the hell out of the man. Your DAD may have been
a down to Earth regular guy, Kane, But I bet you are NOTHING like him with
your arrogance.

Common decency says that children should be with their parents absent an
OVERWHELMING
reason to the contrary.

Yep, and their developmental psychological health is one of those
things being considered. And battled over. It is, as you label it, and
overwhelming reason, should it turn out that indeed she would suffer
if removed from the person she sees as her father.

MADE to see as her father. ARTIFICIAL Kane! But first you must PROVE
the father iredeemably unfit! GOOD LUC!

That YOU, high Highness Kane

Son of a carpenter, fisherman, and logger? We are royalty? Gee thanks.

Your dad was probably a decent guy bet he would be embarassed with his
son who thinks he is so superior.

see a poor fisherman from a 3rd world country beneath human dignity says
LOADS about YOU Mr.
Kane!

I made no comment about his dignity, fitness, or other, about him...I
only asked a question about rights. And you haven't answered it at
all, other than to rant and lie about what I said.

Sure you did when you srated off claiming he was unfiot and had
abandoned his daughter etc,

And erase it, so the casual reader not following the story and thread
might actually believe your accusations.

That makes you, once again, the babbling arrogant liar that you have
proven you are for many years now.

Feeling the pinch Kane?

...In terms of rights, whose should be honored in this conflict...the
long absent father, or the girl's current relationship with the man
she views as her father?

Long absent you CLOWN? She's ONLY 4 years old!! The kid has been here
for about 2 years. YOU have pronounced her BAD MEMORIES of her father and
the rest of your BULL**** Kane! BULL****! Absoulte BULL****! Only a TOTAL
ignoramus would believe much less try to claim that a 4 year old child's
"memories" of events when they were younger that 2 years of age were
"accurate" or had ANY possibility of being so! AGAIN you demonstrate your
arrogant ignorance of child development. But the FACT that you are TOTALLY
full of **** has NEVER slowed you down!

Support your argument with something other than opinion please. There
is enough hot air already coming from the eternally deflating bag of
methane, krp.

I can't really type while holding my nose, so I'll no longer respond
seriously to the little fat fart.

Oh bull**** you have been caught making **** up again and are running
for the hills.

But Michael, you I will debate anytime you care to take off that
poorly fitting transparent sock.

Or you can continue to run and hide.

That's be you Kane.

Has this all been settled? Has a DNA check been done?

It's the right of BLOOD and

Then you know this man fathered this child, for certain?

HEY DIP****!!!! EARTH TO DIP**** KANE -- - NOBODY has denied he's the
father! NOBODY -- well EXCEPT YOU!

that trumps even politics even you SILLY ASSED notions of superiority!
SHAME ON YOU AGAIN!

kpr, you have done nothing but lie in virtually every post you and I
have exchanged.

I'm not the one claiming a 4 year old's memories from when she was not
yet TWO YEARS OLD are accurate. Nor am *I* the one who made the FACT CLAIM
that her father had "ABANDONED HER."

And again, you create a story about what I said or didn't say, that is a
lie.

Yes ADD boy you say that whenever your original claims start falling
apart.

Show in MY POSTS, MY words, where I have expressed such sentiments.

I have asked a question about father's and children's rights, as to
which is superior, or inferior, and of course you may, from my former
posts on this subject on other cases, presume that I hold both as equal.

No Kane that's your position today as you retreat from your dogmatic
claims of yesterday. The rights of a PARENT are always superior to all
others absent PROOF of irredeemable unfitness and irrepreble harm to the
child. (Life threat,) NOIT that some American PRICK doesn't like the form of
government in thair native land.

But you cannot claim that I hold the father's to be less for any reason.

Sure I can Kane the way you launched out of the box claiming that he HAD
in FACT "abandoned" his child and you went on to say he had not expressed
any interest in seeing his daughter. Both fact claims are 100% FALSE
accoding to the available record.

I've never taken such a position, and I have not done so here.

Trying to wiggle MISTER CUBA EXPERT???

I have merely pointed out that those involved are in dispute about
this very thing, and Judge Cohen is doing her best to preside in this
dispute to protect the RIGHTS OF BOTH.

Do you disagree? And if so, how, and why do you take your position?

The Judge is doing what must be done. Since there has been no ruling yet
one can't fault the judge other than prematurely. I have NO idea if his
lawyer is worth a bucket of cold snot. Most have no clue about such a case.

Politics aside. You bursts of gaseous methane beside the point.
Stick to the question.
Do children have less, more, or equal rights?

Absent a show ing that the parent is unfit or a threat the child has NO
rights! NONE Kane! ZIP! NADA!

Now, if equal, as I believe they do under our system of laws, and you
believe otherwise, please state your case based on our laws.

But that's your problem Kane how you anthrmorphize the kids into having
the SAME intellectual capacity as adults ONLY where it suits your EXTREMIST
views of the all powerful state! No Kane a CHILD does NOT have ANY say
where they live without evidence that their preference is based on REAL
FACTS!
Not your insipid desires of the STATE AS PARENT!