wDnnSCPS

WDNNSCPS (We Don Need No Steekin' CPS)
Kane's Komments
News and Commentary on national and international child protection
issues

Kane:
Oh oh....another wrongfully convicted of SBS, right, greegor?

SOLDIER Convicted of Child Abuse Receives Army Discharge
WTVD - Durham-Raleigh,NC,USA
By The Associated Press. (07/08/05 - RALEIGH) -- A Fort Bragg soldier
convicted
of abusing his infant son last year has been honorably ...
http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/news/070805_APlocal_soldiershakenbaby.html


Kane: What? Another one falsely convicted and obviously with parent's
rights violated by the state. Imagine not being able to kill your own
child if you feel like it. 0;-[

ALLIANCE father pleads guilty to child abuse resulting in death of ...
Sioux City Journal - Sioux City,IA,USA
ALLIANCE, Neb. (AP) -- An Alliance man pleaded guilty Friday to child
abuse
resulting in the death of his nearly 2-year-old daughter. ...
....An autopsy showed that the girl had a severed small intestine,
internal bleeding and a fractured skull....
http://www.siouxcityjournal.com/articles/2005/07/09/news/nebraska/ddaeef44c13b8f4a86257039000c0d43.txt


Kane:
Any perfunctory check of all state's child death data will show that
the majority are five and under. What is it about small helpless
children that cannot possibly know they are annoying and adult that
inspires such murderous rage in parents? Or parent's significant
others?

DELAWARE County Man Arrested For Child Abuse
KOTV - Tulsa,OK,USA
A Green Country man is in jail for allegedly assaulting a seven month
old
child. It's a story unfolding out of Colcord, in Delaware County. ...
http://www.kotv.com/main/home/stories.asp?whichpage=1&id=86326

property line violations?



htmlbody bgcolor="black"


text="white"/html

If all you people would put this much energy in other things, your lives
might have some meaning. All you do is argue on the same subjects. Get
a life! Yes, all of you don't spank your children, how commendable.
Not everyone shares your views of parenting. Every situation is unique,
and requires a different corrective activity.

Charles Steward



htmlbody bgcolor="black"


text="white"/html

wrote:
If all you people would put this much energy in other things, your lives
might have some meaning.

What makes you think we don't?

All you do is argue on the same subjects.

Only where that's the subject, as here. I would presume that a
newsgroup with spanking as the subject would inspire people to discuss
"the same subject" in their posts, wouldn't you?

Get
a life!

Thank you. I'm probably having several according to the standards of
other folks a bit less energetic than I. You one of those, are you?

Yes, all of you don't spank your children, how commendable.

Some do and some don't. It's that the some who do are in short supply
here. See if you can round up more such as yourself but with more
intellect and skill at debating. We get lonesome for your folks,
because you make such extraordinarily good examples of why spanking is
a poor method of parenting. Obviously you were.

Not everyone shares your views of parenting.

So obvious that there wouldn't be a newsgroup discussing it as the
subject.

Are you always this slow, or is it just a bad day for you?

Every situation is unique,
and requires a different corrective activity.

You are correct in you claim that every situation is unique, yet you
assume that "not spanking" means doing nothing else. Not only are
non-spankers doing everything that spankers do, sans spanking, but tend
to seek out and develop parenting methods for their own children that
are unique for their children and for different situations.

I hope you weren't assuming otherwise.

Charles Steward



htmlbody bgcolor="black"


text="white"/html


Reset your newsreader to send in text only. Thanks.

0:-

WDNNSCPS (We Don Need No Steekin' CPS)
Kane's Komments
News and Commentary on national and international child protection
issues

Kane: Luggage?

Mother charged after kids take turns in trunk

Tuesday, July 12, 2005; Posted: 7:18 a.m. EDT (11:18 GMT)

"They asked to be let out. ... It was a hot day."
-- Curtis Schoonmaker

McLEAN, Virginia (AP) -- A mother has been charged with felony child
abuse and child cruelty after she allegedly forced two of her children
to take turns riding in the trunk of a car on an eight-hour drive from
Alabama to Virginia.

Cheryl Ann Schoonmaker, 38, forced the two girls, ages 8 and 10, to
take turns in the trunk July 1 because there wasn't enough room in the
car, according to Curtis Schoonmaker, her ex-husband......
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/07/12/kid....ap/index.html

So now you have said that child abuse is not criminal, but a CIVIL
issue.

Right?

Greegor wrote:
So now you have said that child abuse is not criminal, but a CIVIL
issue.

Right?

Wrong.

YOu seem terribly slow.

How many times do you have to see it in this ng, and in the media, both
as you find it and as I and other's post here, including your own
cohorts?

Child abuse can be one or the other or both. Depends on the
circumstances. CPS can investigate an abuse case and take it to civil
court, if it goes that far, or, upon finding evidence of criminal
charges, turn the case over to the police and criminal court.

We've discussed this endlessly in this very ng. Please. WAKE THE PUCK
UP!

It's in the news.

Wake up, greegor the seeker of truth.

0:-

WDNNSCPS (We Don Need No Steekin' CPS)

Kane's Komments

News and Commentary on national
and international child protection issues Kane

Kane: So whaddahyahthink douggie boy. Criminal Court or Civil family
court? How about you greegor?

Birthing Under The Influence
Oklahoma woman goes into labor after quaffing "Milwaukee's Best"

JULY 15--A pregnant Oklahoma woman who split a case of beer with her
boyfriend shortly before giving birth last month is facing felony child
neglect charges. Melissa Irene Tanner, a 37-year-old mother of seven,
had a blood alcohol content nearly four times the state's .08 limit,
according to the below probable cause affidavit. Tanner's baby, a girl
born June 30, had a BAC of .21, nearly three times the Oklahoma limit.
Tanner, who first told a nurse that she was unaware of the pregnancy,
was arrested and tossed into the Washington County lockup, where she is
being held in lieu of $30,000 bail. Tanner, pictured at right in a
booking photo, drank a case of beer a week during her pregnancy, and
apparently preferred "the cheap stuff," according to the affidavit. In
fact, a friend quoted by cops said that after the baby was born, she
asked Tanner what the girl was going to be named. Tanner, the friend
told deputies, replied, "Maybe Milwaukee's Best." .....
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive...51tanner1.html


Kane: Yes, douggieboy we certainly want to move social work issues to
the purview of the police...they are so good at that sort of thing with
children's issues.

Three officers, trooper resign amid sex investigation

TUALATIN, Ore. - The Washington County district attorney's office
announced it will not press criminal charges against three Tualatin
police officers and one Oregon State Police trooper accused of having
sexual contact with a female teen Explorer about five years ago.

But all four men agreed to resign after investigators found a "high
degree of certainty" that contact occurred, the district attorney's
office said Wednesday.

The four will also relinquish their Oregon law enforcement
certifications from the Department of Public Safety Standards and
Training, which allows them to serve as sworn police officers in
Oregon. ..........
http://katu.com/stories/78406.html


Kane: Gee Doug, imagine, when you are discounting the incidents of
child murder by parents, how easy it would have been for this guy to
get away with it. I wonder how many other's do? Compared to foster
parents that is.

Man admits
suffocating infant son
By Debra Barayuga


A 37-year-old man who admitted to suffocating his year-old son is
facing 20 years in prison, with a mandatory minimum of six years and
eight months.

Tapelu Levu, an inmate at Halawa Correctional Facility, pleaded guilty
yesterday in Circuit Court to manslaughter in the death of Maava Souza.

Levu was indicted in September on a charge of second-degree murder,
which carries penalties of life imprisonment with the possibility of
parole.

In court yesterday, Levu initially called the July 21, 2002, incident
an accident and said that the child suffocated after Levu threw a
blanket over him and left the room.

Deputy Prosecutor Glenn Kim said that had the case gone to trial, the
state would have proved that the child was smothered or suffocated and
that the medical examiner had ruled that the boy's death was not an
accident. Souza died of asphyxia.

Upon questioning by Circuit Judge Michael Town, Levu haltingly
responded, "I admit that I went suffocate my son."......

[[[ The dual verb form is common in Island slang. "I went suffocate.."
just means "I suffocated..." Doesn't mean the speaker is stupid. Most
folks in Hawaii are multi lingual...usually english, plus a little of
their family's language of ethnic origin, and "pidgin." It's similar to
"I be going," in black urban slang. ]]]

http://starbulletin.com/2005/07/15/news/index10.html

Kane: So whaddahyahthink douggie boy. Criminal Court or Civil family
court? How about you greegor?

Hi, Kane,

Criminal court is where felonies are heard.


Birthing Under The Influence
Oklahoma woman goes into labor after quaffing "Milwaukee's Best"

JULY 15--A pregnant Oklahoma woman who split a case of beer with her
boyfriend shortly before giving birth last month is facing felony child
neglect charges. Melissa Irene Tanner, a 37-year-old mother of seven,
had a blood alcohol content nearly four times the state's .08 limit,
according to the below probable cause affidavit. Tanner's baby, a girl
born June 30, had a BAC of .21, nearly three times the Oklahoma limit.
Tanner, who first told a nurse that she was unaware of the pregnancy,
was arrested and tossed into the Washington County lockup, where she is
being held in lieu of $30,000 bail. Tanner, pictured at right in a
booking photo, drank a case of beer a week during her pregnancy, and
apparently preferred "the cheap stuff," according to the affidavit. In
fact, a friend quoted by cops said that after the baby was born, she
asked Tanner what the girl was going to be named. Tanner, the friend
told deputies, replied, "Maybe Milwaukee's Best." .....
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive...51tanner1.html


Kane: Yes, douggieboy we certainly want to move social work issues to
the purview of the police...they are so good at that sort of thing with
children's issues.

The "we" would be inaccurate. You may want to move social work issues to
police, but I don't. I don't want police to do social work. I just think
social workers shouldn't be doing police work.

I would like to see police to do the investigative work trained to do so
that social workers can concentrate on doing the helping work they are
trained to do.

Apparently, state legislatures are increasingly coming to the same
conclusion.

Kane: Gee Doug, imagine, when you are discounting the incidents of
child murder by parents, how easy it would have been for this guy to
get away with it. I wonder how many other's do? Compared to foster
parents that is.

I have never discounted the incidence of child fatalities due to abuse and
neglect. I have pointed out that state CPS agencies report to NCCANDS that
fatalities due to abuse and neglect by foster carers is many times higher
than fatalities due to abuse and neglect by other caregivers, including
parents.

Secondly, the DA makes it clear in the article that you post that the father
would have been proven guilty if he had gone to trial. Obviously, the
murderer did NOT get away with it. So it wasn't "easy" to get away with.
He pleaded guilty.

"Deputy Prosecutor Glenn Kim said that had the case gone to trial, the
state would have proved that the child was smothered or suffocated and
that the medical examiner had ruled that the boy's death was not an
accident. Souza died of asphyxia."

Good investigation conducted by police who are trained to do so produces
evidence of the sort Prosecutor Kim feels confident will meet the beyond the
reasonable doubt theshold in court. Could a social worker have located and
properly weighed the same evidence? What do you think Kim would say?

Again, you will note that your articles all address cases where the
appropriate agency was used to do the investigation. The state did not find
the need to send the poor little darlings to parenting classes and anger
management therapy sessions. The state did not incarcerate the child
victims that survived. Instead, in all of these incidences, the perp was
incarcerated after people trained in investigation gathered the necessary
evidence. Child abuse is not a disease. Child abuse is a crime. Once
again, it was treated as such in the newsstories you share with us.

Have a great day!





Man admits
suffocating infant son
By Debra Barayuga


A 37-year-old man who admitted to suffocating his year-old son is
facing 20 years in prison, with a mandatory minimum of six years and
eight months.

Tapelu Levu, an inmate at Halawa Correctional Facility, pleaded guilty
yesterday in Circuit Court to manslaughter in the death of Maava Souza.

Levu was indicted in September on a charge of second-degree murder,
which carries penalties of life imprisonment with the possibility of
parole.

In court yesterday, Levu initially called the July 21, 2002, incident
an accident and said that the child suffocated after Levu threw a
blanket over him and left the room.

Deputy Prosecutor Glenn Kim said that had the case gone to trial, the
state would have proved that the child was smothered or suffocated and
that the medical examiner had ruled that the boy's death was not an
accident. Souza died of asphyxia.

Upon questioning by Circuit Judge Michael Town, Levu haltingly
responded, "I admit that I went suffocate my son."......

[[[ The dual verb form is common in Island slang. "I went suffocate.."
just means "I suffocated..." Doesn't mean the speaker is stupid. Most
folks in Hawaii are multi lingual...usually english, plus a little of
their family's language of ethnic origin, and "pidgin." It's similar to
"I be going," in black urban slang. ]]]

http://starbulletin.com/2005/07/15/news/index10.html

Doug wrote:
Kane: So whaddahyahthink douggie boy. Criminal Court or Civil family
court? How about you greegor?

Hi, Kane,

Criminal court is where felonies are heard.

Yes. Is all child abuse then felonious?

Criminal court is were historically misdemeanors are also heard.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...o ogle+Search

You mislead people by your coverup of where child abuse charges that by
CPS would be a civil matter and correctable in family court could go if
it's all moved to criminal court.

And you would be, obviously, allowing a great deal of abuse and neglect
to go unhindered because it just missed the severest levels of injury.
You are sick, sir. Very.

Birthing Under The Influence
Oklahoma woman goes into labor after quaffing "Milwaukee's Best"

JULY 15--A pregnant Oklahoma woman who split a case of beer with her
boyfriend shortly before giving birth last month is facing felony child
neglect charges. Melissa Irene Tanner, a 37-year-old mother of seven,
had a blood alcohol content nearly four times the state's .08 limit,
according to the below probable cause affidavit. Tanner's baby, a girl
born June 30, had a BAC of .21, nearly three times the Oklahoma limit.
Tanner, who first told a nurse that she was unaware of the pregnancy,
was arrested and tossed into the Washington County lockup, where she is
being held in lieu of $30,000 bail. Tanner, pictured at right in a
booking photo, drank a case of beer a week during her pregnancy, and
apparently preferred "the cheap stuff," according to the affidavit. In
fact, a friend quoted by cops said that after the baby was born, she
asked Tanner what the girl was going to be named. Tanner, the friend
told deputies, replied, "Maybe Milwaukee's Best." .....
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive...51tanner1.html


Kane: Yes, douggieboy we certainly want to move social work issues to
the purview of the police...they are so good at that sort of thing with
children's issues.

The "we" would be inaccurate.

"We" are society.

You exclude yourself from society? I thought so.

You may want to move social work issues to
police, but I don't.

Yes you do. You have celebrated this very thing in some of your posts.
Florida is an example. And it did NOT reduce child abuse there, as the
media and the data shows.

I don't want police to do social work.

Nor should they. But they invariably will under your little sick plan.

Where did you get the idea that police are not enforcers of social
"norms" writ in to laws? You are dumber than you look....much.

I just think
social workers shouldn't be doing police work.

They don't. They investigate ALL abuse reported to them that meets the
criteria for investigation. Then....

Cases that warrant criminal prosecution is turned over to LE regularly.
We've discussed that repeatedly in this ng, you and I, so your claim
here points out your lies.

It is the rule, you lie about, that the flow runs the other direction
as well. CPS is often involved after the fact of a criminal
investigation by police. Sometimes to follow up on what police see as
not warranting a charge of a felony, and sometimes CPS taking the
children because the charge of a felony has taken the parent(s) out of
the child's lives temporarily.

You are perpetuating your own lies. Manipulating readers is propaganda,
not information.

I would like to see police to do the investigative work trained to do so
that social workers can concentrate on doing the helping work they are
trained to do.

The former already do, and the latter already do. Criminal cases go to
the cops, and cops routinely turn over civil matters of child abuse,
neglect, and endangerment to the CPS, which could use more social
workers if the funding was adequate to hire them.

Our problem, society's problem....and I like that you exclude yourself
from it so pointedly as you did in the opening, since you are hardly a
responsible member as you so demonstrate....is that they fail to devote
enough public resource to the issue in relation to its true scope, in
both size and severity.

A great deal of denial goes on until the crimes exceed the civil and
become the felonious.

Apparently, state legislatures are increasingly coming to the same
conclusion.

You'd like to think so. And you'd like to persuade the uninformed
reader here of that, but a close examination shows something a bit
different.

Kane: Gee Doug, imagine, when you are discounting the incidents of
child murder by parents, how easy it would have been for this guy to
get away with it. I wonder how many other's do? Compared to foster
parents that is.

I have never discounted the incidence of child fatalities due to abuse and
neglect.

You have done nothing but pretend that the only numbers, for comparison
and policy setting are those "collected," when LE and Child Protection
knows full well there are still vast numbers that go uncaught,
unreported, and without any intervention at all.

I have pointed out that state CPS agencies report to NCCANDS that
fatalities due to abuse and neglect by foster carers is many times higher
than fatalities due to abuse and neglect by other caregivers, including
parents.

You ignore that one population is under close and continuous scrutiny
while the other, by law and circumstances is hardly observed
individually. Ask a foster parent if they are under close and
continuous supervision by the state.

Secondly, the DA makes it clear in the article that you post that the father
would have been proven guilty if he had gone to trial. Obviously, the
murderer did NOT get away with it. So it wasn't "easy" to get away with.
He pleaded guilty.

Sure it was. He damn near did. And you would pretend that other parents
that do such things don't get away with it? He was "unfortunate" in
stumbling about like a boob.

"Deputy Prosecutor Glenn Kim said that had the case gone to trial, the
state would have proved that the child was smothered or suffocated and
that the medical examiner had ruled that the boy's death was not an
accident. Souza died of asphyxia."

R R R .... what a riot. A prosecutor claims he could win....before and
without the fact of a trial. Nothing new there is there?

Ever seen what a good defense attorney can do to "expert" witnesses?

Hell, I'd ask right off the bat: "Mr Forensic Specialist, could
smothering, suffocation, happen any other way to an unattended
child...say getting tangle in blankets around their head, and wedged
down between the wall and the bed?"

"Unnhh..unnhhh....unnhhh." Defense attorny, "Thank you Mr FS, that will
be all."

All this has nothing to do with the fact he could have easily have
staged something a bit smarter, like the step grandmother in Oregon did
recently, and NOT confess.

Many murderers aren't so stupid. And would have forced it to trial.

Good investigation conducted by police who are trained to do so produces
evidence of the sort Prosecutor Kim feels confident will meet the beyond the
reasonable doubt theshold in court.

Some are. You ignore that if all child abuse were to go to the police
for investigation the costs would be astronomical. Newbie cops aren't
detectives. Or were you unaware that they are the ones doing
investigations? ALL of them?

Could a social worker have located and
properly weighed the same evidence? What do you think Kim would say?

When do you see Social workers, and NOT the cops, investigating a
possible murder?

I think Kim would say that criminal cases come from CPS, and civil
cases go to CPS. And each is a speciality that does it best.

Just how stupid to you take the readers here to be, outside of greegor
and bobber the swift?

Show us where CPS is doing, without the police, investigation of
criminal felonies.

Again, you will note that your articles all address cases where the
appropriate agency was used to do the investigation.

That's right.

My point exactly and yet you pretend that this is not so...that CPS is
doing criminal investigations that are police matters.

As for what the public knows:

CPS cases that do not escalate to felony cases rarely are seen in the
media. They are, by journalistic standards, mundane, boring, and just
plain dirty dreary little stories of hapless human failure. Good for a
special now and then, but not enough blood (since they aren't felonies)
to warrant the coverage.

The state did not find
the need to send the poor little darlings to parenting classes and anger
management therapy sessions.

I don't recall a single instance where the murder of a child resulted
in CPS sending the perps to such classes and sessions...do you?

The state did not incarcerate the child
victims that survived.

In many instances children that survived do in fact go into foster care
temporarily. Do you consider those "incarcerated?" Same agency, same
foster homes. Tell us your view. 0:-

Instead, in all of these incidences,

You are lying again, or compromised mentally.

the perp was
incarcerated after people trained in investigation gathered the necessary
evidence.

And the same is true in those cases that started with CPS and were
turned over to LE for charges of criminal felony.

Child abuse is not a disease.

You are wrong. It, like a great deal of crime, (some criminalogists
claim ALL is disease, social disease) is in fact a social disease. Your
magical thinking, your errors in judgement are fully exposed with such
a statement. Child abuse is most certainly a disease. Sometimes it's
also a crime.

Child abuse is a crime.

Of course it is. That it is a disease does not preclude it being also a
crime.

And that is is a crime does not preclude it being also a disease.

More thinking error on your part, or a deliberate attempt again to
manipulate and mislead the reader into the simplistic either/or trap of
error in judgement.

I doubt that outside of the two previously mentioned, even the most
ardent opponents of CPS here would miss your little ploy above, and not
appreciate that someone as intelligent as you (hence it would be
deliberate, not an accident) would insult their intelligence so
cavalierly.

Once
again, it was treated as such in the newsstories you share with us.

Yes, there is crime that is a disease that when acted out produces
results that are so injurious that they must be prosecuted in criminal
court. That nether removes the fact it's a disease, nor does it stop
the court from sentencing the actors to rehabilitation services, as YOU
yourself once pointed out in one of our usual exchanges on this
subject.

Apparently the court thinks it's a disease and that rehabilitation is
an exceptable response along with punishment.

Have a great day!

Yes, I am having one.

I'm quite tired and sore from shoveling spent stable bedding into my
compost piles for four days. My thoughts as I rest today are these:

Why the hell do I work so hard when I could have simply had you and
your buddies here direct your energies and talents to doing what you do
so well, shoveling the horse****.

0:-

Man admits
suffocating infant son
By Debra Barayuga


A 37-year-old man who admitted to suffocating his year-old son is
facing 20 years in prison, with a mandatory minimum of six years and
eight months.

Tapelu Levu, an inmate at Halawa Correctional Facility, pleaded guilty
yesterday in Circuit Court to manslaughter in the death of Maava Souza.

Levu was indicted in September on a charge of second-degree murder,
which carries penalties of life imprisonment with the possibility of
parole.

In court yesterday, Levu initially called the July 21, 2002, incident
an accident and said that the child suffocated after Levu threw a
blanket over him and left the room.

Deputy Prosecutor Glenn Kim said that had the case gone to trial, the
state would have proved that the child was smothered or suffocated and
that the medical examiner had ruled that the boy's death was not an
accident. Souza died of asphyxia.

Upon questioning by Circuit Judge Michael Town, Levu haltingly
responded, "I admit that I went suffocate my son."......

[[[ The dual verb form is common in Island slang. "I went suffocate.."
just means "I suffocated..." Doesn't mean the speaker is stupid. Most
folks in Hawaii are multi lingual...usually english, plus a little of
their family's language of ethnic origin, and "pidgin." It's similar to
"I be going," in black urban slang. ]]]

http://starbulletin.com/2005/07/15/news/index10.html