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#41
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Friendship problem for my 9 year old
On Sat, 02 Jun 2007 16:18:48 GMT, "Stephanie" wrote:
Not all shelters are motivated so much by lack of sympathy for battered men but by the difficulties of serving both communities. I was positively *amazed* the lengths to which batterers would go to get access to their victims when I worked at a women's shelter. It can be a simple measure of protection. ITA! I had to spirit one client and her kids away during the night once her husband attempted to breach our security. Terribly frightening. I agree that there is more of a stigma around being a battered man that prevents them from getting help though. The thinking seems to be that men have more resources available to them. That may or may not be true in all cases. Nan |
#42
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Friendship problem for my 9 year old
On Fri, 01 Jun 2007 22:16:22 -0700, Vickie
wrote: On Jun 1, 9:55 pm, Chris wrote: It makes TOTAL sense Vickie. You have certainly went above and beyond as it is.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Oh, good. That helps immensely. I have a terrible time with guilt sometimes and it helps to know some would do the same as I, or at least that it make some sense. Vickie I really commend your efforts. Hopefully the mother will receive some intensive counseling and will make sure her daughter gets the help she needs, too. Nan |
#43
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Friendship problem for my 9 year old
"Vickie" wrote in message oups.com... I think the threat of her husband is in the background now, with his being incarcerated. She has welfare, food stamps, etc. I am pretty sure she has called someone on her behalf for help. I remember her saying something about being on a waiting list and going to a group therapy session for women. I don't want to sound like I don't care at all about her or her welfare, but I am not a close friend of hers, but my daughter at one time was friends with hers, so that is where my mind goes - how are the girls holding up, are they getting the help they need. I forgot to mention this earlier, but it should not get lost in dealing with the more immediate issues. The husband is incarcerated, true. But he will get out at some point and unless she has already made and implemented a plan to keep herself safe from him at that time, he will almost certainly be right back into her life and house. Now is the time, while he is unable to observe or prevent her, to pick up and move quite some ways away and start a new life. Not necessarily easy, but how hard will it be if she cleans up her life and then he reappears? I've seen it happen more than a few times and in nearly all those instances the woman was unable to stand firm against the man, let him back in [where else could he go, she'd say, or he's changed, he told me he has], and things would devolve from there. People fleeing domestic violence can obtain new social security numbers, names and birth dates for themselves and their children. In Vermont [and I would hope elsewhere] there is a program they can use to have all mail sent to them through a mail drop, so no one can figure out where they are via snail mail. DV shelters should know how to hook a victim up with these services. Now is the time for that woman to become aware of these options and set a plan in motion. When he is about to be released is pretty much too late. And, if he is incarcerated for a charge related to something he did to her, guess who he is blaming for his current location. It is certainly not himself. Sitting in a small room with little to do for years on end will almost guarantee the development of a festering hate for her accompanied by many diverse plans on how revenge will be enacted. Encourage this woman to get her to a DV shelter, not to live, but to get services. -Aula |
#44
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Friendship problem for my 9 year old
Piggybacking to answer two lots of points in one post:
Chris wrote: On Jun 1, 12:26?pm, Vickie wrote: snip So, here I am. I really, really don't want to get involved anymore in this. My heart goes out to her and her children, but I really don't want to deal with this. When the calls come this summer for play dates, etc. should I keep up with the excuses or get a back-bone and just tell her when she gets her life back on track and help for her girls to then give me a call? Neither. Well, not unless you feel that this woman is someone you'd actually want to be friends with in the event that she gets her issues sorted out, and I'm not getting the impression that that was the case (though by all means stop me if I'm wrong). If you do not actively want a friendship with this woman then you are under no obligation whatsoever to have one, and should not hold the promise of one out as a carrot to persuade her to get her life sorted out. That's just another way of making her problems your problems and putting yourself under an obligation. So, if you don't want anything further to do with this woman - which is totally reasonable - then do not leave that door open either with excuses or with promises that she can call if she manages to do such-and-such. You can try being upfront about this: "I'm sorry, but I'm afraid this friendship isn't working out and I do not feel I can be involved in your life or your daughter's life any more. Goodbye." If you don't feel up to doing that, or if you're worried that this might antagonise her to a degree that makes her dangerous, then try just being polite but brick-wall unhelpful every time she tries to ask you to do something. If she starts the emotional blackmail about how her daughter needs your daughter's friendship, just say "I'm sorry to hear that, but please be realistic; my daughter is nine years old and cannot sort out your daughter's problems for her. Maybe you should get your daughter some counselling to help her to deal with the situation." If she starts going on about her own problems, say "I'm sorry to hear that, and I hope you find the help you need. I have to go now. Goodbye." If she asks you for favours, say politely and firmly that you won't be able to do that, and DO NOT get into any further discussion on the matter. If she asks you why not, just repeat "I'm afraid it won't be possible." If this seems to be going round in circles, then go back to the I-have-to-go-goodbye line. DO NOT give her any excuses or reasons as to why you can't help out, because the inevitable message that that gives is that if only you didn't have to do X then you would have helped her out, and that only encourages her to call and ask again. If all her requests are met by a very polite brick wall, then it's hard for her to keep asking. DO NOT get angry or aggressive at any point. That'll only start a fight. And DO NOT get apologetic at any point, no matter how tempting it is. Getting apologetic gives her the message that you're doing something wrong by refusing to help her, and thus legitimises her behaviour. (The "I'm sorry" in the above examples is meant to indicate sympathy, not apology.) You need to speak in a tone that suggests you are calmly confident that you are within your rights in acting in this way. Since you're not currently that confident, you'll need to fake it. Try rehearsing possible speeches with your husband or a friend (preferably with someone who you know *is* very confident and would be able to deal with this sort of situation, because they'll be able to give you the best feedback on whether you're doing it right). [...] I would also have a talk with my child about the reality of the situation to help her understand how different her friend has it. I do agree that it's worth having some kind of a talk with your daughter about this (which you may very well have done already). It sounds like a very difficult experience for her, and it would probably help her to be aware, if she isn't already, that this girl's behaviour is not a reflection on her but on the girl's own insecurities and difficult home life. She also needs to understand that she has handled a difficult situation extremely well and that, given the situation, her wariness about getting involved with this girl again is *totally reasonable*. Rather than giving her a list of things to do, I would just open this up with a comment about how this must all have been difficult for her and you've been impressed with how she's handled it, and encourage her to voice any concerns she has about the situation. Then I would invite the girl over and have a talk with the both of them about how I know they haven't seen eye to eye and have had relationship problems, etc. I would try to let the friend know that while I know that she has hardships that being mean and passing along the frustration and anger she is experiencing toward her friend(s) is the surest way to lose a friend and it is okay and nothing to be embarrassed about to share that she is just having a bad day, week, etc. I would let her know that she would be welcome at my house anytime for a break from her reality as long as she could offer the same respect that she deserves and is not getting. The problem with this is that it puts the OP's daughter in a situation where there is pressure on her to continue a friendship that has been draining on her and that she is very understandably reluctant to continue. Obviously, if she actively wants to continue the friendship then it may be reasonable to give her support and help in doing so without further damage. However, if she does not want to continue the friendship then she deserves support and help in *not* doing so. Look at it from the OP's daughter's perspective for a moment. This girl has bullied her and sapped her confidence under the guise of friendship. The OP's daughter has done a sterling job of dealing with this and putting it behind her. However, this has left her 'very wary' of getting involved in this friendship again - an extremely reasonable reaction. Issuing the other girl with an open invitation to the house would put a degree of pressure on the daughter to maintain this very dubious 'friendship' that I simply do not think it fair or appropriate to put on a nine-year-old. All the best, Sarah -- http://www.goodenoughmummy.typepad.com "That which can be destroyed by the truth, should be" - P. C. Hodgell |
#45
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Friendship problem for my 9 year old
In article , Sarah Vaughan says...
What Sarah said. Every word of it. Pay particular attention to the position that a "friendship" put upon a nine year old girl means for her. ::no snip, keeping it all!:: Piggybacking to answer two lots of points in one post: Chris wrote: On Jun 1, 12:26?pm, Vickie wrote: snip So, here I am. I really, really don't want to get involved anymore in this. My heart goes out to her and her children, but I really don't want to deal with this. When the calls come this summer for play dates, etc. should I keep up with the excuses or get a back-bone and just tell her when she gets her life back on track and help for her girls to then give me a call? Neither. Well, not unless you feel that this woman is someone you'd actually want to be friends with in the event that she gets her issues sorted out, and I'm not getting the impression that that was the case (though by all means stop me if I'm wrong). If you do not actively want a friendship with this woman then you are under no obligation whatsoever to have one, and should not hold the promise of one out as a carrot to persuade her to get her life sorted out. That's just another way of making her problems your problems and putting yourself under an obligation. So, if you don't want anything further to do with this woman - which is totally reasonable - then do not leave that door open either with excuses or with promises that she can call if she manages to do such-and-such. You can try being upfront about this: "I'm sorry, but I'm afraid this friendship isn't working out and I do not feel I can be involved in your life or your daughter's life any more. Goodbye." If you don't feel up to doing that, or if you're worried that this might antagonise her to a degree that makes her dangerous, then try just being polite but brick-wall unhelpful every time she tries to ask you to do something. If she starts the emotional blackmail about how her daughter needs your daughter's friendship, just say "I'm sorry to hear that, but please be realistic; my daughter is nine years old and cannot sort out your daughter's problems for her. Maybe you should get your daughter some counselling to help her to deal with the situation." If she starts going on about her own problems, say "I'm sorry to hear that, and I hope you find the help you need. I have to go now. Goodbye." If she asks you for favours, say politely and firmly that you won't be able to do that, and DO NOT get into any further discussion on the matter. If she asks you why not, just repeat "I'm afraid it won't be possible." If this seems to be going round in circles, then go back to the I-have-to-go-goodbye line. DO NOT give her any excuses or reasons as to why you can't help out, because the inevitable message that that gives is that if only you didn't have to do X then you would have helped her out, and that only encourages her to call and ask again. If all her requests are met by a very polite brick wall, then it's hard for her to keep asking. DO NOT get angry or aggressive at any point. That'll only start a fight. And DO NOT get apologetic at any point, no matter how tempting it is. Getting apologetic gives her the message that you're doing something wrong by refusing to help her, and thus legitimises her behaviour. (The "I'm sorry" in the above examples is meant to indicate sympathy, not apology.) You need to speak in a tone that suggests you are calmly confident that you are within your rights in acting in this way. Since you're not currently that confident, you'll need to fake it. Try rehearsing possible speeches with your husband or a friend (preferably with someone who you know *is* very confident and would be able to deal with this sort of situation, because they'll be able to give you the best feedback on whether you're doing it right). [...] I would also have a talk with my child about the reality of the situation to help her understand how different her friend has it. I do agree that it's worth having some kind of a talk with your daughter about this (which you may very well have done already). It sounds like a very difficult experience for her, and it would probably help her to be aware, if she isn't already, that this girl's behaviour is not a reflection on her but on the girl's own insecurities and difficult home life. She also needs to understand that she has handled a difficult situation extremely well and that, given the situation, her wariness about getting involved with this girl again is *totally reasonable*. Rather than giving her a list of things to do, I would just open this up with a comment about how this must all have been difficult for her and you've been impressed with how she's handled it, and encourage her to voice any concerns she has about the situation. Then I would invite the girl over and have a talk with the both of them about how I know they haven't seen eye to eye and have had relationship problems, etc. I would try to let the friend know that while I know that she has hardships that being mean and passing along the frustration and anger she is experiencing toward her friend(s) is the surest way to lose a friend and it is okay and nothing to be embarrassed about to share that she is just having a bad day, week, etc. I would let her know that she would be welcome at my house anytime for a break from her reality as long as she could offer the same respect that she deserves and is not getting. The problem with this is that it puts the OP's daughter in a situation where there is pressure on her to continue a friendship that has been draining on her and that she is very understandably reluctant to continue. Obviously, if she actively wants to continue the friendship then it may be reasonable to give her support and help in doing so without further damage. However, if she does not want to continue the friendship then she deserves support and help in *not* doing so. Look at it from the OP's daughter's perspective for a moment. This girl has bullied her and sapped her confidence under the guise of friendship. The OP's daughter has done a sterling job of dealing with this and putting it behind her. However, this has left her 'very wary' of getting involved in this friendship again - an extremely reasonable reaction. Issuing the other girl with an open invitation to the house would put a degree of pressure on the daughter to maintain this very dubious 'friendship' that I simply do not think it fair or appropriate to put on a nine-year-old. All the best, Sarah |
#46
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Friendship problem for my 9 year old
Banty wrote:
In article , Sarah Vaughan says... What Sarah said. Every word of it. Pay particular attention to the position that a "friendship" put upon a nine year old girl means for her. I would add that this person cannot take advantage of you without your permission. Dear Abby or Ann Landers used to say that. Jeff |
#47
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Friendship problem for my 9 year old
On Jun 3, 8:24 am, Sarah Vaughan wrote:
Piggybacking to answer two lots of points in one post: Chris wrote: On Jun 1, 12:26?pm, Vickie wrote: snip So, here I am. I really, really don't want to get involved anymore in this. My heart goes out to her and her children, but I really don't want to deal with this. When the calls come this summer for play dates, etc. should I keep up with the excuses or get a back-bone and just tell her when she gets her life back on track and help for her girls to then give me a call? Neither. Well, not unless you feel that this woman is someone you'd actually want to be friends with in the event that she gets her issues sorted out, and I'm not getting the impression that that was the case (though by all means stop me if I'm wrong). If you do not actively want a friendship with this woman then you are under no obligation whatsoever to have one, and should not hold the promise of one out as a carrot to persuade her to get her life sorted out. That's just another way of making her problems your problems and putting yourself under an obligation. So, if you don't want anything further to do with this woman - which is totally reasonable - then do not leave that door open either with excuses or with promises that she can call if she manages to do such-and-such. I really don't want anything to do with this family. Just worried about the girl (part of my personality, I guess). I feel very much that when the ***** hits the fan* that is when I am called upon. You can try being upfront about this: "I'm sorry, but I'm afraid this friendship isn't working out and I do not feel I can be involved in your life or your daughter's life any more. Goodbye." Don't feel up to that. If you don't feel up to doing that, or if you're worried that this might antagonise her to a degree that makes her dangerous, then try just being polite but brick-wall unhelpful every time she tries to ask you to do something. If she starts the emotional blackmail about how her daughter needs your daughter's friendship, just say "I'm sorry to hear that, but please be realistic; my daughter is nine years old and cannot sort out your daughter's problems for her. Maybe you should get your daughter some counselling to help her to deal with the situation." If she starts going on about her own problems, say "I'm sorry to hear that, and I hope you find the help you need. I have to go now. Goodbye." If she asks you for favours, say politely and firmly that you won't be able to do that, and DO NOT get into any further discussion on the matter. If she asks you why not, just repeat "I'm afraid it won't be possible." If this seems to be going round in circles, then go back to the I-have-to-go-goodbye line. DO NOT give her any excuses or reasons as to why you can't help out, because the inevitable message that that gives is that if only you didn't have to do X then you would have helped her out, and that only encourages her to call and ask again. If all her requests are met by a very polite brick wall, then it's hard for her to keep asking. DO NOT get angry or aggressive at any point. That'll only start a fight. And DO NOT get apologetic at any point, no matter how tempting it is. Getting apologetic gives her the message that you're doing something wrong by refusing to help her, and thus legitimises her behaviour. (The "I'm sorry" in the above examples is meant to indicate sympathy, not apology.) You need to speak in a tone that suggests you are calmly confident that you are within your rights in acting in this way. Since you're not currently that confident, you'll need to fake it. Try rehearsing possible speeches with your husband or a friend (preferably with someone who you know *is* very confident and would be able to deal with this sort of situation, because they'll be able to give you the best feedback on whether you're doing it right). I would have to rehearse. I am apologetic by nature and it probably would end up sounding like I was doing something wrong. I think I need an assertive training course. (You could earn a fortune if you taught it.) [...] I would also have a talk with my child about the reality of the situation to help her understand how different her friend has it. I do agree that it's worth having some kind of a talk with your daughter about this (which you may very well have done already). It sounds like a very difficult experience for her, and it would probably help her to be aware, if she isn't already, that this girl's behaviour is not a reflection on her but on the girl's own insecurities and difficult home life. She also needs to understand that she has handled a difficult situation extremely well and that, given the situation, her wariness about getting involved with this girl again is *totally reasonable*. Rather than giving her a list of things to do, I would just open this up with a comment about how this must all have been difficult for her and you've been impressed with how she's handled it, and encourage her to voice any concerns she has about the situation. Most definitely I have done that with my daughter. Then I would invite the girl over and have a talk with the both of them about how I know they haven't seen eye to eye and have had relationship problems, etc. I would try to let the friend know that while I know that she has hardships that being mean and passing along the frustration and anger she is experiencing toward her friend(s) is the surest way to lose a friend and it is okay and nothing to be embarrassed about to share that she is just having a bad day, week, etc. I would let her know that she would be welcome at my house anytime for a break from her reality as long as she could offer the same respect that she deserves and is not getting. The problem with this is that it puts the OP's daughter in a situation where there is pressure on her to continue a friendship that has been draining on her and that she is very understandably reluctant to continue. Obviously, if she actively wants to continue the friendship then it may be reasonable to give her support and help in doing so without further damage. However, if she does not want to continue the friendship then she deserves support and help in *not* doing so. Look at it from the OP's daughter's perspective for a moment. This girl has bullied her and sapped her confidence under the guise of friendship. The OP's daughter has done a sterling job of dealing with this and putting it behind her. However, this has left her 'very wary' of getting involved in this friendship again - an extremely reasonable reaction. Issuing the other girl with an open invitation to the house would put a degree of pressure on the daughter to maintain this very dubious 'friendship' that I simply do not think it fair or appropriate to put on a nine-year-old. My daughter has told me she just doesn't want to be friends with her anymore. She says she does a good job ignoring the taunts and looks the girl gives her. But when she actually comes around my daughter wanting her to play, my daughter tells me she gets nervous knots and waits for the inevitable *put downs* that comes her way. All the best, Sarah --http://www.goodenoughmummy.typepad.com "That which can be destroyed by the truth, should be" - P. C. Hodgell I am going to email this quote to a few people. Thanks for the response. Vickie |
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