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#701
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CS related licene suspension question...
"The Dave©" wrote in message ... Dave the wave wrote: My experience: My LLGB decided that because I once earned $X/week working as an independent contractor on a job that lasted 4 to 5 weeks, that I should be held to an earning capacity that was 52 x $X? (Never mind that unlike a fulltime employee I don't get vacation/personal paid leave or that I have to pay for my benefits and additional self-employment taxes.) I tried to explain this and other details (like this job was a explicitly temporary assignment that I may never get to do again, and that if they were to hire me fulltime it would not be for the same money) about being a independent contractor. My LLGB just looked at me like I was speaking Hebrew. Needless to say, my CS was calculated based on an income that I only wished I had been able to earn over the 3 years it was enforced. What does "LLGB" stand for? It gets better. My X lucks into this fab 2nd mortgage lending job and starts to make serious money. Is she happy then? Nope. Back to mediation we go. Now my CS is not only calculated on an income level I've NEVER achieved, but because the X is making more money the total CS goes significantly higher therefore I have to pay MUCH more CS????? To make matters worse she acts like I don't support the kids. She just bought a $150,000 townhome, but she told the LLGB that she couldn't afford to buy our son a pair of shoes or clothes. Explain this. Why would CS go up if she now makes more money? remainder snipped -- Always borrow money from a pessimist, he doesn't expect to be paid back. ~Author Unknown 1. LLGB = Low Level Government beaurecrat 2. In my state the total CS is calculated as a percentage of combined income. Then the total CS is multiplied by the ratio: (my salary)/(our combined salaries). Upon further reflection, I'm not sure if this is why my support went up. Since my CS rate is a percentage based on my salary to hers, provided the factor used to determine the total CS doesn't change much as you move up the pay scale, I think -mathematically speaking- the increase in CS due to her increased income would be offset by the decrease in my percentage of the total. I am going to get out my calculator and run some actual figures to see what the truth is. There were at least 2 mistakes on my CS order that I caught. My X's income was understated and my income potential was overstated. I informed my lawyer and her reply was that my X's income would be corrected, but I would have to file an appeal to get mine changed. I think it amounted to $20 a month in increased payments from me. Hardly worth the several hundred it would cost me to even file an appeal. My lawyer also said my chances of winning ANY appeal were very slim. The judges do not look favorably upon people trying to lower their CS. Another reason for not appealing is the LLGB could make up any reason she wanted for increasing my earnings potential. It was an arbitrary number to begin with. -- from Dave the wave ^^^^^^\________ |
#702
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CS related licene suspension question...
-- "Dusty" wrote in message ... "Pamela" wrote in message nk.net... "TeacherMama" wrote in message om... "Pamela" wrote in message thlink.net... [snip] Amusing......hmmmm. Because your ex seems to have dropped the ball, you would find it "amusing" for NCPs who have lost their jobs and fallen into arrears, or become ill and fallen into arrears, to have their licenses pulled. You know I never said that. And, then Dusty said: Indeed you did say that Pam. Here's what you wrote: "I never respond to this stuff, but you know, I don't think taking a person's license for failure to provide for his children is extreme." Holy Cripe. You either cannot read or cannot comprehend what you read. Let's take it slowly Statement 1 by Pamela "I never respond to this stuff, but you know, I don't think taking a person's license for failure to provide for his children is extreme." Read it. I'll wait. OK, let's take it apart and see if we can understand it. This is the sentence you utilized as proof that I said that I would, as posited by Teachermama: find it "amusing" for NCPs who have lost their jobs and fallen into arrears, or become ill and fallen into arrears, to have their licenses pulled. Please note that nowhere in this statement, that you utilized as proof of MT's accusation, is a reference to amusement related to the taking away of a NCP's license who had lost a job, fallen into arrears, or become ill. SEE? What I did say, and never said I did not say was that I did not think the taking away of a license of a PERSON who DID NOT PROVIDE for his children to be an extreme act. I stand by that statement. There are many ways to provide for one's children. Never did I say if a person did not pay exactly what the court ordered in $ should that person lose their license. Shall we go on? .. Dusty goes on: Only in the second sentence do you mention your X. So, it's impossible to equate that you where talking about your X in the first sentence because he's not even mentioned! Please see the statement you refer to below. And, what is your question? It doesn't relate, since we have already disproved your first comment. Statement 2 makes neither a case for or against the taking of licenses. Shall we move on? Statement 2 by Pamela I have an ex who has not paid child support for years, may see his daughter whenever he wants, makes a great income, and cheats and steals his way through life. Back to Dusty's rhetoric: And in the third sentence you state that you'd be amused to give him such a wake-up call.. "I have an ex who has not paid child support for years, may see his daughter whenever he wants, makes a great income, and cheats and steals his way through life. Taking his driver's license away seems a rather amusing way to wake him up. More I think about it, the more I like it." Statement 3 by Pamela "Taking his driver's license away seems a rather amusing way to wake him up. More I think about it, the more I like it:". Your absolutely correct here. Statement 3 says exactly what you say it says. That it seems rather an amusing way to wake MY ex up. It says nothing about my wanting or agreeing to take licenses away from, in Miss TeacherMama's accusation( and, her quote directly below this statement) and your agreement with that accusation, : NCPs who have lost their jobs and fallen into arrears, or become ill and fallen into arrears, to have their licenses pulled. Shall we move forward? Pamela responding to TM: Here is the interesting thing. You folks who have an issue with child support seem to want to put words in the mouths of other's. Now, that's pretty easy to do when the arguments are oral, but these are written, so how is it you think it makes sense to alter what a person says when what they said is right there to be read. READ IT AGAIN. Dusty SAYS: I did. I also found you to be at fault for attempting to change the use of proper sentence structure and for attempting to turn back time. Pam, you did say those things. Hell, you WROTE them. Nothing to discuss here, correct? We now are quite clear on exactly what I wrote, but just to help you along I'll repeat them: Statement 1 by Pamela "I never respond to this stuff, but you know, I don't think taking a person's license for failure to provide for his children is extreme". This statement says clearly that I do not think taking a person's license for failure to PROVIDE FOR his children is extreme. Nowhere does it say that I find it , and once again, here is your and Teacher Mama's accusation: "amusing" for NCPs who have lost their jobs and fallen into arrears, or become ill and fallen into arrears, to have their licenses pulled. Do you see that? If you, or TeacherMama, or anyone else, see anywhere in my statement the words - ill, arrears, lost, jobs, or fallen - then, well, all I can say is Gee, I am sorry for your comprehension issues. Onward: Pamela: I WAS SPEAKING SPECIFICALLY ABOUT HIM. Dusty says: No you where not - you pointed to your X -AFTER- making the statement "..I don't think taking a person's license for failure to provide for his children is extreme." After that point on you may have been speaking of him, but not in the very first line. Ok, by now it should be clear to you that statements 1, 2, and 3, the ones that you refer to specifically address this and prove you to be incorrect. Let's not belabor the truth. Any opposition to this would make you look silly, so I am sure you won't go there. That my dear, was a very broad generalization to all NCPs on your part. And because of that generalization, it can be argued that you lumped all NCP's in with your X. Therefore, they should all lose their DL and it amused you to think of such a thing happening. That is, of course, an extrapolation on your part. No where, at any time, did I say or infer what you are accusing me of. It's plain silly. It an attack with no merit. You must be related to John "Flip-flop" Kerry. First you did, then you didn't. "I voted for the $87 Billion, before I voted against it." Come on Pam, get with the program. First I didn't, then I didn't. But, that has been proven. Clearly. Continuing on: What I neglected to say was that while he can see her whenever he wants, he never bothers to take that option. But, back to you. Right below that you posted this in response. Ready? ok, here goes again: This is you responding: Amusing......hmmmm. Because your ex seems to have dropped the ball, you would find it "amusing" for NCPs who have lost their jobs and fallen into arrears, or become ill and fallen into arrears, to have their licenses pulled. Dusty takes his major leap: And now that we all know you where amused at the idea of NCPs loosing their drivers licenses Pam. Of course no one knows that. And, you also know it isn't true. Let's keep moving on this very boring and repetitive lane you have created: Pamela to TM: Now that what I said is clear and what you responded is clear, let me ask the question: why did you state I said something I never said. What I said was very clear. In fact, in another post I said exactly the opposite of what you accused me of saying. I said that a reason for not paying child support would be: PHYSICAL ILLNESS PREVENTING A PERSON FROM WORKING and/or MENTAL ILLNESS PREVENTING A PERSON FROM WORKING. But, let me repost that for you as well, since you seem to have a problem in attribution: Here was the question: What would be a reasonable excuse, in your opinion, for not paying? Pamela then Dusty responded: I asked first Then I responded: Ok. 1. Mental illness which prevented a person from working. 2. Physical illness which prevented a person from working. Dusty chimes in: Actually Pam, there's a bit you left out. Here's what you said in it's entirety: "1. Mental illness which prevented a person from working. 2. Physical illness which prevented a person from working. I can't think of anything else." Indeed, that is what I said. Keep scrolling. Pamela to TM: See that? So, I stated exactly the opposite of what you accused me of stating. So, why did you do that? Really. What were you attempting to do, other than make yourself look silly? Dusty said, in his most condescending way: Pam, Pammy, Pamela... You very clearly state that -only- a mental or physical illness would be grounds to forgive non-payment of CS. Because you where responding to my question of: "And when they can't pay, what then? Is it to be "To bad, so sad, you loose"?" I clearly did state 1 and 2. I never said I didn't state them. I also said I couldn't think of anything else. The question was "what would be a reasonable reason for not paying". That is what I consider a reasonable reason for not paying. The question was not what would be a reasonable reason for taking a driver's license. Stay on task, here. Dusty draws further conclusions with no basis in fact: And in answer to my questions you imply that any reason, other then an illness of some sort, places every NCP into the "to-bad, so-sad, you loose" category. Because, as you so eloquently state in your last line: "I can't think of anything else." I don't imply anything. You project meaning on to my words. What causes you to do that? If you didn't understand you could have simply asked. I couldn't think of anything else. That's reason for being nailed to a cross, called a bitch, a man-hater, and every other explicitive you guys have managed to dredge up? wow. [major snippage of Pam's attempted psycho-babble and lawyer-drivel] Jealous of my ability to communicate logically, huh? Pam, face it, you've been caught with you pants down. Again. Guess not. But, your effort was AMUSING. Pamela |
#703
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CS related licene suspension question...
-- "Dusty" wrote in message ... "Pamela" wrote in message nk.net... "TeacherMama" wrote in message om... "Pamela" wrote in message thlink.net... [snip] Amusing......hmmmm. Because your ex seems to have dropped the ball, you would find it "amusing" for NCPs who have lost their jobs and fallen into arrears, or become ill and fallen into arrears, to have their licenses pulled. You know I never said that. And, then Dusty said: Indeed you did say that Pam. Here's what you wrote: "I never respond to this stuff, but you know, I don't think taking a person's license for failure to provide for his children is extreme." Holy Cripe. You either cannot read or cannot comprehend what you read. Let's take it slowly Statement 1 by Pamela "I never respond to this stuff, but you know, I don't think taking a person's license for failure to provide for his children is extreme." Read it. I'll wait. OK, let's take it apart and see if we can understand it. This is the sentence you utilized as proof that I said that I would, as posited by Teachermama: find it "amusing" for NCPs who have lost their jobs and fallen into arrears, or become ill and fallen into arrears, to have their licenses pulled. Please note that nowhere in this statement, that you utilized as proof of MT's accusation, is a reference to amusement related to the taking away of a NCP's license who had lost a job, fallen into arrears, or become ill. SEE? What I did say, and never said I did not say was that I did not think the taking away of a license of a PERSON who DID NOT PROVIDE for his children to be an extreme act. I stand by that statement. There are many ways to provide for one's children. Never did I say if a person did not pay exactly what the court ordered in $ should that person lose their license. Shall we go on? .. Dusty goes on: Only in the second sentence do you mention your X. So, it's impossible to equate that you where talking about your X in the first sentence because he's not even mentioned! Please see the statement you refer to below. And, what is your question? It doesn't relate, since we have already disproved your first comment. Statement 2 makes neither a case for or against the taking of licenses. Shall we move on? Statement 2 by Pamela I have an ex who has not paid child support for years, may see his daughter whenever he wants, makes a great income, and cheats and steals his way through life. Back to Dusty's rhetoric: And in the third sentence you state that you'd be amused to give him such a wake-up call.. "I have an ex who has not paid child support for years, may see his daughter whenever he wants, makes a great income, and cheats and steals his way through life. Taking his driver's license away seems a rather amusing way to wake him up. More I think about it, the more I like it." Statement 3 by Pamela "Taking his driver's license away seems a rather amusing way to wake him up. More I think about it, the more I like it:". Your absolutely correct here. Statement 3 says exactly what you say it says. That it seems rather an amusing way to wake MY ex up. It says nothing about my wanting or agreeing to take licenses away from, in Miss TeacherMama's accusation( and, her quote directly below this statement) and your agreement with that accusation, : NCPs who have lost their jobs and fallen into arrears, or become ill and fallen into arrears, to have their licenses pulled. Shall we move forward? Pamela responding to TM: Here is the interesting thing. You folks who have an issue with child support seem to want to put words in the mouths of other's. Now, that's pretty easy to do when the arguments are oral, but these are written, so how is it you think it makes sense to alter what a person says when what they said is right there to be read. READ IT AGAIN. Dusty SAYS: I did. I also found you to be at fault for attempting to change the use of proper sentence structure and for attempting to turn back time. Pam, you did say those things. Hell, you WROTE them. Nothing to discuss here, correct? We now are quite clear on exactly what I wrote, but just to help you along I'll repeat them: Statement 1 by Pamela "I never respond to this stuff, but you know, I don't think taking a person's license for failure to provide for his children is extreme". This statement says clearly that I do not think taking a person's license for failure to PROVIDE FOR his children is extreme. Nowhere does it say that I find it , and once again, here is your and Teacher Mama's accusation: "amusing" for NCPs who have lost their jobs and fallen into arrears, or become ill and fallen into arrears, to have their licenses pulled. Do you see that? If you, or TeacherMama, or anyone else, see anywhere in my statement the words - ill, arrears, lost, jobs, or fallen - then, well, all I can say is Gee, I am sorry for your comprehension issues. Onward: Pamela: I WAS SPEAKING SPECIFICALLY ABOUT HIM. Dusty says: No you where not - you pointed to your X -AFTER- making the statement "..I don't think taking a person's license for failure to provide for his children is extreme." After that point on you may have been speaking of him, but not in the very first line. Ok, by now it should be clear to you that statements 1, 2, and 3, the ones that you refer to specifically address this and prove you to be incorrect. Let's not belabor the truth. Any opposition to this would make you look silly, so I am sure you won't go there. That my dear, was a very broad generalization to all NCPs on your part. And because of that generalization, it can be argued that you lumped all NCP's in with your X. Therefore, they should all lose their DL and it amused you to think of such a thing happening. That is, of course, an extrapolation on your part. No where, at any time, did I say or infer what you are accusing me of. It's plain silly. It an attack with no merit. You must be related to John "Flip-flop" Kerry. First you did, then you didn't. "I voted for the $87 Billion, before I voted against it." Come on Pam, get with the program. First I didn't, then I didn't. But, that has been proven. Clearly. Continuing on: What I neglected to say was that while he can see her whenever he wants, he never bothers to take that option. But, back to you. Right below that you posted this in response. Ready? ok, here goes again: This is you responding: Amusing......hmmmm. Because your ex seems to have dropped the ball, you would find it "amusing" for NCPs who have lost their jobs and fallen into arrears, or become ill and fallen into arrears, to have their licenses pulled. Dusty takes his major leap: And now that we all know you where amused at the idea of NCPs loosing their drivers licenses Pam. Of course no one knows that. And, you also know it isn't true. Let's keep moving on this very boring and repetitive lane you have created: Pamela to TM: Now that what I said is clear and what you responded is clear, let me ask the question: why did you state I said something I never said. What I said was very clear. In fact, in another post I said exactly the opposite of what you accused me of saying. I said that a reason for not paying child support would be: PHYSICAL ILLNESS PREVENTING A PERSON FROM WORKING and/or MENTAL ILLNESS PREVENTING A PERSON FROM WORKING. But, let me repost that for you as well, since you seem to have a problem in attribution: Here was the question: What would be a reasonable excuse, in your opinion, for not paying? Pamela then Dusty responded: I asked first Then I responded: Ok. 1. Mental illness which prevented a person from working. 2. Physical illness which prevented a person from working. Dusty chimes in: Actually Pam, there's a bit you left out. Here's what you said in it's entirety: "1. Mental illness which prevented a person from working. 2. Physical illness which prevented a person from working. I can't think of anything else." Indeed, that is what I said. Keep scrolling. Pamela to TM: See that? So, I stated exactly the opposite of what you accused me of stating. So, why did you do that? Really. What were you attempting to do, other than make yourself look silly? Dusty said, in his most condescending way: Pam, Pammy, Pamela... You very clearly state that -only- a mental or physical illness would be grounds to forgive non-payment of CS. Because you where responding to my question of: "And when they can't pay, what then? Is it to be "To bad, so sad, you loose"?" I clearly did state 1 and 2. I never said I didn't state them. I also said I couldn't think of anything else. The question was "what would be a reasonable reason for not paying". That is what I consider a reasonable reason for not paying. The question was not what would be a reasonable reason for taking a driver's license. Stay on task, here. Dusty draws further conclusions with no basis in fact: And in answer to my questions you imply that any reason, other then an illness of some sort, places every NCP into the "to-bad, so-sad, you loose" category. Because, as you so eloquently state in your last line: "I can't think of anything else." I don't imply anything. You project meaning on to my words. What causes you to do that? If you didn't understand you could have simply asked. I couldn't think of anything else. That's reason for being nailed to a cross, called a bitch, a man-hater, and every other explicitive you guys have managed to dredge up? wow. [major snippage of Pam's attempted psycho-babble and lawyer-drivel] Jealous of my ability to communicate logically, huh? Pam, face it, you've been caught with you pants down. Again. Guess not. But, your effort was AMUSING. Pamela |
#704
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CS related licene suspension question...
-- "Dusty" wrote in message ... "Pamela" wrote in message nk.net... "TeacherMama" wrote in message om... "Pamela" wrote in message thlink.net... [snip] Amusing......hmmmm. Because your ex seems to have dropped the ball, you would find it "amusing" for NCPs who have lost their jobs and fallen into arrears, or become ill and fallen into arrears, to have their licenses pulled. You know I never said that. And, then Dusty said: Indeed you did say that Pam. Here's what you wrote: "I never respond to this stuff, but you know, I don't think taking a person's license for failure to provide for his children is extreme." Holy Cripe. You either cannot read or cannot comprehend what you read. Let's take it slowly Statement 1 by Pamela "I never respond to this stuff, but you know, I don't think taking a person's license for failure to provide for his children is extreme." Read it. I'll wait. OK, let's take it apart and see if we can understand it. This is the sentence you utilized as proof that I said that I would, as posited by Teachermama: find it "amusing" for NCPs who have lost their jobs and fallen into arrears, or become ill and fallen into arrears, to have their licenses pulled. Please note that nowhere in this statement, that you utilized as proof of MT's accusation, is a reference to amusement related to the taking away of a NCP's license who had lost a job, fallen into arrears, or become ill. SEE? What I did say, and never said I did not say was that I did not think the taking away of a license of a PERSON who DID NOT PROVIDE for his children to be an extreme act. I stand by that statement. There are many ways to provide for one's children. Never did I say if a person did not pay exactly what the court ordered in $ should that person lose their license. Shall we go on? .. Dusty goes on: Only in the second sentence do you mention your X. So, it's impossible to equate that you where talking about your X in the first sentence because he's not even mentioned! Please see the statement you refer to below. And, what is your question? It doesn't relate, since we have already disproved your first comment. Statement 2 makes neither a case for or against the taking of licenses. Shall we move on? Statement 2 by Pamela I have an ex who has not paid child support for years, may see his daughter whenever he wants, makes a great income, and cheats and steals his way through life. Back to Dusty's rhetoric: And in the third sentence you state that you'd be amused to give him such a wake-up call.. "I have an ex who has not paid child support for years, may see his daughter whenever he wants, makes a great income, and cheats and steals his way through life. Taking his driver's license away seems a rather amusing way to wake him up. More I think about it, the more I like it." Statement 3 by Pamela "Taking his driver's license away seems a rather amusing way to wake him up. More I think about it, the more I like it:". Your absolutely correct here. Statement 3 says exactly what you say it says. That it seems rather an amusing way to wake MY ex up. It says nothing about my wanting or agreeing to take licenses away from, in Miss TeacherMama's accusation( and, her quote directly below this statement) and your agreement with that accusation, : NCPs who have lost their jobs and fallen into arrears, or become ill and fallen into arrears, to have their licenses pulled. Shall we move forward? Pamela responding to TM: Here is the interesting thing. You folks who have an issue with child support seem to want to put words in the mouths of other's. Now, that's pretty easy to do when the arguments are oral, but these are written, so how is it you think it makes sense to alter what a person says when what they said is right there to be read. READ IT AGAIN. Dusty SAYS: I did. I also found you to be at fault for attempting to change the use of proper sentence structure and for attempting to turn back time. Pam, you did say those things. Hell, you WROTE them. Nothing to discuss here, correct? We now are quite clear on exactly what I wrote, but just to help you along I'll repeat them: Statement 1 by Pamela "I never respond to this stuff, but you know, I don't think taking a person's license for failure to provide for his children is extreme". This statement says clearly that I do not think taking a person's license for failure to PROVIDE FOR his children is extreme. Nowhere does it say that I find it , and once again, here is your and Teacher Mama's accusation: "amusing" for NCPs who have lost their jobs and fallen into arrears, or become ill and fallen into arrears, to have their licenses pulled. Do you see that? If you, or TeacherMama, or anyone else, see anywhere in my statement the words - ill, arrears, lost, jobs, or fallen - then, well, all I can say is Gee, I am sorry for your comprehension issues. Onward: Pamela: I WAS SPEAKING SPECIFICALLY ABOUT HIM. Dusty says: No you where not - you pointed to your X -AFTER- making the statement "..I don't think taking a person's license for failure to provide for his children is extreme." After that point on you may have been speaking of him, but not in the very first line. Ok, by now it should be clear to you that statements 1, 2, and 3, the ones that you refer to specifically address this and prove you to be incorrect. Let's not belabor the truth. Any opposition to this would make you look silly, so I am sure you won't go there. That my dear, was a very broad generalization to all NCPs on your part. And because of that generalization, it can be argued that you lumped all NCP's in with your X. Therefore, they should all lose their DL and it amused you to think of such a thing happening. That is, of course, an extrapolation on your part. No where, at any time, did I say or infer what you are accusing me of. It's plain silly. It an attack with no merit. You must be related to John "Flip-flop" Kerry. First you did, then you didn't. "I voted for the $87 Billion, before I voted against it." Come on Pam, get with the program. First I didn't, then I didn't. But, that has been proven. Clearly. Continuing on: What I neglected to say was that while he can see her whenever he wants, he never bothers to take that option. But, back to you. Right below that you posted this in response. Ready? ok, here goes again: This is you responding: Amusing......hmmmm. Because your ex seems to have dropped the ball, you would find it "amusing" for NCPs who have lost their jobs and fallen into arrears, or become ill and fallen into arrears, to have their licenses pulled. Dusty takes his major leap: And now that we all know you where amused at the idea of NCPs loosing their drivers licenses Pam. Of course no one knows that. And, you also know it isn't true. Let's keep moving on this very boring and repetitive lane you have created: Pamela to TM: Now that what I said is clear and what you responded is clear, let me ask the question: why did you state I said something I never said. What I said was very clear. In fact, in another post I said exactly the opposite of what you accused me of saying. I said that a reason for not paying child support would be: PHYSICAL ILLNESS PREVENTING A PERSON FROM WORKING and/or MENTAL ILLNESS PREVENTING A PERSON FROM WORKING. But, let me repost that for you as well, since you seem to have a problem in attribution: Here was the question: What would be a reasonable excuse, in your opinion, for not paying? Pamela then Dusty responded: I asked first Then I responded: Ok. 1. Mental illness which prevented a person from working. 2. Physical illness which prevented a person from working. Dusty chimes in: Actually Pam, there's a bit you left out. Here's what you said in it's entirety: "1. Mental illness which prevented a person from working. 2. Physical illness which prevented a person from working. I can't think of anything else." Indeed, that is what I said. Keep scrolling. Pamela to TM: See that? So, I stated exactly the opposite of what you accused me of stating. So, why did you do that? Really. What were you attempting to do, other than make yourself look silly? Dusty said, in his most condescending way: Pam, Pammy, Pamela... You very clearly state that -only- a mental or physical illness would be grounds to forgive non-payment of CS. Because you where responding to my question of: "And when they can't pay, what then? Is it to be "To bad, so sad, you loose"?" I clearly did state 1 and 2. I never said I didn't state them. I also said I couldn't think of anything else. The question was "what would be a reasonable reason for not paying". That is what I consider a reasonable reason for not paying. The question was not what would be a reasonable reason for taking a driver's license. Stay on task, here. Dusty draws further conclusions with no basis in fact: And in answer to my questions you imply that any reason, other then an illness of some sort, places every NCP into the "to-bad, so-sad, you loose" category. Because, as you so eloquently state in your last line: "I can't think of anything else." I don't imply anything. You project meaning on to my words. What causes you to do that? If you didn't understand you could have simply asked. I couldn't think of anything else. That's reason for being nailed to a cross, called a bitch, a man-hater, and every other explicitive you guys have managed to dredge up? wow. [major snippage of Pam's attempted psycho-babble and lawyer-drivel] Jealous of my ability to communicate logically, huh? Pam, face it, you've been caught with you pants down. Again. Guess not. But, your effort was AMUSING. Pamela |
#705
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CS related licene suspension question...
-- "Dusty" wrote in message ... "Pamela" wrote in message nk.net... "TeacherMama" wrote in message om... "Pamela" wrote in message thlink.net... [snip] Amusing......hmmmm. Because your ex seems to have dropped the ball, you would find it "amusing" for NCPs who have lost their jobs and fallen into arrears, or become ill and fallen into arrears, to have their licenses pulled. You know I never said that. And, then Dusty said: Indeed you did say that Pam. Here's what you wrote: "I never respond to this stuff, but you know, I don't think taking a person's license for failure to provide for his children is extreme." Holy Cripe. You either cannot read or cannot comprehend what you read. Let's take it slowly Statement 1 by Pamela "I never respond to this stuff, but you know, I don't think taking a person's license for failure to provide for his children is extreme." Read it. I'll wait. OK, let's take it apart and see if we can understand it. This is the sentence you utilized as proof that I said that I would, as posited by Teachermama: find it "amusing" for NCPs who have lost their jobs and fallen into arrears, or become ill and fallen into arrears, to have their licenses pulled. Please note that nowhere in this statement, that you utilized as proof of MT's accusation, is a reference to amusement related to the taking away of a NCP's license who had lost a job, fallen into arrears, or become ill. SEE? What I did say, and never said I did not say was that I did not think the taking away of a license of a PERSON who DID NOT PROVIDE for his children to be an extreme act. I stand by that statement. There are many ways to provide for one's children. Never did I say if a person did not pay exactly what the court ordered in $ should that person lose their license. Shall we go on? .. Dusty goes on: Only in the second sentence do you mention your X. So, it's impossible to equate that you where talking about your X in the first sentence because he's not even mentioned! Please see the statement you refer to below. And, what is your question? It doesn't relate, since we have already disproved your first comment. Statement 2 makes neither a case for or against the taking of licenses. Shall we move on? Statement 2 by Pamela I have an ex who has not paid child support for years, may see his daughter whenever he wants, makes a great income, and cheats and steals his way through life. Back to Dusty's rhetoric: And in the third sentence you state that you'd be amused to give him such a wake-up call.. "I have an ex who has not paid child support for years, may see his daughter whenever he wants, makes a great income, and cheats and steals his way through life. Taking his driver's license away seems a rather amusing way to wake him up. More I think about it, the more I like it." Statement 3 by Pamela "Taking his driver's license away seems a rather amusing way to wake him up. More I think about it, the more I like it:". Your absolutely correct here. Statement 3 says exactly what you say it says. That it seems rather an amusing way to wake MY ex up. It says nothing about my wanting or agreeing to take licenses away from, in Miss TeacherMama's accusation( and, her quote directly below this statement) and your agreement with that accusation, : NCPs who have lost their jobs and fallen into arrears, or become ill and fallen into arrears, to have their licenses pulled. Shall we move forward? Pamela responding to TM: Here is the interesting thing. You folks who have an issue with child support seem to want to put words in the mouths of other's. Now, that's pretty easy to do when the arguments are oral, but these are written, so how is it you think it makes sense to alter what a person says when what they said is right there to be read. READ IT AGAIN. Dusty SAYS: I did. I also found you to be at fault for attempting to change the use of proper sentence structure and for attempting to turn back time. Pam, you did say those things. Hell, you WROTE them. Nothing to discuss here, correct? We now are quite clear on exactly what I wrote, but just to help you along I'll repeat them: Statement 1 by Pamela "I never respond to this stuff, but you know, I don't think taking a person's license for failure to provide for his children is extreme". This statement says clearly that I do not think taking a person's license for failure to PROVIDE FOR his children is extreme. Nowhere does it say that I find it , and once again, here is your and Teacher Mama's accusation: "amusing" for NCPs who have lost their jobs and fallen into arrears, or become ill and fallen into arrears, to have their licenses pulled. Do you see that? If you, or TeacherMama, or anyone else, see anywhere in my statement the words - ill, arrears, lost, jobs, or fallen - then, well, all I can say is Gee, I am sorry for your comprehension issues. Onward: Pamela: I WAS SPEAKING SPECIFICALLY ABOUT HIM. Dusty says: No you where not - you pointed to your X -AFTER- making the statement "..I don't think taking a person's license for failure to provide for his children is extreme." After that point on you may have been speaking of him, but not in the very first line. Ok, by now it should be clear to you that statements 1, 2, and 3, the ones that you refer to specifically address this and prove you to be incorrect. Let's not belabor the truth. Any opposition to this would make you look silly, so I am sure you won't go there. That my dear, was a very broad generalization to all NCPs on your part. And because of that generalization, it can be argued that you lumped all NCP's in with your X. Therefore, they should all lose their DL and it amused you to think of such a thing happening. That is, of course, an extrapolation on your part. No where, at any time, did I say or infer what you are accusing me of. It's plain silly. It an attack with no merit. You must be related to John "Flip-flop" Kerry. First you did, then you didn't. "I voted for the $87 Billion, before I voted against it." Come on Pam, get with the program. First I didn't, then I didn't. But, that has been proven. Clearly. Continuing on: What I neglected to say was that while he can see her whenever he wants, he never bothers to take that option. But, back to you. Right below that you posted this in response. Ready? ok, here goes again: This is you responding: Amusing......hmmmm. Because your ex seems to have dropped the ball, you would find it "amusing" for NCPs who have lost their jobs and fallen into arrears, or become ill and fallen into arrears, to have their licenses pulled. Dusty takes his major leap: And now that we all know you where amused at the idea of NCPs loosing their drivers licenses Pam. Of course no one knows that. And, you also know it isn't true. Let's keep moving on this very boring and repetitive lane you have created: Pamela to TM: Now that what I said is clear and what you responded is clear, let me ask the question: why did you state I said something I never said. What I said was very clear. In fact, in another post I said exactly the opposite of what you accused me of saying. I said that a reason for not paying child support would be: PHYSICAL ILLNESS PREVENTING A PERSON FROM WORKING and/or MENTAL ILLNESS PREVENTING A PERSON FROM WORKING. But, let me repost that for you as well, since you seem to have a problem in attribution: Here was the question: What would be a reasonable excuse, in your opinion, for not paying? Pamela then Dusty responded: I asked first Then I responded: Ok. 1. Mental illness which prevented a person from working. 2. Physical illness which prevented a person from working. Dusty chimes in: Actually Pam, there's a bit you left out. Here's what you said in it's entirety: "1. Mental illness which prevented a person from working. 2. Physical illness which prevented a person from working. I can't think of anything else." Indeed, that is what I said. Keep scrolling. Pamela to TM: See that? So, I stated exactly the opposite of what you accused me of stating. So, why did you do that? Really. What were you attempting to do, other than make yourself look silly? Dusty said, in his most condescending way: Pam, Pammy, Pamela... You very clearly state that -only- a mental or physical illness would be grounds to forgive non-payment of CS. Because you where responding to my question of: "And when they can't pay, what then? Is it to be "To bad, so sad, you loose"?" I clearly did state 1 and 2. I never said I didn't state them. I also said I couldn't think of anything else. The question was "what would be a reasonable reason for not paying". That is what I consider a reasonable reason for not paying. The question was not what would be a reasonable reason for taking a driver's license. Stay on task, here. Dusty draws further conclusions with no basis in fact: And in answer to my questions you imply that any reason, other then an illness of some sort, places every NCP into the "to-bad, so-sad, you loose" category. Because, as you so eloquently state in your last line: "I can't think of anything else." I don't imply anything. You project meaning on to my words. What causes you to do that? If you didn't understand you could have simply asked. I couldn't think of anything else. That's reason for being nailed to a cross, called a bitch, a man-hater, and every other explicitive you guys have managed to dredge up? wow. [major snippage of Pam's attempted psycho-babble and lawyer-drivel] Jealous of my ability to communicate logically, huh? Pam, face it, you've been caught with you pants down. Again. Guess not. But, your effort was AMUSING. Pamela |
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CS related licene suspension question...
"kyfunguy" wrote in message ... "Mel Gamble" wrote in message ... ??? "two or three jobs"??? kyfunguy wrote: So if a person under employed of out of work does that means your kids don't have to eat ?? I have been both under/un employed at different times while raising my kids and I still had to find jobs that paid crap or were awful so the kids could survive decently IMO its called a parental responsibility. I do not understand why this is a hard concept to grasp. Pamela I don't understand Dusty's argument either.... If I suddenly lost my job... I'd do what it took to keep my CS payments going.. even if that took two or three jobs, until I found comparable work. Or until you died from working 24 hours/day. You are stupid. Mel Gamble Mr. Gamble.... I don't know about you....but I was brought up with the belief that children, until they reach the age of 18, are to be supported by their parents. Parents are SUPPOSED to sacrifice for the needs of their children. A little story --- my grandmother on my mother's side had 8 children. In the midst of the Great Depression, her husband suddenly died of tuberculosis. Now, here was a 30 - something woman, with 8 kids, who never had anything more then an 8th grade education... found herself having to find the means to support her family. Although she was a very religious woman, and absolutely hated alcohol, the only job she could get was at the local distillery, gluing on the bottle labels. She worked 10 hour days; took in additional laundry on the side for extra money; managed to feed / clothe / raise 8 children in the worst economic times in this countries history. All without ever complaining. If my grandmother didn't make the sacrifices necessary to keep her family alive, I might not even be here today. I can only hope to think if I were ever faced with the same situation that my grandmother was... that I would have the same fortitude and strength that she did. I mean no disrespect to your grandmother, because what she did was absolutely heroic. Any single parent deserves special credit for keeping their train on the track. However, and this is where the problem really lies, she didn't haven't the state standing over her saying if you don't spend $1500/month solely on your children (this doesn't include any living expenses -like rent, car payment, utilities, etc that she needs) we will sieze your bank accounts, take any tax refund you might have coming, and/or put you in jail. If money was tight, and I'm sure it was more often than not, everybody pulled together and sucked it up. No one became a criminal or had to incur legal expenses because the state didn't receive an arbitrary amount of money that month. Here's a little story that really describes what it looks like from a NCP's perspective. Unknown to me, the state took money out of my unemployment check when I was laid off just after I moved out. I kept paying the full amount. I was eventually over a month adhead in my payments. I never recieved anything from the state clueing me into this fact. Once I found this out, about a year later, I adjusted my payment schedule to correct this. A few months later, out of the blue, I get this legal document from the state saying I was behind in the amount of $11.64. The letter threatened to take any tax refund I might have coming as well as some other tactics I don't care to remember, if I didn't pay this amount immediately. The crazy thing is I was paying exactly what I was supposed to be paying. I don't even know where this $11.64 came from. So after being several hundred dollars ahead for about a year they decide they need to bring to bare the full weight of the law against me for ALLEDGEDLY being behind $11.64. (I added the "alledgedly" part. There was no doubt in their minds that I was behind.) As a side note -- when my divorce was final, I was working full time, and my ex hadn't had a steady, full-time job, for years. As such, the burden of CS was place heavily on me (it was about a 80/20 split for financial responsibility). Since that time, my ex now works full time... and makes a reasonable income. Theoretically, now that she's had full time employment for several months, I could go back to court and have the CS re-figured based upon her ability to contribute more. But I won't. Why..? Because my kids are even better off with my CS and my ex's good income... and that's just fine with me. |
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CS related licene suspension question...
"kyfunguy" wrote in message ... "Mel Gamble" wrote in message ... ??? "two or three jobs"??? kyfunguy wrote: So if a person under employed of out of work does that means your kids don't have to eat ?? I have been both under/un employed at different times while raising my kids and I still had to find jobs that paid crap or were awful so the kids could survive decently IMO its called a parental responsibility. I do not understand why this is a hard concept to grasp. Pamela I don't understand Dusty's argument either.... If I suddenly lost my job... I'd do what it took to keep my CS payments going.. even if that took two or three jobs, until I found comparable work. Or until you died from working 24 hours/day. You are stupid. Mel Gamble Mr. Gamble.... I don't know about you....but I was brought up with the belief that children, until they reach the age of 18, are to be supported by their parents. Parents are SUPPOSED to sacrifice for the needs of their children. A little story --- my grandmother on my mother's side had 8 children. In the midst of the Great Depression, her husband suddenly died of tuberculosis. Now, here was a 30 - something woman, with 8 kids, who never had anything more then an 8th grade education... found herself having to find the means to support her family. Although she was a very religious woman, and absolutely hated alcohol, the only job she could get was at the local distillery, gluing on the bottle labels. She worked 10 hour days; took in additional laundry on the side for extra money; managed to feed / clothe / raise 8 children in the worst economic times in this countries history. All without ever complaining. If my grandmother didn't make the sacrifices necessary to keep her family alive, I might not even be here today. I can only hope to think if I were ever faced with the same situation that my grandmother was... that I would have the same fortitude and strength that she did. I mean no disrespect to your grandmother, because what she did was absolutely heroic. Any single parent deserves special credit for keeping their train on the track. However, and this is where the problem really lies, she didn't haven't the state standing over her saying if you don't spend $1500/month solely on your children (this doesn't include any living expenses -like rent, car payment, utilities, etc that she needs) we will sieze your bank accounts, take any tax refund you might have coming, and/or put you in jail. If money was tight, and I'm sure it was more often than not, everybody pulled together and sucked it up. No one became a criminal or had to incur legal expenses because the state didn't receive an arbitrary amount of money that month. Here's a little story that really describes what it looks like from a NCP's perspective. Unknown to me, the state took money out of my unemployment check when I was laid off just after I moved out. I kept paying the full amount. I was eventually over a month adhead in my payments. I never recieved anything from the state clueing me into this fact. Once I found this out, about a year later, I adjusted my payment schedule to correct this. A few months later, out of the blue, I get this legal document from the state saying I was behind in the amount of $11.64. The letter threatened to take any tax refund I might have coming as well as some other tactics I don't care to remember, if I didn't pay this amount immediately. The crazy thing is I was paying exactly what I was supposed to be paying. I don't even know where this $11.64 came from. So after being several hundred dollars ahead for about a year they decide they need to bring to bare the full weight of the law against me for ALLEDGEDLY being behind $11.64. (I added the "alledgedly" part. There was no doubt in their minds that I was behind.) As a side note -- when my divorce was final, I was working full time, and my ex hadn't had a steady, full-time job, for years. As such, the burden of CS was place heavily on me (it was about a 80/20 split for financial responsibility). Since that time, my ex now works full time... and makes a reasonable income. Theoretically, now that she's had full time employment for several months, I could go back to court and have the CS re-figured based upon her ability to contribute more. But I won't. Why..? Because my kids are even better off with my CS and my ex's good income... and that's just fine with me. |
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CS related licene suspension question...
"kyfunguy" wrote in message ... "Mel Gamble" wrote in message ... ??? "two or three jobs"??? kyfunguy wrote: So if a person under employed of out of work does that means your kids don't have to eat ?? I have been both under/un employed at different times while raising my kids and I still had to find jobs that paid crap or were awful so the kids could survive decently IMO its called a parental responsibility. I do not understand why this is a hard concept to grasp. Pamela I don't understand Dusty's argument either.... If I suddenly lost my job... I'd do what it took to keep my CS payments going.. even if that took two or three jobs, until I found comparable work. Or until you died from working 24 hours/day. You are stupid. Mel Gamble Mr. Gamble.... I don't know about you....but I was brought up with the belief that children, until they reach the age of 18, are to be supported by their parents. Parents are SUPPOSED to sacrifice for the needs of their children. A little story --- my grandmother on my mother's side had 8 children. In the midst of the Great Depression, her husband suddenly died of tuberculosis. Now, here was a 30 - something woman, with 8 kids, who never had anything more then an 8th grade education... found herself having to find the means to support her family. Although she was a very religious woman, and absolutely hated alcohol, the only job she could get was at the local distillery, gluing on the bottle labels. She worked 10 hour days; took in additional laundry on the side for extra money; managed to feed / clothe / raise 8 children in the worst economic times in this countries history. All without ever complaining. If my grandmother didn't make the sacrifices necessary to keep her family alive, I might not even be here today. I can only hope to think if I were ever faced with the same situation that my grandmother was... that I would have the same fortitude and strength that she did. I mean no disrespect to your grandmother, because what she did was absolutely heroic. Any single parent deserves special credit for keeping their train on the track. However, and this is where the problem really lies, she didn't haven't the state standing over her saying if you don't spend $1500/month solely on your children (this doesn't include any living expenses -like rent, car payment, utilities, etc that she needs) we will sieze your bank accounts, take any tax refund you might have coming, and/or put you in jail. If money was tight, and I'm sure it was more often than not, everybody pulled together and sucked it up. No one became a criminal or had to incur legal expenses because the state didn't receive an arbitrary amount of money that month. Here's a little story that really describes what it looks like from a NCP's perspective. Unknown to me, the state took money out of my unemployment check when I was laid off just after I moved out. I kept paying the full amount. I was eventually over a month adhead in my payments. I never recieved anything from the state clueing me into this fact. Once I found this out, about a year later, I adjusted my payment schedule to correct this. A few months later, out of the blue, I get this legal document from the state saying I was behind in the amount of $11.64. The letter threatened to take any tax refund I might have coming as well as some other tactics I don't care to remember, if I didn't pay this amount immediately. The crazy thing is I was paying exactly what I was supposed to be paying. I don't even know where this $11.64 came from. So after being several hundred dollars ahead for about a year they decide they need to bring to bare the full weight of the law against me for ALLEDGEDLY being behind $11.64. (I added the "alledgedly" part. There was no doubt in their minds that I was behind.) As a side note -- when my divorce was final, I was working full time, and my ex hadn't had a steady, full-time job, for years. As such, the burden of CS was place heavily on me (it was about a 80/20 split for financial responsibility). Since that time, my ex now works full time... and makes a reasonable income. Theoretically, now that she's had full time employment for several months, I could go back to court and have the CS re-figured based upon her ability to contribute more. But I won't. Why..? Because my kids are even better off with my CS and my ex's good income... and that's just fine with me. |
#709
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CS related licene suspension question...
"kyfunguy" wrote in message ... "Mel Gamble" wrote in message ... ??? "two or three jobs"??? kyfunguy wrote: So if a person under employed of out of work does that means your kids don't have to eat ?? I have been both under/un employed at different times while raising my kids and I still had to find jobs that paid crap or were awful so the kids could survive decently IMO its called a parental responsibility. I do not understand why this is a hard concept to grasp. Pamela I don't understand Dusty's argument either.... If I suddenly lost my job... I'd do what it took to keep my CS payments going.. even if that took two or three jobs, until I found comparable work. Or until you died from working 24 hours/day. You are stupid. Mel Gamble Mr. Gamble.... I don't know about you....but I was brought up with the belief that children, until they reach the age of 18, are to be supported by their parents. Parents are SUPPOSED to sacrifice for the needs of their children. A little story --- my grandmother on my mother's side had 8 children. In the midst of the Great Depression, her husband suddenly died of tuberculosis. Now, here was a 30 - something woman, with 8 kids, who never had anything more then an 8th grade education... found herself having to find the means to support her family. Although she was a very religious woman, and absolutely hated alcohol, the only job she could get was at the local distillery, gluing on the bottle labels. She worked 10 hour days; took in additional laundry on the side for extra money; managed to feed / clothe / raise 8 children in the worst economic times in this countries history. All without ever complaining. If my grandmother didn't make the sacrifices necessary to keep her family alive, I might not even be here today. I can only hope to think if I were ever faced with the same situation that my grandmother was... that I would have the same fortitude and strength that she did. I mean no disrespect to your grandmother, because what she did was absolutely heroic. Any single parent deserves special credit for keeping their train on the track. However, and this is where the problem really lies, she didn't haven't the state standing over her saying if you don't spend $1500/month solely on your children (this doesn't include any living expenses -like rent, car payment, utilities, etc that she needs) we will sieze your bank accounts, take any tax refund you might have coming, and/or put you in jail. If money was tight, and I'm sure it was more often than not, everybody pulled together and sucked it up. No one became a criminal or had to incur legal expenses because the state didn't receive an arbitrary amount of money that month. Here's a little story that really describes what it looks like from a NCP's perspective. Unknown to me, the state took money out of my unemployment check when I was laid off just after I moved out. I kept paying the full amount. I was eventually over a month adhead in my payments. I never recieved anything from the state clueing me into this fact. Once I found this out, about a year later, I adjusted my payment schedule to correct this. A few months later, out of the blue, I get this legal document from the state saying I was behind in the amount of $11.64. The letter threatened to take any tax refund I might have coming as well as some other tactics I don't care to remember, if I didn't pay this amount immediately. The crazy thing is I was paying exactly what I was supposed to be paying. I don't even know where this $11.64 came from. So after being several hundred dollars ahead for about a year they decide they need to bring to bare the full weight of the law against me for ALLEDGEDLY being behind $11.64. (I added the "alledgedly" part. There was no doubt in their minds that I was behind.) As a side note -- when my divorce was final, I was working full time, and my ex hadn't had a steady, full-time job, for years. As such, the burden of CS was place heavily on me (it was about a 80/20 split for financial responsibility). Since that time, my ex now works full time... and makes a reasonable income. Theoretically, now that she's had full time employment for several months, I could go back to court and have the CS re-figured based upon her ability to contribute more. But I won't. Why..? Because my kids are even better off with my CS and my ex's good income... and that's just fine with me. |
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CS related licene suspension question...
"Pamela" wrote in message hlink.net... "Dusty" wrote in message ... "Pamela" wrote in message hlink.net... "Dusty" wrote in message ... "Pamela" wrote in message hlink.net... I never respond to this stuff, but you know, I don't think taking a I am sorry, but I have never known of a case where the child support ordered was 50% of the NCP income. I only have heard of the 50% when there are arrears to be paid. A friend of mine in CA earns $2000 a month. His child support is $567. a month for three children, + $160 a month, which is his share of the child care costs. I do not see that as excessive. THESE ARE HIS CHILDREN. They come before new car payments, cable, or anything else. Pamela Your friend earns 2k/month, pays out $727/month, leaving them with $1273/month. Let's assume their X also makes 2k/month. After CS, the X has $2727/month. If your friend wants the children in their life, they have to spend as much as the X to provide the necessary living space. The only difference in living expenses would be for food, and quite possibly slighter higher utilities. So, what the X does with $2727/month, your friend is supposed to do with just $1273? (And there is no guarantee that the children receive any benefit from the CS other than those items which they share in common with the CP.) My X told the mediator at our CS hearing that she didn't have enough money to buy her son shoes. She also mentioned in passing that she just bought a 1 year old town house for $145,000.00. No one even blinked or bothered to ask her to justify her actions. Why would a mother buy a home if it would cause her children go without basic clothing? My X thinks CS is an entitlement program -for her. The up'd my child support. She's buying a home and I had to give up an apartment that was just 4 blocks away from my sons because I couldn't afford the rent any longer. The whole idea of fair share becomes a quagmire when you stop looking at just one set of the groups involved. I keep coming to the same conclusion that there should be 2 sets of rules. 1 set for those who can rule themselves, and another set for those that can't. CS only has rules for those that can't and assumes anyone that doesn't toe their line is someone who can't rule themselves. -- from Dave the wave ^^^^^^\________ |
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