rant plus need help (long - sorry)

I agree with Helen that you just need to reaffirm the distinction of night
v. day. Try, at night:

-- darkness, silence and a very matter of fact feeding approach -- a tiny
nightlight, no tv or radio, no talk, no cuddles, no singing .... just feed
and done. Then in the a.m. make a BIG fuss and lots of noise (we actually
used to throw the lights on and sing when we came in the room -- feels dumb
but if it works ...) and make daylight feedings noisy, cuddly and fun.

-- don't change diapers at night unless poopy.

-- swaddle

-- they may not like going down flat, so try putting down to sleep in car
seat, swing (set low or not moving at all), vibrating bouncy seat, ... one
of ours was fine for naps but didn't like to sleep flat at night for a
couple of months and all of these alternatives worked at various times.

-- dh and you each sleep semi-sitting up in bed (not near an edge), holding
a nodding-off baby. I had to do this with Holly before we realized that her
"night-day confusion" was actually starvation caused by lack of milk supply
(oops). Get lots of pillows to support your back and arms and you kind of
half-recline. Then at least you may doze even though it is not the best
sleep on the market. This differs from co-sleeping in that you are not
lying down and so cannot roll and squash anyone. Obviously, you need plenty
of pillows under your elbow etc. so that you can't drop the baby when your
arms go a bit limp.


"Ellie" wrote in message
...
This sounds like a good idea, going to give it a go, I certainly don't
mind
them feeding constantly but it would be easier during the day! I can
handle
being tired for a few more days to see if we can get into a pattern.

Thanks for the advice

Ellie

"H Schinske" wrote in message
...
One other thing I thought of after I hit send. Can you express some
milk
and
maybe have your husband or a grandma take over for some of the night
time
feedings? That way you get the sleep and they still get the milk. But
I
am
not sure if you are totally opposed to using bottles at all.

I don't see this as a feeding problem at all, really, it's just day and
night
confusion like lots of babies have, only a little more severe, and worse
to
handle because there are two babies.

I'd use extra hands to take the babies out so mom can nap. Plus maybe
get
up
for the morning at five or something, so that there is a pattern of
getting
*up* and then having a nap *later*, even if it's been preceded by
wee-hours
hell. Then put the babies down for a nap a little later, as late as you
can
persuade them. Then try to move the getting-up time later. This is
REALLY
HARD
to do when you are really tired yourself, which is why finding *some*
way
to
get naps for the adults in is a good idea.

I don't know if going-to-bed rituals really work with tiny babies
(though
swaddling can help), but routines, as in doing the same thing every day
in
the
same order, worked well with mine. You can sometimes manage to get the
*order*
the way you want it and then move the *time*.

--Helen

Ellie wrote:

I tried pacifiers and they lasted about 20 seconds - LOL . We did try
expressing and using bottles but ended up with nipple confusion with DS and
it was really hard work getting him back to the breast, however we are going
to be giving it another try soon because I will be going back to work
(unfortunately) and so will be going down the bottle route anyway. I just
wanted to hold out a little longer, plus the health professionals have been
saying "Oh you'll be lucky to express enough milk as well as feeding them" -
there's no wonder there were only 3 of us breast feeding on the postnatal
ward when there's no encouragement.

Oh my, you really must be a strong woman! Congrats!

As to your problem, I suggest to be more persistent with the pacifiers.
We started with the newborn ones with the cherry-shape and that was a
1-second-affair for both kids. Then we switched to the "bf-friendly"
symmetrical ones which happened to be a whole lot bigger, too, and it
seemed to me that they worked better. Or my kids had finally got the
hang of pacifiers. Anyway, in the beginning we would actually hold the
pacifier in when they wanted to shove it out. Yes, never tell anyone,
we're terrible parents.

I bf-ed my son and pumped and bottle-fed my daughter, because she
somehow sucked like mad but never got anything out. DS would also be a
comfort-feeder, he drank and fell asleep, and when I removed him from
the breast he woke up again and wanted to drink on. With me having
inflamed nipples and the need to pump for DD this just wasn't possible,
so we *had* to get him used to the pacifier. I don't remember exactly,
but I think it took about a week or 2. And it didn't do him any harm in
terms of undernourishment, in those times he was soaring through the
percentiles from his 50% birth weight to 97% maximum. Now at 14 months
he's again at 50%, LOL.

And, it *is* possible to pump and feed them! I guess you know this
anyway, but I want to give you a big thumbs-up on it!

Ellie wrote:

I tried pacifiers and they lasted about 20 seconds - LOL . We did try
expressing and using bottles but ended up with nipple confusion with DS and
it was really hard work getting him back to the breast, however we are going
to be giving it another try soon because I will be going back to work
(unfortunately) and so will be going down the bottle route anyway. I just
wanted to hold out a little longer, plus the health professionals have been
saying "Oh you'll be lucky to express enough milk as well as feeding them" -
there's no wonder there were only 3 of us breast feeding on the postnatal
ward when there's no encouragement.

Oh my, you really must be a strong woman! Congrats!

As to your problem, I suggest to be more persistent with the pacifiers.
We started with the newborn ones with the cherry-shape and that was a
1-second-affair for both kids. Then we switched to the "bf-friendly"
symmetrical ones which happened to be a whole lot bigger, too, and it
seemed to me that they worked better. Or my kids had finally got the
hang of pacifiers. Anyway, in the beginning we would actually hold the
pacifier in when they wanted to shove it out. Yes, never tell anyone,
we're terrible parents.

I bf-ed my son and pumped and bottle-fed my daughter, because she
somehow sucked like mad but never got anything out. DS would also be a
comfort-feeder, he drank and fell asleep, and when I removed him from
the breast he woke up again and wanted to drink on. With me having
inflamed nipples and the need to pump for DD this just wasn't possible,
so we *had* to get him used to the pacifier. I don't remember exactly,
but I think it took about a week or 2. And it didn't do him any harm in
terms of undernourishment, in those times he was soaring through the
percentiles from his 50% birth weight to 97% maximum. Now at 14 months
he's again at 50%, LOL.

And, it *is* possible to pump and feed them! I guess you know this
anyway, but I want to give you a big thumbs-up on it!

"Ellie" wrote in message
...
Hello everyone hope someone can help

I have 5 week old twins born 4 1/2 weks early and I'm breastfeeding. The
problem is that from midnight to 7 or 8 am they want to be feeding
constantly and then sleep all morning. I am wondering if it is possible
to
change their behaviour to sleeping a little more at night and feeding more
during the day, however everything I've tried so far has been a complete
failure. Please don't get me wrong, I'm not wanting 5 wk old babes to
sleep
through the night, but even if they went just 1 - 2 hours between feeds it
would be easier than what's happening at the moment. For a while I
worried
that I wasn't producing enough milk and they weren't satisfied but they
are
putting on weight brilliantly so I am assured by the midwife/health
visitor
that this is not the problem.

The health professionals only advice has been to give formula but I really
want to breastfeed. They just say "oh, you've done well to breast feed
premature babies for 5 weeks ...." etc but surely I can't be the only
person
b/feeding twins, they are making me feel like some king of freak for
wanting
to b/f twins in the first place. I really feel like I'm banging my head
against a brick wall with them at the moment.

Nobody in the family can give me any advice as these are the first
grandchildren for both my family and my DH, and both my mother and MIL
formula fed. Nor am I saying formula feeding is wrong, I just don't want
to
give up breastfeeding for the sake of my sleep when the babies are
obviously
doing well on it. They seem to feed, fall asleep and then the minute you
try and put them in a cot or moses basket or crib they wake, start
screaming
and want feeding again.

Is this something that I just have to ride out or does anybody know how I
can try and change it.

Sorry this is so long but I really don't know where else to turn (having
said that I feel better just getting it off my chest!).

Ellie



Ellie- I agree with the others about the day/night confusion. Janet had some
good points about keeping night feedings quiet and dark and day feedings
bright and fun. My boys were very frequent feeders. Three years later I
think I've finally realized they have a fast metabolism rate...but that's a
different story. What I did was sleep sitting up in bed with the babies
propped on pillows beside me nursing. That was really the only way I could
ever get enough sleep. I had rails on the sides of my bed to prevent falling
out, also pillows on the floor "just in case." For the first few months this
worked well. Then I did do co-sleeping, although that is somewhat
controversial. I just kept turning over to face one baby so they could b/f
then turn the other way. I wasn't planning on going that route, but I
believe that each family just has to do whatever it takes to get through
that first year or so. It sounds like you're doing great with b/f'ing and
not letting what others say get to you too much. The general public,
including health "professionals," IMO seem to be unaware of the
possibilities of b/f'ing twins, and premies for that matter. If your babies
are growing then you're doing perfectly!


--
Leslie
Alex and Jordan, 06 May 2000

"Ellie" wrote in message
...
Hello everyone hope someone can help

I have 5 week old twins born 4 1/2 weks early and I'm breastfeeding. The
problem is that from midnight to 7 or 8 am they want to be feeding
constantly and then sleep all morning. I am wondering if it is possible
to
change their behaviour to sleeping a little more at night and feeding more
during the day, however everything I've tried so far has been a complete
failure. Please don't get me wrong, I'm not wanting 5 wk old babes to
sleep
through the night, but even if they went just 1 - 2 hours between feeds it
would be easier than what's happening at the moment. For a while I
worried
that I wasn't producing enough milk and they weren't satisfied but they
are
putting on weight brilliantly so I am assured by the midwife/health
visitor
that this is not the problem.

The health professionals only advice has been to give formula but I really
want to breastfeed. They just say "oh, you've done well to breast feed
premature babies for 5 weeks ...." etc but surely I can't be the only
person
b/feeding twins, they are making me feel like some king of freak for
wanting
to b/f twins in the first place. I really feel like I'm banging my head
against a brick wall with them at the moment.

Nobody in the family can give me any advice as these are the first
grandchildren for both my family and my DH, and both my mother and MIL
formula fed. Nor am I saying formula feeding is wrong, I just don't want
to
give up breastfeeding for the sake of my sleep when the babies are
obviously
doing well on it. They seem to feed, fall asleep and then the minute you
try and put them in a cot or moses basket or crib they wake, start
screaming
and want feeding again.

Is this something that I just have to ride out or does anybody know how I
can try and change it.

Sorry this is so long but I really don't know where else to turn (having
said that I feel better just getting it off my chest!).

Ellie



Ellie- I agree with the others about the day/night confusion. Janet had some
good points about keeping night feedings quiet and dark and day feedings
bright and fun. My boys were very frequent feeders. Three years later I
think I've finally realized they have a fast metabolism rate...but that's a
different story. What I did was sleep sitting up in bed with the babies
propped on pillows beside me nursing. That was really the only way I could
ever get enough sleep. I had rails on the sides of my bed to prevent falling
out, also pillows on the floor "just in case." For the first few months this
worked well. Then I did do co-sleeping, although that is somewhat
controversial. I just kept turning over to face one baby so they could b/f
then turn the other way. I wasn't planning on going that route, but I
believe that each family just has to do whatever it takes to get through
that first year or so. It sounds like you're doing great with b/f'ing and
not letting what others say get to you too much. The general public,
including health "professionals," IMO seem to be unaware of the
possibilities of b/f'ing twins, and premies for that matter. If your babies
are growing then you're doing perfectly!


--
Leslie
Alex and Jordan, 06 May 2000

On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 05:38:48 -0000, "Ellie"
wrote:

Hello everyone hope someone can help

I have 5 week old twins born 4 1/2 weks early and I'm breastfeeding. The
problem is that from midnight to 7 or 8 am they want to be feeding
constantly and then sleep all morning.

Ellie, I'm sorry you're going through this. My feeling is that this
probably has little to do with feeding method and more to do with your
babies having their days/nights mixed up.

My daughters (also premature, but by 14 weeks) have been taking
bottles of EBM since they stopped the tube feedings, and they also had
their days and nights confused in the beginning. They would sleep most
of the day away and then want to be up all night.

I wish I had advice for you, but in our case it was just something
they had to grow out of. It didn't take all that long (just a few
weeks) but it felt like *forever* at the time. You have my sympathy.

If you're not opposed to bottle feeding, maybe you could express some
milk and let someone else take over for a night? My DH did that one
night each week when the girls were first home, and just getting 6 or
7 hours of sleep once a week went a long way toward making me feel
somewhat human.

Hang in there!

--
Paula
Mom to Olivia and Cassie (b. 4/8/03)
^Grace^ (b. 5/16/02 d. 5/17/02) and ^Adam^ (b/d. 5/17/02)

On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 05:38:48 -0000, "Ellie"
wrote:

Hello everyone hope someone can help

I have 5 week old twins born 4 1/2 weks early and I'm breastfeeding. The
problem is that from midnight to 7 or 8 am they want to be feeding
constantly and then sleep all morning.

Ellie, I'm sorry you're going through this. My feeling is that this
probably has little to do with feeding method and more to do with your
babies having their days/nights mixed up.

My daughters (also premature, but by 14 weeks) have been taking
bottles of EBM since they stopped the tube feedings, and they also had
their days and nights confused in the beginning. They would sleep most
of the day away and then want to be up all night.

I wish I had advice for you, but in our case it was just something
they had to grow out of. It didn't take all that long (just a few
weeks) but it felt like *forever* at the time. You have my sympathy.

If you're not opposed to bottle feeding, maybe you could express some
milk and let someone else take over for a night? My DH did that one
night each week when the girls were first home, and just getting 6 or
7 hours of sleep once a week went a long way toward making me feel
somewhat human.

Hang in there!

--
Paula
Mom to Olivia and Cassie (b. 4/8/03)
^Grace^ (b. 5/16/02 d. 5/17/02) and ^Adam^ (b/d. 5/17/02)

wrote:

plus the health professionals have been
saying "Oh you'll be lucky to express enough milk as well as feeding them" -
there's no wonder there were only 3 of us breast feeding on the postnatal
ward when there's no encouragement.

Oh, lord, what an idiotic thing for them to say. I got a lot of comments like
that too, the doubtful little "It's great you're going to TRY" comments (I can
still recall the exact nuance of that nurse's voice!). It does sound as though
you have plenty of milk, and if you can manage to let down fairly well for the
pump, and can get decent pump breaks at work, I don't think it's at all
unlikely that you'd be able to keep them on at *least* half breastmilk,
considering how many women express for singletons and have plenty, and you're
starting out with a double supply. That's very much worth doing.

--Helen

wrote:

plus the health professionals have been
saying "Oh you'll be lucky to express enough milk as well as feeding them" -
there's no wonder there were only 3 of us breast feeding on the postnatal
ward when there's no encouragement.

Oh, lord, what an idiotic thing for them to say. I got a lot of comments like
that too, the doubtful little "It's great you're going to TRY" comments (I can
still recall the exact nuance of that nurse's voice!). It does sound as though
you have plenty of milk, and if you can manage to let down fairly well for the
pump, and can get decent pump breaks at work, I don't think it's at all
unlikely that you'd be able to keep them on at *least* half breastmilk,
considering how many women express for singletons and have plenty, and you're
starting out with a double supply. That's very much worth doing.

--Helen

Ellie-

I feel for you. My girls did the same thing when they were infants and I
received absolutly zero support from everyone while I was BFing them. My mother
actually criticized me almost constantly for BFing. She told me I was
"starving" my children by not giving them formula and cereal when they were
newborns......sigh. It was very discouraging. My goal was to b/f until my
girls were a year old, but I only made it to 7 months and it was largely due to
the lack of support. Now I really regret it and wish that I had nursed them
for a full year.

B/fing got easier for me after 6 weeks. Your twins may be going through a
growth spurt. Have you tried keeping them awake so that they nurse longer? My
girls would nurse for a couple minutes and then fall asleep and nothing I did
would wake them up enough, unless I put them in their bed...then they were wide
awake and screaming to nurse again. It was so frustrating.

I doubt that anything I've said has provided you with any answers, but I just
wanted to let you know that you're not alone. I've been through what you're
going through and just try to hang in there. It *does* get easier. You may
even notice a big difference in another week (which may sound like a long time
right now, but it really does fly by).

Andrea
twin girls-Madison & Jordan
3/22/00


Hello everyone hope someone can help

I have 5 week old twins born 4 1/2 weks early and I'm breastfeeding. The
problem is that from midnight to 7 or 8 am they want to be feeding
constantly and then sleep all morning. I am wondering if it is possible to
change their behaviour to sleeping a little more at night and feeding more
during the day, however everything I've tried so far has been a complete
failure. Please don't get me wrong, I'm not wanting 5 wk old babes to sleep
through the night, but even if they went just 1 - 2 hours between feeds it
would be easier than what's happening at the moment. For a while I worried
that I wasn't producing enough milk and they weren't satisfied but they are
putting on weight brilliantly so I am assured by the midwife/health visitor
that this is not the problem.

The health professionals only advice has been to give formula but I really
want to breastfeed. They just say "oh, you've done well to breast feed
premature babies for 5 weeks ...." etc but surely I can't be the only person
b/feeding twins, they are making me feel like some king of freak for wanting
to b/f twins in the first place. I really feel like I'm banging my head
against a brick wall with them at the moment.

Nobody in the family can give me any advice as these are the first
grandchildren for both my family and my DH, and both my mother and MIL
formula fed. Nor am I saying formula feeding is wrong, I just don't want to
give up breastfeeding for the sake of my sleep when the babies are obviously
doing well on it. They seem to feed, fall asleep and then the minute you
try and put them in a cot or moses basket or crib they wake, start screaming
and want feeding again.

Is this something that I just have to ride out or does anybody know how I
can try and change it.

Sorry this is so long but I really don't know where else to turn (having
said that I feel better just getting it off my chest!).

Ellie