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#1
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"Voluntary" proof of paternity form?
My latest child was born on the 18th, and came home with us almost one week ago after his stint in the NICU. We do not yet have a birth certificate though, partly because of some hoo-hah with the State of Rhode Island. Since my partner and I are not married, we were told that we needed to sign a "voluntary affidavit of paternity" in order to have my name put on the birth certificate. Which sounded OK at first, until we actually read the document. One part of the affidavit spells out that I, as the father, agree to "assume the financial responsibility of the child". There is nothing on the form that mentions the mother's financial responsibilities. Both myself and my partner disagreed with this and were not comfortable signing the document. We told the clerk at the hospital that we would sign the document if the section about the father assuming financial responsibility were either removed or altered to include the mother's equal assumption of financial responsibility. We were told that this was impossible. Finally, I took a black pen and thoroughly scribbled out the offensive section. Both my partner and myself signed the scribble mark, then the document, and gave it to the clerk, who told us she "couldn't guarantee" what the state offices would do with the document. Wondering if they might pull some shenanigan to re-edit the document to its original form with our signatures on it, we asked for a photocopy then and there so we could have it for our private files. The clerk told us that this was impossible. When asked why, she said that it was because it was "a legal document". This made no sense to us, so during the conversation I picked the document up and walked away with it, thinking that if she refused to photocopy it we could just photocopy it ourselves and then return with it. Security was called and within moments two officers came running up, looking ready to deal with a homocidal speed freak. I returned the document, but we instructed the clerk to hold the paperwork because we were not comfortable with it being sent along downtown in light of what she had told us. I made some calls today, spoke to the clerk's boss, spoke to her boss, spoke to HER boss, and was finally directed to -- guess who? The Rhode Island Department of Child Support Enforcement. Turns out these are the folks who wrote up the document in the first place. HMM! We are currently waiting for a response from an administrator of the RIDCSE, so that we can explain our situation. What I have been told is that it is impossible for a man to get his name on his child's birth certificate without signing this "voluntary" affidavit, unless he is ordered to appear in Family Court for purposes of Child Support. It is a small thing, I know -- but both my partner and I are irked at the language of the document, which appears to state that only fathers are financially responsible for their children. We are also more than a little upset about my basic rights of legal recognition as father of my own child being withheld unless and until I sign a document that is officially labelled "voluntary". Any experience, comments, anything? - Ron ^*^ |
#2
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"Werebat" wrote in message news:1q7oe.8864$rb6.262@lakeread07... My latest child was born on the 18th, and came home with us almost one week ago after his stint in the NICU. We do not yet have a birth certificate though, partly because of some hoo-hah with the State of Rhode Island. Since my partner and I are not married, we were told that we needed to sign a "voluntary affidavit of paternity" in order to have my name put on the birth certificate. Which sounded OK at first, until we actually read the document. One part of the affidavit spells out that I, as the father, agree to "assume the financial responsibility of the child". There is nothing on the form that mentions the mother's financial responsibilities. Both myself and my partner disagreed with this and were not comfortable signing the document. We told the clerk at the hospital that we would sign the document if the section about the father assuming financial responsibility were either removed or altered to include the mother's equal assumption of financial responsibility. We were told that this was impossible. Finally, I took a black pen and thoroughly scribbled out the offensive section. Both my partner and myself signed the scribble mark, then the document, and gave it to the clerk, who told us she "couldn't guarantee" what the state offices would do with the document. Wondering if they might pull some shenanigan to re-edit the document to its original form with our signatures on it, we asked for a photocopy then and there so we could have it for our private files. The clerk told us that this was impossible. When asked why, she said that it was because it was "a legal document". This made no sense to us, so during the conversation I picked the document up and walked away with it, thinking that if she refused to photocopy it we could just photocopy it ourselves and then return with it. Security was called and within moments two officers came running up, looking ready to deal with a homocidal speed freak. I returned the document, but we instructed the clerk to hold the paperwork because we were not comfortable with it being sent along downtown in light of what she had told us. I made some calls today, spoke to the clerk's boss, spoke to her boss, spoke to HER boss, and was finally directed to -- guess who? The Rhode Island Department of Child Support Enforcement. Turns out these are the folks who wrote up the document in the first place. HMM! We are currently waiting for a response from an administrator of the RIDCSE, so that we can explain our situation. What I have been told is that it is impossible for a man to get his name on his child's birth certificate without signing this "voluntary" affidavit, unless he is ordered to appear in Family Court for purposes of Child Support. It is a small thing, I know -- but both my partner and I are irked at the language of the document, which appears to state that only fathers are financially responsible for their children. We are also more than a little upset about my basic rights of legal recognition as father of my own child being withheld unless and until I sign a document that is officially labelled "voluntary". Any experience, comments, anything? In most states there are three ways to establish paternity - presumption (but you and your partner are not married so this does not apply), acknowledgement (this is what they are asking you to do with the form), and a judicial filiation judgment (that's if you refuse to take a DNA test and a court rules in the future). The form for voluntary establishment of paternity is usually called a Joint Declaration of Paternity. Each state is required to provide this form under federal law. See 42 USC 666(a) (5) (c). Therefore it is not a state form per se. The legal stuff is fairly simple. State's will automatically place a married woman's husband's name on a birth certificate based on her verbal word only. Fathers usually don't sign birth certificates - Only the mother and the doctor sign it. There is no statute of limitations on the signing of a Joint Declaration of Paternity. Federal law prevents any state law restricting the establishment of paternity to less than 18 years. You can formally acknowledge paternity any time at a later date if this is a real issue for you and the child. If you sign the form now, the clock will start running on the RI statutory limit on challenging paternity. IN many states this limit is 60 days. My recommendation - Forget the form unless the state assures you signing the form will get your name on the child's birth certificate as the child's father. The form will most likely not get your name on the child's birth certificate. You can always sign it later. If you develop a pattern of acting as the child's father you will have the same financial obligation in the future as you would have by signing the form now. IOW - Only sign the form if it gets your name on the child's birth certificate. |
#3
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"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message nk.net... "Werebat" wrote in message news:1q7oe.8864$rb6.262@lakeread07... My latest child was born on the 18th, and came home with us almost one week ago after his stint in the NICU. We do not yet have a birth certificate though, partly because of some hoo-hah with the State of Rhode Island. Since my partner and I are not married, we were told that we needed to sign a "voluntary affidavit of paternity" in order to have my name put on the birth certificate. Which sounded OK at first, until we actually read the document. One part of the affidavit spells out that I, as the father, agree to "assume the financial responsibility of the child". There is nothing on the form that mentions the mother's financial responsibilities. Both myself and my partner disagreed with this and were not comfortable signing the document. We told the clerk at the hospital that we would sign the document if the section about the father assuming financial responsibility were either removed or altered to include the mother's equal assumption of financial responsibility. We were told that this was impossible. Finally, I took a black pen and thoroughly scribbled out the offensive section. Both my partner and myself signed the scribble mark, then the document, and gave it to the clerk, who told us she "couldn't guarantee" what the state offices would do with the document. Wondering if they might pull some shenanigan to re-edit the document to its original form with our signatures on it, we asked for a photocopy then and there so we could have it for our private files. The clerk told us that this was impossible. When asked why, she said that it was because it was "a legal document". This made no sense to us, so during the conversation I picked the document up and walked away with it, thinking that if she refused to photocopy it we could just photocopy it ourselves and then return with it. Security was called and within moments two officers came running up, looking ready to deal with a homocidal speed freak. I returned the document, but we instructed the clerk to hold the paperwork because we were not comfortable with it being sent along downtown in light of what she had told us. I made some calls today, spoke to the clerk's boss, spoke to her boss, spoke to HER boss, and was finally directed to -- guess who? The Rhode Island Department of Child Support Enforcement. Turns out these are the folks who wrote up the document in the first place. HMM! We are currently waiting for a response from an administrator of the RIDCSE, so that we can explain our situation. What I have been told is that it is impossible for a man to get his name on his child's birth certificate without signing this "voluntary" affidavit, unless he is ordered to appear in Family Court for purposes of Child Support. It is a small thing, I know -- but both my partner and I are irked at the language of the document, which appears to state that only fathers are financially responsible for their children. We are also more than a little upset about my basic rights of legal recognition as father of my own child being withheld unless and until I sign a document that is officially labelled "voluntary". Any experience, comments, anything? In most states there are three ways to establish paternity - presumption (but you and your partner are not married so this does not apply), acknowledgement (this is what they are asking you to do with the form), and a judicial filiation judgment (that's if you refuse to take a DNA test and a court rules in the future). The form for voluntary establishment of paternity is usually called a Joint Declaration of Paternity. Each state is required to provide this form under federal law. See 42 USC 666(a) (5) (c). Therefore it is not a state form per se. The legal stuff is fairly simple. State's will automatically place a married woman's husband's name on a birth certificate based on her verbal word only. Fathers usually don't sign birth certificates - Only the mother and the doctor sign it. There is no statute of limitations on the signing of a Joint Declaration of Paternity. Federal law prevents any state law restricting the establishment of paternity to less than 18 years. You can formally acknowledge paternity any time at a later date if this is a real issue for you and the child. If you sign the form now, the clock will start running on the RI statutory limit on challenging paternity. IN many states this limit is 60 days. My recommendation - Forget the form unless the state assures you signing the form will get your name on the child's birth certificate as the child's father. The form will most likely not get your name on the child's birth certificate. You can always sign it later. If you develop a pattern of acting as the child's father you will have the same financial obligation in the future as you would have by signing the form now. IOW - Only sign the form if it gets your name on the child's birth certificate. p.s. If you want to claim the child as your dependent for tax purposes you will have to get married. The recent federal tax court decision limiting child exemptions to non-married CP's, and not the child's majority financial support provider, works against your situation. See a qualified tax professional on how to use the child exemption under the recent decision. |
#4
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Exactly the same in Pa. Same situation here. I was very irritated but
signed it. I have 60 days to revoke signature.... I could have 1. told my girlfriend she was a whore. 2. Could have let the baby that I assume is mine not have my name. 3. Sign it and be signing that I am responsible financially for this baby and do not have rights to paternity test if mom later decides to tell me the baby belongs to someone else and laughs at me every month when the child support check gets deducted from my pay. 4. Tell your girlfriend she is a whore and you aint da daddy while she is in the hospital order a paternity test AND then go home with MOM and expect her to continue to be in love with you. talk about coercion!!! Did you notice while in the hospital MOM had to sign off on bathtub inservices, feeding education, all sorts of stuff but the only thing they want dad to sign is the shaken baby information form. ' "Werebat" wrote in message news:1q7oe.8864$rb6.262@lakeread07... My latest child was born on the 18th, and came home with us almost one week ago after his stint in the NICU. We do not yet have a birth certificate though, partly because of some hoo-hah with the State of Rhode Island. Since my partner and I are not married, we were told that we needed to sign a "voluntary affidavit of paternity" in order to have my name put on the birth certificate. Which sounded OK at first, until we actually read the document. One part of the affidavit spells out that I, as the father, agree to "assume the financial responsibility of the child". There is nothing on the form that mentions the mother's financial responsibilities. Both myself and my partner disagreed with this and were not comfortable signing the document. We told the clerk at the hospital that we would sign the document if the section about the father assuming financial responsibility were either removed or altered to include the mother's equal assumption of financial responsibility. We were told that this was impossible. Finally, I took a black pen and thoroughly scribbled out the offensive section. Both my partner and myself signed the scribble mark, then the document, and gave it to the clerk, who told us she "couldn't guarantee" what the state offices would do with the document. Wondering if they might pull some shenanigan to re-edit the document to its original form with our signatures on it, we asked for a photocopy then and there so we could have it for our private files. The clerk told us that this was impossible. When asked why, she said that it was because it was "a legal document". This made no sense to us, so during the conversation I picked the document up and walked away with it, thinking that if she refused to photocopy it we could just photocopy it ourselves and then return with it. Security was called and within moments two officers came running up, looking ready to deal with a homocidal speed freak. I returned the document, but we instructed the clerk to hold the paperwork because we were not comfortable with it being sent along downtown in light of what she had told us. I made some calls today, spoke to the clerk's boss, spoke to her boss, spoke to HER boss, and was finally directed to -- guess who? The Rhode Island Department of Child Support Enforcement. Turns out these are the folks who wrote up the document in the first place. HMM! We are currently waiting for a response from an administrator of the RIDCSE, so that we can explain our situation. What I have been told is that it is impossible for a man to get his name on his child's birth certificate without signing this "voluntary" affidavit, unless he is ordered to appear in Family Court for purposes of Child Support. It is a small thing, I know -- but both my partner and I are irked at the language of the document, which appears to state that only fathers are financially responsible for their children. We are also more than a little upset about my basic rights of legal recognition as father of my own child being withheld unless and until I sign a document that is officially labelled "voluntary". Any experience, comments, anything? - Ron ^*^ |
#5
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*** post for FREE via your newsreader at post.newsfeed.com ***
Werebat writes: [...] Any experience, comments, anything? You've had a glance of how the state tricks and traps unwed fathers into paying child support. This sorry situation has arisen because 65% [1] of unwed fathers didn't intend to cause conception and hundreds of thousands of innocent American men are forced into parenthood each year. Paternity and child support laws can disrupt men's education and force upon them a future of distress associated with the unwanted child, support payments, the stigma of illegitimacy and a gut wrenching anguish that most people can't imagine. Like the law you encountered which doesn't hold women financially responsible, abortion and abandonment laws also protect only women from being forced into parenthood. This is obviously discrimination and violates the (U.S.) Constitution's equal protection clause in its 14th amendment. However, I'm happy to report that activists are working to improve the laws. See http://www.choiceformen.com. Thanks, Kingsley G. Morse Jr. Reproductive Rights Chairman National Center for Men Protect Voluntary Fatherhood http://www.choiceformen.com Reference [1] 65% of births to never-married U.S. women aged 15-44 in 1990, occurring between 1988 and 1990, WERE UNINTENDED BY THE FATHER, (either occurred too early or were unwanted at any time) according to women's reports of their male partner's intentions. (Abma, Joyce and Linda Piccinino, 1994 "Unintended Births: Women's Attitudes vis-a-vis their Male Partners' Attitudes: 1982-1990", paper presented at the annual meeting of the American Sociological Association. -----= Posted via Newsfeed.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeed.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== 100,000 Groups! - 19 Servers! - Unlimited Download! =----- |
#6
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Bob Whiteside wrote: "Bob Whiteside" wrote in message nk.net... "Werebat" wrote in message news:1q7oe.8864$rb6.262@lakeread07... My latest child was born on the 18th, and came home with us almost one week ago after his stint in the NICU. We do not yet have a birth certificate though, partly because of some hoo-hah with the State of Rhode Island. Since my partner and I are not married, we were told that we needed to sign a "voluntary affidavit of paternity" in order to have my name put on the birth certificate. Which sounded OK at first, until we actually read the document. One part of the affidavit spells out that I, as the father, agree to "assume the financial responsibility of the child". There is nothing on the form that mentions the mother's financial responsibilities. Both myself and my partner disagreed with this and were not comfortable signing the document. We told the clerk at the hospital that we would sign the document if the section about the father assuming financial responsibility were either removed or altered to include the mother's equal assumption of financial responsibility. We were told that this was impossible. Finally, I took a black pen and thoroughly scribbled out the offensive section. Both my partner and myself signed the scribble mark, then the document, and gave it to the clerk, who told us she "couldn't guarantee" what the state offices would do with the document. Wondering if they might pull some shenanigan to re-edit the document to its original form with our signatures on it, we asked for a photocopy then and there so we could have it for our private files. The clerk told us that this was impossible. When asked why, she said that it was because it was "a legal document". This made no sense to us, so during the conversation I picked the document up and walked away with it, thinking that if she refused to photocopy it we could just photocopy it ourselves and then return with it. Security was called and within moments two officers came running up, looking ready to deal with a homocidal speed freak. I returned the document, but we instructed the clerk to hold the paperwork because we were not comfortable with it being sent along downtown in light of what she had told us. I made some calls today, spoke to the clerk's boss, spoke to her boss, spoke to HER boss, and was finally directed to -- guess who? The Rhode Island Department of Child Support Enforcement. Turns out these are the folks who wrote up the document in the first place. HMM! We are currently waiting for a response from an administrator of the RIDCSE, so that we can explain our situation. What I have been told is that it is impossible for a man to get his name on his child's birth certificate without signing this "voluntary" affidavit, unless he is ordered to appear in Family Court for purposes of Child Support. It is a small thing, I know -- but both my partner and I are irked at the language of the document, which appears to state that only fathers are financially responsible for their children. We are also more than a little upset about my basic rights of legal recognition as father of my own child being withheld unless and until I sign a document that is officially labelled "voluntary". Any experience, comments, anything? In most states there are three ways to establish paternity - presumption (but you and your partner are not married so this does not apply), acknowledgement (this is what they are asking you to do with the form), and a judicial filiation judgment (that's if you refuse to take a DNA test and a court rules in the future). The form for voluntary establishment of paternity is usually called a Joint Declaration of Paternity. Each state is required to provide this form under federal law. See 42 USC 666(a) (5) (c). Therefore it is not a state form per se. The legal stuff is fairly simple. State's will automatically place a married woman's husband's name on a birth certificate based on her verbal word only. Fathers usually don't sign birth certificates - Only the mother and the doctor sign it. There is no statute of limitations on the signing of a Joint Declaration of Paternity. Federal law prevents any state law restricting the establishment of paternity to less than 18 years. You can formally acknowledge paternity any time at a later date if this is a real issue for you and the child. If you sign the form now, the clock will start running on the RI statutory limit on challenging paternity. IN many states this limit is 60 days. My recommendation - Forget the form unless the state assures you signing the form will get your name on the child's birth certificate as the child's father. The form will most likely not get your name on the child's birth certificate. You can always sign it later. If you develop a pattern of acting as the child's father you will have the same financial obligation in the future as you would have by signing the form now. IOW - Only sign the form if it gets your name on the child's birth certificate. p.s. If you want to claim the child as your dependent for tax purposes you will have to get married. The recent federal tax court decision limiting child exemptions to non-married CP's, and not the child's majority financial support provider, works against your situation. See a qualified tax professional on how to use the child exemption under the recent decision. There is no issue about the child's name -- we had agreed beforehand that he would bear her last name. As far as taxes go, she earns more than twice what I do, so it just makes good sense for her to claim him anyway. It looks like the sensible thing to do may be to forget about signing them, but that seems a shame because I really would like my name to be on his birth certificate. To be honest, all we'd really like to see changed is either the removal of the statement that implies that the father is the sole parent who is financially responsible for the child, or the inclusion of a similar statement to the effect that the mother is also financially responsible for the child. I'll talk to a bureaucrat over at CSE when she gets around to calling back, but I think I already know how that will go. Which is to say, about as well as my little chat about my being labelled the "Non-Custodial Parent" of my first son on every scrap of paper from DCSE that concerns him, when I am no such thing (I have joint legal and physical custody). What if my name is not on the birth certificate and my partner dies? What if we split up under less than amicable terms? Will not having my name on the BC prevent me from getting custody (full or joint) of my child, or will it hamper my ability to do so? I suppose I could just wait until his 18th birthday to sign, but even then I'm signing to agree to something that I don't agree to. The State should not have the power to make me sign my name to a lie in order to establish my legal right as a parent! - Ron ^*^ |
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On Sat, 04 Jun 2005 03:06:28 GMT, "Bob Whiteside"
wrote: p.s. If you want to claim the child as your dependent for tax purposes you will have to get married. The recent federal tax court decision limiting child exemptions to non-married CP's, and not the child's majority financial support provider, works against your situation. See a qualified tax professional on how to use the child exemption under the recent decision. As far as I can tell, the IRS has not adopted any new rules regarding the exemptions for unmarried parents. Where might you have learned of this change? In any case, if the non-married couple lives together and the child lives with them, the "member of household" test can be used to claim the exemption rather than the "relationship" test. |
#8
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Beverly wrote: On Sat, 04 Jun 2005 03:06:28 GMT, "Bob Whiteside" wrote: p.s. If you want to claim the child as your dependent for tax purposes you will have to get married. The recent federal tax court decision limiting child exemptions to non-married CP's, and not the child's majority financial support provider, works against your situation. See a qualified tax professional on how to use the child exemption under the recent decision. As far as I can tell, the IRS has not adopted any new rules regarding the exemptions for unmarried parents. Where might you have learned of this change? In any case, if the non-married couple lives together and the child lives with them, the "member of household" test can be used to claim the exemption rather than the "relationship" test. We do, indeed, live together. However, she earns considerably more than I do, so it makes sense to add him to her tax stuff. I already claim my first son as a dependent, since my ex earns nothing and has no reason to want to claim him as a dependent. - Ron ^*^ |
#9
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"Beverly" wrote in message ... On Sat, 04 Jun 2005 03:06:28 GMT, "Bob Whiteside" wrote: p.s. If you want to claim the child as your dependent for tax purposes you will have to get married. The recent federal tax court decision limiting child exemptions to non-married CP's, and not the child's majority financial support provider, works against your situation. See a qualified tax professional on how to use the child exemption under the recent decision. As far as I can tell, the IRS has not adopted any new rules regarding the exemptions for unmarried parents. Where might you have learned of this change? In King 121 TC 245 that came down in December 2003 the federal tax court overruled the IRS' previous position (and the congressional record's reflection of legislative intent) that the "special support test" only applies to divorced or spearated parents. In King, the court changed the rules to extend the "special support test" that previously applied to divorced or separated parents to also include never married parents. The net result was to allow never married CP's to control the child exemption by keeping it, signing it away to the NCP when there is a formal divorce or separation custody agreement, or assigning the exemption under a Multiple Support Agreement to any party contributing 10% or more of a child's support. This is the circumstance and case we discussed here about a month ago. In any case, if the non-married couple lives together and the child lives with them, the "member of household" test can be used to claim the exemption rather than the "relationship" test. That's not my understanding of what the tax court ruled in King. My interpretation is the only way for someone in the OP's position to get the child exemption is if he and the child's mother have a court ordered custody agreement or enter into a Multiple Support Agreement. But the catch is a Multiple Support Agreement only works when two or more people support a person (in this case a child) and no one provides more than half of the child's support. Since the mother makes more than the child's unmarried father she cannot qualify for a Multiple Support Agreement. And I don't think a court would order a child custody agreement designating the CP and NCP when the parents are living together. |
#10
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"Werebat" wrote in message news:XLHoe.34423$Fv.24424@lakeread01... Beverly wrote: On Sat, 04 Jun 2005 03:06:28 GMT, "Bob Whiteside" wrote: p.s. If you want to claim the child as your dependent for tax purposes you will have to get married. The recent federal tax court decision limiting child exemptions to non-married CP's, and not the child's majority financial support provider, works against your situation. See a qualified tax professional on how to use the child exemption under the recent decision. As far as I can tell, the IRS has not adopted any new rules regarding the exemptions for unmarried parents. Where might you have learned of this change? In any case, if the non-married couple lives together and the child lives with them, the "member of household" test can be used to claim the exemption rather than the "relationship" test. We do, indeed, live together. However, she earns considerably more than I do, so it makes sense to add him to her tax stuff. I already claim my first son as a dependent, since my ex earns nothing and has no reason to want to claim him as a dependent. I'm not a CPA, but I think I understand this stuff fairly well. There are advantages to how you plan to file your taxes. First, the child's parent with the highest income can prove they provide more than half the child's support to meet the support test. This allows your partner to pay lower taxes by claiming head of household status and the child exemption. Second, she can claim the standard deduction (or her itemized deductions) and you can claim the single standard deduction (or your itemized deductions). The combination of two single standard deductions is greater than a married couple claiming a married standard deduction. This causes your combined deductions to increase and reduce your taxes. Third, there is no marriage penalty. Your combined incomes can exceed the point where a married couple will move up into a higher tax bracket. By separating your incomes you pay less tax overall at lower tax bracket rates. BTW - I just don't understand how gays and lesbians are pressing so hard to get the right to marriage. They will end up complaining about the higher taxes they pay based on the right to marry because they will lose the three advantages listed above instead of just living together. |
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