I have a situation that I need help with

"Welches" wrote in message To be
honest I don't think I'd have changed any wording without discussing
it with my child first.

The usual situation would have been having her right beside me while I did
this, but she had put this project off, first working on it a week and
getting most of it done and then procrastinating until last night to do the
finishing touches and start memorizing it and practicing it out loud. It was
my offer to type the report as a matter of fact, I was incorrect with that
part of the detail. She had started typing it herself and it was dinner time
and I told her that I would type it because it would take me less time,
which she didn't believe and made a huge fuss over me typing it.

From the child's point of view she may be worried that if she says things
that are different from the text then she will be told she hasn't learnt
it properly or that the teacher will look at it and say that she must have
got someone to do it because it's not her work so has "cheated". I know
that if I asked my parents for help and they suggested a way of writing
something (I can remember this happening on conclusions for science
experiements particularly) I always would take what they'd written and put
it in my own words as I was afraid that it would be picked up that I
hadn't written it on my own and their way of expressing something was very
different from mine.

Debbie

Thanks. You are probably right about her being worried. I know she was;
however, part of it was because she put the project off until the last
minute.

Sue

"Jeff" wrote in message
I think I would apologize. I would say: "I am sorry that I upset you. I
was just trying to help. Next time, I will help you type the report. [the
kid should be typing the report, not the adult] And, I never again make
any changes without talking to you first. Besides, if I change something
without talking to you, you don't learn anything. Again, I am sorry. I
made a mistake. I will try not to let it happen again." I would probably
throw in a treat, too.

See above correction. She was typing it herself, and I intervened.

I definitely agree with my apologizing though. I will not be giving her a
treat though because her actions are unacceptable and I will not reward
that.

Sue

"Banty" wrote in message
Well, it's a situation not to have gotten into to begin with.

How would you have not gotten into the situation at all? My only
intervention last night was my offer to type the report. When I did type
the report, I changed the wording and punctuation. Spelling was corrected by
the computer. So should I have let her stay up way past her bedtime to type
this herself, because she did put this off and we kept telling her to get it
done.

Those are the words the child wrote, and it's actually a Good Thing that
she
wants her teacher to see exactly what she wrote. Possibly, she's invested
in
her work in sort of an artistic sense - if so, that's also a Good Thing.

I'm not really convinced of that. She waited until the last minute to finish
this project and she was stressed out to get it done.

As to her tantrum; well, she's ten.

Is that a normal thing then at this age?

Of the child and the adult, it's the adult that should have known better.

I am not understanding this. The adult should have known better for what?

although I would have had some words with her about her fussing that way
over something someone was doing for her.

Yes, we have been beating a dead horse over the fussing and tantrums that
she still has.

Most of all - time to get a copy of the Mavis Beacon typing course
software, to teach her a life skill she apparently has already needed for
sometime -
keyboarding!

We have it and she was actually typing the report herself, but I was trying
to help her out. Thanks.

Sue

"Sue" wrote in message
news:Z6Sdnaj7fOFOWczbnZ2dnUVZ_v6tnZ2d@wideopenwest .com...
"Welches" wrote in message To be
honest I don't think I'd have changed any wording without discussing
it with my child first.

The usual situation would have been having her right beside me while I did
this, but she had put this project off, first working on it a week and
getting most of it done and then procrastinating until last night to do
the finishing touches and start memorizing it and practicing it out loud.
It was my offer to type the report as a matter of fact, I was incorrect
with that part of the detail. She had started typing it herself and it was
dinner time and I told her that I would type it because it would take me
less time, which she didn't believe and made a huge fuss over me typing
it.

Okay that sounds much more what I can see you doing. It didn't sound like
you really just doing it for no reason. I was a bit puzzled by that.
I agree with your final conclusion (answer to Jeff below) I don't think a
treat is in order, but an apology is probably reasonable. She'll probably be
more reasonable too if the project was received well at school :-)
Debbie

From the child's point of view she may be worried that if she says things
that are different from the text then she will be told she hasn't learnt
it properly or that the teacher will look at it and say that she must
have got someone to do it because it's not her work so has "cheated". I
know that if I asked my parents for help and they suggested a way of
writing something (I can remember this happening on conclusions for
science experiements particularly) I always would take what they'd
written and put it in my own words as I was afraid that it would be
picked up that I hadn't written it on my own and their way of expressing
something was very different from mine.

Debbie

Thanks. You are probably right about her being worried. I know she was;
however, part of it was because she put the project off until the last
minute.

Sue

"Rosalie B." wrote in message
When you say typed, do you mean on a typewriter or word processed on
the computer? I just automatically assumed that you meant on the
computer (which would have probably corrected the spelling), but you
said typed and didn't mention printing it out, so it could be on a
typewriter.

I do mean the computer. I didn't print it out because I did want her to read
it first before I printed.

Can she not type herself?

She was typing it herself and I offered to type it because I am faster and
she was stressed out about getting it done. However, as stated before, she
put this project off until the last minute.

Why did the child want the paper typed?

It was required.

If it was required, the typist should have been involved before the final
day (IMHO) if only to make the computer available for her to do her
typing.

Everything was available to her, but she put it off. I normally involve the
kids when I am helping them, but time was of the essence and I just fixed it
myself.

Did the student tell the typist that the report was a memorized oral
report? Didn't the memorization involve reciting the report out
loud? Had the typist participated, by hearing the reportI

I knew it had to be memorized, but she had to have flash cards with key
points to help her remember. The report itself was just more information
that she had to collect and I just changed words around to make more sense.
She should already have known what the content of the report was and didn't
need to read it verbatim.

The type of help that should (IMHO) be offered to the student might be
having them read the paper out loud to some audience before the final
draft (that would be the time to talk about awkward phrasing), or
circling the misspelled words (if not using a WP program that
automatically highlights them) or fixing up an outline so that the
phrases are parallel. I would have no problem correcting the spelling
myself in the final draft --- IF that wasn't one of the parameters on
which the paper was being graded.

Yes that all happened yesterday afternoon. She was told of some things that
would make the report better, but she didn't listen to the suggestions, so I
guess that's why I went ahead and changed it because I felt she was being
stubborn and I think that she will be graded for the punctuation and
grammar.

Sue

Sue wrote:
"Jeff" wrote in message
I think I would apologize. I would say: "I am sorry that I upset you. I
was just trying to help. Next time, I will help you type the report. [the
kid should be typing the report, not the adult] And, I never again make
any changes without talking to you first. Besides, if I change something
without talking to you, you don't learn anything. Again, I am sorry. I
made a mistake. I will try not to let it happen again." I would probably
throw in a treat, too.

See above correction. She was typing it herself, and I intervened.

I definitely agree with my apologizing though. I will not be giving her a
treat though because her actions are unacceptable and I will not reward
that.

Sue

I guess her actions were worse than what you described.

Sounds good to me.

Jeff

"Ericka Kammerer" wrote in message
I wouldn't have fixed things in the report in the first
place, tempting though it is, without working through the child.
If I type something for the kids (which I do, on occasion, when
their load is heavy), the rule is that I type verbatim, mistakes
and all. If they want my services as an editor, then it has to
be a collaborative process.
Now, obviously, I can't condone the child freaking out
and screeching. That's not acceptable even if Mom shouldn't
have changed the wording around. I'd probably have had to say
something about that to the child, but would have apologized
for changing the report without knowledge/consent.

Thanks Ericka.

Sue

On May 21, 9:40 am, "Sue" wrote:
How would you have handled this scenario?

Child is 10 yrs old. Child had speech/paper due this morning. Child worked
on it and asked if mother would type the report. Mother typed report.
However, mom changed some wording around to make sense, helped with spelling
and grammar. Child reads report and freaks out that mom changed her report,
screaming that is not what she memorized and is screeching at the top of her
lungs that mom ruined report. Mom then takes original report, type verbatim,
mistakes and all and takes child to school. Obviously mom's reactions were
left out intentionally. Thanks.

Sue, I'll express a bit more sympathy than other people have. It is
*hard* not to change words around a bit or correct the spelling when
you're typing. (And yes, One is learning to type himself, but there
are still times when he's working on a project that might otherwise be
overwhelming to him, given OT issues, that I do help him out. For
example, when he was doing a biography project, I allowed him to
dictate to me all of the facts that he wanted to put into it (which I
hand wrote), and also allowed him to dictate a timeline (which I typed
using his words, and made him spell anything difficult.))

Nonetheless, its a mistake to do so, particularly without your child's
input. In the future, you might want to say something like, *Janie,
I'm not really sure that I understand what you're saying here. Shall
we work on that together?* You could also mention, *Hmmmm, spell
check doesn't like that spelling you used. Can you look that up?*

Also, memorizing her speech is a *bad idea* She should have known the
key points, but not memorized.

It seems to me that she was stressed and nervous, causing her
reaction. BOTH of you need to apologize. *You're right; I shouldn't
have changed your work. I was wrong to do so. Sometimes even Mom
makes mistakes, and when I do, I admit it and fix it. But you need to
talk to me about it calmly and politely, the way we talk to you about
your mistakes. You need to apologize to me about the way you talked
to me.*

Barbara

Sue wrote:
"Banty" wrote in message
Well, it's a situation not to have gotten into to begin with.

How would you have not gotten into the situation at all? My only
intervention last night was my offer to type the report. When I did type
the report, I changed the wording and punctuation. Spelling was corrected by
the computer. So should I have let her stay up way past her bedtime to type
this herself, because she did put this off and we kept telling her to get it
done.

My comment below is making assumptions about what is really going on. I
may be off base. If so, I am sorry.

I see a time management issue here. I would let her stay up all night if
you she has too. Or miss the deadline. Or let her get up a few hours
early in the morning.

That's assuming there is a pattern here.

Anyway, if there is a time management issue, it's better she learns time
management now than later.

...

Yes, we have been beating a dead horse over the fussing and tantrums that
she still has.

See disclaimer above.

I think the fussing and tantrums is another issue. I would just totally
ignore them. If she starts overfussing or has a tantrum, end of story.
She doesn't get her way. It's over. She loses (in a matter-of-fact way -
no big deal). You move on to the next thing.

Jeff

Most of all - time to get a copy of the Mavis Beacon typing course
software, to teach her a life skill she apparently has already needed for
sometime -
keyboarding!

We have it and she was actually typing the report herself, but I was trying
to help her out. Thanks.

Sue

It seems to me that she was stressed and nervous, causing her
reaction. BOTH of you need to apologize. *You're right; I shouldn't
have changed your work. I was wrong to do so. Sometimes even Mom
makes mistakes, and when I do, I admit it and fix it. But you need to
talk to me about it calmly and politely, the way we talk to you about
your mistakes. You need to apologize to me about the way you talked
to me.*

I agree! I tend to follow the pattern of stress makes me feel overwhelmed,
so I procrastinate and ignore the stress until I HAVE to deal with it, and
then there is so much to do that I blow up at the littlest thing. Now I
know it is wrong and I can apologize and actually mean it. I don't think my
mom ever knew how to handle that trait as she is fairly organized where I am
not. Actually after I calmed down I probably would have thanked her for
trying to help. I only feel upset about people "butting in" when I am
panicking.

Tori
--
Mom To:
Bonnie (03/20/02)
Xavier (10/27/04)
All I really need is love, but a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt!
Lucy Van Pelt (in Peanuts by Charles M. Schultz)