Feeling like a parental failure today :( (long)

Judging from my children's behavior today, I feel like I must be in dire need
of some serious parenting help. I don't know what to do. I'm hoping that
someone here can give me some advice.

I took Jordan & Madison with me to a Kelly's Kids show at a friend's house so I
could make sure I ordered the right size dresses for them. My friend took them
up to her daughter's playroom so they could play while I looked around. When
it was time to go I told them to clean up because we had to go visit their
cousin. They both threw tantrums. They were screaming and crying and wouldn't
clean up. We finally got the playroom cleaned up and went downstairs. I told
them to say "thank you" to my friend for letting them play in the playroom.
They refused to say it. I thanked her, and since I didn't want to cause
another scene or get into a power struggle I didn't push the issue. When we
were walking out I saw another friend of mine, whom Jordan & Madison also know.
She said hello to them and I told them to reply by telling her hi. They
pouted and refused to say it and Madison even told me "NO!" By this time I was
completely mortified. Of course there were about 5 other people there that I
also know, who were witnessing my kids' belligerence.

When we got to the car I told the girls that I was disappointed in their
behavior and that they should have thanked Miss Jamie for letting them play and
told Miss Cindy hello when she spoke to them. In the past I have told them
over and over that they need to say "hi" when someone says hello to them. etc.,
etc.

Afterwards we were having lunch with a friend of mine at Applebees. When we
got inside the girls saw they had balloons and they started yelling to the
hostess "I want a red balloon!" "I want a blue balloon!" I told them they
were being rude and that they needed to say "please" and ask nicely. Once
again I was completely mortified. I realize they're still young, but I don't
speak to people this way and they know they're not supposed to speak to people
like that either! I was completely shocked. I thought about telling them they
weren't going to get a balloon, but after I corrected them they did ask the
hostess again politely.

So we're sitting down in the restaurant and the girls are being sooooo loud.
My friend and I keep telling them to use their inside voices, but they
continued to be loud. Then they started fighting over the crayons and trying
to kick each other under the table! Jordan started grabbing all the crayons so
that Madison couldn't have any and at that point I took her to the restroom and
had a chat with her. She started screaming and crying as soon as I picked her
up from the table and we had to stay in the restroom for about 15 minutes until
she settled down and was ready to listen. I would have taken them & left the
restauraunt if my friend had not been with us. After that their behavior
improved somewhat.

Then tonight after I had bathed them and washed their hair Madison went into
the bathroom and brushed her teeth by herself, got water and toothpaste
everywhere, and ate I don't know how much toothpaste (according to her it was
"a lot"). There was blue toothpaste all in her hair, on her pajamas, the
mirror, sink, and counters. We've told her over and over that she needs a
grown-up to help her brush her teeth and that she's not supposed to eat the
toothpaste. I thought it was out of her reach, but apparently I was wrong.

So anyway, Dh reads the tube and says that it states we should call Poison
Control if it's been ingested. So I called them (Madison's name's already on
file with them) and they said to make her drink 6-8 oz. of milk and to check on
her every 15-30 minutes for the next 6 hours. The woman said Madison would
probably end up with a stomach ache and to call her back if she started
throwing up excessively. So far she's been fine (knock wood).

Does anyone have any suggestions for dealing with rude behavior in public? If
we had been at home I would have told them to do to time-out in their rooms
until they were ready to be nice, but I am obviously having trouble dealing
with this type of behavior in public. We go out to eat for lunch once or twice
per week, so eating in a restaurant is not a new experience for them and I
think it's important that they learn to behave in that setting. I don't expect
them to sit there silently and use impeccable table manners, but I do think
they should be able to act somewhat civilized. I always bring crayons or
something for them to do quietly while we are waiting for our food, but this
isn't helping. Any suggestions? I feel like a parental failure today.

Thank You,
Andrea
twin girls-Madison & Jordan
3/22/00

You are not a parental failure!!

But it does sound like a nice bubble bath or massage is in order - for you!
These are the times that try moms' souls. Or something like that...

Hope your days get better!

Stephanie
Jake and Ryan 9/3/99

"Andrea" wrote in message
...
Judging from my children's behavior today, I feel like I must be in dire
need
of some serious parenting help. I don't know what to do. I'm hoping that
someone here can give me some advice.

I took Jordan & Madison with me to a Kelly's Kids show at a friend's house
so I
could make sure I ordered the right size dresses for them. My friend took
them
up to her daughter's playroom so they could play while I looked around.
When
it was time to go I told them to clean up because we had to go visit their
cousin. They both threw tantrums. They were screaming and crying and
wouldn't
clean up. We finally got the playroom cleaned up and went downstairs. I
told
them to say "thank you" to my friend for letting them play in the
playroom.
They refused to say it. I thanked her, and since I didn't want to cause
another scene or get into a power struggle I didn't push the issue. When
we
were walking out I saw another friend of mine, whom Jordan & Madison also
know.
She said hello to them and I told them to reply by telling her hi. They
pouted and refused to say it and Madison even told me "NO!" By this time
I was
completely mortified. Of course there were about 5 other people there
that I
also know, who were witnessing my kids' belligerence.


Oh Andrea, you are absolutely *not* a parental failure! Your kids are three.
They're going to act like this sometimes.
I'm sure they were only thinking that what they saw was normal 3-year-old
behavior. It's hard to not get embarrassed though. I took my kids to
WalMart yesterday and after they threw everything out of the cart and I
didn't give anything back to them, they started throwing tantrums. I was in
the shortest line I could find but ended up getting out of line and taking
the boys to the restroom to have a talk. They mellowed just enough so that I
didn't walk out right then and forget the things in the cart. It's
embarrassing, but I've decided that most people understand. If they don't,
there's nothing I can do about it, so don't worry about it. I try to insist
on good behavior in public, but sometimes it's just not going to happen.
Most of the time if they act too badly, I take them home immediately. They
also don't go shopping with me again for a few days. Every time I leave them
with Grandma, I explain that they will be able to go to the store with me
when they remember to behave in public. It seems to work for a while, but
the tantrums will creep back in.


When we got to the car I told the girls that I was disappointed in their
behavior and that they should have thanked Miss Jamie for letting them
play and
told Miss Cindy hello when she spoke to them. In the past I have told
them
over and over that they need to say "hi" when someone says hello to them.
etc.,
etc.

Afterwards we were having lunch with a friend of mine at Applebees.

I agree with whoever said they would have cancelled lunch. With the girls in
that mood, it was bound to get worse by expecting them to be on their best
public behavior. It seems like once my boys are in a funky mood, the only
thing I can do is give them a better outlet for it. There are times when I
get in a "mood" too and don't feel like being social. Sometimes it's good
to just be home around family who still loves them even when they act badly.
Of course, that's just MO.

When we
got inside the girls saw they had balloons and they started yelling to
the
hostess "I want a red balloon!" "I want a blue balloon!" I told them
they
were being rude and that they needed to say "please" and ask nicely. Once
again I was completely mortified. I realize they're still young, but I
don't
speak to people this way and they know they're not supposed to speak to
people
like that either! I was completely shocked. I thought about telling them
they
weren't going to get a balloon, but after I corrected them they did ask
the
hostess again politely.

So we're sitting down in the restaurant and the girls are being sooooo
loud.
My friend and I keep telling them to use their inside voices, but they
continued to be loud. Then they started fighting over the crayons and
trying
to kick each other under the table! Jordan started grabbing all the
crayons so
that Madison couldn't have any and at that point I took her to the
restroom and
had a chat with her. She started screaming and crying as soon as I picked
her
up from the table and we had to stay in the restroom for about 15 minutes
until
she settled down and was ready to listen. I would have taken them & left
the
restauraunt if my friend had not been with us. After that their behavior
improved somewhat.

Then tonight after I had bathed them and washed their hair Madison went
into
the bathroom and brushed her teeth by herself, got water and toothpaste
everywhere, and ate I don't know how much toothpaste (according to her it
was
"a lot"). There was blue toothpaste all in her hair, on her pajamas, the
mirror, sink, and counters. We've told her over and over that she needs a
grown-up to help her brush her teeth and that she's not supposed to eat
the
toothpaste. I thought it was out of her reach, but apparently I was
wrong.

So anyway, Dh reads the tube and says that it states we should call Poison
Control if it's been ingested. So I called them (Madison's name's already
on
file with them)

My kids' names are on file too. :-/ It seems like no matter how safe you
think you have everything, they'll find a way to get stuff.

I hope today is a much better day for you! :-)


--
Leslie
Alex and Jordan, 06 May 2000


and they said to make her drink 6-8 oz. of milk and to check on
her every 15-30 minutes for the next 6 hours. The woman said Madison
would
probably end up with a stomach ache and to call her back if she started
throwing up excessively. So far she's been fine (knock wood).

Does anyone have any suggestions for dealing with rude behavior in public?
If
we had been at home I would have told them to do to time-out in their
rooms
until they were ready to be nice, but I am obviously having trouble
dealing
with this type of behavior in public. We go out to eat for lunch once or
twice
per week, so eating in a restaurant is not a new experience for them and I
think it's important that they learn to behave in that setting. I don't
expect
them to sit there silently and use impeccable table manners, but I do
think
they should be able to act somewhat civilized. I always bring crayons or
something for them to do quietly while we are waiting for our food, but
this
isn't helping. Any suggestions? I feel like a parental failure today.


Thank You,
Andrea
twin girls-Madison & Jordan
3/22/00

Comments inline:

(Andrea) wrote
I'm hoping that someone here can give me some advice.
When it was time to go I told them to clean up because we had to go
visit their cousin. They both threw tantrums. They were screaming and
crying and wouldn't clean up. We finally got the playroom cleaned up
and went downstairs. I told them to say "thank you" to my friend for
letting them play in the playroom.
They refused to say it. I thanked her, and since I didn't want to cause
another scene or get into a power struggle I didn't push the issue.


The best suggestion I have heard about a situation similar to this is
that in this case, you look at your friend and say "I want to
apologize for Jordan and Madison. We are working on this behavior."
Of course, you say it in front of your kids. As pointed out in
another post, this is a power struggle they interested in, and when
you issue the above response, you neither ignore their behavior nor
engage in a p***ing contest with the kids. You retain your role as the
authority figure.


Afterwards we were having lunch with a friend of mine at Applebees. When we
got inside the girls saw they had balloons and they started yelling to the
hostess "I want a red balloon!" "I want a blue balloon!" I told them they
were being rude and that they needed to say "please" and ask nicely.


I don't know when you began emphasizing the need to say please, but we
started way before they could talk. In fact, my daughter's first
sentence was "up, please" (she wanted to be picked up), at the ripe
old age of 11 months!! Even now, at 23 months, they will start
whining when they want something, and I look at them and say "Is that
how you ask for the balloon? How do you ask for the balloon?" And they
invariably get a smile on their face and say "please." and do the
sign-language sign for "please." (We started them on sign language
early on because it can be learned earlier than speech, and in fact,
our boy still doesn't speak as well at 23 months as his sister did at
11 months, so the 3 or 4 signs he knows have come in very handy.

I also agree with another poster who said you maybe should have
canceled lunch at Applebees. In extreme cases where ours have acted
out like this, we have actually placed him or her in the crib for a
few minutes, not as a punishment, but to calm down. It always seems to
work.

Beyond that, I'd like to reiterate what the other posters have said:
They are only 3 years old, and they are going to have bad days. Sounds
like they had a bad day. You are not a bad parent.

They are *3*. You could be the perfect parent and still have 3 year olds
that
act up from time to time. It sounds like this day is an exception to the
rule.
IMO you are doing just fine.

Thanks Lori. That makes me feel much better.

Just curious -- but do you tell them to say thank you and hello or are you
asking them to? Perhaps if it is phrased as a question they'd be more
receptive? Or would asking invite the 'no' more readily?

I tell them. I also give them little talks in the car sometimes when we are
going somewhere where I know there will be a lot of people we know, such as a
birthday party. I'll try to prepare them by telling them there will be a lot
of people there and that they should say "hello" to people and respond when
they are spoken to. They seem to do better when I do that, but I just didn't
think about doing it yesterday.

I have almost the opposite problem where my girls say 'hi' to people they
have
no need/reason to speak to (we pass someone in Target, for example). I want
them to be polite but I don't want them to be bugging people who are trying
to
shop.

I have the same prob. too sometimes, go figure. Sometimes Jordan will be
yelling hello to strangers at the grocery store, but if I tell her to say hello
to someone she knows she clams up......shaking head.

Hope tomorrow is a better day!

Thank you! We did, thank goodness. They had a playdate with a friend at
McDonnalds today and I warned them that we would leave immediately if they were
rude or didn't listen. They had great manners and listened so well that I had
to check to make sure they were really my children. But when it was time to
leave the play area they each had a small meltdown (which I expected). I told
them to pull it together because I had to pick up some things at Wal Mart (35
minutes from my house so I wasn't going to make another trip). They pulled it
together, and after I stated my expectations of them they were great the whole
time we were in there. That was a big relief. I told them I wasn't going to
tolerate having a repeat of yesterday, and I think they could see that I meant
business.

Thanks Again Lori.

Andrea
twin girls-Madison & Jordan
3 yrs. old

The best suggestion I have heard about a situation similar to this is
that in this case, you look at your friend and say "I want to
apologize for Jordan and Madison. We are working on this behavior."
Of course, you say it in front of your kids. As pointed out in
another post, this is a power struggle they interested in, and when
you issue the above response, you neither ignore their behavior nor
engage in a p***ing contest with the kids. You retain your role as the
authority figure.

What an excellent suggestion! I need to write that down. I will *definately*
use that in the future.


Afterwards we were having lunch with a friend of mine at Applebees. When
we
got inside the girls saw they had balloons and they started yelling to the
hostess "I want a red balloon!" "I want a blue balloon!" I told them they
were being rude and that they needed to say "please" and ask nicely.


I don't know when you began emphasizing the need to say please, but we
started way before they could talk.

We have *always* emphasized please, thank you, etc. We did it before they
could talk also. That's why I was so completely shocked and appalled, because
they know they're supposed to say please when they ask for something. They
also don't normally yell at people like that, unless they're yelling at each
other. When they do that at home I tell them to either stop, or go to their
room for time-out.

Beyond that, I'd like to reiterate what the other posters have said:
They are only 3 years old, and they are going to have bad days. Sounds
like they had a bad day. You are not a bad parent.


Thanks for all the suggestions and for the pep talk.

Andrea
twin girls-Madison & Jordan
3 yrs. old

Andrea ) wrote:

We have *always* emphasized please, thank you, etc. We did it before they
could talk also. That's why I was so completely shocked and appalled,
because
they know they're supposed to say please when they ask for something.

They were doing it automatically before. Now they've found out they have a
choice, and they're exercising it to see what happens. It really is part of a
growth cycle, even though it *looks* like going backwards, because they'll come
back and do the manners thing more consciously now.

--Helen

Oh, (((Andrea))). I'm so sorry you have added all this additional "Parent
Guilt" on your shoulders. You are *not* a bad Mommy! Say it out loud!

Keep in mind that my girls are just over two so it's not like I have a wealth
of experience But, I believe this is expected. You said yourself that they
typically say, "please" and "thank you". (I insist on this as well.) From
what I gathered, I assume this is just simply a bad day or phase. It's bound
to happen as they learn to assert their independence or test their boundaries.


I haven't read all your replies, so maybe you've gotten all the advice you
need/want. At 2yo, there may be a whole different set of rules compared to
3yo. I apparently wouldn't know With that said, I agree that I wouldn't
have pushed the "say, hi" thing either. (I would have been very disappointed
like you, though, so I understand.) It's just not a battle that would have
been worth it after all stress you just dealt with to get out the door.

As far as the dinner goes, I would have just apologized to my friend and
explained we are working on our manners and behavior and need to leave so they
will understand it's not acceptable. I take the girls out to dinner by myself
all the time and I have had to leave rarely - but it seems to stick with them.
When I'm with Rich, one of us takes them outside and works it out. If it's
just a really bad day, we leave.

Hang in there. I really "felt" for you as I think we can all understand the
frustration and worry. The simple fact that you care means to me that you are
a good mom! I also don't think your kids are "bad" kids. They are good kids
who had a bad day...they're just simply normal. Stay on top of it and make
sure they know it's not acceptable and there are boundaries. Those boundaries,
IMO, show them you love them

Sorry so long, but I couldn't get a hug over the screen and it sounds like you
could use it

Missy
Missy in Indiana http://hometown.aol.com/mhrust/overviewforng.html
Morgan Olivia & Julia Lucille 4/28/01 (YAY!)

I have a routine with my daughter. I tell her what should she should do or
stop doing 3 times.
The first time as it occurs to me. I try to give her an explanation or any
other facts that are pertinent to the request. The second time I make sure I
have her attention and I speak clearly. The third time, if she still
refuses, I swing into action. I take away any item in question or I remove
her from the scene, quickly and without fanfare. I have paid for meals in
restaurants and left without eating them. I have left family dinners. She
has been picked up and brought home from friends' houses. My objective in
removing her is twofold - 1 - it shows her that I'm not kidding and no
matter how much I am enjoying myself, her behaviour makes it impossible to
continue and we leave. I won't be held hostage to the fact that other people
are watching. Once I decide to leave, no amount of backtracking on her part
affects the decision. We go home and she spends time in her room. The second
point is just as important. 2 - I will not subject my friends or even
strangers to a badly behaved child. It is not pleasant to be around a kid
who is saucy, or backtalking or screaming. I don't feel it's fair to make
others put up with it while I argue and negotiate with my child. This
approach means I miss some stuff I would like to do/see, and my daughter
misses stuff I would like her to do/see. I figure this is part and parcel of
being a parent. No one said it would be all fun. I've been doing this since
she was about 2 or 3. Now she is 12. We very seldom have this problem, but
when we do, I can't physically remove her from the scene. So, if she argues
and won't agree to leave with me, I leave without her ( only if we're
somewhere safe for her). She gets the message that I don't want to be seen
with her while she's behaving this way. It's not acceptable.
Most of the time I am proud of her behaviour and manners and am happy to
take her places and be seen with her. I always comment on it so she has
positive re-enforcement. She's a pleasure to spend time with.
Works for us.

Nancy (lurker with just a singleton)


"Andrea" wrote in message
...
Judging from my children's behavior today, I feel like I must be in dire
need
of some serious parenting help. I don't know what to do. I'm hoping that
someone here can give me some advice.

I took Jordan & Madison with me to a Kelly's Kids show at a friend's house
so I
could make sure I ordered the right size dresses for them. My friend took
them
up to her daughter's playroom so they could play while I looked around.
When
it was time to go I told them to clean up because we had to go visit their
cousin. They both threw tantrums. They were screaming and crying and
wouldn't
clean up. We finally got the playroom cleaned up and went downstairs. I
told
them to say "thank you" to my friend for letting them play in the
playroom.
They refused to say it. I thanked her, and since I didn't want to cause
another scene or get into a power struggle I didn't push the issue. When
we
were walking out I saw another friend of mine, whom Jordan & Madison also
know.
She said hello to them and I told them to reply by telling her hi. They
pouted and refused to say it and Madison even told me "NO!" By this time
I was
completely mortified. Of course there were about 5 other people there
that I
also know, who were witnessing my kids' belligerence.

When we got to the car I told the girls that I was disappointed in their
behavior and that they should have thanked Miss Jamie for letting them
play and
told Miss Cindy hello when she spoke to them. In the past I have told
them
over and over that they need to say "hi" when someone says hello to them.
etc.,
etc.

Afterwards we were having lunch with a friend of mine at Applebees. When
we
got inside the girls saw they had balloons and they started yelling to
the
hostess "I want a red balloon!" "I want a blue balloon!" I told them
they
were being rude and that they needed to say "please" and ask nicely. Once
again I was completely mortified. I realize they're still young, but I
don't
speak to people this way and they know they're not supposed to speak to
people
like that either! I was completely shocked. I thought about telling them
they
weren't going to get a balloon, but after I corrected them they did ask
the
hostess again politely.

So we're sitting down in the restaurant and the girls are being sooooo
loud.
My friend and I keep telling them to use their inside voices, but they
continued to be loud. Then they started fighting over the crayons and
trying
to kick each other under the table! Jordan started grabbing all the
crayons so
that Madison couldn't have any and at that point I took her to the
restroom and
had a chat with her. She started screaming and crying as soon as I picked
her
up from the table and we had to stay in the restroom for about 15 minutes
until
she settled down and was ready to listen. I would have taken them & left
the
restauraunt if my friend had not been with us. After that their behavior
improved somewhat.

Then tonight after I had bathed them and washed their hair Madison went
into
the bathroom and brushed her teeth by herself, got water and toothpaste
everywhere, and ate I don't know how much toothpaste (according to her it
was
"a lot"). There was blue toothpaste all in her hair, on her pajamas, the
mirror, sink, and counters. We've told her over and over that she needs a
grown-up to help her brush her teeth and that she's not supposed to eat
the
toothpaste. I thought it was out of her reach, but apparently I was
wrong.

So anyway, Dh reads the tube and says that it states we should call Poison
Control if it's been ingested. So I called them (Madison's name's already
on
file with them) and they said to make her drink 6-8 oz. of milk and to
check on
her every 15-30 minutes for the next 6 hours. The woman said Madison
would
probably end up with a stomach ache and to call her back if she started
throwing up excessively. So far she's been fine (knock wood).

Does anyone have any suggestions for dealing with rude behavior in public?
If
we had been at home I would have told them to do to time-out in their
rooms
until they were ready to be nice, but I am obviously having trouble
dealing
with this type of behavior in public. We go out to eat for lunch once or
twice
per week, so eating in a restaurant is not a new experience for them and I
think it's important that they learn to behave in that setting. I don't
expect
them to sit there silently and use impeccable table manners, but I do
think
they should be able to act somewhat civilized. I always bring crayons or
something for them to do quietly while we are waiting for our food, but
this
isn't helping. Any suggestions? I feel like a parental failure today.


Thank You,
Andrea
twin girls-Madison & Jordan
3/22/00

Aren't you the one with the MIL who takes care of the spontaneous haircuts
for
you?

ROTFL!! You're right, I should be more worried about my MIL than my
children, shouldn't I?!! LOL!

Andrea
twin girls-Madison & Jordan
3 yrs. old